was this posted? i searched but couldn't find anything - lock/delete if it was.
most vice documentaries are posted here, but i didn't see this one. a short 30min one with a particular emphasis on florida.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZO30lPGm4
After so many recent mass shootings, we decided to travel to Florida to see why so many Americans are stockpiling firearms. Weeks before the almost unfathomable mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, VICE editor-in-chief Rocco Castoro visited Florida to dive headfirst into its byzantine firearms laws and discover why his home state was the first in the nation to issue over one million concealed weapons permits. Through interviews and time on the range with veterans, law enforcement officials, and gun-store owners, VICE digs deep into the gun debate and uncovers many troubling revelations along the way. Oh, we also use a Craigslist-like site to arrange for the purchase of a handgun at 10 PM in the parking lot of a big-box hardware store. And it's all 100-percent legal. Welcome to Florida.
i live in australia - is this accurate?
I watched this a few weeks back. It's really quite boring.
but if obama takes our guns, who's going to protect us from the rapists, atheists and terrorists?
Not really a fan of vice but I'll give it a watch. Gun control is a massive debate and almost everyone has a strong opinion, having said that I hope this thread stays civil.
EDIT: Just finished watching. Before I talk about it I'd like to say I live in the UK where you jump through a bunch of loopholes in order to own a gun and one of reasons that you cannot own a gun is self defense. If you put that down as a reason on an application then you will be denied. In my opinion everyone has the right to defend themselves, that means they have the right to access and use weapons to defend themselves from not only criminals but governments and other countries too. I agree with the background check system and as the shopkeeper in the video said, he refuses to sell to people who are obviously buying them for other people or acting suspicious. That's exactly the kind of self control that is needed, not arbitrary restrictions on magazine size or bans on "assault weapons". In addition to that a lot of people hurt themselves from not knowing basic gun safety, they talked about how scary it was seeing a 12 year old shoot but he had been trained by his father, taught gun safety and was responsible, that's exactly the kind of people that should have guns. As for the part about buying a gun at 10PM in a parking lot I couldn't help but feel it was put in as a scare tactic, as Dead Man said you can do that with a car where the person who purchases it has no idea how to drive and crashes causing dozens of deaths due to a pile up.
EDIT: Just finished watching. Before I talk about it I'd like to say I live in the UK where you jump through a bunch of loopholes in order to own a gun and one of reasons that you cannot own a gun is self defense. If you put that down as a reason on an application then you will be denied. In my opinion everyone has the right to defend themselves, that means they have the right to access and use weapons to defend themselves from not only criminals but governments and other countries too. I agree with the background check system and as the shopkeeper in the video said, he refuses to sell to people who are obviously buying them for other people or acting suspicious. That's exactly the kind of self control that is needed, not arbitrary restrictions on magazine size or bans on "assault weapons". In addition to that a lot of people hurt themselves from not knowing basic gun safety, they talked about how scary it was seeing a 12 year old shoot but he had been trained by his father, taught gun safety and was responsible, that's exactly the kind of people that should have guns. As for the part about buying a gun at 10PM in a parking lot I couldn't help but feel it was put in as a scare tactic, as Dead Man said you can do that with a car where the person who purchases it has no idea how to drive and crashes causing dozens of deaths due to a pile up.
Last edited by Willypiggy; 03-12-2013 at 01:58 PM.
Haven't watched it because I'm at work, but the bolded is how I sold my car last time, because I didn't want people to know where it was garaged if the guy didn't buy it. Well, it wasn't 10pm. Seems like a very dramatic telling of a simple face to face gun sale. It may or may not be something you agree with but it is certainly a bit alarmist in wording.was this posted? i searched but couldn't find anything - lock/delete if it was.
most vice documentaries are posted here, but i didn't see this one. a short 30min one with a particular emphasis on florida.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZO30lPGm4
After so many recent mass shootings, we decided to travel to Florida to see why so many Americans are stockpiling firearms. Weeks before the almost unfathomable mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, VICE editor-in-chief Rocco Castoro visited Florida to dive headfirst into its byzantine firearms laws and discover why his home state was the first in the nation to issue over one million concealed weapons permits. Through interviews and time on the range with veterans, law enforcement officials, and gun-store owners, VICE digs deep into the gun debate and uncovers many troubling revelations along the way. Oh, we also use a Craigslist-like site to arrange for the purchase of a handgun at 10 PM in the parking lot of a big-box hardware store. And it's all 100-percent legal. Welcome to Florida.
i live in australia - is this accurate?
