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Hazaro
relies on auto-aim
(06-22-2013, 12:54 PM)
Hazaro's Avatar
Use Ctrl+F or your search function to help find what you are looking for

Laptop-GAF and TechSupportGAF - Visit our friends here
120/144Hz LightBoost thread - For all your low frametime (High FPS) needs
2013 High-res PC screenshot thread + PC Down / Super Sampling Thread + PC Bullshot Thread (Amazing) - Beautiful candy for your pupils
Race (and Overclock) your PC Thread - Benchmark and Overclock (With Guides) your new or old PC here
Mechanical Keyboard Talk - Talk about buying expensive and loud clacky things here
Online Security Thread - Surf safe


This OP is a constant work in progress. If you have something to correct, add, or critique please PM me or msg @HazardVG on Twitter.


10/23/2013: AMD 290X launch!
10/22/2013: Some games running under Win 8.1 have mouse lag (See links for fix)
10/18/2013: nVidia announces G-SYNC, variable refresh rates on displays (This is huge!) [Anand]
09/17/2013: Oh my god the build sheet is updated. Image. (Spreadsheet (bit.ly/GAFPC2013).
04/26/2013: Anandtech new heatsink coolers and AIO water roundup (Featuring actual good charts!)
03/28/2013: Frame times and observable FPS through FCAT will new mark a new era of benchmarking (And why you should avoid CrossFire for now). PCPER (7950 and 660Ti) // TechReport // Anandtech
08/04/2012: Two useful cooling articles: Case Fan Temps and Positioning - (Bit-Tech), 60 Fans Tested (Vortez)



If you want help with a build fill this out AND try making one of your own from the resources in the OP :)
Use PCPartPicker to find the best prices and have a nice list of parts (Check if items are in stock!). I highly recommend Amazon, Newegg, and NCIXUS in North America.

Basic Desktop Questions:
  • Your Current Specs: CPU / RAM / Motherboard / GPU (Graphics) / PSU (Power Supply) / Case / HDD (Hard Drive)
  • Budget: Price Range + Country
  • Main Use: Rate 1-5. 5 being Highest: Light Gaming, Gaming, Emulation (PS2/Wii), Video Editing, Streaming games in HD, 3D/Model work (and what program), General Usage (Word, Web, 1080p playback).
  • Monitor Resolution: What resolution will you be playing your games at? Are you going to upgrade later? Are you buying a new monitor?
  • List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: Is 30FPS acceptable? 60? 120? How important is PhysX / SuperSampling / CUDA to you?
  • Looking to reuse any parts?: List make and model (e.g. Corsair 520HX, 640GB SATA HDD, Antec 900)
  • When will you build?: Do you have a deadline?
  • Will you be overclocking?: Yes, No, Maybe (This means yes!)

PICKING YOUR PARTS

Anandtech's 'Bench' CPU and GPU Benchmarks
- A great resource. Helpful for getting a general idea of performance or comparing hardware.
How much power do I really need? - For Low-Mid systems a good PSU with 380W on the 12V is enough. For Mid-High systems a solid 550W is enough due to lower power use now.
Above that 650W-750W for systems looking for dual GPUs. 850W-1200W for enthusiasts. Check the News + Review section below for more info on PSUs.


NeoGAF PC Builds:
Mkenyon's Small Form Factor Build Sheet - http://bit.ly/GAFBoxOne



Hazaro's PC Build Sheet - http://bit.ly/GAFPC2013



[QUIET OPTIONS]
$60 - BitFenix Shinobi . $80 - BitFenix Ghost . $100 - Define R4 . . . $130 - Fractal Define XL R2
[BUDGET]
$40 - NZXT Source 210 $50 - BitFenix Outlaw $60 - CM HAF 912 . . . $60 - Corsair 200R
[ENHANCED]
$80 - CM 690II Adv. . . $100 - CM Scout II . . $110 - Lian Li PC-7HX $110 - Fractal Arc Midi R2
[EXCELLENT]
$130 - CM HAF XM . . . . $140 - Shinobi XL . . $150 - NZXT H630 . . . $160 - CM Storm Stryker/Trooper
[Micro ATX]
$75 - Silverstone PS07 $100 - Corsair 350D $100 - Define Mini . . . . $120 - Silverstone SG10

These headphones are chosen for positional quality. No budget headsets since they are garbage (Unless someone has one to share). Zalman clip mic is garbage too.
[HEADSETS]
$100 - SteelSeries Flux $250/300 - Sennheiser 350 SE / 363D - 363D are open ear, include virtual 7.1 DAC, and are USB.

[HEADPHONES]
$30 - MonoPrice DJ 8323 $100 - ATH-AD700 $250 - AKG Q701

[MICS]
$33 - ModMic 2.0 . $15 - Logitech USB Mic $3 - DX Clip-on mic (2-6 Week shipping)

[KEYBOARDS]
Mechanical switches are referred to Cherry MX switches. MX Brown = Quiet tactile, MX Blue = loud tactile, MX Black = stiff linear, MX Red = soft linear. Cooler Master University.

$10 - Rosewill RIKB . . . $25 - Logitech K200 . . . $44 - Razer Arctosa

$80 - CM Quickfire Rapid $65 - Logitech K750 . . . $65-110 - Rosewill RK-9000's

$90 CM Quickfire Stealth $100 - Noppoo Choc . . . . $110 Vortex KBT Race

[PERFORMANCE MICE]
These are intended for competitive gamers. Speed, accuracy, and sensor customization is valued above all.

Xornet is great for the price, but the Spawn has a better sensor. Both are designed for claw and hybrid grips. If you absolutely love the MX518 shape, then the G400S is a good choice. Customization on Sensei is unparalleled, combined with low weight and ambi shape that allows for any grip type makes for the best mouse.

