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EvB
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:10 PM)
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So I caught this thread yesterday on here that somebody had noticed a ? on Mediamolecule's games section which linked to an 80's music video.

As it turns out and I pointed out in the thread, that part of the website had been there since before September last year.

Here is a snapshot of the page from October
http://web.archive.org/web/201210160...ule.com/games/

Here are some crazy time travellers from September last year talking about it on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/Grayspence/statu...37548866490368

Been browsing a few sites this evening and see that the contents of that thread is being reported as "News" by various places.

So far
Polygon
IGN
Videogamer.com

and a whole bunch of others
https://www.google.com/news?ncl=diHj...=English&hl=en

Seriously, what is it with games websites, why can't they do their own research or at the very least check their sources?
Non of the websites have even cited Neogaf as being the place that the news has come from either.
Last edited by EvB; 02-11-2013 at 09:12 PM.
ElectricBlanketFire
Too early for flapjacks?
(02-11-2013, 09:12 PM)
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What Neogaf needs to do is print out and mail a copy of each thread to itself and not open the envelope. The thread is now copyrighted.

Source: My uncle.
Wario64
works for Gamestop (lol)
(02-11-2013, 09:12 PM)
From yesterday:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512672


First article that popped up shortly after:

http://www.onlysp.com/2013/02/10/mot...al-in-10-days/



I don't mind it, just make sure to show where you got it
JeffGrubb
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:12 PM)
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Quesiton: I use NeoGAF all the time as a place to get started. If I see something on NeoGAF first, I'll give you guys the "Via NeoGAF" thing. Is that good enough?

Keep in mind that that isn't all I do. I'm mostly doing my own reporting, but our staff isn't very deep. It's mostly me doing all of the reporting with one other news writer out doing interviews and visits in S.F. every day of the week.

So it's hard to ignore a fast repository of potential news like NeoGAF.
G-Fex
(02-11-2013, 09:13 PM)
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Game Journalism is as bad a word as Gamer
santi_yo
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:13 PM)
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Yep, I remember watching that "?" video in October. It's not new. Not at all.
Zee-Row
I'm a HUGE Nickelback fan!

'Cause we all just wanna be big rockstars And live in hilltop houses driving fifteen cars
(02-11-2013, 09:13 PM)
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Some of you guys should be getting royalties , IGN and other game sites always get their news from here.
grimshawish
Banned
(02-11-2013, 09:13 PM)
Polygon at least used to copy and paste PR notices, not from the direct source but other gaming sites. Not sure if they do this anymore but.

It was the Pizza for Halo debacle where they pretended to be a UK centric site.
Withnail
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:14 PM)
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Most game journalists simply spend all day lurking on GAF looking for things to write about.

Hi guys!

Personally I think that any game journalists regularly using GAF as a source for their work should have the decency to also post here, ideally using their real name. Contribute to the discussion rather than just being a parasite.
Last edited by Withnail; 02-11-2013 at 09:17 PM.
No_Style
Doesn't want to make an
ass of himself
(02-11-2013, 09:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElTopo

Most of journalism = Copy + paste

Yeap. This isn't a "games journalism" exclusive.
G-Fex
(02-11-2013, 09:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Withnail

Most game journalists simply spend all day lurking on GAF looking for things to write about.

Hi guys!

KOTAKU: SHHHHHHHH.


I hate Kotaku
Alec2DaBreen
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Withnail

Most game journalists simply spend all day lurking on GAF looking for things to write about.

Hi guys!

This is true. I used to do it myself.
Morgadeth
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:16 PM)
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You've never heard of quoting a source? It's what news writers do.
injurai
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElectricBlanketFire

What Neogaf needs to do is print out and mail a copy of each thread to itself and not open the envelope. The thread is now copyrighted.

Source: My uncle.

Look at it this way. As long as these shitty sites are reposting our news to a viewer base of less discerning tastes and less reputable demeanor the better off gaf is by keeping the scum at bay.




2013 Injurai
Hasemo
(;・∀・)ハッ?
(02-11-2013, 09:18 PM)
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"Normal" journalism is like that too, you know.
GameE
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:18 PM)
Sites always steal from neogaf, its disgusting really :\
I know that Allgamesbeta does that and even lifts titles right from threads here o_O
mastrbiggy
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:18 PM)
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I don't really follow any of those sites, but I really enjoy Patrick Kelpeck's news articles.
kayos90
Tragic victim of fan death
(02-11-2013, 09:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Keiician

"Normal" journalism is like that too, you know.

