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shinobi602
(08-05-2013, 03:28 PM)
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"If you understand the technology and you understand the human mind, you can predict the future. You can tell what is going to happen."

According to Schell, this is at the root of Microsoft's mistakes with the Xbox One. It understood the needs of its partners, and its own needs as a business, but it badly misjudged the psychology of its customers. It is the classic innovator's dilemma: the market will change, and the customer will respond positively to that change, but the customer won't necessarily allow the current leader to be the one to make that change happen.

"Your customers want you to stay the same, even if it drives you into the ground," Schell says. "Somehow, Microsoft didn't seem to think that would be a reality, or even a problem.

"The reality is that they can't do what the customers want. Basically, Microsoft said, 'We're going to be Steam. You like Steam, don't you?' And we all said, 'No, we hate that. We hate you. You're an idiot to do that.'

"There's one mistake that they all make, and that mistake is listening to their customers."

But that's precisely what Microsoft has done. In the last few weeks, it has altered or removed almost every feature of the Xbox One that truly distinguished it from both its competitors and the current generation of hardware. Microsoft wanted to demonstrate boldness in the face of a rapidly changing market, but it did too much, too soon and with too heavy a hand. The problem for Microsoft, Schell explains, is that while the subsequent outcry came from a relatively small section of the gaming audience, it is nevertheless impossible to ignore. Microsoft may prove to be correct about what a console needs to be in the digital world, but that's irrelevant when it comes to the psychology of the consumer.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'

"When you want to do something really different - the solution to the innovator's dilemma - you can't take your big brand and say it's going to be completely different. You need to set up something up on the side, and big companies are hesitant to do that. It's how Valve could do it [with Steam], because they had nothing before.

"I suspect that we're going to end up in that world. Are we going to end up there on these consoles? I don't know. It could be that some dark horse shows up. It could be that Apple shows up. It could be that somebody finds a better way."

VG247 via GI.Biz
cackhyena
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:29 PM)
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Time will tell.
John Dunbar
Banned
(08-05-2013, 03:29 PM)
just look at how well nintendo is doing.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(08-05-2013, 03:30 PM)
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Hindsight is always 20/20.
Silky
(08-05-2013, 03:30 PM)
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BUT IT WAS NOTHING LIKE STEAM

Like seriously. The way people describe Xbone's original system is like "Just like Steam" is a selling point or a buzzword. It's not. Steam's design and way of operationv is nice, but that's not what I want from a console. It has nice features that i want implemented in everything, but I don't want everything to be like Steam ffs.

Honestly if they kept the always online and reduced the price to $399, I'd buy it in the future
Last edited by Silky; 08-05-2013 at 03:34 PM.
KAL2006
Junior Member
(08-05-2013, 03:30 PM)
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Like Steam but with expensive games and also online.
Dio
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:30 PM)
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But they were never going to be like Steam. The point of Steam is that it has competitors who force it to have Steam Sales.

On a closed system console, there are no competitors. Thus, there will be no sales on that scale.

That's a terrible comparison.
Xer0
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:30 PM)
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Mmhmm, ok, interesting. I see where you're goi---

"STEAM!"

Oh. Well, nevermind.
JDSN
You must walk home naked, dragging behind you the Stone of Shame.
(08-05-2013, 03:31 PM)
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Is Microsoft forcing people to act like we missed on the greatest innovation of the century? Its not the first time I hear random people complaining about us missing something amazing due our closed-minded nature.
Nethaniah
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:31 PM)
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Who?
gngf123
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:32 PM)
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Basically, Microsoft said, 'We're going to be Steam. You like Steam, don't you?'

Oh goddamnit, not this again. It was absolutely nothing like Steam.
Spirit of Jazz
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by KAL2006

Like Steam but with expensive games and also online.

Also you need to pay to play online, exactly like Steam!
Xer0
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by JDSN

Is Microsoft forcing people to act like we missed on the greatest innovation of the century? Its not the first time I hear random people complaining about us missing something amazing due our closed-minded nature.

"so, congratulations internet? i guess?"
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
(08-05-2013, 03:33 PM)
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I'd like to see what would have happened had MS not 180'd.