$30 - CM Storm Xornet . . . $40 - CM Storm Spawn $60 - Logitech G400S $60 - SteelSeries Sensei RAW


[ERGONOMIC AND MMO MICE]
For those that value comfort and extra buttons over a precise sensor.

The Recon has the best sensor and firmware here, and is a great value. The M65 has good build quality and an aluminum frame, a great choice if you have larger hands. The M95's side button layout is the best of the MMO oriented mice. G700s is the only wireless mouse listed here.

$35 - CM Storm Recon . . $60 - Corsair M65 . . . . . $80 - Corsair M95 . . . $100 - Logitech G700s

[PADS]
For most people, any cheap cloth pad will be fine. These are some other options.

The Ripper XXL is massive, allowing a seamless mousing surface.The CM Storm Control RX is a thicker hybrid design with a lycra surface allowing for easier gliding movements, and is best suited for low CPI/DPI. The CM Storm Power RX is a large textured surface allowing for good control without destroying mouse feet. The Artisan Shiden is a glass coated cloth pad that defies the typical trade-off between textured and smooth surfaces, as it has great control and allows for smooth whips.

$20 - XTrac Ripper XXL $30 - CM Control-RX . . . . $35 - CM Power-RX . . $40-50 - Artisan Shiden L or XL



[BUDGET]
$140 - ASUS VS229H-P
And any $100-$120 monitor that has decent reviews and is not an lesser brand. Many of the higher monitors also go on steep discounts.
[STANDARD]
$155 - ASUS VS247H-P . . $170 - ASUS VS239H-P
[ENHANCED]
$200 - ASUS VG23AH . . . . . $270 - Dell U2412M (16:10, no 1:1 scaling)

ASUS VG23AH if you don't wear glasses or glasses with any sort of filters/polarizers. It might be IPS/PLS but it has the best 60hz performance of ANY monitor on the market and can be driven to run at 72hz or 75hz with this program and these settings. Go for the Dell if you want 16:10 and super crisp colors.
[120Hz]
*The ASUS VG248QE will have a G-SYNC add-on board and will have an optional bundle for it later.
$270 - ASUS VG248QE. . . . . $350 - BenQ XL2420T . . £240 - BenQ XL2411T (EU/UK)

BenQ has more options and a better stand, ASUS has a better response time and better colors. Both can be used with LightBoost to achieve CRT quality smoothness of motion. Hopefully there will be some gloss/semi-gloss panels released from Samsung soon.
http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Th...ATI-and-NVIDIA
[2560x1440 IPS]
$400 - MonoPrice IPS-ZERO-G $800 - Viewsonic VP2770-LED

Crossover is available through Ebay, pixel perfect versions come at a premium. It has the same panel as the Apple Cinema Display. The VP2770 has a lower input lag at 7ms. Both are 1440p.





Amazon (Parts)
Newegg (Parts)
NCIX.US (Parts)
Performance-PCs (Cases, Fans Acessories)
Micro Center (Parts and great IN STORE deals)




NCIX (Parts, Assembly, Price Match)
Amazon.CA (Parts)
Canada Computers (Parts) - Eastern Regional
Memory Express (Parts, Assembly, Price Match) - Western Regional
Newegg.CA (Parts, Ships from US)




Novatech (Parts)
Overclockers UK (Parts)
Amazon UK (Parts)
Aria PC (Parts)
Ebuyer (Parts, Custom Built)
Microdirect (Parts)
HardwareVersand (Parts)
Misco (Parts)
Scan (Parts)
Dino PC (Custom Built)
YoYoTech (Custom Built)




PC Case Gear (Parts, Best Online Retailer)
PCDIY (Parts)
CPL (Parts)
Umart (Parts, Cheaper Shipping Outside Victoria)
Scorpion Technology (Parts)
MSY (Parts)
staticICE (Product Finder)



AnandTech
The Tech Report
TechPowerUp
X-bit labs
HardOCP
Hardware Canucks
Jonnyguru + HardwareSecrets = Legit PSU reviews
Silent PC Review = The quiet side of computing


Ninite A batch downloader and installer for popular programs. A fantastic time saver for any new PC build.
Steam Mover tool for moving Steam games to a different HDD/SSD
Steam Tool Another tool for moving steam games.

MSI Afterburner (aka RivaTuner) allows you to manage GPU overclocking, fan speed/profiles and chart many aspects of your GPU.
CPU-Z - gathers information on your Motherboard, BIOS, CPU, FSB, VCORE voltage and memory timings.
GPU-Z gathers information (Speed, architecture, temps) on your video card and GPU.
Real Temp allows you to monitor the temperature of your CPU core(s).
HWMonitor allows you to monitor fan speed, temperature, voltage, etc.
CrystalDiskMark Tests read and write speed of your hard drives.

nVidia Inspector allows you to optimize the display, improve the performance and fully utilize your NVIDIA graphics card.
Radeon Pro allows you to optimize the display, improve the performance and fully utilize your AMD graphics card.
Dxtory / nVidia driver options allows you to limit the frame rate on most games. Excellent for older games or just getting a locked framerate.
Fraps allows you to record real time video, take screen captures and display your FPS.
Open Broadcast Software a streaming program for things like Twitch.TV A free and better competitor to XSplit.

OCCT allows you to stress test your CPU and GPU, along with GPU memory.
Prime95 allows you to stress test your CPU and RAM for stability.
FURMark allows you to stress test your video card.
Memtest86+ allows you to run a full memory scan to deal with the blue screen of death and system errors.
Last edited by Hazaro; 11-21-2013 at 11:18 PM.
Hazaro
relies on auto-aim
(06-22-2013, 12:55 PM)
Hazaro's Avatar
More guides will go here. With shiny image buttons. Soon™

General guides:
FALCON GUIDE (Logical Increments) – This is a general updated guide with lots of price segments and a ton of accessible information at the bottom. I favor my case selection and PSUs, but a good resource.
Tech Report System Guide - Updated once a season, it proves I'm not crazy by picking things I usually agree with.



