baphomet
Member
That can be taken care of with a kenzei, and will work with any VGA source on the mini.
Personally I would look into something that is better at upscaling 480p.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
- Status
That can be taken care of with a kenzei, and will work with any VGA source on the mini.
Personally I would look into something that is better at upscaling 480p.
Then be wary of defective units, because I sure as hell have one. I get sound popping in and out and graphical artifacts when I connect 3 or more sources to it. I know someone posted they're rebuilding their bandridge switch from scratch and I assume due to similar issues with it.
But maybe I'm just unlucky.
GayForMaster
Banned
That's unfortunate to hear. I'm not really using mine right now so if you're interested in an actual working one I could hook you up.
inb4shill
What are you guys thoughts on RGB cable for the PS2/3 (PS3 because of my PS1 games running on it)? Everywhere there are component cables recommended but while giving better colors there comes heavy aliasing and jagged edges with the sharpness. My only reference regarding image quality (with my PS1/2 games) is with composite cables since I do not own a RGB one, yet, and RGB on GameCube vs component on Wii.
Here I took a quick comparison on another system setup:
Component, 480p, Wii on HDTV
I wish I could achieve the colorfull image from the first pic with those smooth edges of the tube on the second pic. As you now know what I want, what setup/cables do you guys recommend for my PS1 and PS2 games?
Here I took a quick comparison on another system setup:
Component, 480p, Wii on HDTV
RGB, 480i, GameCube, on my tube TV
I wish I could achieve the colorfull image from the first pic with those smooth edges of the tube on the second pic. As you now know what I want, what setup/cables do you guys recommend for my PS1 and PS2 games?
StevieWhite
Member
Yeah, I was thinking about getting another Mini and a Kenzei. Basically, I just changed my "primary" gaming location to another room, and the upscaler came along for the ride. I'd like to have something hooked up to another TV for when I've got people over.
I received mine fairly recently but noticed none of the problems you are mentioning. All the Scarts are used with three consoles, a digital TV receiver and a DVD player. I played a bit, watched a film, everything was smooth. I was more concerned with some potential added audio noise or picture darkening, but everything is fine there too. In my opinion a fairly good Scart switch box, with the (much needed) added bonus of automatic switching.
Someone posted in this thread about how the box can give +5V to the deviced plugged in Scart5, and how to mod it so it doesn't happen. This is because of the record function of the box: when the record button on the box is pressed, the input from Scart1-4 is duplicated and sent to Scart5. There shouldn't be any current sent to Scart5 otherwise, but maybe some early models were faulty in that regard. I haven't noticed this problem either on mine.
Seems like the problem may be with your TV internal upscaler.
Isn't the PS1 on PS3 emulation? I believe the PS3 would do a much better job upscaling its image and sending 1080p to your TV than having it output 480i upscaled by your TV. I would advise you to keep HDMI on the PS3. Scart RGB is mainly good for older sources and CRT, if one is missing there are better options than RGB.
I have two Scart cables for Playstations, both third parties, both meh. They're fine picture-wise, but aren't shielded so subject to audio noise. You're fine if you're using the digital audio out of the console and a separate amplifier, but otherwise your only hope is the properly-shielded cable from that good lady on eBay.
BONKERS
Member
My head sits about 7-10 Feet away I think.
Which is about the right distance, otherwise the low line resolution is really apparent on 240p content.
Jagged lines, or Aliasing is going to happen NO MATTER WHAT. These games are really low resolution, with rarely Anti Aliasing. So getting a cleaner signal from the system to the TV is going to result in a more accurate representation of what the game actually looks like. Which is aliased to say the least. You'll get used to it.
What you see on your Tube is more than likely the sharpness is just turned down and or the set is blurring it a bit more due to antiflicker filters or something and on your HDTV the image is being over processed and over sharpened. There is a LOT of ringing
PS2 Component cables are fine in my testing on the PS2 itself for PS1 games. On a PS3 though, PS1 is emulation. Which isn't a huge deal except for a bit more latency (Won't matter for things like RPGs)and you can't get 240p on a CRT with this. But you can get line doubled 480p which is good too.
I thought about connecting my PS2/3 (via RGB) to my CRT when playing PS1 games. Wouldn't that look better than an upscaled picture on my HDTV?
I always turn down the sharpness. On my HDTV, too. It was set it to 0 as I was taking the picture but it still gets me those horrible egdes. Maybe it's some other internal processing I cannot help with :/
I know that there will be aliasing due to low res but I thought about component cables/HDMI showing them more than my old tube with its scanlines.
Yes, but it's more a question of "does upscaled 480p (or lower) look better on my HDTV than non-480p on my CRT" (because of the heavy visible edges that aren't that visible on my CRT). As for PS1 games I didn't know they would support 480p, though.
