[quest]

So how will this effect next gen consoles, and can the company be bought out by another on the cheap to continue with those console contracts?

Since all the work is done it would have no affect on next generation. Depending if Sony and Ms paid all upfront or are paying a small royalty per chip it could be a windfall for them if they don't have to pay that small royalty per chip if AMD goes under.

[Geoff9920]

Yep, definitely one of the reasons. All their shitty CF GPUs, terrible drivers and poor game support turned me to Nvidia.

Same exact experience here.

That said, I absolutely do not want a PC market where Intel / Nvidia are my only options. Step up your game AMD!

[Mr.Awesome]

AMD stock way up after these earnings beat expectations.

[SneakyStephan]

That simply isn't the case anymore, stop making up BS.

I've owned nothing but amd cards since 2002, I think nvidia are massive dicks and have no love for them, but AMD drivers have been consistently shit since 2010.
I'm not even going to begin listing the games that had massive problems (performance, shadows, stutter or all three) that I personally experienced on my pc with two different cards. There are just too many.

And in many of the games that had problems there was never a fix or it took almost a year.

[x-Lundz-x]

Not sure how production in video cards work but you don't get paid until you deliver. They get a purchase order, part gets made, Sony/Microsoft test it and tweak it until they get what they like. They get paid for all the testing and tweaking but not for mass producing until the parts are finalized.

Yeah but you would they would be producing by now if the rumors of a 2013 release for the consoles are to be believed.

[Derrick01]

Yep, definitely one of the reasons. All their shitty CF GPUs, terrible drivers and poor game support turned me to Nvidia.

Same. I don't know anywhere near enough about PCs to be able to break them all down and analyze hard data, so I went off what I heard. And all I heard about AMD was horror stories and the perception was that you needed to be a more advanced PC user to be able to put up with them. That's the kind of perception that's going to scare people away as the PC industry gets more and more former console-only people thanks to Steam and F2P stuff.

And then of course the infamous fall 2011 happened when every game came out broken on AMD stuff. I knew I had made the right choice then. I have several friends who are AMD right now and they plan on bailing too due to the problems they have when we're trying to play games together.

[M.D]

What happens if Sony/Microsoft buys AMD and say "fuck it, were not giving you anything anymore" to the other side? They probably have contracts in place to prevent things like that from happening, but it would be hilarious if they didn't, and one of them decided that's the way to kill off the competition =p

[grimshawish]

Does this mean we get another exciting auction?
Sega will buy them.

Seriously though; consoles have to have protection, right?
How did AMD get so...bad...?

[JWong]

Anyone posted Google's report in OT or gaming?

[Mr.Awesome]

Anyone posted Google's report in OT or gaming?

Yeah, in OT. Apple goes today.

[MeBecomingI]

Ugh, those numbers make me sad and angry. They need to get things turned around now and start getting their shit together... 'cause if they fold it'll be a long day for the computer industry. I've been using AMD processors forever and to see them disappear would be terrible.

[Cornbread78]

Since all the work is done it would have no affect on next generation. Depending if Sony and Ms paid all upfront or are paying a small royalty per chip it could be a windfall for them if they don't have to pay that small royalty per chip if AMD goes under.

So earlier next gen price drops confirmed?


Sweet!

[Maxrunner]

their GPUs are solid. very solid. 7970 ghz edition > 680, BUT AMD GPUs have this stigma of getting bad drivers and having issues with games at launch that always need a hotfix. i personally never had any major issues with their drivers, but some people have them. I really think the whole bad drivers thing is extremely overblown from a personal perspective. the one thing i want from them to survive is their GPU division because they do good work and do give us great products.

yep my brother has the 7970 with that artic giant color and he overclocked it from 920mhz to 1200 something's and it still in the 50º temperature...without any stresses

[dragonelite]

Too be somewhat fair I want to say Intel's revenue was down about the same in percent terms (obviously overall Intel much healthier) It's somewhat a function that the PC market is declining because of tablets and whatnot.

What i thought it was because of windows 8...