Video Build Guides: TechReport PC Building Guide 15 minute video how-to / 40 Minute how-to / Tested March 15th $1,500 build (100 minutes, but entertaining) / How to Build a Gaming Computer 2012 (Carey Holzman - 150 minutes) / Newegg - 40 minutes / TimeToLive Build (75 minutes)
Thermal Paste: Apply as a ~4mm ball to the CPU. Press the heatsink down and tighten. Line method is ok. Application matters way less than you think. If you take the heatsink off, clean it with alcohol and reapply or you will trap air.
mkenyon(ZFZ) - Build Guide & Cable Management Guide
Socket 1155 Overclocking Guide (Sandy, Ivy, 2500K, 3570K, 3770K, all motherboards): Guide: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/c...ocking_guide/1 Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBEeXajbG2o

3 step guide to overclocking Haswell (Socket 1150, Z87, 4670K, 4770K)

SSD Setup and Tweaking

Help! PC won't Turn on/POST/Boot
Under construction
Read yo manual
No really. Read it.
Is your PSU switched to your correct Voltage? (120 or 240?) Is it on I for power?
Ok what did you leave unplugged? Double Check all wires are plugged. Trace them physically with your hand.
Any loose screws around? What about screws behind the motherboard?
You did put in thos standoff screws so the motherboard is risen off the case... right?
etc.

Video Card Cooler Guide by mkenyon(ZFZ) - Picking a GPU cooler right for you
Intro to dual cards: SLI & Crossfire - I'd only suggest dual cards if you are willing to plunk down $400+ for each GPU. Otherwise go single.

__________________

MedIC86's Advanced Information Guide - Ctrl + F is your friend.



Current mainstream sockets:
Intel: LGA1155(SB/IB)/1150(Haswell)/2011(SB-E/IB-E)
AMD: AM3/AM3+

Overclocking:

Is it safe? Mostly. Computer parts are pretty damn durable and there are a ton of safeguards in place to auto throttle down a CPU, increase fan speed, and even shut down before any harm happens.
How hot is too hot? In general it is wanted to keep temperatures under 65C using a CPU load program (Like in the OP, Prime95). A little over is fine. Idle temperatures are not that important and are often reported inaccurately. Temperature variation across cores is normal.
My CPU is not fast as others It happens. Every person is not going to get 4.8Ghz out of an i5 2500K. 1.3V and 4.4Ghz is a good benchmark for many though.

In general, the most resources you want are found by simply using Google. 'Processor + Motherboard' will give you a lot of good results. 'How to overclock (processor)' as well.

A Sandy and Ivy Bridge Overclocking Guide (Socket 1155, 2500K, 3770K, etc.)


Motherboards:

- Socket Type (Which processors will work with your motherboard. Make sure it matches or is compatible with the CPU you are buying.)
- Chipset (Different chipsets (H67,P67,Z68,770,880,990) determine what possible connections and extras motherboards can support. In general the performance gains are not noticible and it is used mainly to tell how many PCI-E lanes a motherboard can support)
- Memory (Does it use DDR2 or DDR3? 1.5V or 1.65V? Most use 1.5V DDR3 today)
- Expansion slots (How many expansion slots do you need? PCI-E x16? PCI? Do you want two GPU's and a wireless PCI-E card? A PCI sound card?)
- Connectors/features (Do you need HDMI out? USB 3.0 ports? On board digital out?)
- Formfactor (Your case will have room for a certain formfactor of motherboard (ATX[normal], mATX[small]. Some cases only fit mATX and are labeled as such)
- Compatibility (On rare occasions there are incompatibilities between certain cards and memory with motherboards)
- Brand (Most brands on the market today are solid. Newegg reviews are generally helpful to determine a DOA rate. MSI, ASUS, ASRock, and Gigabyte in no particular order are some of the most known.)
- Quality (You pay more for more features. Higher end boards will also have more power regulations, use less power, and keep voltage in check more than cheaper boards)
- Overclock-ability (Usually nearly equal across the board. If you want a slightly higher overclock, you can pay more for a motherboard with better power regulation)
- Price (Always try to find the best bang for your buck, don't buy a mobo with features that you will never use!)

So in short, when buying a motherboard try to follow these points:
1. Determine the platform (Chipset + Socket)
2. Determine what functions you deem necessary for the motherboard to have
3. Make a shortlist of all motherboards that have your demands
4. Pick the board that has good reviews and has the best price



Speed and latency for RAM (e.g. 1600 9-9-9-24 vs 1866 10-10-10-27) is not a big deal. In many cases it is just 1-4% difference. 1600Mhz DDR3 is perfectly fine for most. Save your money unless a sale is on, our you want to buy neat looking RAM. Just make sure the tall RAM heatsinks don't block your CPU heatsink!
4GB is enough for gaming, but should really be 8GB. 16GB if you do a lot of video work.
DDR3 prices are currently quite low and shouldn't drop much farther.

CAS vs. SPEED
DDR2 & DDR3
Memory Overclocking



When you are in the market for a new GPU follow the same rules as with the motherboard. Determine your budget, features that you need etc.**CHECK REVIEWS FROM OP SITES!**

Question: There are many different brands in videocards, do they differ?
Answer: Most cards are very similar. Brands are there for warranty and support. Sometimes a brand will use a custom cooler.
If the card uses the reference PCB, there is **NO** difference per brand, its the same card they just slap a different sticker on it.
But if you have a pre-factory overclocked card or they are using another cooler then the reference design there might be a difference, check hardware review sites for these GPU's.


