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xemumanic · Jun 27, 2013

derFeef said:
These topics sure turn into Windows 8 debate fast.

Yup. Gasping at straws if you ask me.

And just as I assumed, IE 11 IS coming to Windows 7. I'm betting if there's anything about it that's non-Win8.1 specific, 7 users will get it via that like they did with IE 10. Remember the silly debate we had here about that?

As I said before, 11.2 still isn't going to matter anyway. Nothing, not even of note, even uses 11.1.

sheamus · Jun 27, 2013

Ugh Windows 8

Smash88 · Jun 27, 2013

I got Windows 8. After an adjustment period it's fine. I was also worried when people on here were saying it's absolute garbage. To those people, I will bet $100 some of you HAVE NEVER USED Windows 8. It's a fine OS, despite the garbage Metro UI. Can't wait for 8.1 and DirectX 11.2 - going to relish in the new DirectX while everyone bitches and moans about some idea that was perpetrated back at launch and is now just a regurgitating thing to say at any Windows 8 thread or topic.

At least this thread is showing me those who have no idea about what they are talking about.

Delusibeta · Jun 27, 2013

Smash88 said:
I got Windows 8. After an adjustment period it's fine. I was also worried when people on here were saying it's absolute garbage. To those people, I will bet $100 some of you HAVE NEVER USED Windows 8. It's a fine OS, despite the garbage Metro UI. Can't wait for 8.1 and DirectX 11.2 - going to relish in the new DirectX while everyone bitches and moans about some idea that was perpetrated back at launch and is now just a regurgitating thing to say at any Windows 8 thread or topic.

At least this thread is showing me those who have no idea about what they are talking about.

Metro is garbage, and that's basically the only real difference, tbh. Not worth the upgrade, and I'm running the damn thing.

TheD · Jun 27, 2013

Smash88 said:
I got Windows 8. After an adjustment period it's fine. I was also worried when people on here were saying it's absolute garbage. To those people, I will bet $100 some of you HAVE NEVER USED Windows 8. It's a fine OS, despite the garbage Metro UI. Can't wait for 8.1 and DirectX 11.2 - going to relish in the new DirectX while everyone bitches and moans about some idea that was perpetrated back at launch and is now just a regurgitating thing to say at any Windows 8 thread or topic.

At least this thread is showing me those who have no idea about what they are talking about.

So it is fine, yet a large chunk of it is "garbage".......

nhlducks35 · Jun 27, 2013

Reminds me of that gif by Drazgul

Time to update it

LukasTaves · Jun 27, 2013

Direct 3D 11.2 comes if new core optimizations that should improve performance among all apps and games that recompiles using 11.2.

There are also 5 new features in the api:

- Hardware overlay support (Similar to Durango's display panes, allows the developer to render the 3d graphics of the app at lower than native resolution, while keeping 2d ui at native res composing the final frame at a native resolution). Developers can also target a framerate and let the gpu dynamically scales the 3d graphics to try to meet that criteria (basically dynamic resolution changing is now fully supported by the api)

- HSL shader linking. W8.1 store apps can compile shaders in runtime, so the behavior of the shaders can be dynamic. However compiling is slow, so this feature allows you to pre-compile shaders at build time and link them at runtime, this way you can create new dynamic shaders without the performance hit. Dynamics shaders could be used for instance for a game to test the performance of the device it's going to run and modify to a simpler or a more complex version of the shader to maintain the best visual quality while maintaining the target framerate. It's also useful for building shader library dlls that can be shared among different projects and each app decides how to build their shaders from this library.

- Mappeable gpu buffers. This is great for compute scenarios with collaboration of the cpu and gpu. They provide api support for the cpu directly access the gpu memory without needing to copy the buffer back and forth. For 11.2 it's going to be onlye for compute so it's only buffers, not graphical objects.

- Low latency present API. Basically api support for the system to tell the app when it's the best time to start rendering and showing the content on screen, to allow the shortest latency possible. By using this api they were able to reduce latency from 3 frames (at 60fps) to less than 1.

