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twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(05-23-2013, 09:30 PM)
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Article title is not a joke.

LEGIONS of disembodied brains floating in deep space threaten to undermine our understanding of the universe. New mathematical modelling suggests string theory and its multiple universes may just provide our salvation – and that could win the controversial theory a few more backers.

Physicists have dreamed up some bizarre ideas over the years, but a decade or so ago they outdid themselves with the concept of Boltzmann brains – fully formed, conscious entities that form spontaneously in outer space.

It may seem impossible for a brain to blink into existence, but the laws of physics don't rule it out entirely. All it requires is a vast amount of time. Eventually, a random chunk of matter and energy will happen to come together in the form of a working mind. It's the same logic that says a million monkeys working on a million typewriters will replicate the complete works of Shakespeare, if you leave them long enough.

Most models of the future predict that the universe will expand exponentially forever. That will eventually spawn inconceivable numbers of Boltzmann brains, far outnumbering every human who has ever, or will ever, live.

This means that, over the entire history of the universe, it is the Boltzmann brains' experience of the universe and not ours that is typical. That's a problem, because the starting point for our understanding of the universe and its behaviour is that humans are typical observers. If we are not, our theories begin to look iffy.

"It has to be more likely to be an ordinary observer than a Boltzmann brain," says Claire Zukowski at the University of California, Berkeley.

A particular problem is that most Boltzmann brains will exist in the far future when the universe is no more than an inky void, with a past indistinguishable from the future. This would make our experience of time's arrow highly unusual.

However, if we can demonstrate that the universe has a finite lifespan, that would deny Boltzmann brains the infinite time they need to outnumber us. String theory might be able to help, says Zukowski, who has been studying the problem as part of her PhD research with Raphael Bousso, also at Berkeley.

More at the link: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...in-threat.html

This is the most fucking bizarre thing I have read for like a year. No surprises it's from Berkeley.

Mock if old, but it will not save you from the space brains.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
(05-23-2013, 09:34 PM)
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you know, this kinda makes sense to me.
Dany
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:35 PM)
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Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
(05-23-2013, 09:36 PM)
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just remember scooty puff jr sucks
B-Dubs
No Scrubs
(05-23-2013, 09:36 PM)
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EDIT: Shit I got beat to it
wenis
Registered for GAF on September 11, 2001.
(05-23-2013, 09:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by John Dunbar

yoou know, this kinda makes sense to me.

Makes a little too much sense...

The Smoking Bun
Banned
(05-23-2013, 09:38 PM)


OH SHIT!!


This is what happens when you have a cartoon show made by physics majors!
Last edited by The Smoking Bun; 05-23-2013 at 09:41 PM.
Cyan
Red
(05-23-2013, 09:39 PM)
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Boltzmann brains aren't a Berkeley thing, dude. Though I'll grant that the notion is odd and not a little confusing.
Kud Dukan
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:39 PM)
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Good, I can't tell you how many sleepless nights I've had thinking about the space brain threat.
Hitokage
Setec Astronomer
(05-23-2013, 09:40 PM)
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Reading this I cannot help but suspect drugs were involved in the discussion.
hal9001
Banned
(05-23-2013, 09:40 PM)
Uh...so kind of like astral projection then?
Log4Girlz
(05-23-2013, 09:40 PM)
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I randomly materialized in space. Fuck you string theory.
DarkKyo
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rygar 8 Bit

just remember scooty puff jr sucks

Hahaha, amazing.
Newline
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:41 PM)
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Surely brains in outerspace wouldnt live very long.
Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
(05-23-2013, 09:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kud Dukan

Good, I can't tell you how many sleepless nights I've had thinking about the space brain threat.

i to often find myself waking in the middle of the night covered in sweat screaming about the space brain menace
Fenderputty
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:41 PM)
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What part of science says a Boltzmann brain exists or can exist? I'm assuming quantum physics? Doesn’t quantum physics say that anything is possible given enough time? Why is it more likely that a Boltzmann brain will pop into existence than say roger rabbit? Is It more likely? Are we going to be outnumbered by cartoon rabbits as well in the very distant future?
phazedplasma
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:42 PM)
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Heath Huston has something to say about that!

