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gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(05-24-2013, 11:30 AM)
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http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publi...retail/0116137

A gamer walks into a retailer and hands over the game they wish to sell. This will only be possible at retailers who have agreed to Microsoft’s T&Cs and more importantly integrated Microsoft’s cloud-based Azure pre-owned system into its own.

The game is then registered as having been trade-in on Microsoft’s system. The consumer who handed it over will subsequently see the game wiped from their account – hence the until now ambiguous claim from Phil Harrison that the Xbox One would have to ‘check in’ to Microsoft’s servers every 24 hours.


The retailer can then sell the pre-owned game at whatever price they like, although as part of the system the publisher of the title in question will automatically receive a percentage cut of the sale. As will Microsoft. The retailer will pocket the rest.

Pretty much exactly what I and a couple of other posters were suggesting in another thread. Not code based though by the sounds of it.

--

Update:

Unconfirmed reports on ConsoleDeals.co.uk suggest that retail’s slice will be as little as ten per cent. That’s a significant cut from what it has become accustomed to from pre-owned sales and more in line with what they would receive from the sale of a new game – hence, the value of the pre-owned market to the retailer is effectively destroyed.

These same unconfirmed reports also suggest that the activation cost for consumers buying or borrowing pre-owned software will be 35.

UPDATE: Many readers are asking whether the 35 will be additional cost on top of the price of buying the game. No, we believe that the 35 figure – which is not our number, incidentally – would cover the entire transaction. If correct this would leave retail with a cut per sale of around 3.50.

Update 2:

Originally Posted by Maximilian Kolbe

Eurogamer have a huge update about this

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ork-apparently
Update: You, the shopper, won't have to pay the activation fee for a used Xbox One game - the shop will. Therefore, the price you see on a second-hand Xbox One game in a shop is the price you'll pay to be able to play it.

That's what a high-ranking UK industry source explained to me this afternoon.

The reason there's all this confusion is because Microsoft hasn't decided what the activation fee will be yet. The 35 figure reported in the story below sounds too high - perhaps it includes the shop's sale price as well.

My source confirmed that part of that activation fee will go to a publisher and part to Microsoft.


What this means for second-hand games is that Microsoft effectively controls how much they cost, because it controls the activation fee. Whether that fee will move up or down or diminish over time isn't clear. But it does mean second-hand games will probably be more expensive than they are now.

My source didn't know what Sony was up to but doubts the PlayStation maker will do the same thing, not because it's angelic but because it lacks the kind of pricey infrastructure something like this requires.

Last edited by Nirolak; 05-24-2013 at 05:44 PM.
Nero3000
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:31 AM)
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Seems fair.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
(05-24-2013, 11:32 AM)

Originally Posted by gofreak

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publi...retail/0116137



Pretty much exactly what I and a couple of other posters were suggesting in another thread. Not code based though by the sounds of it.

edit - if a Mod could add 'Xbox One' to the title, that'd be great :P Sorry...


Publishers Win

Retailers Win


This is something both sides of the equation can support... what, therefore is the big deal if you can still go to a major retailer and trade in your stuff?

Who cares if it is wiped from your account? You no longer have the fucking game.
hateradio
The Most Dangerous Yes Man
(05-24-2013, 11:32 AM)
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Cash for Gold.

Xbox Gold.

Originally Posted by Ninja Moomin

Publishers Win

Retailers Win


This is something both sides of the equation can support... what, therefore is the big deal if you can still go to a major retailer and trade in your stuff?

Who cares if it is wiped from your account? You no longer have the fucking game.

You can't let people borrow your games though, I guess.
Vortex566
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:32 AM)
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I guess it could work?
MuseManMike
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:32 AM)
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You mean Xbone, gofreak.
iavi
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:33 AM)
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Makes sense.
jwk94
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:33 AM)
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Sounds good.
zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(05-24-2013, 11:33 AM)
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Kills eBay and Amazon marketplace and selling the game privately.

Also, does that mean each game disc now has a unique identifier chip in it somewhere, otherwise how will the retailer know which account the traded in disc comes from? Doesn't work otherwise unless GameStop have a box in the store where people trading in games can log in and mark the games as traded or something. Very cumbersome without a unique identifier chip, also that is technology that would have to be licenced from Sony, who I'm quite sure are not selling a licence for that tech.
Last edited by zomgbbqftw; 05-24-2013 at 11:36 AM.
Addnan
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:33 AM)
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So no private sale or borrowing.
Xater
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:33 AM)
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But that does sound like I can't sell games privately. That is still shitty.