[miladesn]

them going down or not isn't going to affect the consoles, AMD isn't going to disappear, in worst case, someone will buy them and their contracts will carry over to the new owner. though this new owner might be able to negotiate new terms and change the contract somewhat which might be not as good as before. but there is another issue..

This generation all console makers own the IP to the designs of the console and the custom chips they co developed with the parties involved like IBM and AMD. These new console are using x86 architecture if rumors are true, which is licensed to AMD, seems impossible for the platform holders to own the designs because it's someone else's design, and that someone else never is selling this IP. things might get complicated down the road, this generation platform holders needed to work with AMD/IBM/NV for redesign and other revisions not for production of the chips which they owned. if something happens to AMD it can be a pretty horrible licensing nightmare with other parties involved.

[BloodMoney]

I just wanted to point out that AMD's stock value has jumped %10 today.... Anyone with business sense would assume the quarterly loss information released today was better than expected.

Enough with the doom and gloom. If your a betting man/woman, i might say it's current stock value is a good entry point. I'd also say similar things about SNE... and the entire nuclear sector.

[Kazuma Kiryu]

oh well, intel/nvidia future it is. it was nice knowing you amd/ati.

[Meisadragon]

Nope, that's the worst possible outcome especially seeing as they are already cocky enough to launch a fucking $900 graphics card. They know AMD is going down. It shouldn't effect the pre-designed nextgen graphics hardware though.

Yeah, I remember how absurd their prices were before AMD launched the 4850 card 5 years ago. They immediately dropped the price of 9800GTX. I really want AMD to stay in the game.

[ghst]

zomb, what does it say to you about the possibility of spinning the graphics division off. as the only profitable wing of the company, do you see this as an achievement - (barely) rising above mismanagement/bloat - ? or does the meagre return on investment speak purely for their products being outclassed? would you invest?

[1-D_FTW]

What happens if Sony/Microsoft buys AMD and say "fuck it, were not giving you anything anymore" to the other side? They probably have contracts in place to prevent things like that from happening, but it would be hilarious if they didn't, and one of them decided that's the way to kill off the competition =p

Not the way the world works.

zomb, what does it say to you about the possibility of spinning the graphics division off. as the only profitable wing of the company, do you see this as an achievement - (barely) rising above mismanagement/bloat - ? or does the meagre return on investment speak purely for their product being outclassed? would you invest?

I thought it was reported they took a chainsaw to the ATI engineers with the last round of cuts. Hopefully it happens before they reduce it to a smoldering rubble.

[2San]

Fuck, I hope AMD survives. We can't have intel and nvidia with even more power. :|

[djplaeskool]

AMD stock way up after these earnings beat expectations.

Seriously.
Stock is up 10% on the fact that they didn't hemorrhage as much as expected.
The market is so wacky...

[ghst]

Seriously. Stock is up 10% on the fact that they didn't hemorrhage as much as expected. The market is so wacky...

does it ever happen that the stock market smells blood and in the fervour to short a company their stock gets driven up?

[KillerMan91]

It's pretty weird how different experinces you can have with ATI cards. Have owned Ati cards since 2008 (4850&5850) and never have had a single problem with hardware or software. Actually HD 4850 and HD 5850 absolutely destroyed Nvidia cards when it came to price/performance. Not to mention that Nvidia cards at the time needed nuclear plant to be run and were hot as hell. Still i remember that AMD made losses during those times and Nvidia profits... really hoping that AMD survives. They must have some problems also inside when even during times they had superior products they couldn't make money.

[Mr.Awesome]

does it ever happen that the stock market smells blood and in the fervour to short a company their stock gets driven up?

If your shorting something, you're driving it down.


Edit. May have misunderstood you. This is going up because the stock beat expectations. Ie. The stock is already priced in that AMD earns a penny a share. It comes out it stand two pennies a share, it goes up.

[1-D_FTW]

does it ever happen that the stock market smells blood and in the fervour to short a company their stock gets driven up?

They're probably all excited by the fact losses weren't as bad as expected. And about AMD's latest rhetoric about becoming a post-PC company. It honestly isn't to be taken as great news by PC gamers either way.

[Weenerz]

Enjoying my 7970 quite a bit, but I don't have any loyalty to AMD, so I will most likely jump on board the new Geforce Titan or the next GTX series.

