NeoGAF

Originally Posted by ClassyPenguin

I applaud your effort in that.

The problem with "alternatives" is the substitution of professional evaluation which can lead to a misdiagnoses and self-treatment (self-diagnosis). With mental health, there can also be underlying medical conditions that may lurk beneath the surface. Stuff like thyroid problems, liver disease and other medical maladies that present psychological symptoms.

The first thing that people should do is go to a mental health professional...

We're in complete agreement about this. We just end up getting frequent questions about dietary, herbal, alternative treatments and such. I tried to make it clear in the OP that this community is to aid you in getting help; it cannot substitute for professional help. You're absolutely right that you can get mental health symptoms from other medical illnesses, or from medications. You want to rule those things out before you decide to choose some course of treatment for your mind.

Anyway, I want people to feel comfortable asking about treatments that do not come from the fine people in the pharmaceutical industry. I'll think more about how I want that represented.
e

Originally Posted by Woorloog

So. Reading this thread.
Meds (for OCD in this case) can cause odd dreams, apparently.

Is this common with meds for depression?

I've had the same experience with melatonin - it makes my dreams VERY vivid. I don't mind my dreams, although I have had some so vivid that I had to ask myself if that had really happened later.

Antidepressants can change your dreams. No surprises there. You can look into things like lucid dreaming - being able to take control of your dreams. I can do it to a limited degree, and it can really help when the dreams are unpleasant.

Originally Posted by Sadsic

i have been diagnosed with Bipolar II and Schizoid Personality Disorder

im mostly cured of it but i used to be intensely suicidal

im in school now and sometimes the anxiety of it gets to me

most people think of me as the 'weird' guy (and i am the weird the guy), but i hate being boxed in like that

Nice to see you again, Sadsic. I'm glad to hear you've been feeling better! I just kind of embrace being weird (and I'm decidedly weird IRL). I would be really offended if someone described me as "completely normal." That's an insult!

Originally Posted by RionaaM

Gotta eat my words and admit that Bags was right. This is the right title for the new thread. This is about all kind of mental illnesses, not just depression.

In your face! Bagels! Bagels! Bagels!

Originally Posted by Woorloog

Misery loves company, eh?

I always want to crack some gallows humor or other dark jokes in this/previous depression thread, but i always restrain myself:
1. I can't think of any good ones
2. Might offend someone. Badly. Wouldn't be surprised, this is GAF after all. Oh, and some here might just react badly to jokes, i know i might, so maybe better to avoid them.

Gallows humor is definitely welcome. I had to really work to keep the OP serious (you can see where I got really sick of writing and started to make a few jokes) because my brain just sees the humor in things first. I've gotten laughs at every funeral I've ever been to - I cannot help myself!

Anyway, (quasi-tasteful) jokes are welcome. And the IRC chat tends to be really ridiculous if you need a place to be a goof.

Originally Posted by neojubei

Feeling down and depressed right now which is sort of my fault. It starts off with a friend texting me about my old iPhone he is switching carriers and wants to if he can have it since I don't use it anymore. Ok I guess so I texted him back. He texted me again seeing if I was busy and since he was coming by for the phone we can go out for dinner. Now I haven't seen him physically since last year in November. And at that time he was around 240lbs. He told me before that he was sick and lost some weight but when I saw him today I was shocked. He was totally skinny. He is now around 160lbs. When I last saw him he had a big stomach now he looks like a twink (gay term). I did feel happy he is ok from being ill but he looks so different now. When I used go out with him he always joked we were the fat brothers and such now he is far from fat. Now he wears a medium rather then an XXL. So now I feel and look like jabba the hut. I put on a happy face and everything but I just hated myself even more. Even today I bought some XXXL shirts on American eagle. Now I just feel like jumping off the roof. And please not patronize me about exercise and food. I know all that I just have shitty fat genes. Well least he made it to his weight goal. It would take me 50 years to achieve that. He wants to meet up this weekend but I think I will just avoid him for now onward.

That was a really insightful post, Jubei. There has to be some way to see things as more inspirational than hurtful. If he did it, so can you (please don't get incredibly sick). Maybe he can even help you. At the very least, you'll gain nothing from avoiding a friend.

Originally Posted by Foffy

I decided to take the first of the tests in the OP, and damn am I surprised. 26 on BDI, though I believe all of my depression comes from one place, and until that place is dealt with I don't see my mood getting better. Speaking of which, instead of tossing my posts here and feeling like they're being passed up on, is anyone here willing to speak to me personally on what's up with me? Maybe a one-on-one conversation will be more productive on expressing myself and maybe finding a solution to what drags me into the mud. Lately I've wondered if I'm going to live a miserable, low-wage life and I've contemplated if such a palette is even worth living with. I've come to the conclusion I would rather be dead than live that way.

