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ScepticMatt
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by jaypah

not quite :P



Anyway, I don't think 1.2 TFLOP/s is impressive even with "special sauce"
Also I wonder if the'll switch to HDMI 1.4b or 2.0 before this goes into production.
charsace
Accidental Member
(01-21-2013, 03:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by bobbytkc

Basically, if the ESram is the frame buffer, it needs to store all the pixels in the frame. At 1080p 4xmsaa and 4 bit coulour depth, the rough amount of memory taken up would require 2x4x4=32 mb, which is just about the size of the esram. Can't do much more than that. Tiling would burn up bandwidth to the main memory, so it is best to avoid it if possible.

I doubt games will do 4xmsaa. They will do 2x and post processing.
Corky
Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
(01-21-2013, 03:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by pixlexic

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

Yeah, I too was expecting a 100x difference so this is actually much closer to the wii u in that regard.
ghst
thanks for the laugh
(01-21-2013, 03:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by JaggedSac

Based on what they wrote, it appears that the GPU can access data from esram and main ram at the same time. So in that case, the bandwidths can be combined. This is still limited to how fast something different can be put into esram to make the bandwidth more useful.

that sounds like a nice idea that is far more complicated and compromised in practice, kinda like the original promise of the 360's eDRAM.

it's very hard to believe this thing will be able to match the PS4, but i guess we'll see. it'll certainly be cheaper to manufacture.
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(01-21-2013, 03:07 PM)
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I don't see how you'd get parallel bandwidth. Even if the move chip can move data while the GPU is pulling data in, aren't most steps depending on the outcome of a previous step?
herod
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:07 PM)
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yeah, Kinect / cable TV integration has been a no brainer since they showed Kinect voice commands off originally. It's not a feature I want so I hope they don't bundle that junk into the price.
Kimawolf
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:07 PM)

Originally Posted by pixlexic

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

Eh still its a quite a bit more powerful than the Wii U. It's just the rumors, like the Wii U ones with people going crazy talking about 3 Tflops, 2.2 tflops etc were wrong if this is correct. It's why it's best to not read those threads because they hype you up into thinking something it isn't going to be. Either way this at least seems to mean you won't have to break the bank to get the system, unless they mark up for Kinect 2.0.
Backfoggen
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by CrunchinJelly

HDMI In is blowing my mind...

I'm getting flashbacks...

Kutaragi stealth working for Microsoft confirmed.
big_erk
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by charsace

This isn't a PC so the number doesn't mean the same thing. Its obvious that MS isn't building for raw power, but efficiency. They are focusing on general computing and parallel programming.

Why does that sound familiar?
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(01-21-2013, 03:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by pixlexic

Interesting 800 mghz gpu? what was wii-u's like 500?

GPU clock rate doesn't change much since GPU evolution is primarily built around transistor count and architectural change.
nib95
Banned
(01-21-2013, 03:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by ghst

that sounds like a nice idea that is far more complicated and compromised in practice. kinda like the original promise of the 360's eDRAM.

it's very hard to believe this thing will be able to match the PS4, but i guess we'll see. it'll certainly be cheaper to manufacture.

This. It should be a good degree cheaper. DDR3 is peanuts, whilst GDDR5 is expensive. Having said that, if Microsoft bundle in Kinect 2.0 or anything like that, things could get pricey again for the consumer.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:08 PM)
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Is the 16 threads something that was expected for Jaguar cores?

Edit: Sorry I mean the two instructions per clock.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by pixlexic

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Unless you were expecting a high end gaming PC equivalent, in which case your expectations were horribly over inflated in the first place.
derFeef
lil' bit tasty
(01-21-2013, 03:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by pixlexic

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

Haha.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
(01-21-2013, 03:08 PM)
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6x BD drive is fantastic.
pixlexic
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by GarthVaderUK

It's massively batter than the Wii U specs...

Massively battered? lol

But seriously the architecture is similar. The gpu is only 250 mghz faster. I guess i was expecting them to keep the same architecture of lest gen which would have totally screwed nintendo.
Globox_82
Banned
(01-21-2013, 03:09 PM)
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so in short now Durante > Orbis?
JonathanPower
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by bobbytkc

Doesn't 32mb esram mean it is limited to 1080p and 4xmsaa and not much else?

