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Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(05-06-2013, 12:49 AM)
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So, I just beat the the iOS version of Talisman Prologue, and decided to go see when the PC version of the multiplayer game is coming out.

Clicking on the Steam Greenlight link, I found this fascinating statement:

Originally Posted by Steam Greenlight

...

At Nomad Games, our ultimate goal is to release Talisman and many expansions. The more successful the game is, the more expansions we can make! We have the rights to every Talisman expansion pack, so whether you want to visit the City, run away from the Reaper or go Dungeon delving, vote for Talisman DE and we can make it happen!

To PRE-ORDER your copy, go to
http://www.talisman-game.com/talismande

Talisman Prologue has now been available on PC through our own web site for six months. Two publishers have offered to back our product on Steam, but Valve has made very clear this is not an option.

The next release will be the multiplayer DE version, available around the middle of this year. We have therefore decided to consolidate Talisman into our multiplayer product. We will also be offering many more platforms and languages, including Mac and Linux.

Prologue on its own will never be available on Steam. The length of the Greenlight process erodes the value of the product when it is available elsewhere. If you want to see Talisman in all its glory on Steam, this is now the place to vote!

Talisman Games Workshop Limited 1983, 1985, 1994, 2007. Talisman: Digital Edition Games Workshop Limited 2013. Games Workshop, Talisman, Talisman: Digital Edition, the foregoing marks’ respective logos and all associated marks, logos, characters, products and illustrations from the Talisman game are either , TM and/or Games Workshop Limited 1983–2013, variably registered in the UK and other countries around the world. This edition published under license to Nomad Games Ltd. Nomad Games is the registered trademark Nomad Games Limited. All Rights Reserved to their respective owners.

Source: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...s/?id=97489182
A good poster
Banned
(05-06-2013, 12:50 AM)
Why the hell would they do that? Does every small indie game have to go through Greenlight?
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(05-06-2013, 12:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by A good poster

Why the hell would they do that? Does every small indie game have to go through Greenlight?

Apparently?
Valnen
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:52 AM)
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Horrible if true. Valve is not always the great company everyone makes them out to be.
linko9
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:52 AM)
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I just cannot fathom why Valve thinks this greenlight thing is a good idea. Good, established developers, and promising new games get shafted while dodgy crap gets voted through (along with good stuff, of course). Leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
wwm0nkey
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:53 AM)
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Really? :/
gngf123
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by A good poster

Why the hell would they do that? Does every small indie game have to go through Greenlight?

Nowadays, yeah pretty much. Unless you have had a game on Steam before, Greenlight is about the only way.

Valve need to change things. Greenlight is a good concept that is currently hurting more than it is helping.
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(05-06-2013, 12:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by linko9

I just cannot fathom why Valve thinks this greenlight thing is a good idea. Good, established developers, and promising new games get shafted while dodgy crap gets voted through (along with good stuff, of course). Leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

I would like to note that Talisman Prologue was quite good, and it's a popular board game from Games Workshop that has even appeared on The Big Bang Theory so it's not like something no one would want here.
A Human Becoming
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

Horrible if true. Valve is not always the great company everyone makes them out to be.

It's been clear for sometime now developers are not happy with how Valve has handled Greenlight. This doesn't sound like a step in the right direction.
Fjordson
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:54 AM)
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I'm sure Valve meant well when they originally conceived Greenlight, but in practice it's been an annoyance. Not sure why they continue to be so adamant about using it.
SolarPowered
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:54 AM)
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Greenlight is the worst thing to come out of Steam.

Fucking hell
Miles Quaritch
lemme stick dat Red Ring
(05-06-2013, 12:54 AM)
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Huh, what could the reason for this be? Seems silly. Are they worried about the service being bombarded with garbage or something?
1-D_FTW
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:54 AM)
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I don't think you should be able to by-pass quality control just by getting hooked up with a publisher. Nor do I think it's great for developers to have to give away control/money to sign with a publisher just to get onto Steam. Valve just needs to fix greenlight. It sucks in its current form and is way too inbred in the types of games it greenlights.
Meelow
Banned
(05-06-2013, 12:54 AM)
Valve really is starting to become part of the big 4.
Zia
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:54 AM)
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I guess they think it would set a precedent, if successful, where developers with really polished games would seek publishers and leave Greenlight an XBLIG-style wasteland? Don't know, but there's very little I like about Greenlight.

Originally Posted by Meelow

Valve really is starting to become part of the big 4.

I don't know about that. Valve has a tendency to make money by expertly catering to the customer, developers and publishers. Something the "Big 3" don't always do (and rarely, in Nintendo's case). Greenlight is an unfortunate blip, though I do think it could work.
Last edited by Zia; 05-06-2013 at 12:56 AM.
Impeccable
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:55 AM)
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Valve can do no wro... oh.
jbug617
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

I would like to note that Talisman Prologue was quite good, and it's a popular board game from Games Workshop that has even appeared on The Big Bang Theory so it's not like something no one would want here.