Imaging your old HDD to your SSD
Some SSD Setup and Tweak guides in this post
Crucial Firmware
Samsung Support

SSD is a abbreviation for 'Solid State Drive': a 'drive' with no mechanical parts, but with a conventional disk-interface (usually SATA).
An ssd contains memory chips (flash memory) to store the data.
The biggest advantage is data is almost immediately available, without the need of moving a mechanical head to the area on the hard drive where the desired data is stored.
At this moment pc-components such as the processor, memory (ram), graphics processor and other components, perform well enough to meet the demand of the most users. Still we have to wait while using a computer...
So where can performance still be increased dramatically? The answer: SSD's!

Terminology:

- Garbage collection: part of the functionality of the firmware of ssd's that automatically merges fairly unused memory blocks for better performance
- Under-partitioning: leave blank space for better performance
- Wiping: OCZ method (tool) to improve performance
- Aligning: creating a partition with a size that is exactly the cluster size multiplied by a factor
- TRIM: a ATA (contoller) command from the operating system to an ssd, that can tell that a memory block on the ssd can be erased to improve write performance - It's a feature of Windows 7 but keep in mind that your SSD must support it!
- Wear leveling: spreading write-actions on memory cells evenly over the whole ssd - this prevents wear of the flash cells increasing their lifetime
- MLC / SLC: Multi Level Cell or Single Level Cell - the latter lasts longer, is theoretically faster but more expensive, so mlc-based ssd's are now sold more, especially to consumers.

Tips for SSD's on a Windows based system:

- Firmware: YES (check if there is new firmware out and if so install it, usually gets speed increases)
- Partition alignment: YES (Windows Vista (SP1 and later) and Windows 7 always create aligned partitions.)
- Defragmentation: NO (it's important that you turn off automatic defragging on the SSD. see below)
- Indexing: NO (its better for the drive durability + speed to turn this off. right click on the SSD in "my computer" and uncheck "Allow files on this drive to have contents indexed in addition to file properties" you will probably get some error for some files that cant be accessed just skip them)
- AHCI: preferably enabled (this is a bit tricky since not all motherboards can actually do this. To enable ACHI also differs from pc per pc but there are some steps that are necessary. you can google this easily enough. -> be warned tho! there is no guarantee that this will speed up your SSD, also enabling ACHI requires to be done before installing Windows, you can hack it into the registry later but that can make your system unstable, so read up if you want to do this)

How to check if TRIM is enabled in Windows 7?
Go to the command prompt (run -> CMD) and key in "fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify" if you get a 0 (zero) TRIM is working. To enable it key in "
fsutil behavior set disabledeletenotify 0"

Here is a list with some good tweaks for your SSD (*WARNING* as always be careful what you change, most of these are quiet harmless but there are never guarantees!)

Disable indexing
Description: Indexing creates and maintains a database of file attributes. This can lead to multiple small writes when creating/deleting/modifying files.

Searching for files will still work.
Instructions: Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Manage -> Services and Applications -> Services - > Right-Click Windows Search -> Startup type: Disabled -> OK

Disable defragmentation
Description: Defragmenting a hard disk's used space is only useful on mechanical disks with multi-millisecond latencies. Free-space defragmentation may be useful to SSDs, but this feature is not available in the default Windows Defragmenter.
Instructions: Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Manage -> Services and Applications -> Services - > Right-Click Disk Defragmenter -> Startup type: Disabled -> OK

Disable Write Caching (Depends on SSD. Crucial M4 SSD leave on (as of 9/19/2011)
Description: There is no cache on the SSD, so there are no benefits to write caching. There are conflicting reports on whether this gains speed or not.
Instructions: Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Manage -> Device Manager -> Disk drives -> Right-Click STEC PATA -> Properties -> Policies Tab -> Uncheck Enable write caching -> OK

Firefox - Use memory cache instead of disk cache
Description: If you use Firefox, there's a way to write cached files to RAM instead of the hard disk. This is not only faster, but will significantly reduce writes to the SSD while using the browser.
Instructions: Open Firefox -> Type about:config into the address bar -> Enter -> double-click browser.cache.disk.enable to set the value to False -> Right-Click anywhere -> New -> Integer -> Preference Name "disk.cache.memory.capacity" -> value memory size in KB. Enter 32768 for 32MB, 65536 for 64MB, 131072 for 128MB, etc. -> restart Firefox

Free up extra drive space
Disable the Page File
Description: Eliminate writing memory to the SSD, free over 2GB of disk space. Warning - If you run out of memory the program you're using will crash.
Instructions: Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Properties -> Advanced System Settings -> Settings (Performance) -> Advanced Tab -> Change -> Uncheck Automatically manage -> No paging file -> Set -> OK -> Restart your computer
Alternatively, if you want to play it safer, you can set a custom size of 200MB min and max.

Disable System Restore
Description: Don't write backup copies of files when installing new programs or making system changes. Can free up between a few hundred MB to a couple GB. Warning - Although unlikely, if a driver installation corrupts your system, there won't be an automatic way to recover.
Instructions: Start Menu -> Right-Click Computer -> Properties -> Advanced System Settings -> System Protection Tab -> Configure -> Turn off system protection -> Delete -> OK

Disable Hibernate
Description: You may free up 1GB of space on the SSD if you have 1GB of memory, 2GB of space if you have 2GB memory. You will lose the hibernation feature which allows the equivalent of quick boots and shutdowns.
Instructions: Start Menu -> Type cmd -> Right-Click the cmd Icon -> Run as Administrator -> Type powercfg -h off -> Type exit

And finally the ever important question: What SSD should i buy ?

Unfortunately there is no definitive answer for this question, technology changes and evolves all the time. So if you are planning on buying an SSD read up some reviews on trusted sites (see the websites in the link section).

