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SUPREME1
Banned
(05-07-2013, 09:16 PM)
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A black co-worker just said this about Africans in Africa. It blew my mind.


Backstory:

We were bullshitting talking about what we're going to get our wives for Mother's Day. He told me to get her some diamonds. I laughed and said it wasn't even an option. He said diamonds are forever. I answered that I didn't want anything to do with blood diamonds. He asked 'why not?' and I said I didn't want it on my conscience that some kids probably lost their hands over it. He asked why I cared and I said because we're all humans and we should care about our people... to which he dropped:

"Those aren't our people. They sold us into slavery."


My jaw dropped and I was just trying to process what he had just said. He then said "It's true."

I'm actually still trying to process it. I mean, is this a thing?

I always thought the slave trading whites and the African chiefs (who agreed to trade/sell slaves) were the ones who were to blame. Was I just being naive in thinking it was that simple?


Anyone want to chime in?
Jarmel
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(05-07-2013, 09:17 PM)
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He's right about the blood diamonds.
t-ramp
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(05-07-2013, 09:18 PM)
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Doesn't make much sense to me. That was a long time ago, and I think slaves would have been taken with or without native cooperation.
xbhaskarx
(05-07-2013, 09:18 PM)
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Thanks Obama
SUPREME1
Banned
(05-07-2013, 09:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jarmel

He's right about the blood diamonds.


I was the one taliking about blood diamonds. He didn't care about them suffering, because they sold his people into slavery.
Jarmel
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(05-07-2013, 09:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by SUPREME1

I was the one taliking about blood diamonds. He didn't care about them suffering, because they sold his people into slavery.

His point was, why should you care?
SnakeswithLasers
If I want to pay a black man $20 to suck him off in a public bathroom, by God and Country, I SHALL.
(05-07-2013, 09:19 PM)
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The leaders needed a good economic model and selling people into slavery was a lot more convenient than anything else.

So, you're more right than him?
BertramCooper
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(05-07-2013, 09:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by SUPREME1

I always thought the slave trading whites and the African chiefs (who agreed to trade/sell slaves) were the ones who were to blame. Was I just being naive in thinking it was that simple?

Everyone responsible has been dead for centuries.
speculawyer
clairvoyancy is no excuse for trollin'
(05-07-2013, 09:20 PM)
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Sounds like a good way to rationalize not giving a shit about current Africans.

Yeah as if some young kid today had anothing to do with the slave trade 150+ years go.
CornBurrito
Member
(05-07-2013, 09:20 PM)
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Out of curiosity does he happen to identify as Christian or some other religion that is big on "sins of the fathers pass to the children"?

Originally Posted by Jarmel

His point was, why should you care?

Why shouldn't you care? It isn't like a computer or phone. It is really easy to get by in life without buying a diamond.
RiZ III
Member
(05-07-2013, 09:20 PM)
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It's true though. Those child laborers in the diamond mines sold his ancestors to slave traders.
Devolution
the fabulous one
(05-07-2013, 09:20 PM)

Originally Posted by SUPREME1

I was the one taliking about blood diamonds. He didn't care about them suffering, because they sold his people into slavery.

He sounds like a dumbass frankly. First of all is he even from the Congo, much of the slave trade wasn't even out of there. Secondly the people who did that are long dead. I'd just stop associating with someone so fucking stupid.
Count Dookkake
Member
(05-07-2013, 09:21 PM)
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A little bit right and a little bit wrong.

Those Africans who participated in the selling of their own people to Westerners are not alive anymore. But to put the blame only on the "chiefs" is a bit short-sighted. The boss is usually outnumbered by his subordinates.
Ferrio
real-time lotion physics
(05-07-2013, 09:21 PM)
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Can we just agree diamonds are stupid no matter how they're obtained?
UltimaPooh
Member
(05-07-2013, 09:21 PM)

Originally Posted by SUPREME1

A black co-worker just said this about Africans in Africa. It blew my mind.


Backstory:

We were bullshitting talking about what we're going to get our wives for Mother's Day. He told me to get her some diamonds. I laughed and said it wasn't even an option. He said diamonds are forever. I answered that I didn't want anything to do with blood diamonds. He asked 'why not?' and I said I didn't want it on my conscience that some kids probably lost their hands over it. He asked why I cared and I said because we're all humans and we should care about our people... to which he dropped:

"Those aren't our people. They sold us into slavery."


My jaw dropped and I was just trying to process what he had just said. He then said "It's true."

I'm actually still trying to process it. I mean, is this a thing?

I always thought the slave trading whites and the African chiefs (who agreed to trade/sell slaves) were the ones who were to blame. Was I just being naive in thinking it was that simple?


Anyone want to chime in?

Yeah it's true.

But your philosophy is the correct one in regards to general worldviews (ie we're all humans.)
CornBurrito
Member
(05-07-2013, 09:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by UltimaPooh

Yeah it's true.

"They sold us into slavery" is factually incorrect. The children did not send either the OP or his friend into slavery. Their ancestors may have sold their ancestors into slavery. That's a very different statement.
Fantasmo
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(05-07-2013, 09:23 PM)
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I'm not going to make a judgement call either way, that's for you to decide. I'll just say that this is a great way to think yourself into insanity.
Hermii
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(05-07-2013, 09:24 PM)
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That sounds like incredibly stupid revisionist history. I guess the indians wiped out themselves too.