Work that contact list, Foffy! I'm happy to talk if I'm around.

As someone already mentioned, I need to say that the HAM-D is administered by an interviewer (the OP is a tad full, so I need to find a few characters to remove to squeeze in anything new!). The BDI and PHQ-9 are self-scored. I like the PHQ-9 as a standard for the thread, as it's the easiest to do, you can easily memorize it, and I have the scoring breakdown in my head already. Either one is fine - maybe I'll add the scoring breakdown somewhere so people will know what the scores suggest (THEY'RE NOT DIAGNOSTIC!).

Thanks to everyone continuing to suggest things for the OP! I'm glad people like the information in there, and are finding it useful (a ton of work went into that!). Having a really active discussion about what our community needs has been super helpful, and I'm really glad people care enough to put work into it. I realize that not everything can go into the first 3 posts, but I want some common resources to be easy to find. I'm sure I'll spend the next 6 months tweaking that stuff. :)

Originally Posted by youngwerther

Holy fuck I just want one friend in my entire goddamned life, is that so much to ask universe?
Fuck everything.

Originally Posted by youngwerther

Dear God not even my own mom wants to talk to me.

I feel bad, but I was really hoping for some elaborate Goethe-themed literary trolling. I had to review the plot of Sorrows of Young Werther to check. "I'm in love with my friend Lotte, but she's going to marry this other guy..."

Having amused myself in this way, can you say more about why you're having trouble connecting with people? What is stopping you from making friends, do you think? Are you trying to get out and meet new people?

Loneliness, particularly as concerns romance, is perhaps the most popular theme of the thread. I'll write up some thoughts on the topic today. Anyone else have some more advice?

I've subscribed to the thread tentatively, don't hesitate to contact me if somebody starts causing trouble.

Ah, my pessimistic self was right again. I had to wait 2 months for an appointment for a therapist that I made after I finally had the courage to call and make one. Every time I felt bad during this 2 months I calmed myself and said it would get better once I'm in therapy again. Now some assistant calls me 2 weeks before the appointment and says the doc has quit or is going out of business or something. 2 months wasted. Typical.

Originally Posted by Woorloog

My point was going to be that ever since i've been depressed, i haven't been able to concentrate even on things i like, and trying out new stuff is nearly impossible (not a big change to before, always been slow to warm to new things).
Stopped writing because i realized it was so damn late i should go sleep. I did mention something about fucked up sleep rhytms earlier.
Had something else to say too but forgotten it now.

As for the suggestions... A hobby would be a good idea (nothing overly physical though). Unfortunately i can't afford that (and no, i won't borrow money). No money, no job. Should get a job first (lack of money has never motivated me unfortunately). And job would certainly increase my quality of life. Well. Assuming i'd like it, or at least be okay with it.
Volunteering is out of question. There is no local community. I want to get away from here (the area were i live, some might say it is a nice place, me i hate it for it is a reminder of too many unpleasant things) so even if there were, i wouldn't take part in it.
Problem with pick-up lines is that i'm far too serious person to ever try something like that. Besides, i'd be far too concerned about insulting others. And where i'd do this? I don't go to bars/pubs/etc. as i don't use alcohol at all (and nothing makes me, so don't suggest i could try that as being outside my comfort zone). And... do they really call that "social games"?

Then get a job ;) (I realize this can be difficult and appreciate it if you're unable to, but even a bad job is better than none at all). In regards to social games, they're called 'social games' because they are played and designed around a social setting. The one I mentioned is the blow out game, but is just one of many you could play.

The games can be played anywhere, from bars to clubs to streets during the day time. Alcohol doesn't need to be involved at all, and I'd never suggest to anyone to try it, especially when they're not feeling good.

In regards to hobbies, aren't there any taster sessions you could try for free? The idea isn't to add another routine to your life, but to try out a bunch of things you've never done before, change up your life a little.

maomaoIYP, she is just trying to blow you off in a very nice way. I'd suggest you don't pursue her anymore.

Originally Posted by ClassyPenguin

The problem with "alternatives" is the substitution of professional evaluation which can lead to a misdiagnoses and self-treatment (self-diagnosis). With mental health, there can also be underlying medical conditions that may lurk beneath the surface. Stuff like thyroid problems, liver disease and other medical maladies that present psychological symptoms.

Originally Posted by Bagels

You're absolutely right that you can get mental health symptoms from other medical illnesses, or from medications. You want to rule those things out before you decide to choose some course of treatment for your mind.

Originally Posted by Bagels

I also avoided listing faith-based organizations that offer things like crisis lines. I may still find that stuff, but there's a tension between providing information and pushing any kind of agenda, even inadvertently.