Links to useful SSD tools:
Crystal Mark Bench + NFO Tool
AS-SSD TOOL
Steam Mover Tool


2013 Thread Part 1 + Part 2
2012 Thread Part 1 + Part 2
2011 Thread Part 1 + Part 2
2010 Thread / 2009 Thread / 2008 Thread
Last edited by Hazaro; 11-30-2013 at 08:11 AM.
mkenyon
Member
(06-22-2013, 12:55 PM)
mkenyon's Avatar
Small Form Factor Build Guide
Or, how to build the GAF Box One
One of the main factors that one faces when dealing with SFF builds is ensuring that heatsinks and parts fit in the tiny spaces provided. The parts in these build sheets are far less loose in terms of picking out something slightly different. I can only ensure proper clearances on the items that are in the build sheet. What makes this even more important is that I've decided to include Haswell in the Enthusiast build while sticking with Ivy Bridge in the Excellent builds. That means that they are on completely different sockets, so processors and motherboards are not compatible between the two. The reason why I've chosen to go this route is simply because of the ASUS Maximus VI Impact. This motherboard is jam packed with features, even a daughter board with a great sound card. This is the one case where all you are truly giving up is extra expansion slots.

In terms of being able to hold the most powerful hardware, only the CM 120 Elite and FT03 Mini are limited. So if you want to pack a 7970, 780, or Titan in an ITX enclosure, then you'll want to skip those. From there it's mostly a choice of aesthetics, though the Prodigy is the most capable in terms of moving heat.

The AMD APU builds are actually perfectly good gaming machines if you aren't planning on running anything graphically intensive. Indie games, Source, older titles, and even some newer ones like Dirt will run wonderfully on these systems. You do get what you pay for in terms of performance when you upgrade to the A8 or A10, though the A6 will certainly be able to handle HTPC tasks and light gaming. If you are just looking for an inexpensive computer that will handle browsing, 1080p video, and light gaming, then it's definitely the way to go. The HTPC builds will fit in all of the cases, but I only included them in the two cases that would look acceptable in a media center. That's a subjective call on my part, so if you are smitten with another case design, feel free to apply the HTPC column to any of the other cases.




Last edited by mkenyon; 06-22-2013 at 01:05 PM.
Durante
I'm taking it FROM here, so says Mr. Stewart
(06-22-2013, 12:59 PM)
Durante's Avatar
Heh, if I had a twitter account I'd tweet #IntelnoTIM.
Hazaro
relies on auto-aim
(06-22-2013, 12:59 PM)
Hazaro's Avatar
Change List off the top of my head:
  • Monoprice Monitor
  • Stealth Keyboard
  • Monoprice DJ Headphones
  • PC 350SE / 363D
  • More mice will be coming
  • Enthusiast Cases -> mATX
  • Separate SFF section
  • Updated Build sheets (Less ASRock now)

An overhauled second post (Images / Banners -> Links) with expansion of some technical stuff like power used, 80+, lying fans, frame latency is up next.
Trimming of excess in the OP is also on the list. Oh, and getting my lazy butt to get this on an external website so I can make some money since I need income. :(
*Mouse Pads in accessories too.
*LGA 2011 build
Last edited by Hazaro; 06-22-2013 at 10:23 PM.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
(06-22-2013, 01:00 PM)
Nerd power thread, my kinda thread.
Addnan
Member
(06-22-2013, 01:08 PM)
Addnan's Avatar
@neogafnewthread is not working with the updated site, so the #intelnotim won't show up. Nooo.
GHG
Member
(06-22-2013, 01:11 PM)
GHG's Avatar
Who here will be 1st to buy this bad boy?:

http://www.techradar.com/news/comput...n-june-1156105

Q3 2013 is when the 4k sickness will start to spread.
Hazaro
relies on auto-aim
(06-22-2013, 01:12 PM)
Hazaro's Avatar
As usual now is a good time to point out things (Typos, feedback, volunteering to do some graphic design, interesting articles or summaries, etc.)

Originally Posted by Durante

Heh, if I had a twitter account I'd tweet #IntelnoTIM.

Originally Posted by Addnan

@neogafnewthread is not working with the updated site, so the #intelnotim won't show up. Nooo.

It's such a good hashtag too. :(

For fun (bit.ly link clicks):
Last edited by Hazaro; 06-22-2013 at 01:28 PM.
bodyboarder
Member
(06-22-2013, 01:14 PM)
bodyboarder's Avatar
i3-2130 and 6970.

Is it a good combo gaming wise, will either part bottleneck the other significantly?
Hazaro
relies on auto-aim
(06-22-2013, 01:29 PM)
Hazaro's Avatar

Originally Posted by bodyboarder

i3-2130 and 6970.

Is it a good combo gaming wise, will either part bottleneck the other significantly?

Very solid. There are a few games that you might run into a CPU limitation with, but overall you should basically be set.
bodyboarder
Member
(06-22-2013, 01:52 PM)
bodyboarder's Avatar

Originally Posted by Hazaro

Very solid. There are a few games that you might run into a CPU limitation with, but overall you should basically be set.

That is good news. Not playing anything too intensive (mainly bf3/4).
Felix Lighter
Member
(06-22-2013, 01:57 PM)
Felix Lighter's Avatar
My favorite thread.
Shadowhaxor
Junior Member
(06-22-2013, 02:06 PM)
Shadowhaxor's Avatar
Heads up gang, just wanted to share an experience I just went through. So the past few days I wanted to build a HTPC to replace my WDTV box, just got tired of converting 10-bit encoded media. Anyway I picked up a MSI A55 FM2 mobo with a A6-6400k, nothing to heavy but will do 1080p like a boss and some medium res gaming on the plasma.

Built the PC and got a black screen. After an hour or testing I took it back to the store and had them put it on their tech bench, same result.