K.Sabot
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:42 PM)
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I don't know if this stuff came from lack of funding or a surplus of funding.
MisterHero
Super Member
(05-23-2013, 09:43 PM)
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You can't negotiate with space brains. They're unraisanable.
Pinko Marx
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(05-23-2013, 09:43 PM)
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PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
(05-23-2013, 09:44 PM)
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This is just the fermi paradox on a grander scale with brains instead of galactic civilizations. Still a cool discussion.
wenis
Registered for GAF on September 11, 2001.
(05-23-2013, 09:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by K.Sabot

I don't know if this stuff came from lack of funding or a surplus of funding.

An eighth is only like 40-50 bucks man.
Fragamemnon
The Man. The Myth.
The Legend.
(05-23-2013, 09:44 PM)
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"Eventually" is a pretty damn loaded term in cosmology.

Heat death is a thing (even localized if you buy into rate of change of max entropy allowable in theuniverse > rate of entropy) and calculations in anything considered a brain will require some kind of physical action to happen. So you're looking at the expected total of brains to form in the universe (given that creation of a brain is purely probalistic function vs. time) over a period of time in which they actually can theoretically form and function.
Rodney McKay
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:44 PM)
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I really don't know about some of these theories, I really don't.

I one hand I understand that given an infinite amount of time it is technically possible for ANYTHING, no matter how unlikely, to eventually occur (assuming that it doesn't actively break the laws of physics as we know them).

But on the other hand this could mean that that EVENTUALLY the random light from a star bouncing off of a gas nebula could, from a certain angle, perfectly replicate the entire movie of Spider Man 3. And I don't want to live in a universe where that is possible
Secret Fawful
(05-23-2013, 09:45 PM)
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This is.....how likely....?
TUSR
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:45 PM)
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what the fuck is this?
Stinkles
Clothed, sober, cooperative
(05-23-2013, 09:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by godelsmetric

Article title is not a joke.



More at the link: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...in-threat.html

This is the most fucking bizarre thing I have read for like a year. No surprises it's from Berkeley.

Mock if old, but it will not save you from the space brains.

what the actual fuck
blame space
King of Members with nice chair, nice beard, nice wall hooks, broken TV, clean phone, and a red username.
(05-23-2013, 09:45 PM)
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brains huh
Grinchy
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:46 PM)
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Will this make more sense if I get stoned?
GentlemanCrow
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:47 PM)
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Sweet jesus...
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(05-23-2013, 09:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cyan

Boltzmann brains aren't a Berkeley thing, dude. Though I'll grant that the notion is odd and not a little confusing.

Yeah, just this latest thing. I get the idea, it's just, man, wat.
MORT1S
Junior Member
(05-23-2013, 09:48 PM)

Originally Posted by GentlemanCrow

Sweet zombie jesus...

Fixed that for you!
Byronic Hero
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dany M

Originally Posted by B-Dubs

.

Originally Posted by The Smoking Bun

.

OH SHIT!!


This is what happens when you have a cartoon show made by physics majors!

Originally Posted by Pinko Marx

.

Seriously the first thing that popped into my head after reading the thread title.
timetokill
Banned
(05-23-2013, 09:50 PM)
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Eventually, a random chunk of matter and energy will happen to come together in the form of a working mind.

Doesn't this imply that eventually a Boltzmann brain-eating entity, say a Boltzmann zombie of some sort, would also randomly appear? If so I think we'll be safe.
moniker
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:50 PM)
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I used to think about this stuff. Consciousness emerging in patterns. With enough nodes/computers (which would be the equivalent of neurons in the brain), maybe the internet will become conscious. Hell who knows, maybe it already is.
TUSR
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by timetokill

Doesn't this imply that eventually a Boltzmann brain-eating entity, say a Boltzmann zombie of some sort, would also randomly appear? If so I think we'll be safe.

hahahaha
Kevtones
Member
(05-23-2013, 09:51 PM)
sounds like a Futurama plotline
Secret Fawful
(05-23-2013, 09:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by timetokill

Doesn't this imply that eventually a Boltzmann brain-eating entity, say a Boltzmann zombie of some sort, would also randomly appear? If so I think we'll be safe.

We're obligated as a sentient species to save the Boltzmann brains.
Veronica
Banned
(05-23-2013, 09:51 PM)

It's the same logic that says a million monkeys working on a million typewriters will replicate the complete works of Shakespeare, if you leave them long enough.