Dave Lang said on Giantbomb they were also having problems with Greenlight in regards to Divekick. It was about not getting picked but having a good amount of votes.
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(05-06-2013, 12:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Miles Quaritch

Huh, what could the reason for this be? Seems silly. Are they worried about the service being bombarded with garbage or something?

I still don't see how this would fit with that concern though.

It's a Games Workshop boardgame. You know, the people who make Warhammer.
Valnen
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Meelow

Valve really is starting to become part of the big 4.

Hell it sounds like Sony has indies handled better than Valve at this point for next gen. That should be horribly embarrassing for them. The only thing they're good for at this point is sales.
A good poster
Banned
(05-06-2013, 12:55 AM)

Originally Posted by Miles Quaritch

Huh, what could the reason for this be? Seems silly. Are they worried about the service being bombarded with garbage or something?

Who cares if it does get bombarded. It goes against Valve's vision of letting the user control the marketplace. It makes no sense.
nerdstick
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by linko9

I just cannot fathom why Valve thinks this greenlight thing is a good idea. Good, established developers, and promising new games get shafted while dodgy crap gets voted through (along with good stuff, of course). Leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

Was super hyped to play Gunz 2, waited until April 18th's Greenlight list..only to see a Slender clone and already-available Elsword. What a load. Screw Valve.
Miles Quaritch
lemme stick dat Red Ring
(05-06-2013, 12:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by gngf123

Nowadays, yeah pretty much. Unless you have had a game on Steam before, Greenlight is about the only way.

Valve need to change things. Greenlight is a good concept that is currently hurting more than it is helping.

Sounds like they've taken a page out of Microsoft's playbook with green light.
Toma
Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
(05-06-2013, 12:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zia

I guess they think it would set a precedent, if successful, where developers with really polished games would seek publishers and leave Greenlight an XBLIG-style wasteland? Don't know, but there's very little I like about Greenlight.

Yeah, this probably. But overall it still would HURT Valve all that much, since publishers would still try to get good games on the service that actually sell for them. >_>
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(05-06-2013, 12:57 AM)
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Damn, I'll admit I had the wrong idea of how Greenlight works. I just thought it was a way for indies to get their games on steam when they don't have the backing previously. I didn't know that Greenlight was meant for ALL indie products, and that they have to go through some trial period to get a spot on the store.

That's just unfortunate.
Odrion
The reasons were sound.
(05-06-2013, 12:57 AM)
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Now I'm starting to think that Valve is actively trying to bottleneck indie games coming onto their service. Are they afraid they'll saturate their marketplace?

Originally Posted by gngf123

Nowadays, yeah pretty much. Unless you have had a game on Steam before,

Nope, there's been several instances of devs that had games on Steam before being told that they need to go on Greenlight.
gngf123
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

Hell it sounds like Sony has indies handled better than Valve at this point for next gen. That should be horribly embarrassing for them. The only thing they're good for at this point is sales.

and Nintendo.

Really, the only one who handles indies worse than Valve at the moment is Microsoft. Even then, you could make an argument for Microsoft being better. (Although that is really pushing it, I don't actually believe this).
Last edited by gngf123; 05-06-2013 at 01:09 AM.
SolarPowered
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

Hell it sounds like Sony has indies handled better than Valve at this point for next gen. That should be horribly embarrassing for them. The only thing they're good for at this point is sales.

Yeah, this is not a good look at all.

Originally Posted by gngf123

and Nintendo.

Really, the only one who handles indies worse than Valve at the moment is Microsoft. Even then, you could make an argument for Microsoft being better.

Yeah... no.
EuropeOG
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:59 AM)
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Greenlight is shit.
A good poster
Banned
(05-06-2013, 12:59 AM)
I have not heard one good thing about Greenlight since its inception. Has Valve responded to any of the negative feedback?
Randdalf
Member
(05-06-2013, 12:59 AM)
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Surely the intention here is to level the playing field? Probably not the best way to go about it though...
Miles Quaritch
lemme stick dat Red Ring
(05-06-2013, 01:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

I still don't see how this would fit with that concern though.

It's a Games Workshop boardgame. You know, the people who make Warhammer.

This is why I find it strange. Were Nomad just unlucky to be lumped into the same pile as other, not do great games or are we only getting half the story?

It's a very strange situation, certainly not one I ever expected to see from Valve.

Originally Posted by A good poster

Who cares if it does get bombarded. It goes against Valve's vision of letting the user control the marketplace. It makes no sense.