Also lending a game to a friend is still impossible.
michaelius
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:33 AM)
So the greedy gamestops of the world get their second hand sales but consumer lending/selling/giving game to friend is screwed ?
matellis
Junior Member
(05-24-2013, 11:34 AM)
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Sounds good, but will places like gamespot just increase the price of used games to cover what they will lose and pass the cost on to us? Also, how will renting work?
Last edited by matellis; 05-24-2013 at 11:36 AM. Reason: added more
Ninja Moomin
Banned
(05-24-2013, 11:34 AM)

Originally Posted by Addnan

So no private sale or borrowing.

So what? Who lends 40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?
Korezo
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
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So the seller gets screwed instead.
MuseManMike
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
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No borrowing is brutal. It will definitely mean I play fewer games -- unless there is a similar deal with companies that rent. Is there is no fee once I take the game home and try to install?
Loudninja
No oxygen in space?
How does the sun burn?
Food for thought.
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ninja Moomin

So what? Who lends 40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

Are you serious?
Kyon
Banned
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
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So basically no used games/borrowed from friends or private trading? Mess
Acheteedo
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
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As part of the system the publisher of the title in question will automatically receive a percentage cut of the sale.

Hope that's true. Generally I think that's a good thing, but maybe then we'll also get less bullshit tacked on multiplayer and pre-order bonuses.
intheinbetween
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by hateradio

Cash for Gold.

Xbox Gold.


You can't let people borrow your games though, I guess.

when you lend your game to a friend you swipe it from your accont, so your friend can add it to his, then he should be able to swipe it again from his account when he returns it to you, so you can add it back again to your account.

edit.- my bad, that can only be managed at certain retailers, what the heck?? they should let us manage that on our own!
Last edited by intheinbetween; 05-24-2013 at 11:38 AM.
Erasus
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
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This sounds okay actually. Steam should have a system like this..

All it does is prevent loaning games to a freind and I havent done that in a while.
Xater
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ninja Moomin

So what? Who lends 40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

You must have shitty friends.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ninja Moomin

Publishers Win

Retailers Win


This is something both sides of the equation can support... what, therefore is the big deal if you can still go to a major retailer and trade in your stuff?

Who cares if it is wiped from your account? You no longer have the fucking game.

Retail has a 'better than nothing' lifeline.

I think the 'big deal' for consumers is:

1) Private transactions - lending, private sales, trades - are gone under this model * except user-to-user sales through MS's online marketplace, which sees the buyer paying full price, and the seller probably only getting Xbox Dollars credit

2) The cut for MS will reduce margins for retail and thus likely reduce the trade-in value of used Xbox One games for the consumer at retail

3) It necessitates the online DRM checks

The spotlight of controversy will be on these impacts for the user.
bigboss370
Junior Member
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by zomgbbqftw

Kills eBay and Amazon marketplace and selling the game privately.

Originally Posted by Addnan

So no private sale or borrowing.

Originally Posted by Xater

But that does sound like I can't sell games privately. That is still shitty.

Also lending a game to a friend is still impossible.

exactly. and still no borrowing, lending, or renting.
bigol
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:35 AM)
So, the only difference with now is that MS and (let's say) Gamestop will track the used game market and will reward publisher?

What about the fee when we buy a used game? No fee?

Oh, and no private selling through ebay or other means, i guess
or maybe ebay will agree with MS and signal them when we sold a game as used
Last edited by bigol; 05-24-2013 at 11:37 AM.
StreetsAhead
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:36 AM)
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Sounds awfully controlling and manipulative. And I'm not sure why Microsoft or the developers deserve the money on a used sale, but it's not as bad as it could have been. I suppose.
JonathanEx
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:36 AM)
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So you can only resell if you join their little club.

Doesn't sound fair to me.

Sure, second-hand is still possible, but I am yet to see how this situation is in any way an improvement from what we have now for the consumer.
Bojan11
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:36 AM)
This not good.

Gives retailers monopoly on what they can offer you. I usually want cash if I sell my games rather than trade in prices. I find ebay is better for that rather than retailers who offer you low cash.
Replicant
There's a duck in the room
There's a duck i-OWWWW
(05-24-2013, 11:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kyon

So basically no used games/borrowed from friends or private trading? Mess

My thoughts exactly. :/
Kyon
Banned
(05-24-2013, 11:36 AM)
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No renting
herod
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:36 AM)
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So, that's GAME and HMV dead again then.
Eusis
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(05-24-2013, 11:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ninja Moomin

So what? Who lends 40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

blu-rays are actually pretty scratch proof, I had a few pop out in scratching, seemed to be scuffed up badly, but wiped them and they were flawless afterwards. I'd honestly trust a full price PS3 title for lending over a cheap PS1 CD.

