• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Double Fine: Broken Age (KS) released in two parts via Steam Early Access Jan/May '14

DCDW

Member
Time for the documentary episode where Tim swipes the copper wiring from a construction site.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
You say that as though Kickstarters are taking people for a ride.
Is there a Marvel vs. Capcom Kickstarter?

This actually seems weirder for people who aren't backers. Do they also get to just download the last half of the game for free? That seems super weird.
 
So avoiding video game Kickstarters has been a very wise choice for me so far.

I've backed a couple, to be fair, but the only one of those I feel confident in is Shovel Knight.

Board game Kickstarters, on the other hand, have been excellent and have delivered beautifully.
 

Randdalf

Member
They are after behavior is established as is the case with DF. Starting fresh, i usually give most an optimistic edge. Ive backed around 20 KS projects.

If they started another Kickstarter to fund the game then I could see that point of view, yeah. However, they've generated more money independently through their own resources, and you're getting a game that, at the end of the day, is more than what you backed for in the first place.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
I really see no problem with this. They are being open to the fans about the way they're developing the game so they don't run out of money.

But let me guess, one person read the phrase "we're running out of money", complaint about it, and many others took it to heart and didn't even read what he said. FFS.
 

SparkTR

Member
Is there a Marvel vs. Capcom Kickstarter?

This actually seems weirder for people who aren't backers. Do they also get to just download the last half of the game for free? That seems super weird.

Shouldn't be weird for people who have used Steam Early Access.
 

inm8num2

Member
This has been a fascinating examination of game development. We're going through some rough spots but hopefully all works out in the end.
 

pa22word

Member
They are after behavior is established as is the case with DF. Starting fresh, i usually give most an optimistic edge. Ive backed around 20 KS projects.

I think saying DF took people for a ride is a little bit extreme, don't you think? Did they fuck up here? Yeah, and royally so, but even implying they did it intentionally is pretty unfounded.
 

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
Latest episode mentions something along the lines of a 6 million dollar budget (that's before the modest cuts announced here).
Assuming they need a million or so more with the cuts involved, even at a selling price of something like 30$ they'd need at least 400k units sold, and I'm taking everything very broadly here. That's a lot for that type of game
 

t26

Member
It's disappointing that they're in the situation to have to do it, but I don't take issue as long as the final product is good and polished.

I think the issue is would sales of the first half of the game be able to fund the second half.
 

p2535748

Member
Is there a Marvel vs. Capcom Kickstarter?

This actually seems weirder for people who aren't backers. Do they also get to just download the last half of the game for free? That seems super weird.

It's early access, so people would be buying the whole game and getting early access to the first half. A lot of early access games are like this (though usually not story based ones), you pay for the game upfront and get some unfinished version of it immediately.
 

Zeliard

Member
Earlier must be a euphemism, right? I think the Kickstarter promised it for October 2012. Now we're talking about 2014, maybe even 2015 for the full game. That is ridiculous.

It would have been 2015 for the full game, according to Tim; any earlier than that without the split would have necessitated "drastic cuts" to the overall game's content. Part of the reason they're splitting the game into two is to avoid such a lengthy delay and even greater costs, as well as to avoid having to compromise on the scope of the game. In the end, we're getting a significant chunk of the game a year or more earlier than we would have otherwise.

And of course these Kickstarter games are going to see major delays when they are making much bigger games with the money they got. I'm not sure how you can expect a hard release date with a game originally budgeted at 400k (quite a bit less actually due to the documentary + other fees) versus one that made 3 million. Bigger games require more dev time.

My only problem with this whole thing is Double Fine not letting people know about it before their other KS project finished up. Full transparency is the primary way to avoid a lot of controversies with KS projects.
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
I really see no problem with this. They are being open to the fans about the way they're developing the game so they don't run out of money.

But let me guess, one person read the phrase "we're running out of money", complaint about it, and many others took it to heart and didn't even read what he said. FFS.

They're being open with their fans?

They asked for more money for a second kickstarter before they mentioned any of this. I would hardly call that being open.

Being grossly incompetent and going over budget is one thing (whatever this is the norm for their games and I'm honestly okay with that). I really don't like the fact they kept all of this hidden when they went to go ask more of their loyal supporters for more money.
 

hamchan

Member
It's disappointing that they're in the situation to have to do it, but I don't take issue as long as the final product is good and polished.