- Tiled Resources which is api support for hardware accelerated virtual texturing. It's basically hardware support for mega texturing.

CharmingCharlie · Jun 28, 2013

Smash88 said:
It's a fine OS, despite the garbage Metro UI. Can't wait for 8.1 and DirectX 11.2 - going to relish in the new DirectX while everyone bitches and moans about some idea that was perpetrated back at launch and is now just a regurgitating thing to say at any Windows 8 thread or topic.

What a glowing recommendation, it's garbage but it is a fine operating system !!! I must immediately install it.

You also seem to be missing the key issue about making Dx 11.2 exclusive to Win 8.1. Sure you will be able to have it on your machine but it will never be utilised, the vast majority of gamers are still on Win 7 and they don't appear to be in any hurry to infect their gaming PC's with Win 8. So that means no developer will use Dx 11.2 but hey you can have it installed on your system so it sits there looking pretty.

Now had Microsoft made Dx 11.2 compatible with Win 7 as well, you would have seen developers more eager to use it. However as it is now Dx 11.2 will be even less of a footnote in history than Dx10 was.

blitzcloud · Jun 28, 2013

xemumanic said:
Yup. Gasping at straws if you ask me.

And just as I assumed, IE 11 IS coming to Windows 7. I'm betting if there's anything about it that's non-Win8.1 specific, 7 users will get it via that like they did with IE 10. Remember the silly debate we had here about that?

As I said before, 11.2 still isn't going to matter anyway. Nothing, not even of note, even uses 11.1.

Who could assume otherwise, considering all the quota of users they lost. Do you want it to continue?

The Janitor · Jun 28, 2013

Oooh this sounds interes-

for Windows 8.1 and Xbox One only

Nevermind.

chuckddd · Jun 28, 2013

xemumanic said:
Name a game that's going to use 11.2. Hell, name one that uses 11.1!

This is not the same as the DX10 situation.

This is supposed to make me feel better?

cripterion · Jun 28, 2013

LukasTaves said:
Direct 3D 11.2 comes if new core optimizations that should improve performance among all apps and games that recompiles using 11.2.

There are also 5 new features in the api:

- Hardware overlay support (Similar to Durango's display panes, allows the developer to render the 3d graphics of the app at lower than native resolution, while keeping 2d ui at native res composing the final frame at a native resolution). Developers can also target a framerate and let the gpu dynamically scales the 3d graphics to try to meet that criteria (basically dynamic resolution changing is now fully supported by the api)

- HSL shader linking. W8.1 store apps can compile shaders in runtime, so the behavior of the shaders can be dynamic. However compiling is slow, so this feature allows you to pre-compile shaders at build time and link them at runtime, this way you can create new dynamic shaders without the performance hit. Dynamics shaders could be used for instance for a game to test the performance of the device it's going to run and modify to a simpler or a more complex version of the shader to maintain the best visual quality while maintaining the target framerate. It's also useful for building shader library dlls that can be shared among different projects and each app decides how to build their shaders from this library.

- Mappeable gpu buffers. This is great for compute scenarios with collaboration of the cpu and gpu. They provide api support for the cpu directly access the gpu memory without needing to copy the buffer back and forth. For 11.2 it's going to be onlye for compute so it's only buffers, not graphical objects.

- Low latency present API. Basically api support for the system to tell the app when it's the best time to start rendering and showing the content on screen, to allow the shortest latency possible. By using this api they were able to reduce latency from 3 frames (at 60fps) to less than 1.

- Tiled Resources which is api support for hardware accelerated virtual texturing. It's basically hardware support for mega texturing.

Thanks for the info. This thread needs more posts like this.
All this sure sounds good on paper.

Mr. Wonderful · Jun 28, 2013

dragonelite said:
At the intern company all internship guys all bought the $30 upgrade hell even the owner we got a day off to fuck around in win 8. Install and boot on all laptops went well. I find it hard to believe that most laptop crashed only time i got win 8 to crash on me was when i abused opencl and forgot to bound check and corrupt memory. And then it was most of the time just an driver fail and win 8 recovered from it.

