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Yoh Yoshinari's Little Witch Academia: "Awesome free cartoon on Youtube"

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Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
as opposed to super smooth Disney stuff.

Are you talking about the totally rotoscoped out the anus stuff?

And Pepboy I'd suggest somehow... cleansing your brain of those hang ups lest you never enjoy animation again. It is backbreaking brain-labour at the best of times.
 

Azure J

Member
So THIS is where those neat avatars were coming from. Will give it a shot in a few. There's some charmingly 90s era animation going on in the gifs in the OP.
 

Theonik

Member
When I say "low framerate", I mean "fewer inbetween frames". So the usual slightly stuttery animation you get in anime, as opposed to super smooth Disney stuff.
The whole thing was animated on twos so it has a much much higher frame count to 99% of anime out there. I thought it looked super smooth for the most part.
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
I'm a little lazy to create / search my own gifs but these are representative of what I mean. In the first, she is spinning around a broom. It seems about 3-4 frames (maybe it's 5-6) with these extra bits thrown in, supposedly to give a sense of illusion but my eyes just pick up on them right away.

Also in the second picture her head repeats the same animation 2-3 times, and it's pretty jarring there as well.

There are other examples as well.
When going up/down the tower, anytime something happens with just the sky as background
My "wat" was more directed towards your "low budget" comment. Little Witch Academia is the opposite of low budget in any regard.
I admit it did tell a complete story in 26 minutes and was very efficient on time. But I don't think the revelations were that interesting
(As soon as I saw the teacher smiling/standing there when the girl was talking about the chariot thing, I was pretty sure the teacher was chariot girl, else why zoom in on the teacher?)
.
What's interesting about the revelations, to me, is how Yoshinari doesn't beat you again and again with them.
Shiny Chariot's identity is never outright told to the audience, but instead is given away through some clever visual cues. Similarly, Diana's admiration for Shiny Chariot really stands out on rewatch, particularly with one of the early Magical Festa cuts.
It's efficient storytelling that doesn't waste any time with unneeded exposition.
 

Branduil

Member
I'm a little lazy to create / search my own gifs but these are representative of what I mean. In the first, she is spinning around a broom. It seems about 3-4 frames (maybe it's 5-6) with these extra bits thrown in, supposedly to give a sense of illusion but my eyes just pick up on them right away.

Also in the second picture her head repeats the same animation 2-3 times, and it's pretty jarring there as well.

There are other examples as well.
When going up/down the tower, anytime something happens with just the sky as background

Well, this short had a much larger budget than the vast majority of anime, so I can't imagine you like much anime if this looked cheap to you. Anime is a limited animation medium, which means they take a lot of shortcuts because it's just too expensive otherwise. But within that medium several generations of great artists have spent decades honing their craft; it's not just about how many frames you have, but how you use them. On the extreme end of this you have Mitsuo Iso, who doesn't allow inbetweeners to touch his work, resulting in a low framerate, but the tradeoff is that every frame is a keyframe, so he has total control of every nuance of the animation.
 

BluWacky

Member
Are you talking about the totally rotoscoped out the anus stuff?

Nah, I think they'd stopped doing that by the 80s and 90s when there's still many more inbetween frames than the average anime.

Theonik said:
The whole thing was animated on twos so it has a much much higher frame count to 99% of anime out there. I thought it looked super smooth for the most part.

I agree - I thought it looked great and in general very smooth, but then I'm used to the overall super-low frame count in anime so by comparison of course it looks great! I'm merely trying to understand where Pepboy's coming from because I thought the animation in LWA was super interesting and creative.
 

Pepboy

Member
The animation is goddamn AMAZING and the number one reason to watch this. Yes, the framerate is lower than western animation. It's anime, you come to expect this. The big deal is that the keyframes are incredible.
The cartooniness is an asset. I didn't want to see characters dying and I didn't mind the outlandish slapstick. It's total escapism by design, and it works.

Also there actually is an upskirt shot

Ah okay. I think maybe it's the energy in the series that, combined with the framerate, makes it a bit jarring for me. I had no such problem with Cowboy Bebop, perhaps because the characters move at a more natural speed. I can see this as enjoyable for those seeking escapism.