I own guns, but at this point I can't imagine any realistic scenario where I willingly go to Florida or anywhere in the south due to how many concealed permits are likely given to fucking psychos.
I'm not really worried about anybody with a CCW, worried more about the random kids that picked a gun up for $20 off some other kid. The This American Life series on Chicago schools a couple weeks ago was mind blowing.Originally Posted by LuchaShaq
I own guns, but at this point I can't imagine any realistic scenario where I willingly go to Florida or anywhere in the south due to how many concealed permits are likely given to fucking psychos.
I just find it incredible that you can buy guns at your local supermarket. This is a total anathema to us living in the UK. I have never seen a gun (besides the security police at aiports), let alone touch one. I have been to the States on 5 occasions and loved every visit, the people are so friendly (bar the impatient motorists in San Fran!) it just doesn't seem it should be a gun owning culture.
Record amounts of concealed carry premits issued in Minnesota the last couple of months. People are only getting "gun craz"ier.
You probably aren't outside of major cities when you visit the states. And I'm not sure how friendliness correlates to owning a firearm.I just find it incredible that you can buy guns at your local supermarket. This is a total anathema to us living in the UK. I have never seen a gun (besides the security police at aiports), let alone touch one. I have been to the States on 5 occasions and loved every visit, the people are so friendly (bar the impatient motorists in San Fran!) it just doesn't seem it should be a gun owning culture.
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
(03-12-2013, 02:43 PM)
I'm not a gun guy at all but I gotta admit I get a bit of joy from Brits being so squeamish over them.
Nothing strange about it. There's been a very open push for radical gun control and CC permits don't go up in cost with demand unlike actual firearms have. Now's the worst time to buy a firearm, but the probably the best time to get a CC permit.Originally Posted by The Culture Vulture
Didn't mean to say there was (hence the quotes) though I do think the fact that they have went up so much since Sandy Hook is a bit strange.
I live in central Arkansas, and the gun craziness is off the charts. Every gun store in this city of 250k+ is doing record business, to the point that some stay sold out quite often. I overheard a coworker just yesterday lamenting that the Glock counter at a local gun store was completely sold out (they usually carry 50+ handguns at any one time).
Ammo is even more scarce. There are lines that form in the mornings at places like Academy Sports in order to be first in line to buy ammo, which is limited to one box per person, and sells out in minutes. All of it, guns and ammo, has inflated prices due to demand.
Just down the road from where I work (which is in the upscale part of town), there was a bank robbery that turned shoot-out, and a guy that happened to be pumping gas nearby returned fire with his own CCW firearm.
That's the way it is, around here.
Ammo is even more scarce. There are lines that form in the mornings at places like Academy Sports in order to be first in line to buy ammo, which is limited to one box per person, and sells out in minutes. All of it, guns and ammo, has inflated prices due to demand.
Just down the road from where I work (which is in the upscale part of town), there was a bank robbery that turned shoot-out, and a guy that happened to be pumping gas nearby returned fire with his own CCW firearm.
That's the way it is, around here.
Not really, you got the president and vp on national tv talking about tigter gun control, of course it's going to cause a rush of folks to run out and buy up what they can before it potentially goes away. Lot of folks who never even owned one are picking them up in record numbers simply because it was something they intended to get someday, but are now motivated to do so before potential bansOriginally Posted by The Culture Vulture
Didn't mean to say there was (hence the quotes) though I do think the fact that they have went up so much since Sandy Hook is a bit strange.
A lot of the proposed gun legislation is to go to vote this week. Hopefully the knee jerk purchasers let the demand go down so prices go back down.Originally Posted by Diseased Yak
I live in central Arkansas, and the gun craziness is off the charts. Every gun store in this city of 250k+ is doing record business, to the point that some stay sold out quite often. I overheard a coworker just yesterday lamenting that the Glock counter at a local gun store was completely sold out (they usually carry 50+ handguns at any one time).
