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Fuzz Rez
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:04 PM)

"Japan’s Sony Corp. continues its financial restructuring plans and selling of unnecessary assets by announcing the sale of all of its shares, equal to a 13% stake, in the mobile game developer DeNA. Nomura Securities has already been named as the buyer, and will paying an estimated 40.9 billion yen (approx. $438 million).

As the 2012 fiscal year comes to a close at the end of this month, Sony will be recording the share sale as operating income in the fourth quarter, helping to boost the bottom line with the $438 million gain. A statement about the sale read “Sony is transforming its business portfolio and reorganizing its assets in an effort to strengthen its corporate structure. This sale is made as a part of that initiative.” The exact price of the 17,722,500 shares is to be revealed tomorrow, March 5th, while Sony expects the deal will be completed by March 7th."

http://ca.reuters.com/article/techno...92304S20130304

Is this even wise move? Seems like DeNa has only one way to go and that's up.
Fersis
It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
(03-04-2013, 01:08 PM)
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They need money asap that's why theyre selling their DeNa stakes.
Angelus Errare
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:08 PM)
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misread
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(03-04-2013, 01:09 PM)
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Had no idea they even had a stake in DeNa.

I wonder how much their Square Enix stake could get them lol?
ColdBlooder
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fersis

They need money asap that's why theyre selling their DeNa stakes.

We will propably soon be told how amazing if a strategy that is...

Sony is in dire need of cash, therefore is selling stuff. Its that simple.
kitch9
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fuzz Rez

http://ca.reuters.com/article/techno...92304S20130304

Is this even wise move? Seems like DeNa has only one way to go and that's up.

Sony is a slow lumbering giant of a company weighed down by its large portfolio of products and services which makes it hard to focus at the speed the market is moving.

Apple are making billions on a relatively tiny but highly focused portfolio which means they can move quickly and decisively with the market, it appears someone at Sony has finally woken up to this and is trimming the huge amounts of fat from the company.
Chuck Norris
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:10 PM)
What's a DeNa?
Striek
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:10 PM)
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Obviously no idea whether this is a smart business move, but I'm really curious whether these latest sales are going to raise their operating income for the year or if they're going to help them meet earlier targets they'd otherwise miss.
User Tron
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:11 PM)
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They'll need the money if they really want to announce that "two-ninty-nine" at E3.
Metalmurphy
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by ColdBlooder

We will propably soon be told how amazing if a strategy that is...

Sony is in dire need of cash, therefore is selling stuff. Its that simple.

If Sony was in dire need of cash they wouldn't be spending billions buying stuff Olympus, Gaikai, IME, Ericson, that ISP which name I forgot, etc.

It's called restructuring. It's that simple.
Fuzz Rez
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:12 PM)

Originally Posted by kitch9

Sony is a slow lumbering giant of a company weighed down by its large portfolio of products and services which makes it hard to focus at the speed the market is moving.

Apple are making billions on a relatively tiny but highly focused portfolio which means they can move quickly and decisively with the market, it appears someone at Sony has finally woken up to this and is trimming the huge amounts of fat from the company.

Owning stocks in other companies hardly has effect on their ability to react speed of the market.

Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

What's a DeNa?

It's Japanese Zynga. They also have popular bidding site ála ebay.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(03-04-2013, 01:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fuzz Rez

Owning stocks in other companies hardly has effect on their ability to react speed of the market.

Depends. Opportunity cost and all that. If Sony think they've a better use or need of the capital, then it costs them to leave it in that stock.
Chuck Norris
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:15 PM)

Originally Posted by Fuzz Rez

Owning stocks in other companies hardly has effect on their ability to react speed of the market.



It's Japanese Zynga.

Sounds like exactly the company you wouldn't want to be involved with looking at Zynga now
ColdBlooder
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

If Sony was in dire need of cash they wouldn't be spending billions buying stuff Olympus, Gaikai, IME, Ericson, that ISP which name I forgot, etc.

It's called restructuring. It's that simple.

Sony is in dire need for cash, haven't you seen their last financial report?

you can also "restructure" because youre in dire need of cash...
grimshawish
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:15 PM)

Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

If Sony was in dire need of cash they wouldn't be spending billions buying stuff Olympus, Gaikai, IME, Ericson, that ISP which name I forgot, etc.

It's called restructuring. It's that simple.

They need cash to do that. Its still a restructuring but the value of DeNa can be re-invested in another part of the company. Still freeing up assets.
Chuck Norris
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:17 PM)

Originally Posted by ColdBlooder

Sony is in dire need for cash, haven't you seen their last financial report?

you can also "restructure" because youre in dire need of cash...