I'll make the following points to give you food for thought:

1) Be careful about making assumptions about the people that read this thread.
2) Underlying principle of medical care is that people have a choice over what treatment they do or do not receive.
3) People should feel free and safe to be able to make the medical choices they want. They shouldn't feel pressured. They should feel respected.
4) If you treat people like children, they may well behave like children, treat them like victims they may well behave like victims. Treat them like adults they may well behave like adults.
5) You can't not have an agenda. Not providing information is in itself an agenda.
6) This thread is not titled Severe Depressive Disorder, it's titled Mental Health. So the audience targeted I would say is wider.
7) If someone has mild depression, meds & professional therapy may not be an option for them. However they fall under this thread since it is titled a catch all Mental Health Official Topic. Alternative options are highly relevent to them.
8) You can't just compare benefits of alternatives(be it hypnotherapy, acupuncture, some kind of herb or whatever it is) with benefits of official medicine. Meds have risks and side effects, alternatives may or may not have risks and side effects, even if the benefits are less proven. You'd have to look at the specific alternative to decide it's risks/benefits and what to say about it.
9) Professional help can have a delay, sometimes people wait a month or two for professional therapy. Alternative actions can be started the same day.
10) Alternatives can be in addition to professional help, they don't have to be done instead of it. Alternatives can also be done if you have to wait for professional help.
11) Saying people aim for meds & therapy route is a dispowering message. The best option is for people to do everything they possibly can to counter their mental health problems, with seeking professional help the recommended step. A person that does yoga and takes meds & therapy has more chance of success than someone that just takes meds & therapy. Add a healthy diet it increases again and so on.
12) If, for example someone was the victim of some kind of abuse they don't necessarily need to get their thyroid checked. They may well know what's wrong. If someones relationship broke down, or someone had someone close pass away same thing. Patronising people and telling them they all have to do the same thing is counterproductive. Some people may be completely lost, but others may have some good idea of where they stand.
13) Mental Health should apply to people that have a normally functioning brain. This thread should apply to people that are mentally healthy, since it can show that they can take responsibility and take steps to protect their mental health. Just like how exercise lowers your risk of developing physical diseases, it also lowers your risk of mental diseases. Sending the message that you be proactive and take preventative measures fits within the remit Mental Health |OT|. This also would be useful in reducing the "stigma" of mental illness as the discussion of these issues should be normalised.
14) If a faith based person clicks on this thread a faith based helpline is relevent to them Excluding that is excluding them, this thread should be inclusive.
15) Mild problems can develop into severe problems so targeting people with mild issues is actually highly relevent to the thread.

There's probably some more but that's enough of a brain dump for you to chew over.

Originally Posted by maomaoIYP

edit: Damn I just realized that it felt good getting all that off my chest.

Writing your problems does help in releasing them, sharing them with others helps more. Another thing you can do is write it all down by hand, your brain can recognise its own handwriting so that will give the release effect more power too.

Originally Posted by Bagels

I feel bad, but I was really hoping for some elaborate Goethe-themed literary trolling. I had to review the plot of Sorrows of Young Werther to check. "I'm in love with my friend Lotte, but she's going to marry this other guy..."

My name is sincere, that predicament has haunted my life!

Originally Posted by Bagels

Having amused myself in this way, can you say more about why you're having trouble connecting with people? What is stopping you from making friends, do you think? Are you trying to get out and meet new people?

I'm just not extroverted and I don't know how to put myself out there.
Also, I'm really eccentric. And weird. And sensitive. It's all bad news.

I was uprooted from my home and now live where I know no one.

I want a girlfriend more than anything.

Originally Posted by NeOak

maomaoIYP, she is just trying to blow you off in a very nice way. I'd suggest you don't pursue her anymore.

Thanks for the frank reply, I guess I really just needed to hear that from someone other than the voice in my head.

Thanks, heidern. I always enjoy your thoughtful replies.

You brought up a lot of points that I've been mulling over and posting about here. I've been told more than once that I "think too much." I think most people don't think nearly enough, so I don't think that's so bad, but it will take me a while to figure out exactly how to reconcile my thoughts on exactly what info needs to go into the OP. Of course, anything is fair game for discussion in the thread. I just don't want the OP to say "homeopathy is great," "homeopathy has zero basis in science - it's just water" (my actual opinion, and the current scientific consensus - which is not to say that that's the final answer!), or "discussion of homeopathy is not welcome." I don't know what, if anything, should be said. I'll keep working on it.

The point about expanding the focus from mental illness to mental health is a current goal - thanks for mentioning it.

