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V_Ben
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(04-17-2013, 03:41 PM)
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Credit to user Brad Grenz for this find.

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-t...=1#post3339451

Originally Posted by Telefrog
2. Warrior's Lair looks pretty good. Why didn't that get released?


Nightgaunt

It does look pretty good, doesn't it? It WAS pretty good, actually, although I'm the furthest from unbiased you can be. I had been lead designer on a couple of aborted projects before that, but this one was actually within sight of being finished. I had been involved from the very beginning and had helped develop the concept.

It had a year of full development on it and was (by our schedule, anyway) 3 months away from being done when it was cancelled. There were 50 or 60 people on the team. I led a team of 8 designers and 10 junior level designers. Suffice it to say, Sony had put millions of dollars into it when they killed it.

I can only speculate about why they did so, so keep in mind this is just how I've been able to make sense of it. First, I assume it had to do with the weakness of the VITA. Sony internal studios, to me, looked like they never had much faith in it. As far as we were concerned, the game was primarily a PS3 game; we weren't going to bank on the VITA. But it sure did look and play nicely on the VITA. And the cross-play feature--which was the biggest part of the marketing push for the game--would have been great.

Like I said, we were three months from going into final test (this was one year ago). A LOT of stuff was coming online at that point. We had tuned combat, the classes, and enemy AI for a long time, but the RPG elements of leveling up and equipment, etc, had been missing for a long time. The story progression was just being implemented. But our tools were in awesome shape, the game was quite playable, and we had a ton of content (which had been planned on paper for months beforehand) going in. But I think our partners at Sony weren't close enough to the project to see or understand a lot of it. They just saw how far we had to go. They were upset that we had had to push the schedule back once earlier by a few months (on one hand, understandable, on the other, I think a case could be made that the original schedule was unrealistic). To be honest, it would have been a rough few months of finishing and polishing. I think we would have made it and would have had a pretty decent game by the end of it, but again, I can't see things too objectively. I'd say Sony was right to worry, but ultimately made a poor call. I don't know what other internal considerations might have been affecting them, but it's definitely the case that around that time there was a lot of bad financial news from Sony Corp. But I have no idea if/how that affected the SCEA studios. There was also a rumor that VITA games in development were given a Metascore rating to hit after the first few games got middling reviews, but I don't know if that's true or if it affected the decision.

When they killed it, they said they were going to finish it at their San Diego studio. This was also the story they put out to the press, saying it wasn't cancelled. While they owned all the work we had done, this was always an absurd suggestion. No one in San Diego knew anything about our tools, our technology, or our design. So I don't know how serious they ever were about that idea, but a few months later we heard through the grapevine that they had no plans to do so. It's extremely unlikely the game will ever be released.

Warrior's Lair (we hated the name, which came from Sony marketing) was going to be a light ARPG. It had all the core features of the genre, although it might have been missing a few things that are common with some of the genre stand-outs. But it also had a couple of innovative features. The combat was inspired more by beat-em-ups along the lines of God of War than by Torchlight or Diablo, with combos and more mobile characters. Killing stuff really was fun. And then there were the social features. You were matched up with rivals, with whom you could compete. Primarily that meant raiding their Lairs, which were dungeons whose properties were determined by relics, collected while adventuring, that you installed in the lair to make it more difficult to defeat. You could pick what monsters you wanted to guard your lair and then a random dungeon was generated based off of that and the relics you had chosen. When someone raided your lair, you split a reward--the more times they died in the raid, the larger your percentage of that reward. All this stuff was working (if not tuned) when the project was shut down.

Warrior's Lair wasn't going to set the world on fire. It did not have the budget to compete with a Dark Souls, much less a Diablo. It probably had a number of weak spots. But I also think it would have been worth playing. I think it might have been a bright spot on the VITA line-up, too. From where I sit, it's a shame that gamers didn't get their hands on it. While I stumbled my way through that project, learning along the way how to be a lead designer--how to make decisions, when to delegate, how to adapt to schedule restraints and stakeholder opinions--I'm most proud of the design team I had and the work they did.