Yup. A lot of normal day-to-day news reporting is almost like game journalism.
MiniBossBattle
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:19 PM)
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Step 1: Disable copy/paste on this website.
Step 2: Watch game journalism tear itself apart.
NateDrake
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by JeffGrubb

Quesiton: I use NeoGAF all the time as a place to get started. If I see something on NeoGAF first, I'll give you guys the "Via NeoGAF" thing. Is that good enough?

Keep in mind that that isn't all I do. I'm mostly doing my own reporting, but our staff isn't very deep. It's mostly me doing all of the reporting with one other news writer out doing interviews and visits in S.F. every day of the week.

So it's hard to ignore a fast repository of potential news like NeoGAF.

Sourcing NeoGAF is fine since you acknowledge you got the information from here. Some sites fail to give GAF credit for finding such things and run it as if they discovered the Tweet or tease on their own.
Killthee
helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
(02-11-2013, 09:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by JeffGrubb

Quesiton: I use NeoGAF all the time as a place to get started. If I see something on NeoGAF first, I'll give you guys the "Via NeoGAF" thing. Is that good enough?

Keep in mind that that isn't all I do. I'm mostly doing my own reporting, but our staff isn't very deep. It's mostly me doing all of the reporting with one other news writer out doing interviews and visits in S.F. every day of the week.

So it's hard to ignore a fast repository of potential news like NeoGAF.

Good enough for me as long as you also include a link to the original thread.
kenta
Has no PEINS
(02-11-2013, 09:20 PM)
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I feel like writers try to tiptoe around excessively crediting NeoGAF so it doesn't reflect poorly on themselves, but frankly I'd quite enjoy a site/service that surfaces the most relevant news and information from here. Like Techmeme for the game industry or something
JeffGrubb
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by GameE

Sites always steal from neogaf, its disgusting really :\
I know that Allgamesbeta does that and even lifts titles right from threads here o_O

Yeah, but NeoGAF just copies and pastes entire articles in a thread from some sites. Sure, you guys post a source link, that doesn't produce any traffic really.
RiccochetJ
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:22 PM)
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At least there are some places that have the decency to link to the threads they're writing about.
EvB
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:22 PM)
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Has there ever been a NeoGaf experiment into tricking the entire internet community with an elaborate news hoax?
waterydave
Banned
(02-11-2013, 09:22 PM)
I do find it amusing when major video game news sites mention that they got their information from NeoGaf. I find it similar to a kid saying "i have playstation 4 already and the graphics are a million times better than anything ever! my uncle works for sony and got if for me." than somehow it ends up on the from of the New York Times.

srsly?
Mesoian
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:23 PM)
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Games Journalism = Copy + paste

Most Journalism = Copy + Paste.

The best sources are the ones who break stories first, but don't expect everyone and their mother to not report on confirmed news, regardless of who breaks it first.
injurai
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by EvB

Has there ever been a NeoGaf experiment into tricking the entire internet community with an elaborate news hoax?

We just had a poster do this, and then report back on all the sights including Polygon copypasting everything.
JeffGrubb
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Killthee

Good enough for me as long as you also include a link to the original thread.

That's what the "Via NeoGAF" text would link to.
kenta
Has no PEINS
(02-11-2013, 09:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by EvB

Has there ever been a NeoGaf experiment into tricking the entire internet community with an elaborate news hoax?

Metal Gear Solid Triology comes to mind:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=186
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137707
jwhit28
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:24 PM)
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This is the majority of journalism. A story can only be broken once and in an age where anyone can have a big enough voice to be heard they will mostly be broken by twitter or forum members that don't have to worry so much about the fact checking. All the normal outlets can do is follow up, cite the source, and try to make sure it is true.
Mesoian
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by waterydave

I do find it amusing when major video game news sites mention that they got their information from NeoGaf. I find it similar to a kid saying "i have playstation 4 already and the graphics are a million times better than anything ever! my uncle works for sony and got if for me." than somehow it ends up on the from of the New York Times.

srsly?