You did clean installs, I am sure.

Smash88 · Jun 28, 2013

TheD said:
So it is fine, yet a large chunk of it is "garbage".......

CharmingCharlie said:
What a glowing recommendation, it's garbage but it is a fine operating system !!! I must immediately install it.

You also seem to be missing the key issue about making Dx 11.2 exclusive to Win 8.1. Sure you will be able to have it on your machine but it will never be utilised, the vast majority of gamers are still on Win 7 and they don't appear to be in any hurry to infect their gaming PC's with Win 8. So that means no developer will use Dx 11.2 but hey you can have it installed on your system so it sits there looking pretty.

Now had Microsoft made Dx 11.2 compatible with Win 7 as well, you would have seen developers more eager to use it. However as it is now Dx 11.2 will be even less of a footnote in history than Dx10 was.

I love how both of you take away from my post that me calling the smallest part (Metro UI) garbarge is the topic here. Is it just normal yo stay this oblivious and ignorant?

I am just dumbfounded at what you took away from my post.

As for DX 11.2 not being utilised.... really? There were early adopters of DX10 on Vista in terms of gaming. Saying that just because there may not be widespread adoption = there will never be or won't for a long long time is extremely ignorant.

Also I remember reading similar posts such as yours about DX10 leaving a small footprint in terms of who would use it.

EDIT: In fact I wanted to add that I think DX11/11.1/11.2 will have a bigger impact than previous generations as Xbox One will be utilising it for nearly all of their games. Consoles are turning into to mini-computers essentially, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is how it would turn out.

DocSeuss · Jun 28, 2013

I wouldn't mind picking up 8.1... but I was under the impression it brought back the start menu, which is the primary reason I refused to pick up Windows 8 (should not have so many unintuitive clicks to get to basic system functions).

As I'm one of those "vote with your wallet" dudes, I'm not going to buy Windows 8 and pay for Start 8, because the only message Microsoft gets from that is "hey, someone bought Windows 8."

I'll be forgoing DX11.2, I suppose.

IcyRhythms · Jun 28, 2013

Any major AAA games that have known issues running on Windows 8?

Chance Hale · Jun 28, 2013

IcyRhythms said:
Any major AAA games that have known issues running on Windows 8?

I've been using it since November and have played just about every "big" game released since on PC with no issues. I read that L.A. Noire had some issues but I can play it now so I assume they were resolved.

DocSeuss said:
I wouldn't mind picking up 8.1... but I was under the impression it brought back the start menu, which is the primary reason I refused to pick up Windows 8 (should not have so many unintuitive clicks to get to basic system functions).
.

You need less clicks to access system fuctions. Start X or right clicking the bottom left corner brings up a menu with nearly every single admin feature, certainly the ones you would use on a regular basis at the least.

Jzero · Jun 28, 2013

IcyRhythms said:
Any major AAA games that have known issues running on Windows 8?

I haven't had problems with any games on my Steam library, even games that aren't supported on Windows 7/8.

Sysgen · Jun 28, 2013

DocSeuss said:
I wouldn't mind picking up 8.1... but I was under the impression it brought back the start menu, which is the primary reason I refused to pick up Windows 8 (should not have so many unintuitive clicks to get to basic system functions).

As I'm one of those "vote with your wallet" dudes, I'm not going to buy Windows 8 and pay for Start 8, because the only message Microsoft gets from that is "hey, someone bought Windows 8."

I'll be forgoing DX11.2, I suppose.

Start screen is fully customizable. Lower left corner, click or Win+I Control Panel. The horror!

GlenChivas · Jun 28, 2013

So does anyone know if this is included with the 8.1 preview build?

Valnen · Jun 28, 2013

PapaJustify said:
People don't even bother to have a closer look at Windows 8.1, which in my opinion is a vast improvement.
Some great improvements there.