Ended up swapping all mobo and went home only to get the same result. As it turns out the current FM2 boards need a bios / UEFI upgrade but the only way to do the upgrade is if you have a older Trinity APU! So I ended up exchanging the A6-6400K with a A8-5400K, which is a dual core to a quad core for 13 bucks more. Now that my bios is upgraded I thought about taking the processor back but it's a quad-core.... no reason.

FYI this issue with with every existing A55 & A75. If you're in the market for a Richland APU, please check the site for the mobo you're interesting in. If you see something like this "Please use Trinity CPU to update BIOS before changing to Richland CPU." you may want to think again.
Hazaro
relies on auto-aim
(06-22-2013, 02:11 PM)
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I just realized I totally blanked on LGA 2011 builds.
Maaaaaaaaaaaan
Addnan
Member
(06-22-2013, 02:12 PM)
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I am liking that there are MSI boards in most of the builds. I like MSI boards.

Under UK there are already a lot of stores, but it would be great to have Amazon there. Everyone should buy from Amazon if the options is there. So much easier to deal with than any smaller tech websites.

edit: Overclockers also do custom builds as well as parts.
Last edited by Addnan; 06-22-2013 at 02:18 PM.
Spookie
Member
(06-22-2013, 02:16 PM)
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As someone who is thinking of possibly going over to watercooling in my next build. How much more expensive is it than air? Also does anyone know were you could buy pre built kits in the UK?
n0n44m
Member
(06-22-2013, 02:20 PM)
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subbed ! best thread on GAF? best thread on GAF!

for those who have an Asus Xonar card with Dolby Headphone, do the following to get great virtual surround sound over your headphones !

to summarize :
1. Install Xonar Unified drivers (better control panel, totally stable, fixes all the issues that the official drivers have).
2. In the C-Media control panel, set system input to 6 channels, turn on headphone mode and enable Dolby Headphone & 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter.
3. Place the virtual speakers according to this picture (those are my personal preferences together with the "Cinema" type Dolby Headphone Reverb; you can play around with it of course, but the wider and closer placement of the rear speakers is most important here !).
4. In game, always adjust the sound settings like if you have a 5.1 surround sound setup. Use settings like "5.1 surround / Home Cinema / Large Dynamic Range" and so on. Do not use the ingame headphone modes, the Dolby Headphone already gives you a better virtualization than those !


Now unfortunately the headphone amp on my Xonar DGX blew for some reason (never remove the headphone plug while the PC is powered on I guess). Luckily I do have an external-USB-DAC-Headphone-AMP combo, and I can get the Xonar Dolby Headphone over this USB "soundcard" using the following trick. This outputs all sounds from the Xonar to my USB DAC (also, because the Xonar output is only 2 channel when in headphone mode, I don't have to use the "Stereo Mix" recording option).

This does supposedly introduce a delay, but I've tested it by outputting to my receiver over an optical cable simultaneously, and when listening to my headphones with 1 ear while having my other near the speaker, the delay was absolutely minimal. In game I noticed no issues either (e.g. the sound when shooting your own gun doesn't seem to be any different / more laggy).

Still, if you have an (headphone) amplifier with an optical (toslink) input you could always just enable the PCM s/pdif output in the Xonar panel, as the Xonar will also output Dolby Headphone over the optical cable without any delay ! I personally just think it's wasteful to have my home theater amplifier using all this power just to power my headphones ;)


anyway I hope this helps you guys. I'm really able to pinpoint enemies behind me in a game like Red Orchestra 2 / Rising Storm. Unfortunately certain games still have a sound mix where foot steps are completely drowned in all the gunfire around you, so don't expect wonders from Dolby Headphone in every game.

If you are looking to buy a new sound card, I can definitely recommend an Asus Dolby Headphone enabled card. The Xonar DGX is a very simple and cheap card that is perfect for gaming with headphones. The better Xonar cards offer more options to connect your speakers as well, just make sure you can connect all your gear at the same time (usually not an issue if your speakers have an amp with optical input, though cards with both Dolby Digital Live AND Dolby Digital Headphone are more expensive!).
Creative does not have the Dolby Headphone, but on their more expensive cards they do have a technique called CMSS-3D which works the same basically (it used to be superior due to some extra features like height, but support for those in modern game engines is no where to be found unfortunately...).
Shadowhaxor
Junior Member
(06-22-2013, 02:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spookie

As someone who is thinking of possibly going over to watercooling in my next build. How much more expensive is it than air? Also does anyone know were you could buy pre built kits in the UK?

What type of water cooling? Are you looking for a full blown kit or a self contained kit like the Corsair water cooler kits; http://www.corsair.com/cpu-cooling-k...pu-cooler.html
CoG
Member
(06-22-2013, 02:22 PM)
Thinking about rebuilding my HTPC which is now dual boot Linux/MythTV and Windows 7 to a Linux hypervisor running Myth and Windows in VMs. Anyone ever try anything like this?
Spookie
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(06-22-2013, 02:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shadowhaxor

What type of water cooling? Are you looking for a full blown kit or a self contained kit like the Corsair water cooler kits; http://www.corsair.com/cpu-cooling-k...pu-cooler.html

I was thinking CPU/GPU loop.
Osiris
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(06-22-2013, 02:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Addnan

I am liking that there are MSI boards in most of the builds. I like MSI boards.

Under UK there are already a lot of stores, but it would be great to have Amazon there. Everyone should buy from Amazon if the options is there. So much easier to deal with than any smaller tech websites.

edit: Overclockers also do custom builds as well as parts.

Agreed, Amazon UK really needs to be added, the free delivery (for goods supplied or fulfilled by Amazon) really puts them over the top of a lot of other suppliers.