Yes, it will be enough for 1080p but only if you are rendering one buffer at a time, and thus deferred rendering it's not going to work well.
fluffydelusions
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:09 PM)
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So Wii U #alreadydead
1st Course
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:09 PM)

- at peak performance, the GPU can effectively issue 1.2 trillion floating-point operations per second

Considering that the 360 had a better GPU than any PC GPU at launch this is incredibly disappointing, even the GTX 560 Ti ($150) perform better than that.
shinobi602
Banned
(01-21-2013, 03:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by pixlexic

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

That's cute.
Ashes
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:09 PM)
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Google suggests Data transfer engine when you search for data move engine.
http://epubl.ltu.se/1402-1617/2004/2...X-04237-SE.pdf

Who knows...
Can Crusher
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by iamshadowlark

He was probably talking about AMD flops vs Nvidia flops. Which is a difference in how they are counted. These parts are rumored to both be AMD so it would be a valid comparison.

No he wasn't probably talking about that at all. Why would he be talking about Nvidia?

Here and before you question it.
Biggzy
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by THE:MILKMAN

Is the 16 threads something that was expected for Jaguar cores?

Long been rumored.
charsace
Accidental Member
(01-21-2013, 03:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Corky

Yeah, I too was expecting a 100x difference so this is actually much closer to the wii u in that regard.

The wii isn't close to this at all. This is a machine built for general computing the WiiU isn't. Games built for this will be heavily threaded.
Nobility
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:10 PM)
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Good to see blu-ray included but I am very interested in the video codec support.
jet1911
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by JaggedSac

Doesn't make sense, due to there being a Kinect in port, which one would assume someone could plug and unplug a Kinect.

Well it'S like the sensor bar with the Wii. Can't really use the console without it.
jaypah
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by ScepticMatt



Anyway, I don't think 1.2 TFLOP/s is impressive even with "special sauce"
Also I wonder if the'll switch to HDMI 1.4b or 2.0 before this goes into production.

so leaving the 2 off of "192" was the joke? You tell some shitty jokes McBain :P

jokes aside, I hope they consider a higher standard for the HDMI. Who knows what going to take shape in the next 8 years, technologically speaking.
alexandros
Banned
(01-21-2013, 03:10 PM)
The GPU is massively disappointing.
gamergirly
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:11 PM)
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Humm....
DieH@rd
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Meisadragon

6x BD drive is fantastic.

It will probably be X8 throttled down to X6.

I general, X720 looks very much like X360. Shame they've used only 1.2TF part. On paper, I still think that PS4 looks better.

Anyhow, now we know. Multiplatform games will be easily ported between these systems, 1st party devs from both tribes will create great games, and nextgen will trully bring big jump over 7th gen.
Last edited by DieH@rd; 01-21-2013 at 03:13 PM.
shagg_187
lapdance transform pants
(01-21-2013, 03:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Globox_82

so in short now Durante > Orbis?

Not quite.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by charsace

I doubt games will do 4xmsaa. They will do 2x and post processing.

The whole 1080p 4xMSAA is so horribly misaligned it's beyond ridiculous (as far as I can tell). The requirements to do MSAA in deferred renderer games is significantly more taxing.
quest
Banned from OT
(01-21-2013, 03:11 PM)
Nothing new here and move engine sounds like the joke at B3D about the blitter unit. Nothing on the specific secret sause or what mods to the jaguar there is. If this is really it the PS4 will be much more powerful. With the extra compute unit to do the heavy FPU lifting to assist its 8 jaguar processors. Then only 32meg of esram is to small should be 64meg. Looks like they had to cut a lot to include kinect in every box and make it a SOC. It will be interesting if there is a backlash of core gamer if these specs are true. Got a gimped system to include the kinect.
zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(01-21-2013, 03:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by nib95

This. It should be a good degree cheaper. DDR3 is peanuts, whilst GDDR5 is expensive. Having said that, if Microsoft bundle in Kinect 2.0 or anything like that, things could get pricey again for the consumer.

ESRAM is expensive, the total cost for both Orbis and Durango will be around the same.
ironcreed
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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All of these leaks, just give us an official sneak peek already.
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omikaru

The HDMI-in, to me, suggests a pass-through for cable. I'm not sure exactly how it'd work, but I imagine it'll use HDMI-CEC so you can control your cable box from your console. MS tried to actually provide the TV themselves with the IPTV thing, and that failed to get off the ground because the networks like the current arrangement more than what MS was offering, so the next best thing is to run the cable TV through the Xbox.