They gave us a start button but didn't give us the correct start menu. They don't know how to listen.

Also, I've heard games have worse performance and less compatibility on 8. And the ONLY thing that matters to me when it comes to operating systems is game performance and compatibility on my PC.

fatgamecat · Jun 28, 2013

The start menu is more efficient (takes less or the same # of steps to do things), contains more features for accessing, organizing and managing shortcuts, has more shortcuts for easily accessing other parts of your computer such as network, devices, control panel, etc., better search (although search is apparently improved in 8.1), nested folder support, has true context menu functionality, and doesn't break workflow by covering up the entire screen when you want to launch something.

All management of shortcuts can be done within the start menu itself. With the start screen you need to open the actual folder in explorer (which is still ironically called the Start Menu folder in Win 8) even just to rename a shortcut or access shortcut properties.

Calling the start screen a "reskinned start menu" is false and ignores the many differences, all of which are reductions or removal of previous functionality.

As for calling people who prefer the start menu dumb, ignorant, haters, scared of change, etc.. name calling is not a particularly convincing argument. Once you start blaming your customers for rejecting your product, you're well on your way to market irrelevancy.

gribbles · Jun 28, 2013

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad and depressing.

I really wish Microsoft would go bankrupt already, they are the worst company in existence.

derExperte · Jun 28, 2013

Khorino said:
I got so used to it that I didn't know it was because Aero was a resource hog. I had it with my old PC too (Dual Core E7400, GTS 250 and 4 GB RAM) and it happened with different installations. I gotta say that Windows 8 look is better than Windows 7 Basic, so that helped.

Then there was something else wrong, maybe a program you had running in the background on both PCs. Because Aero certainly doesn't deactivate itself on modern PCs, last time that happened frequently was during the early Vista days with shoddy drivers. And it doesn't use up much RAM which becomes completely available anyway as soon as a fullscreen app like a game starts.

gribbles said:
I really wish Microsoft would go bankrupt already, they are the worst company in existence.

Absolutely, DX11.2 exclusivity makes me so damn angry, fucking up the environment, ruining the economy or producing weapons doesn't even come close.

Hawk269 · Jun 28, 2013

Brerlappin said:
Its a piece of shit that falls over at the drop of a hat. The amount of W8 laptops ive seen in work that have catastrophic OS failures or just refused to boot into the OS is ridiculous.

I have 2 laptops and a desktop with Win 8 and never had any issues remotely close to what you are saying. No one I know has had those problems as well. On my Desktop which is purely a gaming rig it has been great. With a SSD on all of the machines I have it boot really fast and so far has been pretty amazing...with 8.1 bringing even better improvements, I don't see why anyone would not use it.

CharmingCharlie · Jun 28, 2013

Smash88 said:
I love how both of you take away from my post that me calling the smallest part (Metro UI) garbarge is the topic here. Is it just normal yo stay this oblivious and ignorant?

I love the way you try to underplay the Metro UI the actual desktop interface is an afterthought in Win 8 if Microsoft had their way they would've ditched the desktop interface completely and forced people to use the shitty Metro UI.

I am just dumbfounded that you described a major part of the Win 8 interface as "garbage" and "small part" and then call it a great OS.

Smash88 said:
As for DX 11.2 not being utilised.... really? There were early adopters of DX10 on Vista in terms of gaming. Saying that just because there may not be widespread adoption = there will never be or won't for a long long time is extremely ignorant.

Also I remember reading similar posts such as yours about DX10 leaving a small footprint in terms of who would use it.

There were sod all games using Dx10 after it came out. Even today SEVEN YEARS after it's release and with nearly 99% of PC gamers on a Dx10 system you find most games released are still Dx9. Finding a game that actually makes full use of Dx10 is a rarity.

A lot of this was down to the way MS made Dx 10 vista exclusive and since the majority of PC gamers found Vista to be nothing short of the plague we all stayed with win xp and Dx 9.