[AuthenticM]

Was the ATI purchase the mistake that lead them in this dire situation ? What lead them here, exactly ?

[benny_a]

If your shorting something, you're driving it down.

If that was true, every time you short something you'd be making money. And that is not the case.

[Erasus]

If AMD goes under then god help us all.

This. Intel will sadly dominate....

Hope they can get back up with the next gen consoles. And the actually have good desktop CPUs now, the 8350 and below seems good compared to FX

[shagg_187]

Was the ATI purchase the mistake that lead them in this dire situation ? What lead them here, exactly ?

They didn't attack the mobile market as aggressively as Nvidia did. It's all about dat tegra now.

[Mr.Awesome]

If that was true, every time you short something you'd be making money. And that is not the case.

No because you eventually have to buy it back, which drives the price up.

[quest]

Fuck, I hope AMD survives. We can't have intel and nvidia with even more power. :|

I am not worried about intel. Thanks to chaning PC market it will keep prices under control on that side. On the GPU front having nvidia as the only game in town would be bad. If they hold on a while longer on the PC GPU side I think they will be good. All console ports will be made around modern AMD GPUs so might a lot less driver issue and they might get a bit more performance. That and with all console makers using lot of compute stuff it might speed up the adoption on the PC which AMD desperately needs to make up the gap in CPU performance. Imagine Kavari where the on board compute units do the physics and other things to level out the playing field with haswell in gaming. Also on the lower end the compute makes the Jaguar SOCs a much better solution than even against next generation Atoms. Compute and HSA could really turn the tide for AMD along with temash and kabini sucking up the high volume lower end desktops and laptops. I know at work we will be looking at the jaguar SOCs to replace many of the aging computers we have. Low power and heat are idea for what a lot of our PCs do especially in patient rooms where they are on 24/7 and don't require a ton of CPU.

[1-D_FTW]

Was the ATI purchase the mistake that lead them in this dire situation ? What lead them here, exactly ?

ATI is the only thing worthwhile about them. It's Intel's illegal activities during AMD's heyday (that prevented AMD from getting rightly fat) and then Intel nailing the C2 design and AMD developing their own Pentium 4 debacle that's doomed them.

And another issue is not branching out from the PC market. Even if Tegra isn't the greatest product, at least Nvidia has recognized market directions and is attempting to go with trends. AMD has just cut corners and tried to hang onto whatever PC marketshare they have and not worry about anything else.

[Solstice]

I absolutely love my 7950, and I would hate to see AMD go away. An Intel / Nvidia monopoly scares the shit out of me.

[2San]

This. Intel will sadly dominate.... Hope they can get back up with the next gen consoles. And the actually have good desktop CPUs now, the 8350 and below seems good compared to FX

Intel is already dominating and in most cases is the best bang for your buck. With GPU's however AMD at least provided nicely priced cards.

I am not worried about intel. Thanks to chaning PC market it will keep prices under control on that side. On the GPU front having nvidia as the only game in town would be bad. If they hold on a while longer on the PC GPU side I think they will be good. All console ports will be made around modern AMD GPUs so might a lot less driver issue and they might get a bit more performance. That and with all console makers using lot of compute stuff it might speed up the adoption on the PC which AMD desperately needs to make up the gap in CPU performance. Imagine Kavari where the on board compute units do the physics and other things to level out the playing field with haswell in gaming. Also on the lower end the compute makes the Jaguar SOCs a much better solution than even against next generation Atoms. Compute and HSA could really turn the tide for AMD along with temash and kabini sucking up the high volume lower end desktops and laptops. I know at work we will be looking at the jaguar SOCs to replace many of the aging computers we have. Low power and heat are idea for what a lot of our PCs do especially in patient rooms where they are on 24/7 and don't require a ton of CPU.

Yeah, definitely more worrying on the GPU side of things. Maybe Intel will take a proper stab at it, if it's only Nvidia.

[kinggroin]

On the one hand, I'm upset that this could lead to high prices with little competition if they go under.


On the other hand, fuck 'em. They have consistently been behind on getting the software side of things to match with their usually great hardware. Tired of waiting till day 20 on my day one purchase, to have it work as well as it should be.