But, yeah, this pretty much cements my feelings that this is a compromise between convenience and freedom that kinda fucks over both (even though it greatly favors convenience.) They want to allow us to run games without using the disc, but in order to do so without just telling us to buy the DD version instead they have to make games authorize with a system, BUT they don't want to screw over being able to sell in your game, so now you have to dial in home very 24 hours or whatever in case you trade your game in. Yet as nice as being able to trade in a game and get money for it, the TRUE value is the long term availability of a game regardless of print run limits or whatever, and this scheme not only ruins that angle, but ruins long term ability to use the system period.
Last edited by Eusis; 05-24-2013 at 11:40 AM.
Addnan
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ninja Moomin

So what? Who lends 40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

My friends are not animals.
Mpl90
Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
(05-24-2013, 11:37 AM)
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Yeah, a solution like this would greatly limit used market (only selected retailers, online requirement) and still kill borrowing / rental / private selling. It's still horrible.
Inorigo
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(05-24-2013, 11:37 AM)
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This sounds fine to start, just curious how they loop in rental businesses.

Lending/private selling is out though. If they weren't cutting something out of the loop they wouldn't bother.
BassForever
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:37 AM)
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Sounds to me like used games will cost more.
Feorax
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(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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It makes sense to a degree, and I can see how it would work. I still don't see the point though. All of this will happen naturally when DD becomes the norm, either this generation or next, so why force it with this convoluted system?

It's still going to look really shitty if Sony doesn't follow suit.
Miles Quaritch
lemme stick dat Red Ring
(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by gofreak

Retail has a 'better than nothing' lifeline.

I think the 'big deal' for consumers is:

1) Private transactions - lending, private sales, trades - are gone under this model * except user-to-user sales through MS's online marketplace, which sees the buyer paying full price, and the seller probably only getting Xbox Dollars credit

2) The cut for MS will reduce margins for retail and thus likely reduce the trade-in value of used Xbox One games for the consumer at retail

3) It necessitates the online DRM checks

The spotlight of controversy will be on these impacts for the user.

Didn't MS say they would be addressing this at some point? I vaguely remember someone posting a quote not long after the news about pre-owned titled broke.
MuseManMike
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Acheteedo

Hope that's true. Generally I think that's a good thing, but maybe then we'll also get less bullshit tacked on multiplayer and pre-order bonuses.

Multiplayer is not only a means of combating used sales -- it is independently a way to nickel and dime via microtransations and DLC. Tacked on MP will absolutely continue into next-gen, as will pre-order bonuses, as will the costs of being digital (i.e. they will not match Steam prices on proprietary boxes). I think it'll be just like this gen except, you know, plus what's being stated here.
Infernal Monkey
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(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ninja Moomin

So what? Who lends 40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

Holy shit.
Mailenstein
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(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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Since I fon't buy used games and don't sell my games, I don't really care that much, but I do go over to friends with my game copies or borrow theirs, so this is actually a problem.
Xater
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(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mpl90

Yeah, a solution like this would greatly limit used market (only selected retailers, online requirement) and still kill borrowing / rental / private selling. It's still horrible.

Yeah nothing about this is good news. It's just slightly less terrible news.
daxgame
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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I'm confused
Sooo what if I want to sell it on ebay?
Yagharek
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(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Xater

But that does sound like I can't sell games privately. That is still shitty.

Also lending a game to a friend is still impossible.

No private sales makes it a cartel.
maquiladora
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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So Gamestop (and maybe a handful or other retailers?) will be the only place to sell your games and if you don't like the price they offer (would it be a universal price?) for it then there is nothing you can do about that, no other option to sell it anywhere else in any other way, you can't even give the game away to someone.
Erasus
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(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ninja Moomin

So what? Who lends 40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

NOW you are getting ridiculous. Blu-Rays are pretty hard to damage.
KarmaCow
Member
(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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What a god damn circus this all is.

Now I have the option of trading in my game to EB games for $10 store credit, oh glorious day.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kyon

No renting

They might have a setup for partner renters ala partner retail. The license on a game exchanged through a renter - as tracked through MS's online connection with the render - could be set to expire after the rental period even.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)

Originally Posted by Eusis

blu-rays are actually pretty scratch proof, I had a few pop out in scratching, seemed to be scuffed up badly, but wiped them and they were flawless afterwards. I'd honestly trust a full price PS3 title for lending over a cheap PS1 CD.

Sure.. i just never lend my games as every single time I have they come back with either the disc or case not being as pristine as if i had looked after it myself.

A smashed N64 cart wasn't the greatest experience either.
Unknown Soldier
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(05-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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How is this supposed to work for rental outfits like Gamefly?

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