Sony has 21 billion dollars in cash reserves. Have you seen their latest financial report?
Fuzz Rez
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:18 PM)

Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

Sounds like exactly the company you wouldn't want to be involved with looking at Zynga now

Zynga isn't in Japanese markets. Mobile and social gaming is still growing rapid rate in Japan and they are the top dog at the moment. Japan is only country where mobile data revenues exceed voice revenue.
noobie
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

Sounds like exactly the company you wouldn't want to be involved with looking at Zynga now

Second it..
Its a highly volatile business..

BUT ON The other hand..
they have Playstation Mobile.. Why not they have tens of games for Playstation Mobile ???
Chuck Norris
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:21 PM)

Originally Posted by Fuzz Rez

Zynga isn't in Japanese markets. Mobile and social gaming is still growing rapid rate in Japan and they are the top dog at the moment.

It's also potentially something that plummets quickly after peaking. One glance at Zynga would show that it might not be the safest company to have a continued investment in
klapauzius
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:24 PM)
Sony is really desperate.

I wonder if Sonys financial situation that seems going straightforward to bankcrupty, and has been discussed even in the mainstream media, will some people prevent from buying the PS4 or Vita. No one wants to buy a 400-500$/€ console if the manufacturer could be bankrupt a few month later.

By the way: Even if Sony would sell all they have they could not pay their debts. Sony as more than 130Billion Dollar debts. And because of their credit rating "junk-status" they even get no new credits now.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(03-04-2013, 01:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

Sony has 21 billion dollars in cash reserves. Have you seen their latest financial report?

You might be confusing their balance + committed credit access to their total reserves? Their last report has their total cash balance at $8.0bn, $6.5bn ex financial services, with unused credit lines of circa $9bn.

They're not in 'dire' need of cash from an operational point of view, but they clearly are trying to maintain a buffer of cash in the face of high recent (and planned?) m&a activity. They need the money to fun their investment activity/re-structuring while maintaining a reasonable cushion.
ColdBlooder
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

Sony has 21 billion dollars in cash reserves. Have you seen their latest financial report?

And they have BY FAR alot more debt than 21 billion dollars.
ManThatYouFear
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:27 PM)
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even if SONY went under, i'm sure other people would come running in to buy them out, your PS4 is safe as long as a decent company bought them out..

Apple...*shudders*
gaming_noob
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:27 PM)
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I've got $5000 to invest in the stock market, but I've never been involved before. I don't want to pay an investment advisor for advice since that amount is hardly worth their while. I see Sony getting a good boost this holiday with PS4...is this a "good" time to buy some of their stock? I'm also looking into Nintendo as well since they're pretty cheap now, and I can't see them going any lower.
Somnid
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:31 PM)
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Investments like these shouldn't be affected by restructuring (ideally). The reason they'd give this up is for quick cash, possibly to fund restructuring or they thought DeNa is not going to perform. Sony's refocusing on the mobile market as a part of their restructure, it would be hard to say that investment wasn't directly in line with where they want to go. Much like selling office buildings this isn't really trimming fat as much as trying to make your balance sheets look good.
Freki
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by klapauzius

Sony is really desperate.

I wonder if Sonys financial situation that seems going straightforward to bankcrupty, and has been discussed even in the mainstream media, will some people prevent from buying the PS4 or Vita. No one wants to buy a 400-500$/€ console if the manufacturer could be bankrupt a few month later.

By the way: Even if Sony would sell all they have they could not pay their debts. Sony as more than 130Billion Dollar debts. And because of their credit rating "junk-status" they even get no new credits now.

you heard it here first: Sony is going the way of the dinosaur - Do not buy Vita and PS4!!!


On a more serious note: I think it's about time for Sony to trim it's fat and refocus on the core buisness - and if this company is really comparable to Zynga then I can't see anything bad about selling them.
Fuzz Rez
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:33 PM)
edit. and if Sony plans to gain more ground in smartphone market wouldn't it only make sense to own part of DeNa?
Striek
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:35 PM)
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Found the answer to my question above:

As stated on February 7, 2013 in the announcement of Sony’s forecast for consolidated financial results for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2013, Sony has identified certain assets for possible sale as part of an initiative to transform its business portfolio and reorganize its assets. This sale was conducted as a part of that initiative. While this sale was anticipated and the potential gain on the sale was taken into account at the time of the forecast, Sony is currently reevaluating the aggregate impact of this sale and other factors on the forecast.

Neither added to forecast nor helping them hit a target they'd miss according to them. Same with the buildings.

Originally Posted by gaming_noob

I've got $5000 to invest in the stock market, but I've never been involved before. I don't want to pay an investment advisor for advice since that amount is hardly worth their while. I see Sony getting a good boost this holiday with PS4...is this a "good" time to buy some of their stock? I'm also looking into Nintendo as well since they're pretty cheap now, and I can't see them going any lower.