Edit: even if it was true, it shoudnt matter today. we dont hate germany or japan and that is much more recent history. Vietnam doesnt hate America. And so on.
Last edited by Hermii; 05-07-2013 at 09:31 PM.
Jarmel
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(05-07-2013, 09:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by CornBurrito

Why shouldn't you care? It isn't like a computer or phone. It is really easy to get by in life without buying a diamond.

If you're going to be that overly concerned about the origin point of your goods, there is a very long list of goods you need to be boycotting.
Count Dookkake
Member
(05-07-2013, 09:24 PM)
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If you want to stir the pot, remind him that he probably has the DNA of some slave owner.

So is he his people or not?

Also, which god does he worship?
CornBurrito
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(05-07-2013, 09:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jarmel

If you're going to be that overly concerned about the origin point of your goods, there is a very long list of goods you need to be boycotting.

Way to casually ignore the fact that it is extremely easy to avoid buying diamonds.

I don't let perfection be the enemy of good. Sorry that you do. It takes no effort to avoid buying diamonds. It would take a lot of effort to avoid buying any product that had shady origins.
ToxicAdam
Banned
(05-07-2013, 09:25 PM)
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Maybe his ancestor was a real asshole and couldn't get along with the tribe?
Plywood
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(05-07-2013, 09:25 PM)
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Don't bring it up again, the conversation can only go downhill from here.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
(05-07-2013, 09:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by ToxicAdam

Maybe his ancestor was a real asshole and couldn't get along with the tribe?

This is Wimp Lo, we sold him into slavery. As a joke.
BobbyRobby
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(05-07-2013, 09:27 PM)
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i was pretty surprised when i first encountered resentment of africans coming from american blacks. i remember this one coworker describing a guy, saying he was gorgeous, and the model man, but the fact he was african was a dealbreaker.

it was weird because i'm used to white girls thinking europeans are exotic and super-romantic.
Last edited by BobbyRobby; 05-07-2013 at 09:34 PM.
Jarmel
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(05-07-2013, 09:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by CornBurrito

Way to casually ignore the fact that it is extremely easy to avoid buying diamonds.

I don't let perfection be the enemy of good. Sorry that you do.

There's a lot of regular consumer goods that people buy that they could live without, that are made in horrendous conditions. Do people think where that Disney merchandise they picked up for their kids comes from?
Alligatorjandro
PONY UP, BITCH
(05-07-2013, 09:27 PM)
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He's right that they might not be his people.
CornBurrito
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(05-07-2013, 09:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jarmel

There's a lot of regular consumer goods that people buy that they could live without, that are made in horrendous conditions. Do people think where that Disney merchandise they picked up for their kids comes from?

I don't buy Disney merchandise. I'll admit that most people don't think about it.

Why shouldn't they think about it though? You seem to be justifying not caring because "everybody else is not caring." or "its just too hard to not buy an overpriced diamond for my girl."
RoH
Member
(05-07-2013, 09:29 PM)

Originally Posted by Devolution

He sounds like a dumbass frankly. First of all is he even from the Congo, much of the slave trade wasn't even out of there. Secondly the people who did that are long dead. I'd just stop associating with someone so fucking stupid.

I'm not too sure about that, I mean we in the united states still penalize peoples for actions taken by other people long since dead--- Do all diamonds in Africa come from the Congo?
CHEEZMO™
Obsidian fan
(05-07-2013, 09:31 PM)
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QED, LIEberals
Grinchy
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(05-07-2013, 09:33 PM)
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You should convince your boss to hand him off to another company who will pay him less.
Jarmel
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(05-07-2013, 09:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by CornBurrito

I don't buy Disney merchandise. I'll admit that most people don't think about it.

Why shouldn't they think about it though? You seem to be justifying not caring because "everybody else is not caring." or "its just too hard to not buy an overpriced diamond for my girl."

My point is that it's asinine to highlight blood diamonds in particular. If you start to research a lot of the conditions where much of consumer stuff comes from, it's a very depressing rabbithole. Why should the OP care about blood diamonds in particular when so much production is done in third world countries under horrid conditions?
TheOMan
Tagged as I see fit
(05-07-2013, 09:34 PM)
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Your friend is not my people. I'm guessing this isn't the first stupid thing he's said.
Tacitus_
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(05-07-2013, 09:34 PM)
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Well obviously they needed warriors to catch the other tribes people to sell. But still, this happened centuries ago and the people now living there had nothing to do with it.
Deified Data
(05-07-2013, 09:34 PM)
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So he hates those diamond miners for selling his ancestors into slavery, but holds no ill will towards OP, who probably has at least one slave owning ancestor?
phaze
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(05-07-2013, 09:35 PM)
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He is wrong to harbor a grudge about it but more or less correct about the historical fact.
Count Dookkake
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(05-07-2013, 09:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deified Data

So he hates those diamond miners for selling his ancestors into slavery, but holds no ill will towards OP, who probably has at least one slave owning ancestor?

