[ScepticMatt]

not quite :P

Anyway, I don't think 1.2 TFLOP/s is impressive even with "special sauce"
Also I wonder if the'll switch to HDMI 1.4b or 2.0 before this goes into production.

[charsace]

Basically, if the ESram is the frame buffer, it needs to store all the pixels in the frame. At 1080p 4xmsaa and 4 bit coulour depth, the rough amount of memory taken up would require 2x4x4=32 mb, which is just about the size of the esram. Can't do much more than that. Tiling would burn up bandwidth to the main memory, so it is best to avoid it if possible.

I doubt games will do 4xmsaa. They will do 2x and post processing.

[Corky]

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

Yeah, I too was expecting a 100x difference so this is actually much closer to the wii u in that regard.

[ghst]

Based on what they wrote, it appears that the GPU can access data from esram and main ram at the same time. So in that case, the bandwidths can be combined. This is still limited to how fast something different can be put into esram to make the bandwidth more useful.

that sounds like a nice idea that is far more complicated and compromised in practice, kinda like the original promise of the 360's eDRAM.

it's very hard to believe this thing will be able to match the PS4, but i guess we'll see. it'll certainly be cheaper to manufacture.

[mrklaw]

I don't see how you'd get parallel bandwidth. Even if the move chip can move data while the GPU is pulling data in, aren't most steps depending on the outcome of a previous step?

[herod]

yeah, Kinect / cable TV integration has been a no brainer since they showed Kinect voice commands off originally. It's not a feature I want so I hope they don't bundle that junk into the price.

[Kimawolf]

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

Eh still its a quite a bit more powerful than the Wii U. It's just the rumors, like the Wii U ones with people going crazy talking about 3 Tflops, 2.2 tflops etc were wrong if this is correct. It's why it's best to not read those threads because they hype you up into thinking something it isn't going to be. Either way this at least seems to mean you won't have to break the bank to get the system, unless they mark up for Kinect 2.0.

[Backfoggen]

HDMI In is blowing my mind... I'm getting flashbacks...

Kutaragi stealth working for Microsoft confirmed.

[big_erk]

This isn't a PC so the number doesn't mean the same thing. Its obvious that MS isn't building for raw power, but efficiency. They are focusing on general computing and parallel programming.

Why does that sound familiar?

[Nirolak]

Interesting 800 mghz gpu? what was wii-u's like 500?

GPU clock rate doesn't change much since GPU evolution is primarily built around transistor count and architectural change.

[nib95]

that sounds like a nice idea that is far more complicated and compromised in practice. kinda like the original promise of the 360's eDRAM. it's very hard to believe this thing will be able to match the PS4, but i guess we'll see. it'll certainly be cheaper to manufacture.

This. It should be a good degree cheaper. DDR3 is peanuts, whilst GDDR5 is expensive. Having said that, if Microsoft bundle in Kinect 2.0 or anything like that, things could get pricey again for the consumer.

[THE:MILKMAN]

Is the 16 threads something that was expected for Jaguar cores?

Edit: Sorry I mean the two instructions per clock.

[LabouredSubterfuge]

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Unless you were expecting a high end gaming PC equivalent, in which case your expectations were horribly over inflated in the first place.

[derFeef]

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

Haha.

[Auto_aim1]

6x BD drive is fantastic.

[pixlexic]

It's massively batter than the Wii U specs...

Massively battered? lol

But seriously the architecture is similar. The gpu is only 250 mghz faster. I guess i was expecting them to keep the same architecture of lest gen which would have totally screwed nintendo.

[Globox_82]

so in short now Durante > Orbis?

[JonathanPower]

Doesn't 32mb esram mean it is limited to 1080p and 4xmsaa and not much else?

Yes, it will be enough for 1080p but only if you are rendering one buffer at a time, and thus deferred rendering it's not going to work well.