And Overclockers custom builds are annoying and expensive, for one they only allow limited customization of each build (Different, limited options available for each base built chosen, no "fully custom" option that I can see) and after pricing up a build there you end up paying well over the odds especially as they charge a silly amount for cable management (which should be a standard build feature for a PC in 2013!)
Last edited by Osiris; 06-22-2013 at 02:34 PM.
n0n44m
Member
(06-22-2013, 02:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spookie

I was thinking CPU/GPU loop.

It's much more expensive than air

Also much more fun. Especially when you mix and match all the components yourself, so don't get a kit unless it's great value :)

you'll need a reservoir, pump, radiator, CPU & GPU block, fittings & tubing, radiator fans.

It can potentially be much more quiet compared to air cooling, especially when you have multiple graphics cards, but don't expect the increase in silence and cooling performance to be worth the money. Just do it because you like to build and tweak PCs.
Addnan
Member
(06-22-2013, 02:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Osiris

Agreed, Amazon UK really needs to be added, the free delivery (for goods supplied or fulfilled by Amazon) really puts them over the top of a lot of other suppliers.

And Overclockers custom builds are annoying and expensive, for one they only allow limited customization of each build (Different, limited options available for each base built chosen, no "fully custom" option that I can see) and after pricing up a build there you end up paying well over the odds especially as they charge a silly amount for cable management (which should be a standard build feature for a PC in 2013!)

Ah, I don't really look at custom builds. Didn't know about the price hikes.

Another good thing about Amazon is that you can just return stuff to them without any hassle. Just tell them its not working, they won't care.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(06-22-2013, 02:38 PM)
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Thread 2 already? This is a record. Well done :)
RSTEIN
Comics, serious business!
(06-22-2013, 02:39 PM)
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On new computer!

Here's a screenshot from GPUZ



Why does the memory size say 2990MB when its a 4gb card? Unless I'm reading it wrong?
n0n44m
Member
(06-22-2013, 02:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by RSTEIN

On new computer!

Here's a screenshot from GPUZ

Why does the memory size say 2990MB when its a 4gb card? Unless I'm reading it wrong?

looks like you don't have any drivers installed ?
RSTEIN
Comics, serious business!
(06-22-2013, 02:41 PM)
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Oh OK :)
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(06-22-2013, 02:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by RSTEIN

On new computer!

Here's a screenshot from GPUZ



Why does the memory size say 2990MB when its a 4gb card? Unless I'm reading it wrong?

You better get some drivers and EVGA Precision or MSI Afterburner installed as well. Make sure you don't DL the newer nvidia drivers. Get the 320.14 as the others have been causing issues. Namely 320.18 and 320.22.
woo and indeed hoo
Member
(06-22-2013, 02:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by LiquidMetal14

Thread 2 already? This is a record. Well done :)

Indeed.

Also, I have been remiss in not thanking the original thread for holding my hand and giving me the moral support to venture into the world of pc specing!

I'm still getting used to Win 7 after using XP for a decade but my pc is an absolute joy. So quiet, so fast, so big and sexy *ahem*. PC gaming is a very pleasant surprise too. All my consoles and handhelds are gathering dust. Given the decades long backlog of pc games I'd like to play I am going to have to find some way of adding more hours into the day I think.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks :wub:.
n0n44m
Member
(06-22-2013, 02:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by LiquidMetal14

You better get some drivers and EVGA Precision or MSI Afterburner installed as well. Make sure you don't DL the newer nvidia drivers. Get the 320.14 as the others have been causing issues. Namely 320.18 and 320.22.

if that is a 770 I think you can only get the 320.18 officialy

to install the GeForce 314.22 Driver WHQL you have to edit a .inf file to get the installer to recognize the 770
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(06-22-2013, 02:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by n0n44m

if that is a 770 I think you can only get the 320.18 officialy

to install the GeForce 314.22 Driver WHQL you have to edit a .inf file to get the installer to recognize the 770

Good call. I've been holding off on updating but if he has a 770 then he best get 320.18 then. The newer driver has been causing many issues.
Addnan
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(06-22-2013, 02:47 PM)
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Has anyone with a 7xx had any issues with 320.18? I've been running it and so have a few people I know.
Wolf Akela
Member
(06-22-2013, 02:54 PM)
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Are SteelSeries Sensei mice all the same? I can only get the Frost Blue edition.
RSTEIN
Comics, serious business!
(06-22-2013, 02:58 PM)
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Boom!

I have to run, I have a lot more questions. Everything seems to be working tho!

vic2020
Junior Member
(06-22-2013, 03:01 PM)
Will the Standard build in OP last me through the next gen console to PC ports if I'm only ever going to run games in 1280x1024 and I'm ok with 30fps?
FLAguy954
Member
(06-22-2013, 03:08 PM)
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I feel this thread has a severe lack of AMD FX processor information.
Loris146
Member
(06-22-2013, 03:09 PM)
Guys i have a question. Is it possible that the Motherboard has an influence on performance ? I have a Asroc Z77 Pro 4 and i have problems in some games like Swtor, with huge frame drops and low use of GPU ( GTX 670) . But for example in The Witcher 2 i have amazing performance with an high usage of my GPU. ( I have clean and reinstall gpu drivers and update the bios of Motherboard).

Do you have some ideas?
Addnan
Member
(06-22-2013, 03:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by vic2020

Will the Standard build in OP last me through the next gen console to PC ports if I'm only ever going to run games in 1280x1024 and I'm ok with 30fps?

Can't make any promises, but at that low res you should be okay.

Originally Posted by FLAguy954

I feel this thread has a severe lack of AMD FX processor information.

For gaming Intel right now is just a lot more ahead of anything AMD offers.
diaspora
Member
(06-22-2013, 03:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by FLAguy954

I feel this thread has a severe lack of AMD FX processor information.

The 8350 is the only one that matters imo.