I do disagree that alternative therapies cannot be compared with traditional therapies. St Johns Wort has its own risks and benefits, just like any other medicine. If you take SJW and an AD, you can get serotonin syndrome - how many medicines that we use today are ultimately derived from natural products? It's dangerous to think that "alternative" is equivalent to risk free, or is automatically in a completely different class of things than traditional therapies. Acupuncture has risks, Zoloft has risks, chiropractic adjustment has risks. Even completely talk-based therapies have risks, if only in losing your time and money, and accepting a non-effective treatment instead of one that works.

I've actually witnessed first hand how people are harmed by treating over the counter or natural products as distinct from prescription medications, many times. I've seen permanent nerve damage from chiropractic treatment, people effectively poisoned by a combination of a natural remedy (not mentioned to the physician) and a prescription medication, or people who have delayed treatment for eminently treatable things in favor of quack treatments. It's very frustrating - you can drink enough water and kill yourself - nothing you do to your body or mind is without consequence.

Overall, if something works, there should be some way to verify it. If hypnotherapy works, show me the science, show me the trials. I cannot see how something like acupuncture can work, but in a way that is not amenable to scientific study, as is sometimes claimed.

I do hope people feel like they are treated as intelligent, fully-formed adults in here. I'll argue for things that I think are right, like I have in this post, but I hope people always feel respected and listened to. I really appreciate you taking the time to post - it really did give me a lot to think about.

Originally Posted by maomaoIYP

Thanks for the frank reply, I guess I really just needed to hear that from someone other than the voice in my head.

I know the feeling.

Focus on your things. There are more fish in the sea.

Originally Posted by heidern

I'll make the following points to give you food for thought:

1) Be careful about making assumptions about the people that read this thread.
2) Underlying principle of medical care is that people have a choice over what treatment they do or do not receive.
3) People should feel free and safe to be able to make the medical choices they want. They shouldn't feel pressured. They should feel respected.
4) If you treat people like children, they may well behave like children, treat them like victims they may well behave like victims. Treat them like adults they may well behave like adults.
5) You can't not have an agenda. Not providing information is in itself an agenda.
6) This thread is not titled Severe Depressive Disorder, it's titled Mental Health. So the audience targeted I would say is wider.
7) If someone has mild depression, meds & professional therapy may not be an option for them. However they fall under this thread since it is titled a catch all Mental Health Official Topic. Alternative options are highly relevent to them.
8) You can't just compare benefits of alternatives(be it hypnotherapy, acupuncture, some kind of herb or whatever it is) with benefits of official medicine. Meds have risks and side effects, alternatives may or may not have risks and side effects, even if the benefits are less proven. You'd have to look at the specific alternative to decide it's risks/benefits and what to say about it.
9) Professional help can have a delay, sometimes people wait a month or two for professional therapy. Alternative actions can be started the same day.
10) Alternatives can be in addition to professional help, they don't have to be done instead of it. Alternatives can also be done if you have to wait for professional help.
11) Saying people aim for meds & therapy route is a dispowering message. The best option is for people to do everything they possibly can to counter their mental health problems, with seeking professional help the recommended step. A person that does yoga and takes meds & therapy has more chance of success than someone that just takes meds & therapy. Add a healthy diet it increases again and so on.
12) If, for example someone was the victim of some kind of abuse they don't necessarily need to get their thyroid checked. They may well know what's wrong. If someones relationship broke down, or someone had someone close pass away same thing. Patronising people and telling them they all have to do the same thing is counterproductive. Some people may be completely lost, but others may have some good idea of where they stand.
13) Mental Health should apply to people that have a normally functioning brain. This thread should apply to people that are mentally healthy, since it can show that they can take responsibility and take steps to protect their mental health. Just like how exercise lowers your risk of developing physical diseases, it also lowers your risk of mental diseases. Sending the message that you be proactive and take preventative measures fits within the remit Mental Health |OT|. This also would be useful in reducing the "stigma" of mental illness as the discussion of these issues should be normalised.
14) If a faith based person clicks on this thread a faith based helpline is relevent to them Excluding that is excluding them, this thread should be inclusive.
15) Mild problems can develop into severe problems so targeting them is actually highly relevent to the thread.

There's probably some more but that's enough of a brain dump for you to chew over.

Bagels laid out most of what I was going to respond with but I'll add some of my own:

Drug therapy has a greater efficacy in heavily depressed people not those who suffer to mild to low or depression due to loss, abuse or a myriad of many other conditions.

Conventional talk therapy, CBT and other forms are very effective for moderate depression and other mental health problems. I think this is where we are having a mixed communication. Bagels and I are not saying that everyone should focus on just drug therapy, however it is important to be evaluated by a professional first. There are many other forms of therapy too, so don't just clump "therapy" into a singular category.