It's the natural evolution of things. NeoGAF can sometimes sniff out the good and the bad though, only real difference besides using your gut in that, "My dad works for Square, no you can't play Final Fantasy 18, I'll bring it in tomorrow, oh I forgot."

Originally Posted by kenta

Metal Gear Solid Triology comes to mind:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=186
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137707

And even then, it eventually happened. Sort of.
Wario64
works for Gamestop (lol)
(02-11-2013, 09:25 PM)

Originally Posted by EvB

Has there ever been a NeoGaf experiment into tricking the entire internet community with an elaborate news hoax?

Metal Gear Solid Triology (IGN)


Wasn't elaborate though. Just a press release
injurai
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by JeffGrubb

Yeah, but NeoGAF just copies and pastes entire articles in a thread from some sites. Sure, you guys post a source link, that doesn't produce any traffic really.

that's for at work or possibly mobile readability.

It's a good thing people do that, I always try to give a good snippet of stuff for people to read.
TheSpoiler
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by jwhit28

This is the majority of journalism. A story can only be broken once and in an age where anyone can have a big enough voice to be heard they will mostly be broken by twitter or forum members that don't have to worry so much about the fact checking. All the normal outlets can do is follow up, cite the source, and try to make sure it is true.

I like to find other angles. It's really hard to confirm things, though, when you've got bigger sites bugging the sources. That being said, you guys have been really good about news and I always read through the threads in the fullest.

A sourcing always happens.
benny_a
extra source of jiggaflops
(02-11-2013, 09:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by MiniBossBattle

Step 1: Disable copy/paste on this website.
Step 2: Watch game journalism tear itself apart.

kayos90
Tragic victim of fan death
(02-11-2013, 09:27 PM)
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Just wondering, is it surprising to yall that a lot of the game news comes on NeoGAF first? Not for me. It has a ton of users with people working in the industry or has connections to the gaming industry, among others that allows them to have access to "secret" information and the like. Compare that to a site that doesn't have the manpower to find such things, granted they have the time and it's their job, and I think what happens in regards to NeoGAF having first dibs on a lot of news makes sense. I mean... what are the various publications going to do? Not post because it was on NeoGAF. Of course not. People think it's outrageous that various publications get information from NeoGAF. It's not. Also, in regards to copy-paste. Yes that happens but most of the times, if there's so little information in the news you can only reword/rephrase/re-whatever so many times to not make it sound like it was copy and pasted. Come on people.
Mesoian
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by MiniBossBattle

Step 1: Disable copy/paste on this website.
Step 2: Watch game journalism tear itself apart.

Naw, then you'll just get stuff like the PA Report, that just links to stories they headline.
Orca
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:28 PM)
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A lot of times it's just down to the author following the same people on Twitter that someone here did, but way too often it's blatantly lifted from the thread - even using the same phrasing at times.
ElectricBlanketFire
Too early for flapjacks?
(02-11-2013, 09:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by MiniBossBattle

Step 1: Disable copy/paste on this website.
Step 2: Watch game journalism tear itself apart.

Step 1: Print screen.
Step 2: Save as PDF.
Step 3: Recognize text.

Journalism ahh...finds a way.
EvB
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElectricBlanketFire

Step 1: Print screen.
Step 2: Save as PDF.
Step 3: Recognize text.

Journalism ahh...finds a way.

They'd probably just link to the PDF.
Stumpokapow
Currently AFK. Please ask another moderator for help or support.
(02-11-2013, 09:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by JeffGrubb

Yeah, but NeoGAF just copies and pastes entire articles in a thread from some sites. Sure, you guys post a source link, that doesn't produce any traffic really.

1) You can't compare behaviour by thousands of individual non-professional members of a community who are at best sort of passively moderated to a small number of people supposedly acting in a professional fashion

2) "He did it first" is a pretty lame justification for anything :p

3) We do encourage people to excerpt article and use a teaser-type format. It's not 100% followed, but we do our best. I don't expect teasing actually results in a higher clickthrough rate, just a lower reading comprehension rate. There's no easy answer here, and products like Readability/Instapaper and just generally RSS syndication are a much bigger challenge than a site like GAF. Personally when I post articles on GAF, I almost always link a Readability link for the article, because it's cleaner, easier to read, and permanently archived. This almost certainly negatively impacts authors, but I don't see a better solution.

