NeoGAF

Originally Posted by Stumpokapow

I'm replaying the game on Hard / No Vita Chambers now. I'm at the end of Neptune's Bounty (ready to go into the submarine pen and "save Atlas' family"). I'm finding it hard and frustrating--rocket turrets are basically OHKO.

But the thing I'm having the most trouble with is Big Daddys. I've used Grenade Launcher Damage + at the first Power to the People station. But I just can't do enough damage to kill a Rosie. I've been using the research camera extensively. It's not enough though.

My intended build is Wrench Jockey + Armored Shell; Power to the People to upgrade Grenade Launcher and Chemical Thrower; and then max Health and Eve bars. Not sure what else to pick up.

I'm trying to remember if you can come back to Neptune's Bounty from wherever is next -- Fort Frolic, maybe? I don't mind going ahead, getting more research and better weapons and more ammo, and then comic back to fight the Big Daddys later. Can I?

Any advice?

I highly, highly advise you look into non-direct combat approaches to tackle the game (although this is more beneficial on Survivor than Hard mode). The wrench is a highly effective weapon (and, with the correct tonics, probably the best weapon in the game) and, for the most part, is all you need. Going with Target Dummy, Telekenesis and Enrage (I don't think you even need Hypnotise Big Daddy as was suggested, it uses far too much EVE) you can tackle most situations in the game without direct intervention.

The first Rosie is difficult (probably the most difficult since as you've mentioned, you don't have much high-damage equipment) but can be managed. I'm not sure what equipment you have but, if you've not done so already, I'd highly advise purchasing Target Dummy and Enrage and keeping them as your primary Plasmids (80 for the first Little Sister, 80 for the second giving 160 ADAM while each costs 60). First, go in, hack the missile turret, equip Telekenesis and Target Dummy, and bring a red barrel (or multiple red barrels) back to the starting area. At the starting area, when the Rosie is on the lower level (where the pool of water is) place a Target Dummy where he is standing to force the turrets to start shooting it (simultaneously damaging the Rosie) and throw all the barrels you have at the Rosie. Run in to the missile turret area and swap out Telekenesis with Enrage. Run towards the closest turret to you, hack it before placing down another Target Dummy on the Rosie, and running to the next turret, hacking it also. Any enemies that enter the arena, lead them towards the Rosie and Enrage them. With the Enraged enemy, and hacked turrets you can unload everything you have on the Rosie. When one Target Dummy wears off, place another at the Rosie (so if there are multiple enemies they'll all be attacking at the Rosie); if another enemy enters, likewise, Enrage them and return to the Rosie. If you wish, you can Enrage the Rosie instead, it really doesn't matter.

Your main aim is to defeat the first Rosie as this is really the largest threat. When you run out of anything (or reach only one Hypothermic Eve Syringe)/need a break head into the missile turret area and swap out Enrage for Telekenesis (I can't remember if you've two plasmid slots or three at this point but I think it's only two; if it's three even better). Telekenesis will allow you to reach out of place EVE, ammunition, and health kits without expending EVE while simultaneously serving as a way to damage the Rosie, by grabbing the red, explosive barrels in the area and carefully throwing them at the Rosie (you need to be careful; if he shoots them it may explode and kill you).

The 'key' to the fight is to prevent the Rosie destroying the turrets as they'll allow you to do a significant amount of damage without a loss of resources (this may not be a significant problem on Hard mode but on Survival it may be highly beneficial). Planning to upgrade the Grenade Launcher and Chemical Launcher is a strong idea but I'd also definitely advise the Crossbow as this will be highly beneficial in defeating later Big Daddies/Rosies (both with the regular bolts and, in particular, the trap bolts) while also not requiring you to purchase too much ammunition (after the upgrade that reduces the likelihood of them breaking) allowing you to use regular bolts on normal enemies (later on in the game obviously, it's not feasible early on).

For the bolded bit, as has been mentioned, you really don't want to keep on moving through the game without tackling the existing Big Daddies as the ADAM is absolutely essential (it is of course more than possible to only use the weapons but the Vigors' (and Tonics') usefulness cannot be overstated, particularly when the Wrench becomes so incredibly powerful towards the end of the game (with the right Tonics of course).