Acupuncture and many "alternative medicine" have not been shown to have any efficacy higher than placebo. Same with many supplements, however like Bagels have said, it is on a case by case basis and while some have been known to have some effect it is better to have it evaluated by a professional first. Those things are not intended to be as a tool for self-diagnosis or self-medication.

Mental health professionals do see patients that are not clinically depressed but are in mourning, victims of domestic, sexual and other forms of abuse and other non medical forms of mental health issues such as phobias etc. Many of these clinics have walk-in and telephone hotlines, so that "delay" is not necessary. A person can also pm and chat with many of us online for help and support (see the topic post).

Encouraging healthy eating and exercise habits is also important and does not invalidate what Bagels and I have said. However, those habits are helpful in combination with a successful diagnosis by a professional. Again, you do not need to have some form of medical reason for depression, anxiety or other forms of mental illness to talk with a professional. Many mental health clinics offer group classes and programs focused on healthy habits. Feel free to post routines, exercise tips, yoga lessons and many other forms of exercise and meditation and diet tips. Those are very much welcome but preface it by showing it is not intended to be a "cure all" or to diagnose but more of healthy habits. For example, telling someone who is suffering from an emotional breakdown to "get up and exercise" or "just change or habits" or "take this root extract" or whatever isn't very constructive.

The "mental health" title is a catch all term intended to break from stigma of mental illnesses and we have been pretty inclusive to those who post here. We don't belittle or try to be judgmental. However, the majority of the posters here do suffer from an "illness" so to speak and most of the time it's very supportive, open and a safe place to vent and let out problems and worries. We can have a section of the OT on books, blogs resources for establishing healthy mental health habits in "healthy" people.

The question of mental illness and normalcy is something that does interest me. I have taken several anthropology courses relating to this (well, medicine and culture). There is no reason why we should stay away from that topic. It's a very talked about topic in anthropology and psychology because of the diversity of human culture. It's really interesting to read about some cultures that do not share the same rigid definitions of mental well being, a problem with the DSM-IV and V and how we diagnose and define those cultural variances.

To have this topic as open as possible, I do think that it should shy away a little from faith based resources. We have to be as open and respectful to everyone. I do see the importance that people place on religion and faith for their mental health, but again it comes to that lots of religious resources may not have the same training or resources as do mental health clinics and professionals. I personally see it as problematic and we don't want this thread to be a science vs religion derailment.

did anyone like my post or what? I hope it helps someone out in the future.

Originally Posted by dutchguyjack

So what does death solve? Really, think about it rationally for a moment. Does it really serve as a solution for any of your problems?

It doesn't, and it would only create new problems for those closest to you. And even though you may have reached a dark point in your life, you do have people that care about you.

You are able to do the things you want to. But you need to give it time and dedication.

Death might seem like the easy way out. But ask yourself this.. is it the best? Knowing that you can achieve everything you want to achieve in your life, and you can live the rest of your life happily, filled with new people and experiences.. Is that really worth giving up?

It seems like the only solution. No matter what I do I will never achieve anything that's for sure. I cannot even look at myself in the mirror anymore

Originally Posted by neojubei

It seems like the only solution. No matter what I do I will never achieve anything that's for sure. I cannot even look at myself in the mirror anymore

That's a delusional statement. If you put your mind to it, you can achieve almost anything you want. You just need to snap out of it and stop being so negative about everything. For a starters, join some martial arts or dancing classes (and every day that you don't have a class, go outside for an hour. Jog for as much of that as possible, and walk the rest of the time!) - they'll put you in a social environment and they'll help you lose weight. Reduce the amount of calories you take per day to about 2000, and reduce the carb intake. That is, no white bread, white rice, white pasta or potatoes (at all!). Substitute those for wholewheat bread, brown rice, wholewheat pasta and sweet potatoes.

Reduce your intake of meat, and stop eating red meats (or at least reduce them to once or twice per week). Stick to chicken, turkey and fish. Cook them in the oven or on the grill, no butter, just spices. Eat salad every day, and increase your intake of fruits and vegetables.

No cookies, no cake, no soda. Stick to fruit juice (not from concentrate!), water and one glass of skimmed milk every day. If you eat cereal, only buy unsweetened cereal.

If you drink coffee or tea, don't drink it with sugar.

I'm not going to accept a "I can't achieve anything" unless you did your very best at everything you could achieve and nothing changed. Weigh yourself every month, keep track of your progress.

Also, if you need to go anywhere within walking distance (that is, takes less than 30 minutes to walk there), walk! Don't take the car.

Originally Posted by youngwerther

I'm just not extroverted and I don't know how to put myself out there.
Also, I'm really eccentric. And weird. And sensitive. It's all bad news.

I was uprooted from my home and now live where I know no one.

I want a girlfriend more than anything.

