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Feds seized nearly 1,500 guns in raid

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S

sturmdogg

Member
Feds seized nearly 1,500 guns in raid

ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) - A federal search warrant affidavit outlines the massive raid that seized nearly 1,500 firearms from the home and business of an Albuquerque man and why the feds were after him.

Last week rifles lined the lawn of a northeast Albuquerque home that belonged to Robert Adams. Homeland Security Investigations was also busy loading hundreds of handguns into boxes.

It took federal agents days to log every weapon seized into evidence.

Four search warrants filed Thursday show the HSI investigators seized nearly 900 firearms from Adams' home. There were 548 handguns and 317 rifles listed in the warrant return inventory.

They also searched his office that day taking 599 pistols and revolvers.

Adams has not been charged with any crimes although Homeland Security said the investigation is not over yet.

Neighbors said Adams was a gun collector, and some heard he was a licensed gun seller, too.

Federal investigators confirm that. However, they're also investigating him for possible gun smuggling, tax evasion and violating importation laws.
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So, let me get this straight: DHS raided a guy's home, and seizes his entire gun collection even though he didn't break the law? How is this shit legal? I thought it was "Innocent until proven guilty"?
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
why not post the whole article?

Court documents reveal federal agents were watching Adams for years and that some documentation was missing "to determine to whom Adams [was] selling or exporting his firearms."

The guns were also not properly marked possibly to make the guns more valuable and to avoid paying high import taxes, investigators alleged.

However, a bigger concern is that no markings on the guns and missing documents mean the guns are not traceable by law enforcement.

One neighbor who did not want to be identified said it was a shock.

“I didn’t really see the guns but from a distance," the neighbor said. "I saw them being pulling them out into the front yard.

“Its very scary in the fact that the school is so close by makes it seem even more dangerous.”

The search warrant also said Adams was investigated in Canada for keeping about 80 illegal guns in a storage unit. U.S. agents worked with Canadian police on that case.
Click to expand...
 
S

sturmdogg

Member
KHarvey16 said:
They seized the weapons as part of their investigation. Presumably they had enough to convince someone to issue a warrant. I'm not exactly sure what you think the problem is.
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I guess my problem is DHS raided his house even though he hasn't broken the law. Or is that how it's usually done, that suspicion of wrongdoing is enough for a warrant? Serious question.

Escape Goat said:
why not post the whole article?
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that was frowned upon here for some reason.
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
sturmdogg said:
I guess my problem is DHS raided his house even though he hasn't broken the law. Or is that how it's usually done, that suspicion of wrongdoing is enough for a warrant? Serious question.
Click to expand...

Suspicion and sufficient evidence to establish probable cause. They have to have a good reason to suspect they'll find something. It looks like they were investigating for a long time and got enough together to get the warrant to go in.
 
B

Bombadil

Banned
sturmdogg said:
I guess my problem is DHS raided his house even though he hasn't broken the law. Or is that how it's usually done, that suspicion of wrongdoing is enough for a warrant? Serious question.



I was under the impression that was frowned upon here for some reason.
Click to expand...

You sound like every bad guys' lawyer on Law & Order.
 
B

Bodacious

Banned
sturmdogg said:
I guess my problem is DHS raided his house even though he hasn't broken the law. Or is that how it's usually done, that suspicion of wrongdoing is enough for a warrant? Serious question.
Click to expand...

Fourth Amendment ... "and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
sturmdogg said:
I guess my problem is DHS raided his house even though he hasn't broken the law. Or is that how it's usually done, that suspicion of wrongdoing is enough for a warrant? Serious question.
Click to expand...

Check what escape goat posted. You missed the part where he had illegal guns in Canada and a metric ton of untraceable gun in his house. I may be a layman, but that sounds a tad suspicious. Sort of like the sort of stuff an illegal arms dealer would do.
 
way more

way more

Member
If the second amendment doesn't protect international arms dealers and weapon smugglers then what is it worth?
 
T

tokkun

Member
sturmdogg said:
I guess my problem is DHS raided his house even though he hasn't broken the law. Or is that how it's usually done, that suspicion of wrongdoing is enough for a warrant? Serious question.
Click to expand...

Consider the alternative you are suggesting: What if law enforcement could not collect personal property as evidence until after a person had already been found guilty of a crime in court?

It's a Catch-22 for any crime involving unlawful possession of items. You could not gather evidence without the person being found guilty, but you could not hope to have them found guilty without evidence.
 
