[derFeef]

That's the first time I've heard of that...

They have 300 people iirc.

[Melchiah]

I'd rather take WipEout than a more typical street racer, so in that sense I'm deeply disappointed, although I'm somewhat curious how it'll turn out. Hopefully it'll at least be as fast as Wipeout, and feature some good hills and jumps instead of flat surfaces like street racers usually do.

[Router]

I want to believe. in fact, I do believe. it's in the works and it's going to be amazing. god, I hope I'm not wrong. please let it be in the development.

With all the evidence put forward, I think the odds are very good that a new PGR is coming. I just think we are not letting ourselves get too carried away just in case we don't get a new PGR.

That loss would hurt too much.

I'm convinced we are getting PGR for launch but it will be the first in the next gen of Arcade titles.

[Betrayer of hope]

Its really sad to think of no wipeout for the ps4

what a tragedy

[nelsonroyale]

That honestly looks next gen

It really doesn't. It is a very nice looking game on 360.

[Moosichu]

I think the GT team should suck up some pride and let evolution use the GT brand-name in some form. I still hold out hope that they are sharing car-model assets allowing for quicker dev times.

[Melchiah]

Hmm, seeing as there are franchises that are so associated with one console that the sales are pretty lopsided (Mass Effect for 360 and Final Fantasy for PS for example) I wonder if they would just release them on the one console they know it will sell best on at the start of the gen when the install base is pretty small, to save development time and cost.I know it probably wouldn't happen though.

I highly doubt that'll happen with Mass Effect after all the work they've done on PS3, and build their fanbase there. Not to mention, that the next gen systems will be far more alike, so porting should be far easier than it's been this gen. Final Fantasy may remain exclusive in Japan, but is probably going to be multiplatform in western territories.

[Drek]

How crazy would it be for Bethesda to go single platform exclusive for Fallout 4? If MS snagged that it would be huge. With all the problems they had with PS3 I sort of wonder.

Except the PS4 will be much easier for Bethesda to program for and is nothing like the PS3 architecturally.

Bethesda's problems on the PS3 were:
1. split memory pool between CPU and GPU.
2. bigger OS footprint than Xbox 360.
3. Had 10MB less memory in the box as it didn't have e-ram cache the 360 had.

Those hang ups plus a system with only 512MB total when they were primarily working from PCs with several GB of memory.

Now the PS4 is unified memory, has a comparatively steamlined OS, is easier hardware to work with overall, and will have ~3.5GB of memory available, more than any Bethesda game has required on PC even with Windows bloat.

Bethesda did actually try to build a better partnership with Sony early last generation, FYI. They put a bunch of extra features into Oblivion PS3. Bethesda wants to be an Activision/EA level publisher, you don't get there by making any of your major IPs console exclusive.

Their games already sell massively better on the Xbox line, and Morrowind on Xbox wasn't exactly a game changer that generation. If anything those are reasons why Bethesda doesn't even have a real world price for going exclusive, they need to make better inroads with the Playstation core fanbase to maximize their the strength of their IPs.

[velociraptor]

I don't want to see Evolution studios making a Wipeout game. A PGR clone would be way better.

[Drek]

You keep telling yourself that one. It's pretty funny that anyone thinks GT6 is coming out anytime soon, when is the last time they released a title that fast?

1. Because they've been working on it since 2010.
2. Because 3D scanning technology is likely massively streamlining the biggest bottleneck from their production cycle (modeling cars).
3. Because they've had studio-wide realignment to improve their productivity.

Expecting a studio that had been good for two full iterations per 5 year console cycle to repeat the one time they dropped the ball and put out one new iteration in a 6 year cycle is over-weighting the most recent sample.

[gkryhewy]

1. Because they've been working on it since 2010. 2. Because 3D scanning technology is likely massively streamlining the biggest bottleneck from their production cycle (modeling cars). 3. Because they've had studio-wide realignment to improve their productivity. Expecting a studio that had been good for two full iterations per 5 year console cycle to repeat the one time they dropped the ball and put out one new iteration in a 6 year cycle is over-weighting the most recent sample.

It is the only HD sample.

[amar212]

It really doesn't. It is a very nice looking game on 360.

With original uncompressed assets, 60fps/720p, real-time HDR and few alpha effects - you would die of beauty.

Not even to speak about PGR4.

I give you 1K texture for NY Firebrigade building for PGR3:

And yes, it is an in-game asset.

[Zaventem]

^ So good.

[Himself]

I wish street racers weren't so popular. The racing genre needs way more variety. But hey people love their comfort zones.

[BADNED]

I bet Horizon was pretty cheap to make considering they used the Forza engine and car models, I'd bet PGR will do the same thing. If T10 have already implemented wet handling physics for Forza 5 and providing support in general, I could see a 40-50 man team being able to crank out a launch game.