It's far likelier that the dude has a slave-owning ancestor, than does OP.
Stinkles
sober, clothed, willing
(05-07-2013, 09:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by CHEEZMO™



QED, LIEberals

Well I guess that's that.
CornBurrito
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(05-07-2013, 09:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jarmel

My point is that it's asinine to highlight blood diamonds in particular. If you start to research a lot of the conditions where much of consumer stuff comes from, it's a very depressing rabbithole. Why should the OP care about blood diamonds in particular when so much production is done in third world countries under horrid conditions?

It is only asinine if you demand an all or nothing response.

Again, you let perfection be the enemy of good. I see no reason why you must demand someone to give up ALL immoral practices or none at all.
AkuMifune
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(05-07-2013, 09:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jarmel

My point is that it's asinine to highlight blood diamonds in particular. If you start to research a lot of the conditions where much of consumer stuff comes from, it's a very depressing rabbithole. Why should the OP care about blood diamonds in particular when so much production is done in third world countries under horrid conditions?

It's a good starting point for a lot of people since society places such a huge emphasis on diamond engagement rings, which is something most people have to deal with personally at some point, either giving or receiving.

And then giving or receiving.
Jarmel
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(05-07-2013, 09:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Count Dookkake

It's far likelier that the dude has a slave-owning ancestor, than does OP.

This is unfortunately true but that's probably from cases of slave masters raping their slaves.
Alligatorjandro
PONY UP, BITCH
(05-07-2013, 09:38 PM)
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He should just blame white people.
Jarmel
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(05-07-2013, 09:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by CornBurrito

It is only asinine if you demand an all or nothing response.

Again, you let perfection be the enemy of good. I see no reason why you must demand someone to give up ALL immoral practices or none at all.

Never did I say all or nothing. Does he care about the origin point for any of the other stuff he buys?
Reuenthal
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(05-07-2013, 09:39 PM)
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Presumably he is a black American and I agree that Africans are not his people but Americans are. Of course I also agree with the point of view of seeing other humans as people whose problems deserve empathy and sort of our people. But people also tend to self identify more with well the nation and society they are part of.

However his reasoning is pretty stupid. If you judge people for the bad things their ancestors did there is probably not even one group you will find acceptable even those you belong in because most of us have ancestors who did some pretty bad shit. Just don't blame people now for crimes of the past. Of course aknowledging the historical truth is not a bad idea.
Last edited by Reuenthal; 05-07-2013 at 10:01 PM.
-Eddman-
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(05-07-2013, 09:39 PM)
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People living in Africa right now are not the same people who dealt with slavery, black people in america right now are not the slaves anymore. His argument is really stupid.
Seanspeed
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(05-07-2013, 09:39 PM)
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People sometimes get idealistic notions in their head and run with em.
Sendou
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(05-07-2013, 09:42 PM)

Originally Posted by -Eddman-

People living in Africa right now are not the same people who dealt with slavery, black people in america right now are not the slaves anymore. His argument is really stupid.

Well this.

And yes European white male wasn't the only one who benefited from the slave trade. Africa was very tribe centered back then (even more so than today) and the tribes were very warlike. They preferred European weapons in exchance for slaves. Which resulted in more wars and slaves (slaves being most commonly captured from enemy tribes)
CornBurrito
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(05-07-2013, 09:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jarmel

Never did I say all or nothing. Does he care about the origin point for any of the other stuff he buys?

Even if he doesn't why can't he selectively care about blood diamonds?

You ARE saying it has to be all or nothing.
SnakeswithLasers
If I want to pay a black man $20 to suck him off in a public bathroom, by God and Country, I SHALL.
(05-07-2013, 09:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Count Dookkake

A little bit right and a little bit wrong.

Those Africans who participated in the selling of their own people to Westerners are not alive anymore. But to put the blame only on the "chiefs" is a bit short-sighted. The boss is usually outnumbered by his subordinates.

I think the implication of the OP's 'friend' is that most Africans who remain in Africa have ancestors who were actively and profitably involved in the slave trade. That's not true. It was an economy by the 'haves' against the 'have nots'--not much different from the modern blood diamond economy. Of course it wasn't 'just the chiefs,' but it was far from the majority profession--most people just moved inland to try to avoid the slavers and are still suffering for it.

It's like the OP's great grand kids will be arguing about not caring for the people in Africa who are being harvested for their organs to feed aliens because, "those Africans are the same ones who exploited my ancestors for blood diamonds."
GTP_Daverytimes
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(05-07-2013, 09:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by BobbyRobby

i was pretty surprised when i first encountered resentment of africans coming from american blacks. i remember this one coworker describing a guy, saying he was gorgeous, and the model man, but the fact he was african was a dealbreaker.

Most Africans coming from Africa always think they can identify with American Blacks because they have the same skin color, imagine the surprise when we come to America to find out that both Whites and Blacks alike join hands in making fun of Africans. I didn't expect for so many of the blacks i met to be ignorant about Africa, as time went on however i was able to understand that even though they had the same skin color they have become so far removed from the continent that it was an insult to Black-Americans themselves to be called "African-Americans".

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