Indeed.
rockx4
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:00 AM)
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It's amazing how shitty Greenlight has turned out to be.
haikira
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:00 AM)
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Didn't valve say they were doing away with Greenlight, or am i going crazy?
Outtrigger888
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:00 AM)
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How hard is it getting games on the EShop compared to steam? It seems a lot of indies are interested in the wiiu.
Blizzard
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by A good poster

Why the hell would they do that? Does every small indie game have to go through Greenlight?

Originally Posted by Nirolak

Apparently?

Not true in some cases. In one or two cases, developers with existing games had to go through Greenlight the second time. On the other hand, Feep got through with no Greenlight on his second game, no publisher involved either time (first time was before Greenlight).
gngf123
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Odrion

Nope, there's been several instances of devs that had games on Steam before being told that they need to go on Greenlight.

First I have heard of this. I've seen Valve forcing things like The Longest Journey through Greenlight though.

Originally Posted by SolarPowered

Yeah... no.

Yeah, maybe I was pushing it.
Last edited by gngf123; 05-06-2013 at 01:10 AM.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by SolarPowered

Greenlight is the worst thing to come out of Steam.

Fucking hell

Seriously. It's sad when good games have to be begging people for votes when fucking War Z is still up because they were 'grandfathered'.
HoodWinked
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:02 AM)
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its the indie support cycle.

XBLA/XNA first, steam second, sony third, nintendo forth?

start off by welcoming indie developers
indie developers feel like they're important
indies flock to that platform
platform gets overwhelmed with indie games has to budget their digital store fronts.
have to put up release gates and screening process
indies trash platform
indies move on to next platform
the cycle continues
grimshawish
Banned
(05-06-2013, 01:02 AM)
What the actual fuck? I worry Valve don't want too much cheap content competing with F2P and their microtransaction model frankly...

So fucking bizarre.
Blizzard
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:03 AM)
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By the way! If anyone has a Greenlight dev account and wants to ask some of the Valve people directly about this sort of thing, check this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547420 It's coming up in two days.
Tallshortman
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:03 AM)
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I always found it dodgy that valve started using greenlight to basically outsource their own damn jobs for free. While the idea of getting lesser known indie games through is good, they really started abusing it by basically cutting the job of looking through some reputable indies by farming it out to to the community.
Zoramon089
Banned
(05-06-2013, 01:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Outtrigger888

How hard is it getting games on the EShop compared to steam? It seems a lot of indies are interested in the wiiu.

1. Become approved dev
2. Make game
3. Get game approved
Green Biker Dude
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:03 AM)
this is like people complaining dlc has to be sold directly via steam. what would be the point of having the system in place if people can just bypass it like that?

valve needs to fix greenlight or find a better way to let games into the store. they rely way too much on the community and ai aided systems because they don't want to pay more people, but at the same time, it's understandable that they have a system and can't just let people go around it easily
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(05-06-2013, 01:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Miles Quaritch

This is why I find it strange. Were Nomad just unlucky to be lumped into the same pile as other, not do great games or are we only getting half the story?

It's a very strange situation, certainly not one I ever expected to see from Valve.

Nomad is a studio formed of people from THQ's shutdown studios who made games like Juiced and some of their digital initiatives.
Hofmann
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by gngf123

Nowadays, yeah pretty much. Unless you have had a game on Steam before, Greenlight is about the only way.

I remember reading somewhere that Kairo has been released on Steam outside of greenlighting procedure. So there are exceptions to the rule.
A good poster
Banned
(05-06-2013, 01:04 AM)

Originally Posted by Blizzard

By the way! If anyone has a Greenlight dev account and wants to ask some of the Valve people directly about this sort of thing, check this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547420 It's coming up in two days.

It'd be great if everyone in that chat just tells them how much it sucks.
Meelow
Banned
(05-06-2013, 01:05 AM)

Originally Posted by Valnen

Hell it sounds like Sony has indies handled better than Valve at this point for next gen. That should be horribly embarrassing for them. The only thing they're good for at this point is sales.

How did both Nintendo and Sony end up being better players in the Indie game than Valve?

This is why nobody should try to predict the gaming industry because it's impossible.
DiscoJer
Junior Member
(05-06-2013, 01:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

Hell it sounds like Sony has indies handled better than Valve at this point for next gen. That should be horribly embarrassing for them. The only thing they're good for at this point is sales.

People only see the good side of Sony and indies. For the bad side, look at Playstation Mobile.
Platy
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:05 AM)
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A friend pointed me an interesting point : WHICH 2 publishers ?

Barely indie publishers or EA like publishers ?
Wallach
Member
(05-06-2013, 01:05 AM)
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This "service" fucking sucks and has since it was implemented.

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