Being eccentric and weird doesn't stop you from getting a girlfriend. In fact, living in an environment where you know no-one is an excellent position to meet new people. Being introverted doesn't stop you from meeting new people either. Like I've said before, you need to put yourself in social settings and actually meet people.

Also, don't be afraid to 'offend' girls. If you want to say one thing but change it to something else in the hopes that she'll like you for it, stop yourself and revert to saying the thing you were going to say in the first place. Don't be the 'nice guy', be yourself.

Originally Posted by dutchguyjack

Being eccentric and weird doesn't stop you from getting a girlfriend. In fact, living in an environment where you know no-one is an excellent position to meet new people. Being introverted doesn't stop you from meeting new people either. Like I've said before, you need to put yourself in social settings and actually meet people.

Also, don't be afraid to 'offend' girls. If you want to say one thing but change it to something else in the hopes that she'll like you for it, stop yourself and revert to saying the thing you were going to say in the first place. Don't be the 'nice guy', be yourself.

This is actually really solid advice. Not only is it more fair to yourself and you don't have to be "scared" of wjat if she finds out the "real" you, but changing your attitude from "i need to impress her" to "she needs to impress me" will raise your self-value and self-confidence. Win-win.

I'm working on this myself...

Originally Posted by dutchguyjack

That's a delusional statement. If you put your mind to it, you can achieve almost anything you want. You just need to snap out of it and stop being so negative about everything. For a starters, join some martial arts or dancing classes (and every day that you don't have a class, go outside for an hour. Jog for as much of that as possible, and walk the rest of the time!) - they'll put you in a social environment and they'll help you lose weight. Reduce the amount of calories you take per day to about 2000, and reduce the carb intake. That is, no white bread, white rice, white pasta or potatoes (at all!). Substitute those for wholewheat bread, brown rice, wholewheat pasta and sweet potatoes.

Reduce your intake of meat, and stop eating red meats (or at least reduce them to once or twice per week). Stick to chicken, turkey and fish. Cook them in the oven or on the grill, no butter, just spices. Eat salad every day, and increase your intake of fruits and vegetables.

No cookies, no cake, no soda. Stick to fruit juice (not from concentrate!), water and one glass of skimmed milk every day. If you eat cereal, only buy unsweetened cereal.

If you drink coffee or tea, don't drink it with sugar.

I'm not going to accept a "I can't achieve anything" unless you did your very best at everything you could achieve and nothing changed. Weigh yourself every month, keep track of your progress.

Also, if you need to go anywhere within walking distance (that is, takes less than 30 minutes to walk there), walk! Don't take the car.

That's not going to work out for me. I just going to sleep all day to avoid being awake

This thread is wonderful. I hope to find time to contribute to it, as well as the IRC channel

Usually the first thing in my mind to say is the most honest, which is

"Hi. I think you are really attractive."

That to me just isn't a good way to start the ball rolling lol.

Sometimes I think things like "Wow I really like her earrings" or something about her style, but I've seen other guys do that and it always falls flat.
They say they like something that she has put together, she says thanks, and then they fall silent.

Originally Posted by youngwerther

Usually the first thing in my mind to say is the most honest, which is

"Hi. I think you are really attractive."

That to me just isn't a good way to start the ball rolling lol.

Sometimes I think things like "Wow I really like her earrings" or something about her style, but I've seen other guys do that and it always falls flat.
They say they like something that she has put together, she says thanks, and then they fall silent.

Well if you want to go with a direct opener like that you need to keep in mind that you shouldn't really give her much time to respond to it. Just introduce yourself right after the compliment and say the first thing that comes to mind.

If you really can't think about anything to say ask her how her day has been or what she has been up to. Pick anything from that and continue the conversation from there - once you get over the initial awkwardness the conversation will come naturally.

So I think my therapist is mad at me. I haven't been working on my résumé which he wants me to do since changing jobs would help with my depression. I think he wants me to change therapists because he says that he doesn't think he can help me anymore. Honestly I hate this world and really want to get out of it. Nothing in this world is worth fighting for worth living for.

Originally Posted by neojubei

So I think my therapist is mad at me. I haven't been working on my résumé which he wants me to do since changing jobs would help with my depression. I think he wants me to change therapists because he says that he doesn't think he can help me anymore. Honestly I hate this world and really want to get out of it. Nothing in this world is worth fighting for worth living for.

Excuse my French, but why the hell not? Stop feeling sorry for yourself and do something with your life. You live the reality that you create. Getting fat, a lack of social contact and your perception of the world are all by choice. You chose this life, and it's fully within your power to change it.

And I apologize but this will be the last time I respond to your comments unless you actually do something with the advice that I, and others on here, give you. Otherwise both you and we are wasting our time.

Great OP! Subscribed.