Smash88 said:
EDIT: In fact I wanted to add that I think DX11/11.1/11.2 will have a bigger impact than previous generations as Xbox One will be utilising it for nearly all of their games. Consoles are turning into to mini-computers essentially, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is how it would turn out.

Well we all have our "flights of fantasy" I guess. It is irrelevant what the Xbone will use. If the majority of PC gamers are still using Win 7 and Dx10/11 then that is what developers will use on the PC.

Vestal · Jun 28, 2013

gribbles said:
This would be funny if it wasn't so sad and depressing.

I really wish Microsoft would go bankrupt already, they are the worst company in existence.

How the hell do you expect to be taking seriously when you make a post like this??

Please give me an argument in how Microsoft is the wrost company in existance.

LQX · Jun 28, 2013

Man, I remember back in the day when a DX upgrade was a big fucking deal. Times have changed.

blindrocket · Jun 28, 2013

Man, MS. Why do you have to be all MS on us?

Bsigg12 · Jun 28, 2013

blindrocket said:
Man, MS. Why do you have to be all MS on us?

Because they are running a business and need to push their new products? It's like Android 4.0+ not working on a vast majority of phones when it came out, Google was pushing a new standard.

Xbudz · Jun 28, 2013

DX11.2 is Xbox One's secret sauce.
Microsoft essentially said they can do far more details with much less ram.

Guri · Jun 28, 2013

derExperte said:
Then there was something else wrong, maybe a program you had running in the background on both PCs. Because Aero certainly doesn't deactivate itself on modern PCs, last time that happened frequently was during the early Vista days with shoddy drivers. And it doesn't use up much RAM which becomes completely available anyway as soon as a fullscreen app like a game starts.

Not really! It happened rarely, but it did. And just for a few minutes, then it activated again. Maybe it was a bug, but I did. Anyway, I don't miss Aero now. I'm very happy without it.

charsace · Jun 28, 2013

This thread is hilarious. The thing the holds back OGL is the shitty documentation. Its a chore finding good documentation for OGL versions that are 3+. With MS you have the website that has good documentation. And the performance gain you get using OGL really small.

StudioTan · Jun 28, 2013

CharmingCharlie said:
I love the way you try to underplay the Metro UI the actual desktop interface is an afterthought in Win 8 if Microsoft had their way they would've ditched the desktop interface completely and forced people to use the shitty Metro UI.

This is simply not true and you completely miss the entire point of the OS. If MS had been wanting to deprecate the desktop they wouldn't have added so many improvements and new features to it.

The Metro UI serves 2 purposes, as a stand alone environment which is designed primarily for touch which works well with devices such as tablets and as a launcher for the desktop. Windows 8 was designed to be useable on all form factors. To that end they resigned the Start menu, which was always slow and clunky as a launcher, to work faster and better with both touch and with a mouse and keyboard. Twirling down folders in a list is a very slow way to launch programs and you have a limit space to show information. The Start screen provides more information and makes it easier to find programs and faster to launch them.

If you're working on a desktop PC it's possible to ignore the Metro side completely and that's fine. I do use it as a launcher but most of the programs I need day to day are pinned to my task bar and it's easier to launch them from there. You also see the power of the OS if you have a hybrid device like a transformable tablet. When docked or hooked up to a monitor you can spend your time on the desktop side but if you want you can pick it up and move entirely to a touch or pen environment.

8.1 bring a lot of improvements to the OS but bringing back the Start menu wouldn't be an improvement, it needed to be replaced. Real world use data shows the Start screen is much more efficient as a launcher than the Start menu ever was.

LukasTaves · Jun 28, 2013

Valnen said:
They gave us a start button but didn't give us the correct start menu. They don't know how to listen.

Also, I've heard games have worse performance and less compatibility on 8. And the ONLY thing that matters to me when it comes to operating systems is game performance and compatibility on my PC.