I know I've probably went into too much detail on the initial Rosie fight but I definitely feel that this is the most challenging part early in the game and, if you can defeat that and acquire the ADAM you're in a much better position for subsequent fights. Target Dummy, and Enrage, really are extremely useful, both throughout the game for the Big Daddy fights (Enrage to a lesser extent admittedly, it's more geared towards the regular enemies but it does have its uses) so I definitely advise you to consider at least experimenting with them (and using them in combination with the Wrench for most standard Splicers). Security Bullseye too is an excellent Plasmid for tackling Big Daddies (depending on the area) as it allows you to set off an alarm, run to the Big Daddy, tag him and wait for his life to start going down.

Anyway, focusing solely on the gameplay, I know many people (not necessarily in this thread though admittedly I've only skimmed through it) complain about the combat in the game and while I can certainly see the validity in disliking the bullet-sponge enemies I have to say that I (still, even replaying it now) adore the combat. There are certainly areas where it could feel clumsy (mainly while utilising the Wrench) but I really do appreciate the large amount of options you have to tackle an area; the ability to set up traps, a large variety in Plasmids and Tonics, and a variety of weapons suited towards different ranges all presenting viable ways to tackle the game. While it is definitely through that, by the end of the game you can become extremely overpowered depending on the equipment you use but I never really cared due to the vast amount of available options. I think it's part of the reason why, even after the climax of the game, I never seemed to suffer the boredom that affects some others (although the loss of momentum is definitely apparent). While in comparison to System Shock 2 it is a step down, I never felt like it was poor on its own merit (but, again, the bullet-sponge never bothered me while others seem to care far more about this aspect).

EDIT: Also, in case it wasn't already clear, I realise you're already past this area in that you've played further but I have gotten the impression that you're unable to do enough damage to defeat a single Rosie in the area which is why I've focused primarily on the first one (mostly because it's the one that I remember above all else; in part due to the initial difficulty of it). The core of the strategy which relies on Enrage, Target Dummy and Telekenesis can be repeated in almost every area but hopefully after defeating the first Rosie and acquiring more ADAM you won't have as much problem with the second, third, fourth, etc. so I hope this helps to some extent.

Taking the narrative of the game, it's certainly enjoyable, definitely one of my favourite video game narratives (not necessarily a particularly good/great story when compared to those contained in other mediums and it definitely loses momentum around sixty percent of the way through but for a game I felt it was surprisingly good) and I highly enjoyed how cohesive each aspect was; the character designs, the atmosphere, the levels, the art, the subplots, the main story (even the medium through which the story is told), the Audio Diaries (one of my favourite aspects of the game) and the characters themselves all combine to make Rapture feel like a fully realised location. It really is one of my favourite games of the generation (definitely not my favourite) and overall I think I prefer it, ever-so-slightly, to Infinite (I'm not a large fan of the second game; I did love the "Something In The Sea" ARG though).

Originally Posted by sflufan

Even the voice recordings in BioShock are more interesting and more insightful than those in Infinite. You get a vastly better feel for the inhabitants of Rapture than you do for those of Columbia.

I definitely concur; the Audio Diaries were utilised to excellent effect. There was such a large diversity of people while the recurrant characters generally had an arc that interweaved with the main plot and other characters' side plots. While they developed the character, they also helped develop others and gave a great insight into the city when taken as a whole.

This is a game that I play through on PC at least once a year. An absolute classic and a perfect companion to a Bioshock Infinite run.

The controls take a bit of tweaking (PC gaming ftw) but once that's sorted, it's a timeless FPS with massive amounts of replayability. This generation turned me into an Irrational fanboy.

Edit: And with forced anti aliasing and downscaling, it still holds up remarkably well in the visuals department. There really should be a Bioshock Trilogy Re-Mastered edition for the next gen consoles so that console gamers can join in on the love too.

It was quite good but:

Too long and too repetitive. Plus it should have focused more on exploration. Good game with an outstanding atmosphere but it could've been much better (to me, I hate shooting waves of enemies). And I never had the urge to play another title in the series after finishing that one (even though I own BS2). Kinda speaks for itself.

I finished it for the first time a week or so ago. It's a pretty good game, but I didn't like it quite as much as many other people did. The world is great, detailed, atmospheric and fun to explore, and I feel that's the game's biggest strength. On the other hand, the combat is just all right. The whole structure is fine, but I think it was done (much) better in the original Deus Ex (which, of course, was heavily inspired by BioShock's spiritual predecessors, but still). The biggest gripe I had with it was the fact that after the first few levels each that followed just had you going through the same motions over and over again. The game shakes things up a little near the end, but it still felt quite repetitive, and it doesn't have the refined gunplay to keep things more engaging.

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