BONKERS
Member
No, they'd look worse actually> Because you can only get 480i unless your CRT supports 480p. And it doesn't look super awful, it doesn't look as good as native 240p, and unless you use the shitty blurring filter the screen constantly flickers like crazy. Your best option for PS1 games is either upscale it to 720p with the PS3 without the smoothing filter. Or play it on a PSP/PSVita. I've heard that PS1 games on a PSP Go through the video out with component set to 480i that games will display native 240p. You could get a charging cradle, pair it with a DS3 and do it that way if it's true.
The edge enhancement definitely sounds like the TV is mucking things up. Have you tried setting the input into 4:4:4 0-255 mode? Usually can do this by changing the label to Game, or PC, or DVI/DVI PC, or turning on Game mode (depending on the set, some newer Sony's for example).
For PS1 games on a PS1/2, RGB on a CRT will look better than upscaled on an LCD. There is absolutely no question about it.
Given you have a PS2, I don't see the point of playing PS1 games on a PS3. You'll have inherent input lag from the emulation and the wireless controllers and worse compatibility / new bugs than with the original machines.
Now does playing a PS3 with RGB on a CRT better looking than HDMI on an LCD? Maybe it can be argued. I have no first-hand experience in that. Some people could say that most games aren't 1080p (in fact, many are rendered at 720p, with quite a few even lower) but are upscaled by the console, downsampled image could look good, a CRT has no input/display lag, better colours and blacks, smooth pixels. In my opinion the better way to use the previous generation console would be with Component on an HD CRT.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
The first step toward an optimal setup for PS1/PS2 games is "don't play them on a PS3."
PS3 "HD" games (HD in quotation marks because HD starts for me with 1080p, nothing less) look OK. Image with component and HDMI on an HDTV is the same. Differences may show up with close cam off-screen shots but I don't see any with naked eye (and I'm pretty picky regarding IQ). I'd rather not play them on a SD CRT (already done that...).
Hahaha, yes. I have both PS1 and 2. The reason I wanted to play on PS3 is convenience so I don't have to fiddle around with MemCards and don't have to put up another console(s) on my shelf that's already pretty filled...
645 dropping the truth bomb.
PS2 via RGB or Component to an XRGB Mini. Set the Mini to 480p output (rather than 720p or 1080p) because it stays pretty soft. That's what I do. Plus lower the sharpness on your HDTV to zero.
It's going to be quite a bit sharper than the lower image, but still not razor, razor, razor sharp in my opinion.
By the way, if you don't have an XRGB Mini, don't buy one for what I just described. This is just a suggestion as to what you could do if you already have the equipment, but it still won't look like a CRT.
I don't have one. But thanks for the input, however!
digita1alchemy
Member
Any suggestions on this? I am pretty content playing 240p stuff on my PVM, but I'd love something that excels at making 480i/480p stuff look good on my HDTV while introducing minimal lag.
GayForMaster
Banned
I wouldn't know but there's a device out there called the crystalis dvdo or something (sorry for the name its probably wrong) but it costs like a grand. To get a good 480p upscalar you're gonna have to pretty much shell out the same or more than what you pay for a framemeister.
digita1alchemy
Member
$1,000 is a bit much, but I'm prepared to pay up to $400 or so for something good. Does anyone have any experience with the Optoma HD3000?
How do you get PS2 component to work with the XRGB mini? All I see are inputs for dterminal cables to get component.
A D-Terminal to Component adapter cable will cover you. You could also just grab a D-Terminal cable from Sony which will carry the same info/signal as component cables.
D-Terminal is the same exact thing as component, so there's no actual conversion taking place. Link:
http://solarisjapan.com/products/d-terminal-to-component-adapter-cable-female
Ah, didn't know there was a component to dterminal adapter, thanks for telling me this, and I want to order from solaris someday.
baphomet
Member
Yea I think I got a Sony component to dterminal cable for like $25 shipped.
I don't have any experience with any 480p upscalers either. That's what I'd like to purchase in the near future, but I'm fairly content with the xrgb minis 480p upscaling. I'd just check fudoh's site and see what he recommends.
I don't have any experience with any 480p upscalers either. That's what I'd like to purchase in the near future, but I'm fairly content with the xrgb minis 480p upscaling. I'd just check fudoh's site and see what he recommends.
I'm not very content with the way the Mini does 480p. What settings do you use?
MMaRsu
Banned
I'm trying to locate a VGA cable for my Dreamcast and a component cable for my old original Xbox. I'd be willing to pay quite a bit if necessary but it needs to be able to be shipped to The Netherlands. Whats my best option guys?