Wet handling and other physics are in development for the FM series since day one, just not yet included in a retail release for obvious reasons.

T10 has two teams, the second team co-developed Horizons with PlayGround...

Not really! Horizon is pretty much a sole PG creation. Just a handful of T10 people provided some assistance, that is all.

[Shaneus]

Is Lucid doing the lifting on their own or are they getting help? Because I can't believe they are doing the heavy lifting.

Prediction: February 19th.

Music fades in...
A logo appears:

Fade to black.

A second logo appears:

Fade to black.



"Published by...."



Cue a brief 2s teaser clip/montage of some cars racing around NYC.



**Insert PGR5 logo here**

"It's not about how fast you drive..."

"...It's about how you drive fast."

You're definitely not crazy. Both are great, but I always liked PGR's overall atheistic a lot more than Forza.

Yeah, I've always been a massive fan of that kind of aesthetic that has always traditionally been the domain of UK devs. Think Bizarre, Psygnosis/Studio Liverpool, a lot of the Amiga-era devs.

I'm still wondering how a team of 40 people that mainly work on mobile games, are going to deliver a worthwhile PGR game.. It seems like Turn 10, PG would have to be helping Lucid in order to achieve greatness. To be honest, I don't want PGR, Horizon and Forza all to feel the 'same'. It becomes a sort of been there done that affair...

Man, you're really Mr. Negativity re: a new PGR, ain't ya? ;)

PS. They'll get the extra staff by working with Sawfly :D

I just hope they aren't 'Xtreem' and underground, and slightly more down to earth like PGR.

If this is all basically a formality and there really is a PGR being headed up by Lucid, you won't have anything to worry about. Hell, even the game they did with weapons came out looking clean and cool, not dudebroish at all.

[megashock5]

OP was edited by the time I saw the thread.

So it sounds like...

1. PGR sequel possible for Xbox
2. PGR-like competitor for PS4 made by ex-Bizzare people

is that right?

I can't decide between the two systems based on what little we know, and this situation certainly won't make it any easier. Can't wait to see footage and hear pricing info.

[SolidSnakex]

I think the GT team should suck up some pride and let evolution use the GT brand-name in some form.

It's a bad idea. GT is a sim racer built for car enthusiasts. A large amount of the marketing for the series goes into marketing it to people that aren't traditional gamers. You can bet that those people wouldn't be too happy if they bought a PS4 and this game only to discover that it's some over the top arcade racer that only has the GT name on it in order to sell additional copies.

It might've worked if this were a GT game for the Vita. Mostly because I don't think a lot of GT fans give a damn about handle gaming. But making an arcadey game with the GT brand on a console would be a bad decision.

[jett]

Eh...I hope the PS3 racer is not some street racer with wide ass lanes and interminably long straights with a couple of corners here and there. Fucking western arcade racers.

[Gadirok]

Eh...I hope the PS3 racer is not some street racer with wide ass lanes and interminably long straights with a couple of corners here and there. Fucking western arcade racers.

Don't judge the entire franchise with 2048. There was only one track that did that in pulse.

I believe that if these rumours are true, I may have to end up getting a PS4 sooner than I think. Liverpool confirmed my purchase for the PSP, and my vita. Pulse is amazing.

[jett]

Don't judge the entire franchise with 2048. There was only one track that did that in pulse. I believe that if these rumours are true, I may have to end up getting a PS4 sooner than I think. Liverpool confirmed my purchase for the PSP, and my vita. Pulse is amazing.

Huh, I'm not talking about Wipeout. :p

[CrunchinJelly]

Eh...I hope the PS3 racer is not some street racer with wide ass lanes and interminably long straights with a couple of corners here and there. Fucking western arcade racers.

Don't judge the entire franchise with 2048. There was only one track that did that in pulse.

Genuine LOL.

I hope you meant that, Gadirok.

[The Mana Legend]

I'd rather take WipEout than a more typical street racer, so in that sense I'm deeply disappointed, although I'm somewhat curious how it'll turn out. Hopefully it'll at least be as fast as Wipeout, and feature some good hills and jumps instead of flat surfaces like street racers usually do.

Hey, at least Nintendo has got you covered with their superior F-Zero series...

...on Nintendo Land.

Anyways, I hope they are more like PGR than Gran Turismo or Forza. I always prefer a mix of simulation and arcade rather than straight up arcade or simulation.

[waypoetic]

Don't judge the entire franchise with 2048. There was only one track that did that in pulse. I believe that if these rumours are true, I may have to end up getting a PS4 sooner than I think. Liverpool confirmed my purchase for the PSP, and my vita. Pulse is amazing.