Ammo is even more scarce. There are lines that form in the mornings at places like Academy Sports in order to be first in line to buy ammo, which is limited to one box per person, and sells out in minutes. All of it, guns and ammo, has inflated prices due to demand.
Just down the road from where I work (which is in the upscale part of town), there was a bank robbery that turned shoot-out, and a guy that happened to be pumping gas nearby returned fire with his own CCW firearm.
That's the way it is, around here.
Do you often have bank robbery shootouts in your neck of the woods?
Originally Posted by Choke on the Magic
Nothing strange about it. There's been a very open push for radical gun control and CC permits don't go up in cost with demand unlike actual firearms have. Now's the worst time to buy a firearm, but the probably the best time to get a CC permit.
Is there concealed carry bans or handgun bans being debated?Originally Posted by BattleMonkey
Not really, you got the president and vp on national tv talking about tigter gun control, of course it's going to cause a rush of folks to run out and buy up what they can before it potentially goes away. Lot of folks who never even owned one are picking them up in record numbers simply because it was something they intended to get someday, but are now motivated to do so before potential bans
I don't think many people in the UK are squeamish regarding guns, I just think the vast majority would rather our stringent gun laws especially when we look at whats happening in the States.Originally Posted by worldrevolution
I'm not a gun guy at all but I gotta admit I get a bit of joy from Brits being so squeamish over them.
Nope, first one that I know in my area. We have near-daily bank robberies it seems, but none with shootouts. Was just worth mentioning because a CCW owner nearby returned fire. I understand he is facing prosecution for it, but I never heard if it went anywhere or not.Originally Posted by Choke on the Magic
A lot of the proposed gun legislation is to go to vote this week. Hopefully the knee jerk purchasers let the demand go down so prices go back down.
Do you often have bank robbery shootouts in your neck of the woods?
I meant in general that's the way it is around here, with the crazy gun-buying. Hopefully it'll calm down but so far shows no signs of it.
Not at the moment. Right now the focus is all about the AR and high cap mags plus expanded background checks and increased penalties for illegal gun trafficking.Originally Posted by The Culture Vulture
Is there concealed carry bans or handgun bans being debated?
Did the CCW owner just decide to get involved or were they shooting at him? If he just threw himself in the situation that's pretty dumb.Nope, first one that I know in my area. We have near-daily bank robberies it seems, but none with shootouts. Was just worth mentioning because a CCW owner nearby returned fire. I understand he is facing prosecution for it, but I never heard if it went anywhere or not.
I meant in general that's the way it is around here, with the crazy gun-buying. Hopefully it'll calm down but so far shows no signs of it.
Last edited by Choke on the Magic; 03-12-2013 at 03:04 PM.
Some of the ammo capacity limits would effectively ban various types of handguns with higher capacities. It also causes ammo buy ups which then has folks worrying about not having ammo on hand so everyone is buying up ammo. It's all fear of course so even though rifles might be the target, it creates local fears beyond the national level at what a certain area might do like Chicago or NY laws.Originally Posted by The Culture Vulture
Is there concealed carry bans or handgun bans being debated?
Canada is doing pretty good and we allow people to own tons more stuff. Just as Obama was elected someone flipped the switch at the border and now the US exports .50 cal rifles to Canada. Been debating at picking up a Barrett for a while now but its like 5 dollars a round.I don't think many people in the UK are squeamish regarding guns, I just think the vast majority would rather our stringent gun laws especially when we look at whats happening in the States.
Decisions. Decisions.
Yeah, the recent gun craze in the US has made me not want to visit or go vacation there anymore.
Could I ask anyone who lives in the USA and owns/purchases guns, is it primarily for hunting or protection? Do you find the allure around guns similar to that of cars (for car hobbyists)?
for me it was a matter o a hobby and protection.Originally Posted by Volotaire
Could I ask anyone who lives in the USA and owns/purchases guns, is it primarily for hunting or protection? Do you find the allure around guns similar to that of cars (for car hobbyists)?