If you do see an article that's posted without excerpting in a way that's unfair, please let us know and we'll edit the thread.
Squidofman
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:31 PM)
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Of course game sites link to GAF. For the same reason they link Reddit, and used to link Digg: most of them have staffs of 5-15 people. These community sites have thousands, or in Reddit's case millions of eyeballs scouring the internet every second for interesting stuff.

So of course they find interesting stuff. Or random/tiny things get noticed. Like this LBP thing.

I don't see a problem with gaming sites linking them (I do it all the time), so long as you credit at least the site, if not the user as well.

Edit: as for the "research" problem, yeah, it's a sad case of what happens when a major site doesn't cite and the "credit trail" is lost.
Last edited by Squidofman; 02-11-2013 at 09:37 PM.
JeffGrubb
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(02-11-2013, 09:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by injurai

that's for at work or possibly mobile readability.

It's a good thing people do that, I always try to give a good snippet of stuff for people to read.

I know. I get it. I'm not really complaining. I don't expect anyone on NeoGAF to leave this community to go read news when they're already so comfortable with this, but I'm just saying people get to read my work, and I don't see anything for it.

This thread generated only 72 hits on the original article:



Edit:

I linked to the wrong thread. This is what I originally had:


This thread generated only 130 hits on the original article:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511791
Last edited by JeffGrubb; 02-11-2013 at 09:36 PM.
RiccochetJ
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(02-11-2013, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by JeffGrubb

Yeah, but NeoGAF just copies and pastes entire articles in a thread from some sites. Sure, you guys post a source link, that doesn't produce any traffic really.

Yea, unfortunately I've seen it happen but it is stated in the TOS that it's not allowed and could get you banned.
JeffGrubb
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stumpokapow

1) You can't compare behaviour by thousands of individual non-professional members of a community who are at best sort of passively moderated to a small number of people supposedly acting in a professional fashion

2) "He did it first" is a pretty lame justification for anything :p

3) We do encourage people to excerpt article and use a teaser-type format. It's not 100% followed, but we do our best. I don't expect teasing actually results in a higher clickthrough rate, just a lower reading comprehension rate. There's no easy answer here, and products like Readability/Instapaper and just generally RSS syndication are a much bigger challenge than a site like GAF. Personally when I post articles on GAF, I almost always link a Readability link for the article, because it's cleaner, easier to read, and permanently archived. This almost certainly negatively impacts authors, but I don't see a better solution.

If you do see an article that's posted without excerpting in a way that's unfair, please let us know and we'll edit the thread.

I'm not justifying anything, and I'm not complaining. It is what it is.

It's bad journalism to just take something from a NeoGAF post without confirming it independently. And it's rude to not source a site like NeoGAF if it's where they saw it first.
JABEE
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:36 PM)
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I don't think the troublesome part of this event is copying from GAF and not citing it as a source. It's copying from GAF and posting it as news without doing a simple search that would have shown that this "news" was 5 months old.

GAF is a stringent enough news source on its own to get posted on major news outlets.

The way the process is supposed to work is that each site independently checks with their own sources before posting an item. A collection of outlets or one reputable outlet reporting something is supposed to actually mean something to readers of these outlets. They have devalued themselves as writers by bastardizing the process for hits and quick rewards. It is a breakdown that is present in all forms of internet reporting. There is no more room for quality.

Games journalism is just on the lower end of the spectrum when compared to the rest of the shoddy remains of the institution of journalism.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:36 PM)
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I read GAF daily and it is actually frustrating seeing "news" articles 3 days after I read it on GAF. lol

Most gaming sites have become too gimmicky anyways, with all their specials and lists they do to try and elicit hits. And IGN's path down of Forbes using contributor articles is very disappointing.
TheSpoiler
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(02-11-2013, 09:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by JeffGrubb

I know. I get it. I'm not really complaining. I don't expect anyone on NeoGAF to leave this community to go read news when they're already so comfortable with this, but I'm just saying people get to read my work, and I don't see anything for it.

This thread generated only 130 hits on the original article:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511791

You care more about hits than content?

Kotaku? Is that you!?
ipukespiders
Member
(02-11-2013, 09:36 PM)
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Time to create some fake news and see it spread?

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