He wasn't talking about WipEout :]

... And 2048 is a great WipEout game.

1. WipEout HD/Fury
2. WipEout 2048
3. WipEout Pulse

That's my "podium" anyways.

[shagg_187]

OP was edited by the time I saw the thread. So it sounds like... 1. PGR sequel possible for Xbox 2. PGR-like competitor for PS4 made by ex-Bizzare people is that right? I can't decide between the two systems based on what little we know, and this situation certainly won't make it any easier. Can't wait to see footage and hear pricing info.

What I gather from this is that Evolution Studios started making their next title right when Motorstorm Apocalypse ended. A smaller team worked on Motorstorm RC to fill in the void while the lead team worked on next-gen racer with ex-Bizarre. They wanted it to be a spinoff to Gran Turismo but Polyphony didn't agree to it (possibly because they are making their own sequel). It shows that the game maybe as big in size as Gran Turismo which is why they wanted Polyphony's blessings (which they didn't get).

Meanwhile, ex-Bizarre and Criterion devs Playground Games and/or Lucid Games are working on PGR5 (Playground Games worked on Forza Horizon recently).

[TheOddOne]

Prediction: February 19th.

Why the hell would the Wipout devs be working on it? :lol

I can see a T10 co-production more likely.

[1st Course]

Sony consoles (and portables) have always launched with a Ridge Racer game; maybe no one care about the franchise anymore but I hope that we will see a proper installment on the PS4.

[op_ivy]

Wet handling and other physics are in development for the FM series since day one, just not yet included in a retail release for obvious reasons. Not really! Horizon is pretty much a sole PG creation. Just a handful of T10 people provided some assistance, that is all.

wet and other physics... dirt?

[SolidSnakex]

Sony consoles (and portables) have always launched with a Ridge Racer game; maybe no one care about the franchise anymore but I hope that we will see a proper installment on the PS4.

I absolutely want a Ridge Racer. But they need to drop the physics engine that they've adopted after RRV was released. It's just way too simplistic and takes all the fun out of drifting.

[Fersis]

Cool beans.

[phosphor112]

Its really sad to think of no wipeout for the ps4 what a tragedy

Re-read the source.... nvm I forgot it got deleted because the OP self promoted his site, but anyway, a lot of ex-Liverpool guys were kept by Sony and are apparently working on a new game.

[velociraptor]

I think the GT team should suck up some pride and let evolution use the GT brand-name in some form. I still hold out hope that they are sharing car-model assets allowing for quicker dev times.

I really do hope they share assets, however, I feel PD are a bunch of elitists who won't share anything.

[scently]

I really do hope they share assets, however, I feel PD are a bunch of elitists who won't share anything.

I don't think that's why they said no. Its probably so that they don't dilute the GT name and its associated meaning and it makes sense, as did tacking the Forza name to Horizon since it came out so late in the generation. The Forza name probably helped a lot in terms of marketing it. Since this new game is probably going to be a launch title I think it will be able to do well on its own name, so long as its a good game, and there is no better time to launch a new IP than at the start of a new gen. Even more so if said game is available at launch date.

As for PGR5, it makes sense to launch it alongside the new xbox, especially since the brand has always been present at the launch of the past 2 xbox, and its game that is anticipated and loved by most xbox racing fans.

[Strange in Stereo]

a pgr-like game for the playstation would be awesome and with the right marketing it would push racing games again. well, i at least hope that. i also hope, that ms is finally reviving pgr

Haha is that Jack Black?

[mrklaw]

What I gather from this is that Evolution Studios started making their next title right when Motorstorm Apocalypse ended. A smaller team worked on Motorstorm RC to fill in the void while the lead team worked on next-gen racer with ex-Bizarre. They wanted it to be a spinoff to Gran Turismo but Polyphony didn't agree to it (possibly because they are making their own sequel). It shows that the game maybe as big in size as Gran Turismo which is why they wanted Polyphony's blessings (which they didn't get). Meanwhile, ex-Bizarre and Criterion devs Playground Games and/or Lucid Games are working on PGR5 (Playground Games worked on Forza Horizon recently).

I wonder if evolution weren't allowed to use the GT name, were they given access to Polyphony's car models?

[jello44]

Haha is that Jack Black?

Yup.

[Reiko]

It really doesn't. It is a very nice looking game on 360.

PGR3 & PGR4 were further ahead compared to GT5, Forza, and Forza Horizon.

Why?

Because they actually rendered the windowshield in cockpit view! At launch!

[nelsonroyale]

PGR3 & PGR4 were further ahead compared to GT5, Forza, and Forza Horizon. Why? Because they actually rendered the windowshield in cockpit view! At launch!

I think the cars in GT5 looked better, but I prefer some of the tracks in PGR games. Also, 3d trees.