Make of this what you will.
jwk94
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(04-17-2013, 03:42 PM)
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no!!!! I want this game!

EDIT:

My day has been Ruined.
Last edited by jwk94; 04-17-2013 at 03:45 PM.
Minions
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(04-17-2013, 03:42 PM)
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Well that is unfortunate, though not totally unexpected due to the lack of news.
SolsticeZero
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(04-17-2013, 03:43 PM)
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I've honestly expected this. It's been in development hell for quite a while.
The Mana Legend
Banned
(04-17-2013, 03:43 PM)
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Why bother releasing it when you have Diablo 3?
ShockingAlberto
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(04-17-2013, 03:43 PM)
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Sony not having confidence in the Vita is not an extremely outlandish or surprising suggestion.
Xater
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(04-17-2013, 03:43 PM)
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I forgot this game even existed. Made no impact at all for me when they presented it on stage.
dragonflys545
Junior Member
(04-17-2013, 03:44 PM)
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OMFG :(
shink
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(04-17-2013, 03:44 PM)
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Shame. It actually looked quite promising.
Genesis Knight
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(04-17-2013, 03:44 PM)
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The combat was inspired more by beat-em-ups along the lines of God of War than by Torchlight or Diablo, with combos and more mobile characters.

Sounds like Beyond Oasis.
V_Ben
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(04-17-2013, 03:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Mana Legend

Why bother releasing it when you have Diablo 3?

Ding-a-ling.
Ridley327
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(04-17-2013, 03:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by ShockingAlberto

Sony not having confidence in the Vita is not an extremely outlandish or surprising suggestion.

Well, there was always the PS3 version of the game.

Sounds like development has been a complete mess, and with Diablo 3 on the way, the importance of this game is non-existent.
Maedhros
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(04-17-2013, 03:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Mana Legend

Why bother releasing it when you have Diablo 3?

Because Diablo 3 is shitty.
semiconscious
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(04-17-2013, 03:46 PM)
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even if this isn't the 'complete picture', it's still pretty fucking sad :( . good find...
Usobuko
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(04-17-2013, 03:46 PM)
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Damn, I rather give this a shot than Diablo III.
Nerix
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(04-17-2013, 03:47 PM)
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But why did they release another gameplay trailer last December? ( http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505267 )

It seems to be unlikely doing that after showing nothing for more than a year and cancel it a few weeks later...
Figboy79
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(04-17-2013, 03:47 PM)
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Or, perhaps, the game just wasn't that good. I've worked at companies that had some really promising games on the horizon, and axed them because, while they previewed well and had some pretty screenshots, the actual games just weren't shaping up to be quality, and the investors pulled the plug.

It's unfortunate, because Warrior's Lair looked really interesting, and I'm a fan of the hack n' slash genre, but honestly, after Balder's Gate: Dark Alliance, I haven't really played one on consoles that I thought was any good. The Champions of Norrath games were ok, but there was something missing that I couldn't quite put my finger on.

I'd kill for an HD remaster of the two Dark Alliance games, though. Me and my wife still play those at least once a year.
The Mana Legend
Banned
(04-17-2013, 03:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Maedhros

Because Diablo 3 is shitty.

Considering the "talent" behind Warrior's Lair, I doubt it would be much better.
bobbytkc
ADD New Gen Gamer
(04-17-2013, 03:47 PM)
To be fair. The game had bomba written all over it
lantus
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(04-17-2013, 03:48 PM)
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Shame really, this game showed a lot of promise in the wake of Diablo 3 and it was supposed to be a launch title to boot. Sony should just wrap it up, put it on PSN and call it a day.
metalslimer
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(04-17-2013, 03:49 PM)
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Starting to doubt golden abyss 2 ever releases.
ShockingAlberto
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(04-17-2013, 03:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Mana Legend

Why bother releasing it when you have Diablo 3?