I can't speak for anyone else but the main joy of Little Witch Academia for me was how marvelous it looked. As someone who likes cartoons I thought it looked fantastic. Being in 2D animation made it even better. The story itself wasn't anything remarkable but it was well-told, sweet, and fun and that's why I enjoyed it.

I'm not sure what you expected in terms of world building or plot from this film. There's a limit to what you can do in 26 minutes. Yoshinari chose to make an incredibly fun and well-animated tribute to the cartoons that he loves. I'm plenty happy with that.

Edit: beaten like one of Sucy's victims.

Thank you for your thoughts. Based on the comments earlier about it "saving" anime, being some of the best , etc., I naturally started comparing it to Cowboy Bebop's or Gurren Lagann's first episodes. Both of those gave me insights into really interesting worlds/characters that I wanted to learn more about in roughly 22 minutes. However I can see from a "cartoon" or "fun" level how this might be nice.

This is all true. There is nothing novel about any of the plot elements at all.



This is also true. The spells did what you would expect. I'm not sure that's a "negative", though.

Remember, though, that this short is designed as a training project for young animators of the future. I don't think it's ever been advertised as some kind of revolutionary piece of storytelling.



Well, it is a cartoon. I can understand this being a negative for you, of course, but I don't think it ever really set out to be a life-and-death kind of story. People don't die all the time in all sorts of media, particularly something like this which is perfect for kids to watch.



I think this is probably a stylistic thing that you don't like. You've obviously watched anime before - do you watch anime TV series or just movies? What would you say is an example of high budget animation in anime?

Regardless of the "low framerate" or whatever, it's the inventiveness of the keyframes and movement that makes Little Witch Academia stand out really. Perhaps it's because it's "cartoony" that you don't like it?



I think you're missing what people liked about it. It is precisely the vibrant colours, music etc. that people are enjoying so much. It's not complex, but it's fun and entertaining and nicely animated. That's what's so good - not the Harry Potter/Worst Witch knockoff story and characters.

Thank you for such indepth comments! I wasn't aware that this was created to train young animators. It probably was not advertised as a revolution but reading through this thread/impressions, that is kind of what I started to expect. Of course that is my own mistake.

I agree that not all shows need to feature life-or-death, and that for kids this show would be great. As an adult, given the not-so-interesting world or characters, I was really looking for something to make the short stand out while watching. It followed some tropes pretty closely so I hoped it would subvert the expectations, starting with a sharp and unexpected death which would acknowledge "yes, this is different". As a training exercise for young animators, this is above and beyond. However I don't know why it's being heralded as the second coming.

I have watched anime before, mostly TV series, though some movies as well. As I mentioned above, Cowboy Bebop seemed high budget to me. The dashboard on the ships is incredibly detailed and felt "real". Gurren Lagann ep 1 is along the same lines, less realistic but still capable of "oh wow". I think you are right that it's the cartoony aspect that I didn't enjoy (as I was searching for something besides color/energy to set it apart from other anime).
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Cowboy Bebop is rotoscoped out the wazoo too. Sounds like you're not a fan of 'creative' inbetweening, which is honestly what attracts me to any animation more than any other in an age of CGI everywhere.
 

Pepboy

Member
Well, this short had a much larger budget than the vast majority of anime, so I can't imagine you like much anime if this looked cheap to you. Anime is a limited animation medium, which means they take a lot of shortcuts because it's just too expensive otherwise. But within that medium several generations of great artists have spent decades honing their craft; it's not just about how many frames you have, but how you use them. On the extreme end of this you have Mitsuo Iso, who doesn't allow inbetweeners to touch his work, resulting in a low framerate, but the tradeoff is that every frame is a keyframe, so he has total control of every nuance of the animation.

Thanks for the Mitsuo Iso link!

I like some anime, as well as other animation. I usually watch all the Oscar nominated shorts as well as stuff on shortoftheweek.com in addition to what makes it through the AnimeGAF filter. I really enjoyed Cowboy Bebop, Gurren Lagann, Honey and Clover, among others.