Dunno about lessened compatibility, but there are absolutely no reason on why would any game perform worse. The whole system is much faster than Win7, for games it should be at least equal, unless the game has some very serious driver issues.

Unknown Soldier · Jun 28, 2013

Theonik said:
Takes about 128MB worth of VRAM iirc.

There aren't a lot of games out there where 128 MB of VRAM makes much of a difference. You're either using a fraction of your video card's 2 GB of VRAM, which is often the case since a lot of games are console ports, or you're blowing right through it and beyond because you're trying to use SSAA 2x or 4x and it's killing your video card stone dead.

blindrocket said:
Man, MS. Why do you have to be all MS on us?

Because MS gonna MS. This is the company which gave us, and then hastily widthdrew, Xbox 180 DRM after all.

patchday · Jun 28, 2013

Windows 8 only what the frak!!!

Pops Maellard · Jun 28, 2013

LukasTaves said:
Dunno about lessened compatibility, but there are absolutely no reason on why would any game perform worse. The whole system is much faster than Win7, for games it should be at least equal, unless the game has some very serious driver issues.

Windows 8 is kind of noticeably superior for gaming, most of the hatred on that front is just a combination of Gaben's comments a while back and the general W8 backlash. I will say that 8.1 /in it's current state/ is rather unoptimized compared to 8. I tried the preview yesterday, and went from around 40 fps in Battlefield 3 on high (with Windows 8) to 27-35 on low (with the 8.1 preview).

LukasTaves · Jun 28, 2013

tournanext said:
The start menu is more efficient (takes less or the same # of steps to do things), contains more features for accessing, organizing and managing shortcuts, has more shortcuts for easily accessing other parts of your computer such as network, devices, control panel, etc., better search (although search is apparently improved in 8.1), nested folder support, has true context menu functionality, and doesn't break workflow by covering up the entire screen when you want to launch something.

I disagree with this completely, even considering win8 vanilla. The start menu was always a mess, full of bloat and organizing a huge list of installed apps alphabetically is not a good way at all.

The start screen may not have system shortcuts, but they are all there with a simple win+x (or right click in the lower left corner) menu for accessing system apps. There are probably even more shortcuts there than would fit on the start menu too.

Nested folder support is like the worst feature you could ask for, specially when it gets constantly bloated by each app you install.

Also as for the search, it might take using different shortcuts to get the category you want, but they perform the search faster and shows more results.

borghe said:
All management of shortcuts can be done within the start menu itself. With the start screen you need to open the actual folder in explorer (which is still ironically called the Start Menu folder in Win 8) even just to rename a shortcut or access shortcut properties.

Having to open a explorer window is a small compromise to pay when you factor in how much faster can you find the app you are looking for, specially when you don't remember its name to just type it.

borghe said:
Calling the start screen a "reskinned start menu" is false and ignores the many differences, all of which are reductions or removal of previous functionality.

The functionalities are still in the os, but on the other hand, it got many other improvements that are not available in win7, like live tiles, organizing apps in a grid view instead of a list (which allows you to find apps by their positions instead of scrolling an infinite list) and also group them as you please, be it categories, most usage, or any criteria you want.

Azull · Jun 28, 2013

Windows 8 exclusive

Meh, I'm over it.

senahorse · Jun 28, 2013

Cannon Goose said:
Except that Windows 8 still doesn't work with D3DOverrider.

That makes it an awful OS

Huh, it works fine.

fatgamecat · Jun 28, 2013

LukasTaves said:
I disagree with this completely, even considering win8 vanilla. The start menu was always a mess, full of bloat and organizing a huge list of installed apps alphabetically is not a good way at all.

"A huge list of installed apps" is exactly what you get with the start screen, with the added issue of being more difficult to manage and organize than the start menu.

Removing nested folders means more clutter, not less. The start screen All Apps contains all the same shortcuts you'd find in a start menu nested folder structure, but placed on a flat, uneven, and difficult to manage list. The start screen tries to "hide the clutter" by adding a new screen consisting of pinned shortcuts, but the All Apps list is far worse than any start menu clutter. Win 8 program installers simply get into the habit of auto-pinning all their shortcuts to the pinned list, bringing you back to step 1.