Agreed. Even considering the scope of the game, it's going to be longer than what we originally thought it would be when we pledged but shorter than whatever crazy thing Tim thought of when he started designing it. A middle ground still sounds good.

Also people in this thread thinking they're only giving half a game are idiots.
 
I think a lot of people underestimated how long it can take to finish an adventure game. I still don't understand how Monkey Island 1 only took six months to finish.
 

t26

Member
Assuming they need a million or so more with the cuts involved, even at a selling price of something like 30$ they'd need at least 400k units sold, and I'm taking everything very broadly here. That's a lot for that type of game

This. So what happen if the only sold 200k? How are they going to get funding for rest of the game?
 

jett

D-Member
I take it the majority of you who pledged haven't been keeping up with the updates or watching the development videos.

The majority of people in this thread probably didn't pledge. I can't imagine someone that put money into this not reading Tim's update. So much disinformation here, it's ridiculous. This is GAF at its worst, people just looking for an excuse to shit on someone.
 

BanGy.nz

Banned
The scope of the game got away from them, it happens. This is the best possible option out of list of really terrible options.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
The majority of people in this thread probably didn't pledge. I can't imagine someone that put money into this not reading Tim's update. So much disinformation here, it's ridiculous. This is GAF at its worst, people just looking for an excuse to shit on someone.

And you're on the opposite extreme, seeing nothing wrong, and making wild assumptions about everyone making negative comments. Calm down.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Shouldn't be weird for people who have used Steam Early Access.
I have never seen it used in such a way. In general I don't really understand how pushing out so much of the project polished up and then doing the rest a few months later is efficient at all. I can't imagine it would've been that big of a deal for them to just wait and do it all at once.
 

iammeiam

Member
So basically... they're going to fund the rest of the overages themselves/through selling the game, I still get everything they initially promised me when I backed, it's just going to take longer to deliver? Kind of what I expect from Kickstarters at this point. And adventure games by nature work well as episodic releases, I think--Telltale has an entire company based on it.

I have backed 18 projects at various levels. Of those, 0 delivered on-time, 4 delivered promised results varying degrees of late, 7 have not delivered, are late, but are keeping me updated enough I still believe they will deliver, and 7 are due at some point in the far-off future. Kickstarters coming out late is the almost inevitable result of the format, and it's nothing I get angry about. DF's transparency regarding the status of the project is appreciated, and ultimately if I get a better game out of it I'm not going to be too upset.

Which I suppose means I have not learned my lesson and will continue to fall for the great scam that is Kickstarter, but as long as the cool stuff I want eventually shows up I'm fine with being a sucker.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
They're being open with their fans?

They asked for more money for a second kickstarter before they mentioned any of this. I would hardly call that being open.

Being grossly incompetent and going over budget is one thing (whatever this is the norm for their games and I'm honestly okay with that). I really don't like the fact they kept all of this hidden when they went to go ask more of their loyal supporters for more money.

Yes, you're right, and even though I don't want to blame it on people, I have to in this case. People don't fucking read. It is seen in this thread, and just imagine how fucking bad their Kickstarter would have fared had they talked about it before it finished.

Sure they could have taken the earlier route, to which I'd reply the same: People are not reading what he said, and are taking it out of context, thinking they screwed up, when they have just announced a strategy to prevent the loss of more money.

Also their second KS is from another team with no involvement from Schafer as far as I know. Should they suffer because people don't know how to read?
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Yes, you're right, and even though I don't want to blame it on people, I have to in this case. People don't fucking read. It is seen in this thread, and just imagine how fucking bad their Kickstarter would have fared had they talked about it before it finished.

Sure they could have taken the earlier route, to which I'd reply the same: People are not reading what he said, and are taking it out of context, thinking they screwed up, when they have just announced a strategy to prevent the loss of more money.

Also their second KS is from another team with no involvement from Schafer as far as I know. Should they suffer because people don't know how to read?

I keep seeing this too and its stupid.

It's a different team, its not being made by the same people, Schafer isn't even involved.

It's still a game being made by DF. I keep seeing people defend this games delay with the justification of an excuse that they're too stretched out making too many games. That's not my problem, thats theirs for not managing their shit correctly.

So yes they should have "suffered" for their co-workers failures.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
I keep seeing this too and its stupid.

It's a different team, its not being made by the same people, Schafer isn't even involved.

It's still a game being made by DF. I keep seeing people defend this games delay with the justification of an excuse that they're too stretched out making too many games. That's not my problem, thats theirs for not managing their shit correctly.