I didn't mean to make it into a framerate pissing contest. In some ways, my favorite thing about animation is that it is low budget. Specifically, that given the low budget, the creators are able to take more risks and create new worlds, new ideas, new characters that have never been seen before. With traditional films or TV shows, creating a world that is far different from our own is expensive. A police drama is far cheaper to produce given how little needs to be changed.

Based on my reading of Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud and Story by Robert McKee, I have come to the following thoughts:
  • Books are "cheapest" to produce, resulting in a large variety, but time consuming (LOTR movie shorter than reading the book) and rely on imagination
  • Static Comics are relatively cheap as well and are quick to consume (efficient at conveying information), but ultimately limited by lack of popular interest
  • Theatre/plays are somewhat cheap to create but also typically rely on imagination
  • Live-action TV/Film requires relatively little imagination, but expensive


In the same way that Ghost in the Shell predated the Matrix (I know they're actually very different), animation has the potential to be "cutting-edge" in storytelling compared to other visual media.

But in the absence of an interesting or engaging world, my mind starts focusing on the details. And that's ultimately probably why it seemed low budget.


Conclusions:

Based on the great feedback from others above, I realize now that:

  1. This show seems to be enjoyed for its youthful fun, energy, vibrancy
  2. Compared to most anime it seems more engaging, better animated
  3. Effectively tells a story in a short time with good music and pacing

None of those are "enough" for me to consider this a great short, because I am mostly looking for creative and imaginative stories that surprise me, and am willing to overlook the animation flaws. Given that I felt LWA failed to surprise me, I assumed people liked it so much for the animation itself, hence why I started looking for (and found) flaws that I probably would not have noticed in a more intellectually engaging show.

Hopefully in this process of discovery I did not offend anyone. I am glad you enjoyed the short and thank you for helping me understand why. Please let me know if I misunderstood something.
 

Pepboy

Member
Cowboy Bebop is rotoscoped out the wazoo too. Sounds like you're not a fan of 'creative' inbetweening, which is honestly what attracts me to any animation more than any other in an age of CGI everywhere.

I think you are right. Also please see my last post, I agree Cowboy Bebop probably would also not stand up to extreme scrutiny but never felt a need to evaluate it that way. Here I started to since I was never drawn into the world itself. That being said, I'd still encourage my (hypothetical) child to watch this than most animated shows.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
iirc they used reference material but didn't rotoscope.

Nah, it was rotoscope city for the music bits (understandable) and also at least a fight or two which looked ultra clumsy as a result :(
 

7Th

Member
Nah, it was rotoscope city for the music bits (understandable) and also at least a fight or two which looked ultra clumsy as a result :(

You probably read that they used rotoscope in the movie and it's true... but only the OP of the movie used rotoscope. The actual movie didn't use rotoscope at all, just references.

[*]
Characters follow tropes pretty closely. Completely flat, except maybe Sucy.

Actually, a few characters aren't flat by default. Diana is multidimensional just by virtue of being a tsundere.

iirc they used reference material but didn't rotoscope.

According to Bahi, some animators did use rotoscope. He said it with the usual "I wouldn't do it, but I have nothing against people that do!" disclaimer.
 

7Th

Member
Another detail: there are no "faceless background characters" in LWA. All the classmates have unique designs and small quirks that make them feel lively and add believability to the setting:

i81q4zCarjR2T.gif

tumblr_inline_mkus159nUL1qz4rgp.jpg

tumblr_inline_mkus1rwgu91qz4rgp.jpg


Also: classmates are consistently the same across the movie; from the start when they're in the classroom.
 

abic

Banned
Thanks for the Mitsuo Iso link!

I like some anime, as well as other animation. I usually watch all the Oscar nominated shorts as well as stuff on shortoftheweek.com in addition to what makes it through the AnimeGAF filter. I really enjoyed Cowboy Bebop, Gurren Lagann, Honey and Clover, among others.