The start menu is more efficient (takes less or the same # of steps to do things), and those keyboard shortcuts do not change that, nor does the start menu require the keyboard at all unless you want to search for something. Win 8 search does not show more results, that's one of the things MS is trying to improve in 8.1.

I assume you don't have any response to the other things I noted such as lack of context menu support, fullscreen size interrupting workflow, and impossibility of managing shortcuts without going into the folder(s) in desktop mode using explorer.

danielcw · Jun 28, 2013

Ce-Lin said:
what is left to elaborate ? if you've never coded using different APIs or simply don't trust a stranger (me) maybe you'd rather believe known devs such as Valve

Well, the reason for it, the why.
This isn't about trust. It doesn't matter who says it, as I don't believing in arguing by authority. I really wanted to know the explanation.
(this isn't about me defending Direct3D either, as I never picked a side in that battle)

JaggedSac · Jun 28, 2013

LukasTaves said:
Direct 3D 11.2 comes if new core optimizations that should improve performance among all apps and games that recompiles using 11.2.

There are also 5 new features in the api:

- Hardware overlay support (Similar to Durango's display panes, allows the developer to render the 3d graphics of the app at lower than native resolution, while keeping 2d ui at native res composing the final frame at a native resolution). Developers can also target a framerate and let the gpu dynamically scales the 3d graphics to try to meet that criteria (basically dynamic resolution changing is now fully supported by the api)

- HSL shader linking. W8.1 store apps can compile shaders in runtime, so the behavior of the shaders can be dynamic. However compiling is slow, so this feature allows you to pre-compile shaders at build time and link them at runtime, this way you can create new dynamic shaders without the performance hit. Dynamics shaders could be used for instance for a game to test the performance of the device it's going to run and modify to a simpler or a more complex version of the shader to maintain the best visual quality while maintaining the target framerate. It's also useful for building shader library dlls that can be shared among different projects and each app decides how to build their shaders from this library.

- Mappeable gpu buffers. This is great for compute scenarios with collaboration of the cpu and gpu. They provide api support for the cpu directly access the gpu memory without needing to copy the buffer back and forth. For 11.2 it's going to be onlye for compute so it's only buffers, not graphical objects.

- Low latency present API. Basically api support for the system to tell the app when it's the best time to start rendering and showing the content on screen, to allow the shortest latency possible. By using this api they were able to reduce latency from 3 frames (at 60fps) to less than 1.

- Tiled Resources which is api support for hardware accelerated virtual texturing. It's basically hardware support for mega texturing.

Cool, thanks for the summary.

StudioTan · Jun 28, 2013

tournanext said:
The start menu is more efficient (takes less or the same # of steps to do things)

How is that true? I have dozens of tiles that are accessible in 2 clicks, organized into groups. All my games in are in the same group and I can launch them in 2 seconds or less. If I wanted to run something like Darksiders (without typing it in) I'd have to twirl down Programs > scroll > twirl down THQ > click Darksiders. In Windows 8 I click the corner, click the tile which requires less precision because it's large.

wildfire · Jun 28, 2013

tournanext said:
The start menu is more efficient (takes less or the same # of steps to do things), contains more features for accessing, organizing and managing shortcuts, has more shortcuts for easily accessing other parts of your computer such as network, devices, control panel, etc., better search (although search is apparently improved in 8.1), nested folder support, has true context menu functionality, and doesn't break workflow by covering up the entire screen when you want to launch something.

All management of shortcuts can be done within the start menu itself. With the start screen you need to open the actual folder in explorer (which is still ironically called the Start Menu folder in Win 8) even just to rename a shortcut or access shortcut properties.

Calling the start screen a "reskinned start menu" is false and ignores the many differences, all of which are reductions or removal of previous functionality.