To produce and release software for their handheld system, presumably.
the TMO
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(04-17-2013, 03:49 PM)
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Thanks Diablo. :/
Maedhros
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(04-17-2013, 03:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Mana Legend

Considering the "talent" behind Warrior's Lair, I doubt it would be much better.

Considering the talent from Blizzard and that they were working on the game for 5+ years, I thought we would get a better game.
Festwill
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(04-17-2013, 03:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by jwk94

no!!!! I want this game!

EDIT:

My day has been Ruined.

kinda bummed as well.

When they killed it, they said they were going to finish it at their San Diego studio. This was also the story they put out to the press, saying it wasn't cancelled. While they owned all the work we had done, this was always an absurd suggestion. No one in San Diego knew anything about our tools, our technology, or our design.

So, in effect, they didn't document any of their shit? So pro.

Warrior's Lair (we hated the name, which came from Sony marketing)

Ultimately of no consequence, but what a shit name that was. GJ Sony Marketing.

stumbled my way through that project, learning along the way how to be a lead designer--how to make decisions, when to delegate, how to adapt to schedule restraints and stakeholder opinions

So, to paraphrase, the guy didn't technically know what the hell he was doing and sorta figured it out on the fly? Hahaha, so pro, lead designing by the seat of one's pants.
Last edited by Festwill; 04-17-2013 at 03:54 PM.
Ridley327
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(04-17-2013, 03:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Maedhros

Considering the talent from Blizzard and that they were working on the game for 5+ years, I thought we would get a better game.

I don't think it's so crazy that even with how disappointing Diablo 3 turned out to be that it would still be leagues ahead of Warrior's Lair. Idol Minds has never been a particularly good developer, and SCE San Diego is kind of a disaster when they're not working on MLB.
jschreier
(04-17-2013, 03:53 PM)
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There was also a rumor that VITA games in development were given a Metascore rating to hit after the first few games got middling reviews, but I don't know if that's true or if it affected the decision.

Man.
kazebyaka
Banned
(04-17-2013, 03:54 PM)
I kinda wanted this game :( Well, i hope studio will live
jwhit28
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(04-17-2013, 03:54 PM)
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Does anyone have the picture of the "announced" games for Vita from E3 with Bioshock on it? So many games that didn't pan out for Vita.
famousmortimer
Banned
(04-17-2013, 03:54 PM)
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I don't know about some of the specifics like the metacritic thing... but the part about it being sent to San Diego Studios to die is absolutely true. I was told that it was quietly canceled shortly after they announced the change in developers and they basically hoped that no one would notice. And not many people did. That was a pretty long time ago...



As for the quality of the game - I never played it - but I know people who did and I was told it was absolute garbage. This is, of course, the same team that made the absolutely awful game PAIN.


I was excited for it once upon a time. The idea of having your own lair to defend combined with the crossplay was neat. But from what i've heard it never even came close to delivering on those promises.
V_Ben
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(04-17-2013, 03:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

Man.

Yeah, that bit is my absolute favourite.
Dragon
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(04-17-2013, 03:57 PM)
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Metacritic has a lot to answer for.
Mario007
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(04-17-2013, 03:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

Man.

This is a suggestion, but since you're a jounralist could you follow up on it? I mean yeah Sony most likely won't tell you anything but still...and also if you could ask about the development status of Warrior's Lair I'd gladly make Kotaku my go-to gaming website for a week :)
Pylon_Trooper
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(04-17-2013, 03:58 PM)
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A shame. The dungeon/lair creation aspect was by far the most interesting part of it, combined with the touted asynchronous multiplayer-esque raiding friends' dungeons etc.
Crimson_Gold
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(04-17-2013, 04:00 PM)
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My heart is broken. Seriously. I wanted this game so bad.
levitan
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(04-17-2013, 04:01 PM)
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Sony, I really want this game you know?