I didn't mean to make it into a framerate pissing contest. In some ways, my favorite thing about animation is that it is low budget. Specifically, that given the low budget, the creators are able to take more risks and create new worlds, new ideas, new characters that have never been seen before. With traditional films or TV shows, creating a world that is far different from our own is expensive. A police drama is far cheaper to produce given how little needs to be changed.

Based on my reading of Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud and Story by Robert McKee, I have come to the following thoughts:
  • Books are "cheapest" to produce, resulting in a large variety, but time consuming (LOTR movie shorter than reading the book) and rely on imagination
  • Static Comics are relatively cheap as well and are quick to consume (efficient at conveying information), but ultimately limited by lack of popular interest
  • Theatre/plays are somewhat cheap to create but also typically rely on imagination
  • Live-action TV/Film requires relatively little imagination, but expensive


In the same way that Ghost in the Shell predated the Matrix (I know they're actually very different), animation has the potential to be "cutting-edge" in storytelling compared to other visual media.

But in the absence of an interesting or engaging world, my mind starts focusing on the details. And that's ultimately probably why it seemed low budget.


Conclusions:

Based on the great feedback from others above, I realize now that:

  1. This show seems to be enjoyed for its youthful fun, energy, vibrancy
  2. Compared to most anime it seems more engaging, better animated
  3. Effectively tells a story in a short time with good music and pacing

None of those are "enough" for me to consider this a great short, because I am mostly looking for creative and imaginative stories that surprise me, and am willing to overlook the animation flaws. Given that I felt LWA failed to surprise me, I assumed people liked it so much for the animation itself, hence why I started looking for (and found) flaws that I probably would not have noticed in a more intellectually engaging show.

Hopefully in this process of discovery I did not offend anyone. I am glad you enjoyed the short and thank you for helping me understand why. Please let me know if I misunderstood something.

Are you a graduate student with too much spare time on your hands? Nobody gives a shit, just enjoy it.
 

trejo

Member
Are you a graduate student with too much spare time on your hands? Nobody gives a shit, just enjoy it.

I don't agree with him either but he disclosed his reasoning and clarified his stance once explanations were given. No need to be rude.
 

7Th

Member
I don't agree with him either but he disclosed his reasoning and clarified his stance once explanations were given. No need to be rude.

I agree with trejo. Besides,
duckroll is AnimeGAF's official rude poster.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
It's like upskirting a WoW model.
 

cjkeats

Member
Showed it to a friend toady, she wasn't impressed, or unimpressed. Kinda neutral on the whole thing.
Then we watched Wolf Childern and she bawled her eyes out.
 

/XX/

Member
iirc they used reference material but didn't rotoscope.
Nah, it was rotoscope city for the music bits (understandable) and also at least a fight or two which looked ultra clumsy as a result :(
Yeah, in that sense I think this article commented/implied that the captured video of the performances was used as more than just reference for the animators:

臨場感あふれる演奏シーン 『坂道のアポロン』アニメ制作の舞台裏を公開 (菅野よう子) ニュース-ORICON STYLE-
http://www.oricon.co.jp/news/movie/2008951/full/
 

PaulloDEC

Member
To explain it for non-anime fans on GAF: this is one of those rare occurrences where you'll probably enjoy watching it even if you don't like anime.

Nailed it. I've watched a handful of episodes from various anime series, and I couldn't name one that I liked enough to go back to.

This on the other hand was pretty great. Fairly derivative obviously, but really nice animation, interesting characters and a really good sense of pace. I'd go back and watch more, if there was more.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
Nailed it. I've watched a handful of episodes from various anime series, and I couldn't name one that I liked enough to go back to.

This on the other hand was pretty great. Fairly derivative obviously, but really nice animation, interesting characters and a really good sense of pace. I'd go back and watch more, if there was more.
Awesome, glad to hear you liked it. I hope other people who aren't big on anime give this a shot now that the whole thing seems to be up legally on YouTube.
 

Broach

Banned
It's rare that I check out an Anime because of the Artstyle. All these shorts make me remember why I like Japanese popart in the first place.
 
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