[fluffydelusions]

So Wii U #alreadydead

[1st Course]

- at peak performance, the GPU can effectively issue 1.2 trillion floating-point operations per second

Considering that the 360 had a better GPU than any PC GPU at launch this is incredibly disappointing, even the GTX 560 Ti ($150) perform better than that.

[shinobi602]

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

That's cute.

[Ashes1396]

Google suggests Data transfer engine when you search for data move engine.
http://epubl.ltu.se/1402-1617/2004/2...X-04237-SE.pdf

Who knows...

[Can Crusher]

He was probably talking about AMD flops vs Nvidia flops. Which is a difference in how they are counted. These parts are rumored to both be AMD so it would be a valid comparison.

No he wasn't probably talking about that at all. Why would he be talking about Nvidia?

Here and before you question it.

[Biggzy]

Is the 16 threads something that was expected for Jaguar cores?

Long been rumored.

[charsace]

Yeah, I too was expecting a 100x difference so this is actually much closer to the wii u in that regard.

The wii isn't close to this at all. This is a machine built for general computing the WiiU isn't. Games built for this will be heavily threaded.

[Nobility]

Good to see blu-ray included but I am very interested in the video codec support.

[jet1911]

Doesn't make sense, due to there being a Kinect in port, which one would assume someone could plug and unplug a Kinect.

Well it'S like the sensor bar with the Wii. Can't really use the console without it.

[jaypah]

Anyway, I don't think 1.2 TFLOP/s is impressive even with "special sauce" Also I wonder if the'll switch to HDMI 1.4b or 2.0 before this goes into production.

so leaving the 2 off of "192" was the joke? You tell some shitty jokes McBain :P

jokes aside, I hope they consider a higher standard for the HDMI. Who knows what going to take shape in the next 8 years, technologically speaking.

[alexandros]

The GPU is massively disappointing.

[gamergirly]

Humm....

[DieH@rd]

6x BD drive is fantastic.

It will probably be X8 throttled down to X6.

I general, X720 looks very much like X360. Shame they've used only 1.2TF part. On paper, I still think that PS4 looks better.

Anyhow, now we know. Multiplatform games will be easily ported between these systems, 1st party devs from both tribes will create great games, and nextgen will trully bring big jump over 7th gen.

[shagg_187]

so in short now Durante > Orbis?

Not quite.

[LabouredSubterfuge]

I doubt games will do 4xmsaa. They will do 2x and post processing.

The whole 1080p 4xMSAA is so horribly misaligned it's beyond ridiculous (as far as I can tell). The requirements to do MSAA in deferred renderer games is significantly more taxing.

[quest]

Nothing new here and move engine sounds like the joke at B3D about the blitter unit. Nothing on the specific secret sause or what mods to the jaguar there is. If this is really it the PS4 will be much more powerful. With the extra compute unit to do the heavy FPU lifting to assist its 8 jaguar processors. Then only 32meg of esram is to small should be 64meg. Looks like they had to cut a lot to include kinect in every box and make it a SOC. It will be interesting if there is a backlash of core gamer if these specs are true. Got a gimped system to include the kinect.

[zomgbbqftw]

This. It should be a good degree cheaper. DDR3 is peanuts, whilst GDDR5 is expensive. Having said that, if Microsoft bundle in Kinect 2.0 or anything like that, things could get pricey again for the consumer.

ESRAM is expensive, the total cost for both Orbis and Durango will be around the same.

[ironcreed]

All of these leaks, just give us an official sneak peek already.

[mrklaw]

The HDMI-in, to me, suggests a pass-through for cable. I'm not sure exactly how it'd work, but I imagine it'll use HDMI-CEC so you can control your cable box from your console. MS tried to actually provide the TV themselves with the IPTV thing, and that failed to get off the ground because the networks like the current arrangement more than what MS was offering, so the next best thing is to run the cable TV through the Xbox. I don't know how much info or interactivity the 360 can glean from the cable box over HDMI, however, so it may be a bit of a hodge podge of interactivity, and for that reason I don't know how compelling this function will be: you'll still need the cable box, but it may be a neat feature for people who already have a reason to own the next Xbox.

not sure any cable boxes allow to change channels using HDMI-CEC, you could turn it on though.