I don't think you should be investing money if you're asking for advice on Neogaf.

But no, the stock is already up 36% for the YTD, doesn't seem very good time to invest to me.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(03-04-2013, 01:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by klapauzius

By the way: Even if Sony would sell all they have they could not pay their debts. Sony as more than 130Billion Dollar debts. And because of their credit rating "junk-status" they even get no new credits now.

Luckily for them they're not obliged to pay their debts all at once.

Also, your last statement is not true. If they had to go to the credit markets, for credit, they'd have a cheaper or costlier time depending on the rating of credit agencies - I believe one of which has rated their debt as junk, vs a number of others who maintain an investment grade on Sony (for now). But they still have the support of their banks so the markets are not their only source of credit.
Gemüsepizza
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by klapauzius

Sony is really desperate.

I wonder if Sonys financial situation that seems going straightforward to bankcrupty, and has been discussed even in the mainstream media, will some people prevent from buying the PS4 or Vita. No one wants to buy a 400-500$/€ console if the manufacturer could be bankrupt a few month later.

What are you talking about?! Jesus. They are not going bankrupt. Have you seen their financial data in the recent time? They are recovering and have billions of cash. They won't go anywhere.

By the way: Even if Sony would sell all they have they could not pay their debts. Sony as more than 130Billion Dollar debts. And because of their credit rating "junk-status" they even get no new credits now.

Wrong. Either you are lying or you don't really have a clue what you are talking about.
klapauzius
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:39 PM)

Originally Posted by gofreak

Luckily for them they're not obliged to pay their debts all at once.

Of course not. But their debts grow every year since six years.
Fuzz Rez
Banned
(03-04-2013, 01:40 PM)

Originally Posted by Freki

you heard it here first: Sony is going the way of the dinosaur - Do not buy Vita and PS4!!!


On a more serious note: I think it's about time for Sony to trim it's fat and refocus on the core buisness - and if this company is really comparable to Zynga then I can't see anything bad about selling them.

It's not really comparable to Zynga since they have different main markets. Mobile gaming and social gaming is whole another best in Japan, especially mobile gaming. Not to mention gaming isn't only side of DeNa like with Zynga.

zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(03-04-2013, 01:41 PM)
Seems like a good idea. Get some cash in and get rid of a high flying asset. We saw what happened to Zynga so there is probably more downside than upside for DeNa.
meppi
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

Sony has 21 billion dollars in cash reserves. Have you seen their latest financial report?

In combination with your posts in the Forbes thread a couple of days ago, this is kinda funny to read.
Ploid 3.0
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:51 PM)
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I totally forgot Sony had some Square Enix shares. I wonder if they earned or lost by now. SE is bigger at least, so maybe it's earned.
zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(03-04-2013, 01:52 PM)

Originally Posted by klapauzius

Sony is really desperate.

I wonder if Sonys financial situation that seems going straightforward to bankcrupty, and has been discussed even in the mainstream media, will some people prevent from buying the PS4 or Vita. No one wants to buy a 400-500$/€ console if the manufacturer could be bankrupt a few month later.

By the way: Even if Sony would sell all they have they could not pay their debts. Sony as more than 130Billion Dollar debts. And because of their credit rating "junk-status" they even get no new credits now.

LOLOLOL

Total debt as outlined by Sony's financial statement: 1.39tn Yen, around $15.1bn
Total cash and marketable securities: 1.36tn Yen, around $14.8bn
Mario
Sidhe / PikPok
(03-04-2013, 01:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fuzz Rez

Is this even wise move? Seems like DeNa has only one way to go and that's up.

Hmmm well, the Japanese mobile publishers are spending a ton of cash trying to break into Western markets, but mostly aren't doing so well with that (at least relative to the investment and their domestic success).

Increases in stock valuation mainly rely on growth (and better than expected growth at that), so unless they can find a way to keep that growth strong they might discover going down is an option too.
Kagari
Crystal Bearer
(03-04-2013, 01:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ploid 3.0

I totally forgot Sony had some Square Enix shares. I wonder if they earned or lost by now. SE is bigger at least, so maybe it's earned.

I think they keep it for a reason.
M.D
Member
(03-04-2013, 01:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kagari

I think they keep it for a reason.

Sony buying Square Enix confirmed! You heard it here first =p

Seriously tho.. why do they keep it?
Diablo Rosso
Member
(03-04-2013, 02:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by gofreak

Had no idea they even had a stake in DeNa.

I wonder how much there Square Enix stake could get them lol?