So yes they should have "suffered" for their co-workers failures.

Jesus H. Christ, why the heck are you quote selecting my post?

EDIT: And I mean replying to what convenes you. I am talking if they should suffer about people's inability to read correctly what they said.

EDIT 2: Ignore the part you bolded and reply to me again.
 

see5harp

Member
This does suck. I was hoping on playing the full game soon. I'd be lying if i said I didn't think the documentary was worth my measly $20 contribution though. Hopefully the game ends up being great.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Assuming they need a million or so more with the cuts involved, even at a selling price of something like 30$ they'd need at least 400k units sold, and I'm taking everything very broadly here. That's a lot for that type of game

Wait, what?

If they sold 400,000 units at $20, that would be $8,000,000. Take away Steam's cut (often said to be around 30%) and that's still $5.6 million.

They'd need to do around 70,000 copies at $20 to make a million after Steam's cut.
 

vazel

Banned
This is kind of a joke. They look like children incapable of managing themselves, needing the parentage of publishers.
 
Maybe now people will realize "stretch goals" are complete bullshit. Don't view it buying more features - view it as literally causing feature creep that will destroy the very thing you're backing.
 

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
Wait, what?

If they sold 400,000 units at $20, that would be $8,000,000. Take away Steam's cut (often said to be around 30%) and that's still $5.6 million.

They'd need to do around 70,000 copies at $20 to make a million after Steam's cut.
I can't calculate for shit, my bad

But still at least a sign of why they are confident enough to reach the sales goal should be included IMO
 
They're being open with their fans?

They asked for more money for a second kickstarter before they mentioned any of this. I would hardly call that being open.

Being grossly incompetent and going over budget is one thing (whatever this is the norm for their games and I'm honestly okay with that). I really don't like the fact they kept all of this hidden when they went to go ask more of their loyal supporters for more money.

I realize I'm probably not going to change many opinions one way or the other, but we have actually been discussing the budget issues in the documentary for several months. It's not new for backers who have been following the updates. This episode was the one in which we determined the way to get the game finished, not the one in which we discovered we had over-scoped in the first place.

Obviously this situation isn't ideal, but it's the reality we're in now. We are going to get the game done. As Tim said in the original Kickstarter video, "We are going to show you how the sausage gets made. We are going to take our sausage and shove it in your face, warts and all. Whether it goes well, or whether it all goes to hell, we're going to show everything."

Ultimately, showing all these rough patches is part of what makes the whole documentary experience, which was a major part of what the Kickstarter was about in the first place. It wasn't just for a game, it was for everything. Tim's note was intended to be read in the context of people who have been watching the documentaries and following the updates; that's why it was sent as a backer update, and not released as a press release or announcement (even though sites have obviously run with it).

We will finish the game—yes, we're Double Fine, and we often go over time and over budget. But the games get done, and so will this one. As it turns out, even the new plan isn't actually a long development cycle relative to most games.

Despite all this, the game itself is actually looking great (which is hopefully evident to people watching the documentary), and 2PP will continue their excellent episodic work until release. Backers still won't have to pay any additional money for any part of the game.

There's not really much else to say about it beyond all of that—hopefully, our backers stick with us, because the documentary has always been a big part of this process and it's still going strong. I don't think anyone has ever done a game dev documentary this comprehensive, and I hope people aren't overlooking the value of that.

For everyone else, well, there's going to be a new Tim Schafer/Double Fine adventure game and a massive documentary at the end of all this, and after all this logistical stuff has passed, that's really the point.
 

espher

Member
I'd be okay with this if I had Kickstarted it.

I didn't, so it doesn't impact me, and I don't think it's deceptive or particularly dishonest. They planned one project, exceeded funding expectations, and grew it into a different project, which was probably a bad idea in hindsight, but they're probably stuck pushing that one to completion given expectations now (and likely sunk costs).
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Chris, send my regards to the team. They really don't deserve so much flak. Sure, some is deserved, but not most of it, which continues to happen as of the last minute.
 
I don't really have a problem with this. The way some people are reacting you'd think that the pledges were being asked to pay separate for part 2 or something. They are still getting a full game as promised. Welcome to game development I guess. Shit is bumpy enough with the backing of a major publisher, so of course things aren't going to go 100% smooth without it, but I don't think DF is doing anything nefarious or deceptive here in the least bit.
 
Top Bottom