I live in southern california, not doing no hunting around here.
It's not really like the wild west around here despite what the media might make it sound like with idiots walking around with assault rifles. You would likely never see a gun in the US outside of one on a cop when visiting.Yeah, the recent gun craze in the US has made me not want to visit or go vacation there anymore.
was this posted? i searched but couldn't find anything - lock/delete if it was.
most vice documentaries are posted here, but i didn't see this one. a short 30min one with a particular emphasis on florida.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZO30lPGm4
After so many recent mass shootings, we decided to travel to Florida to see why so many Americans are stockpiling firearms. Weeks before the almost unfathomable mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, VICE editor-in-chief Rocco Castoro visited Florida to dive headfirst into its byzantine firearms laws and discover why his home state was the first in the nation to issue over one million concealed weapons permits. Through interviews and time on the range with veterans, law enforcement officials, and gun-store owners, VICE digs deep into the gun debate and uncovers many troubling revelations along the way. Oh, we also use a Craigslist-like site to arrange for the purchase of a handgun at 10 PM in the parking lot of a big-box hardware store. And it's all 100-percent legal. Welcome to Florida.
i live in australia - is this accurate?
I particularly like how Florida warns everyone entering that Voldemort's the governor.
I collect weapons from WWII. So it's about the history for me. I also have a FFL which allows me to purchase full auto weapons. I don't use them for home defense or hunting. I don't even keep them at my home. Purely for shooting the shit outta something at the range.Originally Posted by Volotaire
Could I ask anyone who lives in the USA and owns/purchases guns, is it primarily for hunting or protection? Do you find the allure around guns similar to that of cars (for car hobbyists)?
unniversal ID being mandatory is the 1st sensible step that is ballanced enough to apease both sides
if you need to register a vehicle, why not a firearm?
New York is safer than all European capitals. You have more changes of getting mugged in Paris, London, Madrid and Rome than ever getting aproached in NYC.
if you need to register a vehicle, why not a firearm?
the US is a big country with lots of variety. New York City is relatively safe for tourists, I felt right at home when visiting the Big Apple four seperate times.Yeah, the recent gun craze in the US has made me not want to visit or go vacation there anymore.
New York is safer than all European capitals. You have more changes of getting mugged in Paris, London, Madrid and Rome than ever getting aproached in NYC.
Last edited by gutter_trash; 03-12-2013 at 03:35 PM.
Even the state is the shape of a uzi (sort of). Anyway Florida - it's home to my greatest childhood memories, went on holiday there 3 times. I was shocked when I grew up how crazy parts of the state were.
Edit spelling..damn phone
Edit spelling..damn phone
Do you shoot the ww2 weapons? Or are they mostly antiques?I collect weapons from WWII. So it's about the history for me. I also have a FFL which allows me to purchase full auto weapons. I don't use them for home defense or hunting. I don't even keep them at my home. Purely for shooting the shit outta something at the range.
It's all three for myself. Hunting, and protection mainly, but to truly care for firearms properly it become a hobby. I have a C&R FFL so I can collect old antique firearms. That's the hobby side of it for me.Originally Posted by Volotaire
Could I ask anyone who lives in the USA and owns/purchases guns, is it primarily for hunting or protection? Do you find the allure around guns similar to that of cars (for car hobbyists)?
Fixed it, specifically to spark a debate. Sticking to the concealed weapon permits....I'm really sick and tired of people talking about "protection" when there's rarely if ever a reason or cause to pull out a gun and threaten to, or follow through on that threat, to KILL (in all likelihood) someone.Originally Posted by Choke on the Magic
There's nothing crazy about wanting to have the option to make yourself feel more secure.
Unless everyone wants to be a hero. And if you think carrying a gun gives you the ability to capitalize on that moment and be a hero...then you're not carrying it for personal protection, are you?
Yeah but I'm just not comfortable being in a place where you're surrounded by people with weapons, whatever their intention may be.Originally Posted by BattleMonkey
It's not really like the wild west around here despite what the media might make it sound like with idiots walking around with assault rifles. You would likely never see a gun in the US outside of one on a cop when visiting.