If anything, Sony should probably increase their stake there.
meta4
Junior Member
(03-04-2013, 02:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by M.D

Sony buying Square Enix confirmed! You heard it here first =p

Next generation FF exclusive confirmed.
Busty
when Jesus ain't watching Kinect will watch over you
(03-04-2013, 02:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by klapauzius

By the way: Even if Sony would sell all they have they could not pay their debts. Sony as more than 130Billion Dollar debts. And because of their credit rating "junk-status" they even get no new credits now.

*raises eyebrow*
jcm
Member
(03-04-2013, 02:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by gaming_noob

I've got $5000 to invest in the stock market, but I've never been involved before. I don't want to pay an investment advisor for advice since that amount is hardly worth their while. I see Sony getting a good boost this holiday with PS4...is this a "good" time to buy some of their stock? I'm also looking into Nintendo as well since they're pretty cheap now, and I can't see them going any lower.

Sony is actually up quite a bit the past few months. You might want to wait a bit and see where it settles. Nintendo, like every other company, can absolutely go lower.

If you just want to play with the market and invest in companies you actually like, have at it. Personally, I think all three console makers' stock sucks, but as long as you don't need the money it can be fun to follow them. If you are looking for actual returns, you're almost certainly much better off in low cost index funds like vanguard's total market (vtsmx) or 500 (vfinx).
Napalm_Frank
Member
(03-04-2013, 02:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kagari

I think they keep it for a reason.

Noctis orgy?
Kyoufu
(03-04-2013, 02:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by M.D

Seriously tho.. why do they keep it?

Final Fantasy.
Donos
Member
(03-04-2013, 02:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by klapauzius

Sony is really desperate.

I wonder if Sonys financial situation that seems going straightforward to bankcrupty, and has been discussed even in the mainstream media, will some people prevent from buying the PS4 or Vita. No one wants to buy a 400-500$/€ console if the manufacturer could be bankrupt a few month later.

By the way: Even if Sony would sell all they have they could not pay their debts. Sony as more than 130Billion Dollar debts. And because of their credit rating "junk-status" they even get no new credits now.

I see you overpainting Sonys future very dark in different threads while saying that Ninty and Wii U are fine and will steamroll everything when the games arrive...

Sony bankrupt a few month after PS4 release? Please.
Sony is a huge corporation with many branches, which makes them hard to steer as a whole company so it's good that they are trimming fat and refocusing on their core values. Their gaming devision is one of the most important one. Vitas "failure" will make them more agressive with the PS4 i think (although the PS4 is to the Wii U like PS2 to Gamecube powerwise...)
Even their mobile branch seems to be one the rise (lol htc you fucked up).
Easy_Money
Junior Member
(03-04-2013, 02:10 PM)
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Sony trimming the fat for the summer. Smart move.
stryke
Member
(03-04-2013, 02:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by klapauzius

Sony is really desperate.

I wonder if Sonys financial situation that seems going straightforward to bankcrupty, and has been discussed even in the mainstream media, will some people prevent from buying the PS4 or Vita. No one wants to buy a 400-500$/€ console if the manufacturer could be bankrupt a few month later.

By the way: Even if Sony would sell all they have they could not pay their debts. Sony as more than 130Billion Dollar debts. And because of their credit rating "junk-status" they even get no new credits now.

I have no background in the stock market, shares, and the whatnot but even this sounds off to me.
klapauzius
Banned
(03-04-2013, 02:14 PM)

Originally Posted by Gemüsepizza

What are you talking about?! Jesus. They are not going bankrupt. Have you seen their financial data in the recent time? They are recovering and have billions of cash. They won't go anywhere.

...

Wrong. Either you are lying or you don't really have a clue what you are talking about.

Wow. You are fast to insult people. Better inform yourself. Sony has debts about 130 Billion dollar:

Interesting too:


The little spike at the end of 2012 happened because they sold buildings and lay off many employees.

You can read everywhere about it (some links after two minutes of googling):
How Sony Is Turning into a Ghost in Japan, Sayonara Sony, Sony Revival Under Hirai, Sonys Niedergang,Sony to Eliminate 10,000, Fitch cuts Sony debt ratings to "junk" status, Stocks Plumb New Depths, Worst-performing firms in 2012

But you don't have to read much just look at their financial reports and understand it.
GenericUserName
Banned
(03-04-2013, 02:15 PM)

Originally Posted by Fuzz Rez

edit. and if Sony plans to gain more ground in smartphone market wouldn't it only make sense to own part of DeNa?

Not if they can't reach the line due to running out of money. Pizza on Sunday is great, but not so much if you starve to death by Thursday.

Besides, the fact that DeNa is doing great is a good way to demand a premium price. If it did worse, they would get pretty close to bubkes. Faltering mobile entertainment companies are completely unatractive to potential investitors.

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