I maybe a broken record, but I really do feel like an old man trapped in a young mans body.

My youth (from 16-21) was completely taken from me, and I have no idea how I could possibly amend this. Unlike others I never feel I had a chance to play and enjoy my youth, and now I just feel lost because of this. Of course I did go out, but because of my OCD (plus some other reasons) I struggled to socialise and enjoy myself as much as I'd have hoped.

I'm now stuck in a full-time job I do not wish to be doing, I'm living with a lot of regret, I lack confidence, I've not gotten very far with women, I have no motivation to do what I want to do, I fear failure, I have a low opinion of myself, and I have to deal with my OCD on a daily basis. I feel physically and mentally tired because of all of this, and I'm just fed up.

I just want to enjoy my life a bit, is that really too much to ask? I'm 23 and I feel like I'm going nowhere, and I'm more lost than ever. When I was a kid I had a clear idea of where I wanted to go, but now I'm not sure I'm on the right path.

I hate posting what is essentially the same message I always post, but this is all too frustrating for me.

Hello, new thread! Not doing too badly as of late, though I'm thinking of talking to my psych about upping my Effexor (downturns starting to paralyze me again).

Originally Posted by neojubei

So I think my therapist is mad at me. I haven't been working on my résumé which he wants me to do since changing jobs would help with my depression. I think he wants me to change therapists because he says that he doesn't think he can help me anymore. Honestly I hate this world and really want to get out of it. Nothing in this world is worth fighting for worth living for.

But if you just continually say 'that will never work for me' then how can he help you?

You can't prove something won't work by never trying it.

I swear every time it looks like I have a social event lined up something comes up and nobody thinks of informing me. I'm sick of running after everybody and contacting everybody only for nobody to respond and later tell me "oh yeah it was busy so we went somewhere else". Fuck off, my life is pathetic enough as is, i don't want to de-value myself even more by running after everybody. I deserve better than that.

Fuck.

Originally Posted by Bagels

I do disagree that alternative therapies cannot be compared with traditional therapies.

My point is not that you can't make comparisons, it's that you can't make unqualified comparisons, nor can you make sweeping generalisations. You have to judge the benefits relative to the costs and risks. This applies to everything, both traditional and alternative. In fact you could even apply this to doing nothing.

Originally Posted by ClassyPenguin

Acupuncture and many "alternative medicine" have not been shown to have any efficacy higher than placebo. Same with many supplements, however like Bagels have said, it is on a case by case basis and while some have been known to have some effect it is better to have it evaluated by a professional first.

Originally Posted by Bagels

Overall, if something works, there should be some way to verify it. If hypnotherapy works, show me the science, show me the trials. I cannot see how something like acupuncture can work, but in a way that is not amenable to scientific study, as is sometimes claimed.

You are looking at this in terms of statistics, but you have to remember you are not dealing with stock levels or economic growth, you are dealing with real life human beings. Regardless the statistics any risk needs to be considered. You give examples of where alternatives go wrong, but what about official avenues going wrong? How many people in the last thread spoke of therapists that made things worse and didn't trust any therapist anymore? How many tried many different meds without success and then gave up on them? Or how about Uchip? He said that it was the meds that fucked him up worse than ever and he thinks beyond repair.

Regardless whether you, a doctor, a psychiatrist or the statistics think meds would be a good idea for someone, it's down to the individual what risks they are prepared to take. You can give strong recommendations, but the important thing is that people can make an informed choice.

Originally Posted by ClassyPenguin

Many of these clinics have walk-in and telephone hotlines, so that "delay" is not necessary. A person can also pm and chat with many of us online for help and support (see the topic post).

People from many countries around the world look at this thread. The level of access they have to healthcare will vary. Saying the delay is not necessary is also factually inaccurate seeing as gamma has just posted that he's had to wait two months and still hasn't seen a therapist. Therapy is expensive, it's a fact that many people, maybe even the vast majority of people do have to wait to get access to therapy.

Originally Posted by ClassyPenguin

To have this topic as open as possible, I do think that it should shy away a little from faith based resources. We have to be as open and respectful to everyone. I do see the importance that people place on religion and faith for their mental health, but again it comes to that lots of religious resources may not have the same training or resources as do mental health clinics and professionals. I personally see it as problematic and we don't want this thread to be a science vs religion derailment.

Shying away from resources and being open contradict each other. If some resources lack training that comes under being a risk. But there's always a risk, your homeopathist may only care about money, your hypnotherapist may use faulty techniques, your doctor may be malpractise level dodgy, your therapist may be uncaring, your religious advisor may be an extremist, your meds may hurt you, your exercise accident may paralyse you. Whatever the resource or intervention, meds, CBT, religious helpline, yoga etc you should give both the potential benefits and the potential risks and then people can decide for themselves. Hiding things is also unethical as it goes against informed choice. If an intervention hurts someone that's sad but it's reality, but if they only took that intervention because you withheld an alternative that's wrong.