This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read.
Hitokage
Setec Astronomer
(05-23-2013, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cyan

Boltzmann brains aren't a Berkeley thing, dude. Though I'll grant that the notion is odd and not a little confusing.

Oh, I see, it's an argument that arose when steady-state cosmology was the rage. Nowadays our notion of the universe is finite but expanding with a corresponding increase in entropy rather than infinite and static which doesn't account for entropy.
Last edited by Hitokage; 05-23-2013 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Misread info and it made sense so I posted.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(05-23-2013, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by timetokill

Doesn't this imply that eventually a Boltzmann brain-eating entity, say a Boltzmann zombie of some sort, would also randomly appear? If so I think we'll be safe.

This implies that everything will spontaneously pop into existence sooner or later, which is an implication of this stuff that doesn't usually seem to come up that much.

All I know is I want an Infinite Improbability Drive
Mudkips
Banned
(05-23-2013, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cyan

Boltzmann brains aren't a Berkeley thing, dude. Though I'll grant that the notion is odd and not a little confusing.

Odd, confusing, and complete bullshit. Evolved brains are far, far, far, far, far more likely than Boltzmann brains, and would vastly outnumber them.

If the Universe is infinite in time and space, and if it has low enough entropy at certain points to pop a Boltzmann brain into existence you'll get an infinite number of Boltzmann brains, sure. They'll also be distributed so sparsely that statistically no evolved brain would ever have to worry about encountering one.
Idde
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(05-23-2013, 09:52 PM)
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Most models of the future predict that the universe will expand exponentially forever. That will eventually spawn inconceivable numbers of Boltzmann brains, far outnumbering every human who has ever, or will ever, live.

Euh, doesn't this mean that it will eventually spawn an inconceivable number of human brains as well? Or at least more human brains than space brains? What are the chances of space brains forming, versus human brains? And aren't we like...7 billion brains ahead? Brains.
Last edited by Idde; 05-23-2013 at 09:55 PM.
V_Arnold
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(05-23-2013, 09:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Veronica

This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read.

In that case, all you need to do is sit down long enough and think about what it implies, and then, eventually, it will make sense.
twobear
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(05-23-2013, 09:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hitokage

Oh, I see, it's an argument that arose when steady-state cosmology was the rage. Nowadays our notion of the universe is finite but expanding rather than infinite and static.

I don't think so, I think it's a relatively recent, uhh, theory. As long as the universe exists for an infinite amount of time, the probability of any physically possible event occurring approaches 1.

E.g. Boltzmann brains, that recent thing about metastable vacuums, Rihanna making a good album.
Last edited by twobear; 05-23-2013 at 09:57 PM.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(05-23-2013, 09:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Idde

Euh, doesn't this mean that it will eventually spawn an inconceivable number of human brains as well? Or at least more human brains than space brains? What are the chances of space brains forming, versus human brains? And aren't we like...7 billion brains ahead? Brains.

Pretty sure these space brains are just arrangements of matter and energy that are capable of energy manipulation patterns analogous to what we consider thought. So they are more probable then spontaneous human brains in that spontaneous human brains are several degrees more complex due to all of the chemical and biological stuff. There probably is a way of making something with the function of a neuron, for example, that doesn't have to have all the complex biological molecules that make up a human neuron.
SnakeswithLasers
If I want to pay a black man $20 to suck him off in a public bathroom, by God and Country, I SHALL.
(05-23-2013, 09:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cyan

Boltzmann brains aren't a Berkeley thing, dude. Though I'll grant that the notion is odd and not a little confusing.

The article is about people at Cal who are doing the research about String theory to deny the Boltzmann brains.
Monocle
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(05-23-2013, 09:59 PM)
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If Boltzmann brains can be a thing, so can naturally occurring space dicks. Space dicks would definitely be less physically complex than Boltzmann brains, which means they should be more common. What if space dicks fill up space before Boltzmann brains have a chance to spawn? What then?

Someone please ask Michio Kaku about the looming threat of space dicks.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
(05-23-2013, 09:59 PM)
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It doesn't have to be a brain, right? Can it be billions of giant, sentient schlongs?

edit: wut
TUSR
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(05-23-2013, 10:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by V_Arnold

In that case, all you need to do is sit down long enough and think about what it implies, and then, eventually, it will make sense.

that space brains are going to appear and threaten human life unless we discover that string theory is correc?

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