T

Textured Monk

Member
OP's getting caught up in thinking "has not been charged with any crime" means "hasn't broken the law." Even in the first excerpt posted, it says the investigation isn't over. If there's any evidentiary value to the guns they'll be seized and examined before charges are laid. As well as the stuff already mentioned in the full article.
 
A

Air Zombie Meat

Member
The op has posted links to infowars stuff before. I just checked the front page there and sure enough this story is there presented like this. lol.
 
C

Chumly

Member
I can only imagine that if all murder crimes you had to convict the person of murder before doing search warrants. LOL
 
B

Bodacious

Banned
bangai-o said:
i feel like there could be better things to do in life than having thousands of guns.
Click to expand...

I know a guy in his late 50's who has inherited gun collections twice, once from a business partner and once from family. He now owns over 400 long guns and 200 handguns, almost all from the good old days of high grade wood and blued steel. They're worth a fantastic fortune. He's a nice guy. Wouldn't hurt a fly. Loves shooting ducks though.
 
R

RobotMafia

Banned
Right-wingers on this board seem to be losing their shit lately. THE GOVT IS COMING FOR MY GUNS. No, they aren't, you fucking psycho.
 
J

Jacob

Member
sturmdogg said:
I guess my problem is DHS raided his house even though he hasn't broken the law. Or is that how it's usually done, that suspicion of wrongdoing is enough for a warrant? Serious question.
Click to expand...

How do you not know this? The police carry out search warrants during the course of their investigations, regardless of what sort of suspected crime is investigated and whether guns are involved or not. This is really basic stuff.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
This is stuff that actually addresses gun violence: trafficking and straw selling. We need to see more of it, alongside background checks. An assault weapons ban won't do much of anything, whereas good police work (alongside the FBI) could help stop guns from flooding the streets of cities
 
B

Bodacious

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
This is stuff that actually addresses gun violence: trafficking and straw selling. We need to see more of it, alongside background checks. An assault weapons ban won't do much of anything, whereas good police work (alongside the FBI) could help stop guns from flooding the streets of cities
Click to expand...

Agreed. And hopefully, the justice department and BATFE have stopped doing it.
 
B

bro1

Banned
R2D4 said:
Could have fooled me and anyone else paying attention the past month.
Click to expand...

nobody is going to take your guns away. Can you even imagine the logistics in that? The FBI coming door to door to ask for your guns?

I love how the right-wing thinks the government is this faceless entity. It's made up of your neighbors and classmates. It's normal people trying to do a job and get along with everybody else. So calm down Cletus. Your guns are safe.
 
P

powersurge

Member
Well the police have no problem aiming their weapons at a newborn:

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/31/oakland_cops_pointed_guns_at_sleeping_baby/

So I'd think they would have no problem attempting to disarm the public.

With that said in the OP's case if they had a proper warrant I don't see an issue with this if he was committing a crime. I'm guessing that charges will be pending soon they just haven't finished gathering evidence. There are plenty of cases of police abuse and misuse of power but I suspect this isn't one of them. If however he is not charged or if he is found not guilty all of his property should be returned. If not a lawsuit should be filed.
 
G

genjiZERO

Member
nerdy1redux said:
nobody is going to take your guns away. Can you even imagine the logistics in that? The FBI coming door to door to ask for your guns?

I love how the right-wing thinks the government is this faceless entity. It's made up of your neighbors and classmates. It's normal people trying to do a job and get along with everybody else. So calm down Cletus. Your guns are safe.
Click to expand...

I agree. I the idea that even with "tightened" gun law (which I don't even think are going to happen anyway) the idea that the government will come by people's houses to collect guns is patently absurd. That many gun advocates think they will, exemplified by the existence of this thread (where OP can't grasp that seizing weapons in a raid =/= standard for criminal conviction), shows you how irrational they are about it.

Dey turk ur gurns!!!!
 
C

Cyrillus

Member
Bodacious said:
Wouldn't hurt a fly. Loves shooting ducks though.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.


On topic, while it certainly sucks to have your possessions seized as part of an investigation, I really don't see how this is any more egregious than any other case where evidence is seized. I feel like this thread only exists because of the recent "gub'ment gonna take yer guns!" panic that's been floating around while discussing gun control.

If they had seized his entire collection of Russian doll figurines in a counterfeiting investigation, would you be as incensed?
 