[paradise_circus]

PGR3 & PGR4 were further ahead compared to GT5, Forza, and Forza Horizon. Why? Because they actually rendered the windowshield in cockpit view! At launch!

some glass have cars in gt5,too. however, the cockpitglass has to be in the next gt/forza.

[SolidSnakex]

I wonder if evolution weren't allowed to use the GT name, were they given access to Polyphony's car models?

Hopefully. It's certainly save Evolution a lot of time. And potentially it could mean that they could share models, assuming that Evolution can build their own models to a high enough quality. They'd be able to focus on the supercars, which are the cars that some GT fans want more of.

[Ephemeris]

I never realized how much I missed PGR until now. :(

[Shaneus]

For those who want to follow a little bit more on some of the leadup to this (at least, on the PGR side of things), head over the PGR appreciation thread and read on from this post. Just try to ignore the crazy ;)

I was just having a look, though, and even though I'm sure someone here said Evolution had a stack of ex-Bizarre guys, but going by their LinkedIn page only 2 out of their staffers registered on that site are ex-Bizarre:

(top selection is "current company", the lower one is "past company")

I could've sworn I read on here a post from one of the Lucid guys confirming this, but maybe that's changed in the last few weeks and the info hasn't been updated.

Why the hell would the Wipout devs be working on it? :lol I can see a T10 co-production more likely.

Classic British developers! They need to stick together. And besides, Psygnosis published the original Formula 1 games when they were made by Bizarre... they already have a (okay, it's a stretch) working relationship! Don't forget, they also did Rollcage and Destruction Derby :)

The prospect of having two PGR-style games on launch for the next generation of consoles is exciting to say the least, but having a pretty good feeling that at least one WILL be PGR is... oh man.

[pottuvoi]

3. Had 10MB less memory in the box as it didn't have e-ram cache the 360 had.

It actually gave bigger advantage when using MSAA, as you never had to store unresolved buffer to main memory.

[twinturbo2]

I just rewatched the PGR4 intro. I will literally buy a NextBox if PGR5 is there at launch.

[Emwitus]

I think the GT team should suck up some pride and let evolution use the GT brand-name in some form. I still hold out hope that they are sharing car-model assets allowing for quicker dev times.

Keep those filthy hands of my Gran turismo. shame on you.

[Shaneus]

You know, I have a theory as to why MS would want to get back onto the PGR wagon. People have seen good looking cars this gen, with with Forza 4's Autovista and GT5's photo mode. They're pretty fresh in our minds, with the games only having been out a year or two. But they haven't experienced consistently good, immersive, realistic environments that are able to blow people away. That may have happened on PC with ENB mods to GTA4 and such, but they might think the public thinks that realistic looking cars are a lot easier to do than realistic looking environments.

Lucid, with their heritage in putting together some incredible, most would say unmatched ability in putting together a photorealistic cityscape for a racing game, would be perfect to show off exactly what Microsoft's next console is capable of. Why else would they be working on a next-gen title but using a five-year-old game as the base for it (apparently)?

Just another crackpot theory, but dwelling on it... it makes a lot of sense. Turn 10 don't have the experience with putting together large-scale cities like ex-Bizarre staff do, and neither really do Playground (open world desert no problemo, but a city is another kettle of fish, I'd imagine). But Lucid have a large number of technical and environment artists who worked on PGR4 (amongst other titles).

Anyway.

I just rewatched the PGR4 intro. I will literally buy a NextBox if PGR5 is there at launch.

This one? It may sound weird, but I'm pretty sure PGR4 is the only game I've ever owned where I will let the intro play through every single time it's in the disc tray. It does funny things to me.

[Ding-Ding]

Just a thought but could this info be wrong?

If Lucid was working on PGR5, the title would be 2nd party published by MS. With Lucid showing a teaser pic, I doubt very much that MS would allow such a move for a console that they haven't even announced yet.

When you also take into account Lucid are quite a small team and they look like they are shooting for a 2013 release, a full blown PGR title looks a little bit suspect

I cant help but feel that they are more likely working on a street racer title on IOS or maybe a version of PGR4 on Windows tablets. Both would certainly fit their background more (from a mobile perspective) than a fully fledged sequel on a next gen platform.

Hope im wrong but...

[Certinty]

If the current rumours of the next Xbox are indeed true, PGR5 is perhaps the only reason I would even consider getting one at launch. Maybe a second Forza Horizon too, both of them are really the only Xbox exclusives that interest me.

[spanks]

This thread just made me realise that the futuristic-racing genre is dead. No Wipeout. No F-Zero. No Extreme G or San Fran Rush or Jet Moto. I guess the world only has room for kart-racers and super-serious sims now.

[Rayven_king]

so which of these will have the most swag