As for calling people who prefer the start menu dumb, ignorant, haters, scared of change, etc.. name calling is not a particularly convincing argument. Once you start blaming your customers for rejecting your product, you're well on your way to market irrelevancy.

Wait a minute. I assumed 8.1 was supposed to bring back all the functionality of the start bar. What is going to be missing?

CharmingCharlie said:
I love the way you try to underplay the Metro UI the actual desktop interface is an afterthought in Win 8 if Microsoft had their way they would've ditched the desktop interface completely and forced people to use the shitty Metro UI.

A terrible UI doesn't mean the OS is going to be a system hog like Vista (in fact it has better performance than 7 by all accounts) nor does it mean the OS doesn't build on features lacking in the previous OS.

The UI change is a barrier but they are addressing it.

Mew2 · Jun 28, 2013

You'd imagine that this would be the standard as the new consoles come rolling in...

Has 8.1 warranted the upgrade yet? I do love me some 7...

fatgamecat · Jun 28, 2013

wildfire said:
Wait a minute. I assumed 8.1 was supposed to bring back all the functionality of the start bar. What is going to be missing?

All they are bringing back is the taskbar button, which still leads you to the start screen. The start menu itself isn't returning.

StudioTan said:
How is that true?

Start menu also has dozens of list entries that can be accessible with two clicks. You can organize all your games into the same folder if desired and drag them into any order you like as well. You can set large size icons if you want, and the start menu doesn't have to take up the whole screen if you don't want it to. It's nice to have options instead of being forced to use a fullscreen launcher with giant, hard to manage tiles.

When you install a game in Win 8, it won't immediately be put into your "Games" group, it'll be pinned to the start screen either in its own group or uncategorized. You have to manually drag it to the group you want. Or in some cases it won't be pinned and you have to go digging through All Apps for it. When you install a program in Win 7, you have to drag the shortcut from its default location, or pin it to the top layer of the start menu.

I prefer the XP start menu most, they mucked things up a bit with 7, unfortunately.

Krilekk · Jun 28, 2013

gribbles said:
This would be funny if it wasn't so sad and depressing.

I really wish Microsoft would go bankrupt already, they are the worst company in existence.

Try googling Monsanto.

slapnuts · Jun 28, 2013

tournanext said:
The start menu is more efficient (takes less or the same # of steps to do things), contains more features for accessing, organizing and managing shortcuts, has more shortcuts for easily accessing other parts of your computer such as network, devices, control panel, etc., better search (although search is apparently improved in 8.1), nested folder support, has true context menu functionality, and doesn't break workflow by covering up the entire screen when you want to launch something.

All management of shortcuts can be done within the start menu itself. With the start screen you need to open the actual folder in explorer (which is still ironically called the Start Menu folder in Win 8) even just to rename a shortcut or access shortcut properties.

Calling the start screen a "reskinned start menu" is false and ignores the many differences, all of which are reductions or removal of previous functionality.

As for calling people who prefer the start menu dumb, ignorant, haters, scared of change, etc.. name calling is not a particularly convincing argument. Once you start blaming your customers for rejecting your product, you're well on your way to market irrelevancy.

I totally agree - It took a week or so for me to fully grasp the benefits of moving to Windows 8 Pro 64bit ...but once i fully understood and seen the vast improvements over Windows 7 ...i will never go back to Windows 7, ever! Windows 8 is a very good OS once you start using it's assets it provides and the user-friendly interface. It just baffles me why so much hate towards windows 8 is in this thread. Windows 8.1 is going to further expand the positives of windows 8 as well. Now is the time to move to windows 8 and give it it's fair chance with a unbiased attitude.

The problem with people is that they go into new things with a "already" biased attitude...you know, you go into something already thinking negative you will get negative results and only see the negatives or you can go into something with a positive attitude and you will see its positives. This stands true with games as well, with life as well!

It's their own loss bro - i find it stupid to argue with hard headed people that refuse to look at things with a opened unbiased positive mind.

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