Best experience would be from DVRs that allow network control - eg latest tivo boxes. So you could use the xbox to give you a combined EPG (DVR recordings/live TV schedule/VOD etc) and if you select a live TV channel the Xbox would turn over the DVR via LAN.

If your DVR doesn't support that, you'd end up back with IR blasters or manually changing channel, and the integration becomes much less compelling IMO.

[shinra-bansho]

so in short now Durante > Orbis?

I love how this has become a thing, lol.

[Derrick01]

Considering that the 360 had a better GPU than any PC GPU at launch this is incredibly disappointing, even the GTX 560 Ti ($150) perform better than that.

We were not going to get another $500-$600 repeat after how this generation went, and how the world economy went. So this is the end result.

[Chuck Norris]

so in short now Durante > Orbis?

I'd say Orbis is better than Django based on this

[charsace]

Yes, it will be enough for 1080p but only if you are rendering one buffer at a time, and thus deferred rendering it's not going to work well.

We haven't seen a game yet so its too soon to say deferred rendering won't work. MS are the creators of the directx api. I don't think this system would not have the ability to do deferred rendering when a lot of their in house engines are built around it.

[Gemüsepizza]

I still don't see the "secret sauce" which is supposed to increase processing power for games. Maybe there is a blitter, but that would probably only improve memory handling, not processing power.

I don't see how you'd get parallel bandwidth. Even if the move chip can move data while the GPU is pulling data in, aren't most steps depending on the outcome of a previous step?

This method does seem to have a couple of disadvantages, seems like they made a trade-off for a bigger RAM amount.

[big_erk]

This. It should be a good degree cheaper. DDR3 is peanuts, whilst GDDR5 is expensive. Having said that, if Microsoft bundle in Kinect 2.0 or anything like that, things could get pricey again for the consumer.

They probably want to try to offset the cost of kinect somehow. This seems like a nice upgrade without breaking the bank. Hopefully Sony has learned that sometimes a little less is more, they can't afford to release another $600 beast of a machine.

[Osorio93]

prototype images

[i-Lo]

Not quite.

True.

Durante>Durango>Django>Orbis

[Globox_82]

I love how this has become a thing, lol.

I did it on purpose lol

[iamshadowlark]

This isn't a PC so the number doesn't mean the same thing. Its obvious that MS isn't building for raw power, but efficiency. They are focusing on general computing and parallel programming.

I know its not PC, if anything the number is more meaningless on PC because of overhead. As a theoretical peak it is quite disappointing. Both companies are seemingly focusing on GP and parallel computing, the difference here is that it looks like MS is sacrificing power for Kinect and OS functionality.

Sony with a rumored 1.8 TFLOP GPU plus a Compute unit could easily be twice this, with better overall bandwidth going by rumors. Alot more efficient.

[big_erk]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Unless you were expecting a high end gaming PC equivalent, in which case your expectations were horribly over inflated in the first place.

This is GAF, our expectations are always horribly over inflated.

[MikeE21286]

This looks pretty similar to the earlier leaks, right?

identical

[mrklaw]

Nothing new here and move engine sounds like the joke at B3D about the blitter unit. Nothing on the specific secret sause or what mods to the jaguar there is. If this is really it the PS4 will be much more powerful. With the extra compute unit to do the heavy FPU lifting to assist its 8 jaguar processors. Then only 32meg of esram is to small should be 64meg. Looks like they had to cut a lot to include kinect in every box and make it a SOC. It will be interesting if there is a backlash of core gamer if these specs are true. Got a gimped system to include the kinect.

is PS4 rumoured to be 18CUs?