Yeah that's true. New York has an exceptionally low crime rate for a city of it's size.Originally Posted by gutter_trash
unniversal ID being mandatory is the 1st sensible step that is ballanced enough to apease both sides
if you need to register a vehicle, why not a firearm?
the US is a big country with lots of variety. New York City is relatively safe for tourists, I felt right at home when visiting the Big Apple four seperate times.
New York is safer than all European capitals. You have more changes of getting mugged in Paris, London, Madrid and Rome than ever getting aproached in NYC.
This is a model of responsible gun ownership.I collect weapons from WWII. So it's about the history for me. I also have a FFL which allows me to purchase full auto weapons. I don't use them for home defense or hunting. I don't even keep them at my home. Purely for shooting the shit outta something at the range.
I'm no hunter. I like shooting guns just for fun, at targets. I admire the skill of it, and the practice of getting better. It's definitely a hobby for me.Originally Posted by Volotaire
Could I ask anyone who lives in the USA and owns/purchases guns, is it primarily for hunting or protection? Do you find the allure around guns similar to that of cars (for car hobbyists)?
I guess you could say protection, somewhat. I keep a .45 in my nightstand by my bed, but I'd only use it as a last resort/me or them scenario.
Nice circular argument you have presented. I think it is quite possible for someone to want a gun for protection, and recognise that it will probably never be needed, and also to be happy about that fact.Originally Posted by Omegasquash
Fixed it, specifically to spark a debate. Sticking to the concealed weapon permits....I'm really sick and tired of people talking about "protection" when there's rarely if ever a reason or cause to pull out a gun and threaten to, or follow through on that threat, to KILL (in all likelihood) someone.
Unless everyone wants to be a hero. And if you think carrying a gun gives you the ability to capitalize on that moment and be a hero...then you're not carrying it for personal protection, are you?
Originally Posted by Omegasquash
Fixed it, specifically to spark a debate. Sticking to the concealed weapon permits....I'm really sick and tired of people talking about "protection" when there's rarely if ever a reason or cause to pull out a gun and threaten to, or follow through on that threat, to KILL (in all likelihood) someone.
Unless everyone wants to be a hero. And if you think carrying a gun gives you the ability to capitalize on that moment and be a hero...then you're not carrying it for personal protection, are you?
You're making the assumption that I or any other CCW holder would pull our weapon for any other reason than to protect ourselves and/or our families. If you think "being a hero" is the intent or purpose of having a CCW you don't need to have one. So you might want to try another angle.Originally Posted by Omegasquash
Fixed it, specifically to spark a debate. Sticking to the concealed weapon permits....I'm really sick and tired of people talking about "protection" when there's rarely if ever a reason or cause to pull out a gun and threaten to, or follow through on that threat, to KILL (in all likelihood) someone.
Unless everyone wants to be a hero. And if you think carrying a gun gives you the ability to capitalize on that moment and be a hero...then you're not carrying it for personal protection, are you?
Yes.Originally Posted by The Culture Vulture
no
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...5_story_4.html
how does the number of guns per citizen (I'd say registered guns, but apparently that's not necessary in the US) relate to the number of gun crimes?I know that Switzerland has a relatively large number of gun owners and a low number of gun crimes, but that might be an exception
Last edited by Violet_0; 03-12-2013 at 04:00 PM.
I think his point was more that there are plenty of places in the US where you wouldn't be "surrounded by people with weapons". I live in the Northeast, have for my whole life (33 years), and I hardly ever see anyone with a gun who isn't a cop. Now, I'm not claiming that's typical everywhere in the country, but there are plenty of places in the US where guns just aren't that common.Yeah but I'm just not comfortable being in a place where you're surrounded by people with weapons, whatever their intention may be.
Yeah that's true. New York has an exceptionally low crime rate for a city of it's size.
Edit: Also should add that even Florida is such a big state it's hard to generalize. My parents live down there most of the year now, and I've been down tons of times without ever seeing a gun. Again, not saying it's typical of Florida, just saying that even there it's not a homogeneous sea of weapons or anything.
Last edited by p2535748; 03-12-2013 at 04:00 PM.