I don't know how much info or interactivity the 360 can glean from the cable box over HDMI, however, so it may be a bit of a hodge podge of interactivity, and for that reason I don't know how compelling this function will be: you'll still need the cable box, but it may be a neat feature for people who already have a reason to own the next Xbox.

not sure any cable boxes allow to change channels using HDMI-CEC, you could turn it on though.

Best experience would be from DVRs that allow network control - eg latest tivo boxes. So you could use the xbox to give you a combined EPG (DVR recordings/live TV schedule/VOD etc) and if you select a live TV channel the Xbox would turn over the DVR via LAN.

If your DVR doesn't support that, you'd end up back with IR blasters or manually changing channel, and the integration becomes much less compelling IMO.
shinra-bansho
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Globox_82

so in short now Durante > Orbis?

I love how this has become a thing, lol.
Derrick01
Banned
(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by 1st Course

Considering that the 360 had a better GPU than any PC GPU at launch this is incredibly disappointing, even the GTX 560 Ti ($150) perform better than that.

We were not going to get another $500-$600 repeat after how this generation went, and how the world economy went. So this is the end result.
Chuck Norris
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(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Globox_82

so in short now Durante > Orbis?

I'd say Orbis is better than Django based on this
charsace
Accidental Member
(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by JonathanPower

Yes, it will be enough for 1080p but only if you are rendering one buffer at a time, and thus deferred rendering it's not going to work well.

We haven't seen a game yet so its too soon to say deferred rendering won't work. MS are the creators of the directx api. I don't think this system would not have the ability to do deferred rendering when a lot of their in house engines are built around it.
Gemüsepizza
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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I still don't see the "secret sauce" which is supposed to increase processing power for games. Maybe there is a blitter, but that would probably only improve memory handling, not processing power.

Originally Posted by mrklaw

I don't see how you'd get parallel bandwidth. Even if the move chip can move data while the GPU is pulling data in, aren't most steps depending on the outcome of a previous step?

This method does seem to have a couple of disadvantages, seems like they made a trade-off for a bigger RAM amount.
big_erk
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by nib95

This. It should be a good degree cheaper. DDR3 is peanuts, whilst GDDR5 is expensive. Having said that, if Microsoft bundle in Kinect 2.0 or anything like that, things could get pricey again for the consumer.

They probably want to try to offset the cost of kinect somehow. This seems like a nice upgrade without breaking the bank. Hopefully Sony has learned that sometimes a little less is more, they can't afford to release another $600 beast of a machine.
Osorio93
Junior Member
(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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prototype images


i-Lo
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

Not quite.

True.

Durante>Durango>Django>Orbis
Globox_82
Banned
(01-21-2013, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by shinra-bansho

I love how this has become a thing, lol.

I did it on purpose lol
iamshadowlark
Banned
(01-21-2013, 03:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by charsace

This isn't a PC so the number doesn't mean the same thing. Its obvious that MS isn't building for raw power, but efficiency. They are focusing on general computing and parallel programming.

I know its not PC, if anything the number is more meaningless on PC because of overhead. As a theoretical peak it is quite disappointing. Both companies are seemingly focusing on GP and parallel computing, the difference here is that it looks like MS is sacrificing power for Kinect and OS functionality.

Sony with a rumored 1.8 TFLOP GPU plus a Compute unit could easily be twice this, with better overall bandwidth going by rumors. Alot more efficient.
big_erk
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by LabouredSubterfuge

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Unless you were expecting a high end gaming PC equivalent, in which case your expectations were horribly over inflated in the first place.

This is GAF, our expectations are always horribly over inflated.
MikeE21286
Member
(01-21-2013, 03:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Y2Kev

This looks pretty similar to the earlier leaks, right?

identical
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(01-21-2013, 03:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by quest

Nothing new here and move engine sounds like the joke at B3D about the blitter unit. Nothing on the specific secret sause or what mods to the jaguar there is. If this is really it the PS4 will be much more powerful. With the extra compute unit to do the heavy FPU lifting to assist its 8 jaguar processors. Then only 32meg of esram is to small should be 64meg. Looks like they had to cut a lot to include kinect in every box and make it a SOC. It will be interesting if there is a backlash of core gamer if these specs are true. Got a gimped system to include the kinect.

is PS4 rumoured to be 18CUs?

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