[kpjolee]

why are MS/Sony using AMD chips when AMD is going down

AMD is pretty much only company that can offer CPU and GPU together

[zomgbbqftw]

zomb, what does it say to you about the possibility of spinning the graphics division off. as the only profitable wing of the company, do you see this as an achievement - (barely) rising above mismanagement/bloat - ? or does the meagre return on investment speak purely for their products being outclassed? would you invest?

It doesn't have the capital to survive. They might do well to sell ATi to Samsung who can leverage the IP for their mobile processors. ATi can't survive alone. No way.

[Spongebob]

If AMD goes down how much will NVIDIA start charging for their GPUs?

$500+ for mid-range cards?

On the one hand, I'm upset that this could lead to high prices with little competition if they go under. On the other hand, fuck 'em. They have consistently been behind on getting the software side of things to match with their usually great hardware. Tired of waiting till day 20 on my day one purchase, to have it work as well as it should be.

lol

[cpp_is_king]

Yep, definitely one of the reasons. All their shitty CF GPUs, terrible drivers and poor game support turned me to Nvidia.

Except that their graphics division is the only one that's profitable. So there seems to be more to the story

[Solstice]

If AMD goes down how much will NVIDIA start charging for their GPUs? $500+ for mid-range cards?

$500 is being optimistic

[LumpOfCole]

If AMD ever goes under, we would probably see $900 single GPU video cards from nVidia.

It would be scary times for our wallets.

[ghst]

I absolutely love my 7950, and I would hate to see AMD go away. An Intel / Nvidia monopoly scares the shit out of me.

i generally like what AMD offer in video cards. wider buses, larger RAM pools, leaving the firmware wide open to leapfrog from an enthusiast part to a top end card by changing a couple of numbers, but your mileage can and will vary. their drivers do seem to have come back around in the last year, but people were saying that back in 2010 before rage and numerous other unhappy accidents.

i wouldn't recommend them to a friend without a sternly worded disclaimer.

[Spongebob]

If AMD ever goes under, we would probably see $900 single GPU video cards from nVidia. It would be scary times for our wallets.

About that....

[zomgbbqftw]

Seriously. Stock is up 10% on the fact that they didn't hemorrhage as much as expected. The market is so wacky...

It's slightly less catastrophic than expected. Markets had priced in a loss of $1.3-1.4bn so the addition in share price is just reflecting that.

[Shai-Tan]

It's pretty weird how different experinces you can have with ATI cards. Have owned Ati cards since 2008 (4850&5850) and never have had a single problem with hardware or software.

This is one of those fanboy topics where people exaggerate everything to favor their chosen manufacturer. I've always had multiple computers with cards from both and Nvidia is actually the one with worse bugs in drivers in the last years but it's a tradeoff because they tend to have faster updates, especially for sli profile. AMD tend to not screw up older games as much. Luckily I have one computer with a 570 sli and another with 6950 xfire.

[Solstice]

i generally like what AMD offer. wider buses, larger RAM pools, leaving the firmware wide open to leapfrog from an enthusiast part to a top end card by changing a couple of numbers, but your mileage can and will vary. their drivers do seem to have come back around in the last year, but people we saying that back in 2010 before rage and numerous other unhappy accidents.

I had a 4870 and a 6950 before, so I know all about those driver days. They really have come a long way, and in the newest Catalyst (13.1 I think?), they added in super easy application specific support. Much easier than before.

[Mashing]

I used to not care for Nvidia very much, but the GTX680 is pretty much the best designed video card I've ever owned. So powerful and so quiet.

[Shai-Tan]

I had a 4870 and a 6950 before, so I know all about those driver days. They really have come a long way, and in the newest Catalyst (13.1 I think?), they added in super easy application specific support. Much easier than before.

The one limitation there is you can't specify a specific driver aa like on nvidia.

Anyway desktop video cards is not really where they are hurting as a company. It's their failure in cpu and the impression I get from Anandtech is their gpu switching to discrete gpu on laptops has had a lot of problems that has prevented their adoption. And of course the shifting market (big fail with Llano etc)