Thanks
.
Got myseld an old dreamcast with about 25 games and 2 controllers. Hella fun.
Thanks
.Got myseld an old dreamcast with about 25 games and 2 controllers. Hella fun.
Tried and it did not change anything. :/
I've tried some combinations with my Gamecube (don't know how well this will apply to PS2, though):
Game: Resident Evil Remake, 480i
I think my TV outputs the RGB signal pretty well. Composite seems to be the worst, although the HDMI processing/converting seems to take out some quality as component directly to my HDTV looks better than passing through HDMI.
My conclusion for PS2: IF an RGB cable for my PS2 performs likewise I guess I can keep my component cable for my HDTV as the results are similar. RGB would be needed If I decide to play on my SD CRT. However, the picture does look kind of worse than it actually is on my CRT. But generally the colors are indeed weaker (washed out) than on my HDTV.
I'm trying to locate a VGA cable for my Dreamcast and a component cable for my old original Xbox. I'd be willing to pay quite a bit if necessary but it needs to be able to be shipped to The Netherlands. Whats my best option guys?
Thanks
Got myseld an old dreamcast with about 25 games and 2 controllers. Hella fun.
As far as the DC are you looking for an original one for collection purposes? If not then there are modern high quality ones being produced today. Hanzo, Toro, and Kuro are VGA boxes being made by the same dudes that offer a lot of functionality. Heck they're more functional than the original boxes.
Friend of Sonic
Member
I concur. I love the Toro (if you need all of its features)
This makes me wonder: what is the most reliable method to accurately set the colour balance?
It took me over half an hour to calibrate my HDTV correctly. But every source has their own settings and I only did it for my HDMI sources. So every other source (RGB, Component) as shown might be well off the "right" colors. And of course these pictures were taken with my somewhat shitty phone camera. So regarding colors those pictures aren't sound.
I think the OP has explained how to setup your monitor/TV. This is what I used to calibrate my HDTV/HD monitors.
Just to piggyback on this, is there a "correct" color temperature for videogames?
Depends what your understanding of "correct" is because there is some personal taste. But for our eyes (and for perceiving light and colors in natural environments) warmer colors are more compatible and expedient. Furthermore the "cool" light of monitors, LEDs, etc. interferes with our biological sleep-wake rhythm because amongst others Dopamine levels (needed for "being tired") depend on light and are restrained. Warmer colors help with that, too. It takes some time until you get used to it. So for watching movies and playing videogames I'd recommend slightly warmer colors as your default setting of your TV. Especially with few environmental light and in dark rooms it is recommended to increase the color temperature. Since most users use default (=cool) temperatures, though, it is advised to switch back to cooler temperatures when working with pictures, drawings, printing, etc. everything color related.
BONKERS
Member
AFIK, game developers usually use calibrated setups (It's a must for really anyone working in the professional field of digital medi) and i'd assume this'd be calibrated for 6500k in sRGB(Modern games anyway). Though many I have seen/read take into account most people won't have calibrated set-ups... then it just gets confusing.
I usually go for 6500k on everything just because that's what I like/prefer/feel is the most accurate. I even use bias lighting with 6500k lighting. (Which ironically to most will look more blue than typical lighting)
StevieWhite
Member
The new elgato device works well enough if you are outputting HDMI through an upscaler.
My studio monitors are both capable of both common temps. So is 6500k simply more standard amongst people with calibrated displays?
I guess what I'm asking is, why are there two (or more?) temperatures in the first place?
One setting for the correct enthusiast setup under good or better lighting conditions at home. Other settings to catch the eye of unsuspecting idiots with bright neon colors under the brights lights in the elctronics store.
Hell yeah, they are awesome. It's such a time saver for me, I can switch from RGB to component, and put tons of composite sources into one, without having to change any cords.
Alright, it's been listed a few times now with no bites so I put a bid in at $49 NZD, hopefully I win it!
It doesn't seem to have big buttons like yours but with 16 inputs I think I can set up some combinations for component and rgb.
BONKERS
Member
^^^
This.
The brighter it is, the bluer it is. The more it catches your eye.
I'll quote from CNET
http://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-tv-color-temperature-and-why-does-it-matter/
I've always hated LCD's for this reason. They aren't warm-looking.
How would you switch between the inputs than?
Just read up on the manual and you should be fine. That's what helped me out.
There's 16 buttons on there. It's called a composite switch but the seller said you can do component by selecting multiple inputs, so I'll do that for RGB too.
Trying to find a manual now. Probably won't arrive til after Christmas though so I can take my time.
Oh I see. I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out. It's a really big convenience for me, these switches are great.
- Status