J

jaxword

Member
R2D4 said:
Could have fooled me and anyone else paying attention the past month.
Click to expand...

rtuJ3.png
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
genjiZERO said:
I agree. I the idea that even with "tightened" gun law (which I don't even think are going to happen anyway) the idea that the government will come by people's houses to collect guns is patently absurd. That many gun advocates think they will, exemplified by the existence of this thread (where OP can't grasp that seizing weapons in a raid =/= standard for criminal conviction), shows you how irrational they are about it.

Dey turk ur gurns!!!!
Click to expand...
The NRA was for universal background checks before it was against it.

If only somebody other than Obama tried to agree with them and 90% of Americans. Alas.
 
N

neorej

ERMYGERD!
Now relax, it's obvious he needed 1500 guns to protect his home and family. Sheez, doesn't anyone watch the Matrix?
 
B

BigDes

Member
R2D4 said:
Could have fooled me and anyone else paying attention the past month.
Click to expand...

If by paying attention you mean paying attention just enough to get the wrong end of the stick then yeah I guess

If by paying attention you mean, you know actually paying attention then no
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Hitokage said:
The NRA was for universal background checks before it was against it.

If only somebody other than Obama tried to agree with them and 90% of Americans. Alas.
Click to expand...

Here's a not well known fact: Back in the 60s, blacks had fought for the right to own and possess guns in the streets feeling they had to protect themselves from the police.

Then, the NRA supported Ronald Reagan signing the 1967 Mulford Act restricting people from carrying Firearms.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
TacticalFox88 said:
Here's a not well known fact: Back in the 60s, blacks had fought for the right to own and possess guns in the streets feeling they had to protect themselves from the police.

Then, the NRA supported Ronald Reagan signing the 1967 Mulford Act restricting people from carrying Firearms.
Click to expand...
Well, they did make it clear that they don't want "bad guys" having guns, and it's obvious that everyone with any sort of mental ailment doesn't account for all of them.

Traditional America.
 
B

Baraka in the White House

2-Terms of Kombat
TacticalFox88 said:
Here's a not well known fact: Back in the 60s, blacks had fought for the right to own and possess guns in the streets feeling they had to protect themselves from the police.

Then, the NRA supported Ronald Reagan signing the 1967 Mulford Act restricting people from carrying Firearms.
Click to expand...

Hey, they just wanted their country back.
 
R

rCIZZLE

Member
RobotMafia said:
Right-wingers on this board seem to be losing their shit lately. THE GOVT IS COMING FOR MY GUNS. No, they aren't, you fucking psycho.
Click to expand...

LOL

And there are plenty of people on here who think all guns should be banned. Plenty of people in the country, too. There's a reason why those "psychos" are hoarding guns.
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
Here's a not well known fact: Back in the 60s, blacks had fought for the right to own and possess guns in the streets feeling they had to protect themselves from the police.

Then, the NRA supported Ronald Reagan signing the 1967 Mulford Act restricting people from carrying Firearms.
Click to expand...
Yep, the history of gun control in this country is amazingly interesting.
 
C

Cyrillus

Member
rCIZZLE said:
LOL

And there are plenty of people on here who think all guns should be banned. Plenty of people in the country, too. There's a reason why those "psychos" are hoarding guns.
Click to expand...
Yes, there's a reason. It's just not nearly as good a reason as they think it is.
 
B

Baraka in the White House

2-Terms of Kombat
rCIZZLE said:
LOL

And there are plenty of people on here who think all guns should be banned. Plenty of people in the country, too. There's a reason why those "psychos" are hoarding guns.
Click to expand...

Sure. But even the most hardcore anti-gun people on here concede that confiscating the hundreds of millions of guns in the country is an impossible and ultimately futile endeavor. Pretty much any proposed gun ban has a grandfather cause that the White Knights of the Second Amendment refuse to acknowledge for some reason, otherwise potato guns and cap gun ammo wouldn't be so hard to find.
 
V

Volimar

Member
What's infowars?

rCIZZLE said:
LOL

And there are plenty of people on here who think all guns should be banned. Plenty of people in the country, too. There's a reason why those "psychos" are hoarding guns.
Click to expand...

A lot of those people aren't Americans though. Most Americans know that the 2nd Amendment isn't going away anytime soon. What people wish would happen and what people reasonably expect to be able to happen are two different things.

Unless you're the NRA.
 
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