Originally Posted by Addnan

For gaming Intel right now is just a lot more ahead of anything AMD offers.

Not at $200.
Cuban Legend
Member
(06-22-2013, 03:13 PM)
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loving this thread. I always point my friends to it when they want to buy a gaming PC to join me in the Steam-Powered "mustard race".

(searching google for a pic of mustard jars being powered by actual steam, lol)
Flaxh
Junior Member
(06-22-2013, 03:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by RSTEIN

Boom!

I have to run, I have a lot more questions. Everything seems to be working tho![/IMG]

Did you end up buying a new display?

The OP states that the ASUS VG23AH is a good option "if you don't wear glasses or glasses with any sort of filters/polarizers.". Is this why a lot of people complain about the grey lines running across it?
Anyone with the MX239H here? I'd like to get some feedback because there's only a couple of reviews of the display.
TheSeks
Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
(06-22-2013, 03:20 PM)
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So, question: Should I wait for the new consoles to launch before buying parts to build a PC to carry me into the "new generation" or should I buy parts and build now? I'm not sure which way to go but I'm thinking of jumping ship from consoles finally (the only thing tying me to consoles now is FFvs13/15 and MGS5 which apparently is getting a PC port anyway) but I'm not sure if I buy parts now is a smart idea.
Addnan
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(06-22-2013, 03:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by diaspora

The 8350 is the only one that matters imo.



Not at $200.

and the 3570K is only $20 more with a lot better performance in most games.

Originally Posted by TheSeks

So, question: Should I wait for the new consoles to launch before buying parts to build a PC to carry me into the "new generation" or should I buy parts and build now? I'm not sure which way to go but I'm thinking of jumping ship from consoles finally (the only thing tying me to consoles now is FFvs13/15 and MGS5 which apparently is getting a PC port anyway) but I'm not sure if I buy parts now is a smart idea.

Its not a bad time to build, not much new is coming out soon. New AMD cards later in the year, but thats about it.
RSTEIN
Comics, serious business!
(06-22-2013, 03:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Flaxh

Did you end up buying a new display?

The OP states that the ASUS VG23AH is a good option "if you don't wear glasses or glasses with any sort of filters/polarizers.". Is this why a lot of people complain about the grey lines running across it?
Anyone with the MX239H here? I'd like to get some feedback because there's only a couple of reviews of the display.

I just went with the 24" ASUS VS247. Will upgrade later.
kharma45
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(06-22-2013, 03:29 PM)
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New thread eh?

Originally Posted by diaspora

The 8350 is the only one that matters imo.



Not at $200.

I would argue for a 6300 over the i3 now, and the FM2 Athlon's over the Pentiums.
kennah
(06-22-2013, 03:42 PM)
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Oh me oh my. New thread time!

Water cooling seems to be coming up more often. Should a tiny section with links to guides be added to the op?
Shadowhaxor
Junior Member
(06-22-2013, 03:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheSeks

So, question: Should I wait for the new consoles to launch before buying parts to build a PC to carry me into the "new generation" or should I buy parts and build now? I'm not sure which way to go but I'm thinking of jumping ship from consoles finally (the only thing tying me to consoles now is FFvs13/15 and MGS5 which apparently is getting a PC port anyway) but I'm not sure if I buy parts now is a smart idea.

Not seeing why you would wait for the new consoles to drop, its not like they have any impact on the pricing of PC parts. Best time to buy parts is when new revisions come out and pricing on older tech drops, if it drops.

Originally Posted by Addnan

Has anyone with a 7xx had any issues with 320.18? I've been running it and so have a few people I know.

I was running those drivers and I got artifacts all over place, had to mod the 320.11 drivers. Did take a performance hit.
RibbedHero
Member
(06-22-2013, 03:51 PM)
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Great OP Hazaro and Mkenyon! Subscribing.
IvanI
Member
(06-22-2013, 03:52 PM)
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As promised in Part 1, here's my Core 2 Duo -> Haswell upgrade:

Upgrades are in bold.

ASUS P5B Deluxe
---> Asus Z87-Pro
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz OCed to 3.2GHz
---> Intel Core i5 4670K
Scythe Ninja SCNJ-1000 + 120mm fan
---> Noctua NH-D14
4x2GB Kingmax DDR2
---> 2x4GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3, 1600MHz
XFX Radeon 7850 2GB Black Edition
Corsair HX520, 520W PSU
Seagate Baracuda 320GB, SATA-II
Seagate Baracuda 160GB, SATA-II
Samsung DVD-RW
Dell U2412M, 24” LED 1920x1200
Microsoft Ergo 4000 Natural Keyboard
Logitech G400
Antec P183
Windows 7 Professional SP1 x64

Components at a glance:

The first order of business was to remove the old parts.

The patient on the table ready to be gutted:

Antec P183 which I bought a couple of years ago proved itself yet again as a top notch case that can handle anything, even the notorious Noctua NH-D14 cooler.
Installing Noctua itself was pretty much straightforward. Amazing build quality.

Noctua pics:

And here's how it's looking finally assembled and on the floor:

After powering it on, I had no picture on the screen and I got A2 or AE Qcode messages on the board and the VGA LED light was on indicating a problem with the VGA (ASUS LED and Qcodes are amazing).

I removed the GPU, booted with iGPU, I got the picture.

Since I know that my GPU is fine and working, I updated the BIOS to 1007 (from 0804 I believe) and voila, the GPU was working fine.

I fined tuned the BIOS settings to my liking, installed Windows, SP1, patches, software, etc. I'm now downloading games.

I did a simple torture test with OCCT yesterday, I'm happy how it's holding out (ambient temp was ~29C):

Idle temps are around 25-30C.

I don't plan to OC since this is a noticeable step change from my Core 2 Duo.

I can wholeheartedly recommend all the components.

Hope you like it!

- Ivan

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