Damn...
Mario007
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(04-17-2013, 04:03 PM)
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In the other thread it was mentioned that Sony released another gamplay trailer for this in December, so SSD have definitely worked on it
Corto
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(04-17-2013, 04:05 PM)
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With Diablo around the corner, Warrior's Lair is redundant. Don't know if Diablo will support remote play though. That would be cool.
Mario007
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(04-17-2013, 04:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Corto

With Diablo around the corner, Warrior's Lair is redundant. Don't know if Diablo will support remote play though. That would be cool.

Diablo has to come to Vita though, WL was kinda hyped because of the Vita/PS3 play and I know many people are looking for a game like this on the go. Interestingly Blizzard didn't rule out a Vita version when asked about it.
Jac_Solar
Banned
(04-17-2013, 04:12 PM)

You were matched up with rivals, with whom you could compete. Primarily that meant raiding their Lairs, which were dungeons whose properties were determined by relics, collected while adventuring, that you installed in the lair to make it more difficult to defeat. You could pick what monsters you wanted to guard your lair and then a random dungeon was generated based off of that and the relics you had chosen. When someone raided your lair, you split a reward--the more times they died in the raid, the larger your percentage of that reward. All this stuff was working (if not tuned) when the project was shut down.

This concept could become a huge thing in gaming.

A regular game, with an overworld, etc, plus a dungeon of your own that you could upgrade with the loot from the regular game.
ShinUltramanJ
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(04-17-2013, 04:13 PM)
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Sucks to hear, I was really looking forward to Warrior's Lair. Wouldn't be surprised if come fall my Vita is primarily a PS4 remote playing device.
Nerix
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(04-17-2013, 04:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mario007

In the other thread it was mentioned that Sony released another gamplay trailer for this in December, so SSD have definitely worked on it

Yep, and also mentioned above (see post 16).

Gameplay Trailer from December 2012 and GAF-Thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=KeP4bJV1KcU&hd=1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505267

Really donīt get why they should release a trailer (after not doing that for over a year) and cancel it a few weeks later.

I call BS.
BlackLagoon
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(04-17-2013, 04:27 PM)
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One wonders what San Diego is doing then (outside of course MLB). I seem to recall they were on a bit of a hiring binge last year, looking for various designers and mocap supervisors etc.
CaptainTiptop
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(04-17-2013, 04:30 PM)
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Say it ain't so. :(

I just want a dungeon crawler on my Vita, and I don't want to remote play Diablo 3.
Dragon
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(04-17-2013, 04:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Corto

With Diablo around the corner, Warrior's Lair is redundant. Don't know if Diablo will support remote play though. That would be cool.

Diablo is coming to PS4, so it will if you get one of those!
BattleMonkey
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(04-17-2013, 04:32 PM)
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Seems silly if it was that close to done to just can it yet apparently it's still being worked on? Seems like it would have been easier to just let them finish it rather than drag this out longer and having to keep paying people to toss the game around.
Dr. Zoidberg
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(04-17-2013, 04:34 PM)
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With this disappointing news, one might want to play Dungeon Siege PSP on their Vita to get their fix, but unfortunately, it's not available on the store. I enjoyed that game but the UMD/ horrific load times killed my desire to play after a while. I'd love to try it again on the Vita.

I played both Untold Legends games and they were mediocre at best, so they're out.

I hated the demo for Dungeon Explorer but a few people liked it.

To bad there is no way to legally play Diablo 1 PS1 on the Vita.
DMPrince
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(04-17-2013, 04:37 PM)
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gives me high hopes if ps4 doesnt sell
FinKL
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(04-17-2013, 04:57 PM)
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I played it at CES 2011. It was ok at best (Diablo3 was on the horizon, Dungeon Hunter/Explorer? was out coming out as well), but the killer feature they we're trying to sell was Crossplay where you can play on the Vita, then PS3, then Vita again etc.

Sad news, if it was so close to finish
Grumbul
Junior Member
(04-17-2013, 05:22 PM)
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First game I pre-ordered for my Vita.

Well I guess that's that then.

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