The thing with being ethical isn't just me being idealistic, there are always serious consequences if you go against it.

In this case, regardless the problem someone has and regardless the actions they take to resolve it, ultimately it all comes down to taking responsibility. If someone takes responsibility for their mental health issue they may succeed in overcoming it, if they don't take responsibility they won't succeed. Even if someone follows your advice personal responsibility is the key element. The individual has to take responsibility and accept that they have a mental health issue. They have to take responsibility and choose to take action. They have to take responsibility to go to the doctor. They have to take the responsibility of listening to his recommendations. If given meds they have to take the responsibility of following the prescription. If given therapy they have to take the responsibility of going to the sessions. Surrounding everything they have to take responsibility for living their lives in an effective manner.

That element of taking responsibility is crucial, it has to be cultivated. Because without it there's no way someone can succeed against mental illness and live a happy life. For people to take responsibility you have to trust them. If you don't present someone with an option you are taking away their ability to choose and in doing so you are undermining their ability to take responsibility.

I know it's scary. You'd like people to make the best decisions, so of course it will be tempting to try to wrap people up in cotton wool to protect them. But the decision is theirs, whether a risk is worth taking is for them to decide. To have any success, you need to be prepared to fail. You need to let people make their own decisions.

By giving people responsibility you increase the chance that they'll take responsibility and make a decision. In being ethical and trusting people you also increase their trust in you, so they'll be more likely to follow your recommendations.

Thanks for the thoughts, heidern. I know we don't exactly see eye to eye on this, but I will think about what you've said. It's great to have another perspective.

I guess my current thought is that there is not perfect information about the risks and benefits of many things, and some are known less well than others. For all that to come out, we have all of these places to talk to each other and share things. The OP is already overflowing - it cannot hold everything. I hope the things in there are informative - definitions, how things are diagnosed, what kinds of medications are used - without being too prescriptive. You're advised to seek professional help, but I don't tell you to take meds or do therapy, or eat more beets or whatever. It's all just a basic guide to some mental health topics. As you said, it cannot possibly be free of my own biases. But I hope the first post, which basically welcomes people to a wide-ranging discussion, is the part that people will pay the most attention to. The rest is just some basic info that I frankly don't expect most people will read. I'll keep working to make it better, to include a wide range of resources, to cover all kinds of approaches, and to cover basic resources for a healthy mind, but it can never take the place of great discussion in the thread.

Good to see a new thread to start on a fresh note.

I think I've mentioned it before, but nonetheless.. This book has opened my eyes several times. I've worked through it with my therapist. But if you don't have one you can always give it a shot of course. The title is horribly cheesy, but it's good. Written by the man who developed schema therapy.


Reinventing your life by Jeffrey E. Young.

People are sometimes embarrassed to share their feels with the community, good or bad. I got a really amazing message yesterday and I asked if I could share it anonymously here.

I'm so happy that I posted in the Depression thread. Like, it sucks that I'm like this, but I'm kinda glad because I met all these awesome people. And now I'm on my way to getting better and I'm not sure if I would've been able to take that step myself, you know? And like, people were all "go for it you're worth it!" And i just feel better now than i have in years. I mean, I'm still a little screwed up, but I'm working on it and its all cuz of all these fab people.

You guys rock!

Originally Posted by Flo

Good to see a new thread to start on a fresh note.

I think I've mentioned it before, but nonetheless.. This book has opened my eyes several times. I've worked through it with my therapist. But if you don't have one you can always give it a shot of course. The title is horribly cheesy, but it's good. Written by the man who developed schema therapy.


Reinventing your life by Jeffrey E. Young.

Thanks for the recommendation, the contents look like it's exactly something that I need; I'm victim to most of those lifetraps there. Gonna look for a copy at my regular bookstore on Sunday.

From the anonymous email account:

Does depression ever haze out the feeling of love towards someone else? Like you're not sure if you are in love or not and it's a constant battle...Does anyone experience this?

Originally Posted by Bagels

From the anonymous email account:

I don't think that's a result of depression. I have an on-off thing going for a girl as well, with moments I'm immensely interested in her, and moments where I couldn't care less about her. I'm not depressed however, so I think it relies more on the relationship you have towards this person. Back when I was still depressed I was madly in love with a girl I knew, and that was very consistent.

Since i am stuck at home (Boston locked down) I think I will work on my resume, do some pushups and situps.

Originally Posted by neojubei

Since i am stuck at home (Boston locked down) I think I will work on my resume, do some pushups and situps.

That's the spirit, keep it up. Proud of ya.