Would we then have articles saying "SONY STUCK IN THE PAST!" or "MICROSOFT SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO THEIR COSTOMERS!"
Dorrin
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:33 PM)
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Witch hunt!
OneEightZero
aka ThreeOneFour
(08-05-2013, 03:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dio

But they were never going to be like Steam. The point of Steam is that it has competitors who force it to have Steam Sales.

On a closed system console, there are no competitors. Thus, there will be no sales on that scale.

That's a terrible comparison.

But Steam... with a box... or something... coming...
Sadist
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:34 PM)
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okay
Interfectum
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by gngf123

Oh goddamnit, not this again. It was absolutely nothing like Steam.

Besides the ability to sell your Xbox One game and the 24 hour check-in it was almost exactly like Steam.
harSon
(08-05-2013, 03:34 PM)
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I disagree with a lot in the article, but this quote is so fucking true: ""The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'"
JawzPause
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:34 PM)
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I actually agree. All these changes by MS is making them look like they don't have their shit together.
Slateboard
Junior Member
(08-05-2013, 03:34 PM)
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I felt it had potential and would've been great in the long-term. But I'm also one of those people who were unphased by all of the stuff people were angry about with the Xbox One.

It just seems like a terrible no-win scenario now as far as satisfying the hardcore fanbase.
Nethaniah
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Interfectum

Besides the ability to sell your Xbox One game and the 24 hour check-in it was almost exactly like Steam.

Steam makes you pay for online?
MormaPope
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:35 PM)
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The idea that Steam is like any Microsoft marketplace needs to be put into the toilet, flushed, and fucking plunged till it never surfaces again. "They both sell things" as a comparison is lazy at best and completely ignorant at worst.

Does the Xbone allow me to download mods and other things to change my game up? What about pricing? Server browsers? Community features such as specific forums and screenshots?
CambriaRising
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:35 PM)
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Yup guys, Corperate entitlement is now a thing.

Or is just more out in the open now.
statham
Banned
(08-05-2013, 03:35 PM)
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I agree, It was how they got that message out their that messed them up.
Silky
(08-05-2013, 03:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Interfectum

Besides the ability to sell your Xbox One game and the 24 hour check-in it was almost exactly like Steam.

Does Steam make you pay for online
Does steam require a mandatory component that's absolutely useless
we.are.the.armada
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:36 PM)
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Give me a break, it wasn't like Steam.
The Omega Man
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:36 PM)
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the future was to let only a handful of countries to play your new console, oh my gawd! Microsoft you so forward-thinking!
Also compairing it to Steam lol
Tybolt
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nethaniah

Who?

This!

I'm also not sure why the consumer has to be "blamed"? This article reeks of contempt towards the consumer market. Isn't the entire root concept of business to make product the consumer wants? When did this turn into an us-versus-them battlefield?
Ryuuga
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Interfectum

Besides the ability to sell your Xbox One game and the 24 hour check-in it was almost exactly like Steam.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=580529
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=580491
GhostSeed
(08-05-2013, 03:37 PM)
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I think MS changed its tune on the Xbox One because of poor pre-order numbers not consumer outcry.
danthefan
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:37 PM)
I don't think that article makes sense. There was basically no policy of the Xbox One that I felt benefited me at all.
diffusionx
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:37 PM)
He's right, customers don't like change until they do like it. That put Microsoft in their bind and has hurt them over and over. They have long been in the business of keeping things the same, it almost killed them in the mid-1990s when they didn't see the internets coming and it did kill them in the 2000s when they didn't see the iPod and iPhone coming. In 2000 they envisioned a future revolving around desktops using Internet Explorer on Windows forever.

The world is moving towards digital, people won't be using discs and looking at grody racks at GameStop forever. Of course, customers can't imagine this.
Freki
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Interfectum

Besides the ability to sell your Xbox One game and the 24 hour check-in it was almost exactly like Steam.

Is Steam the only digital store where you can buy games for PC? Steam is the way it is because of competition - especially when it comes to prices. That's one of the main differences as there will not be any competition on the Xbox One (or PS4 for that matter).
Interfectum
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Silky

Does Steam make you pay for online
Does steam require a mandatory component that's absolutely useless

This is talking about the distribution method, not PC vs console mentality. The way Microsoft wanted to sell you XB1 games (ie physical copies come with one use unlock code, exactly like a steamworks title) was completely inspired by Steam.
GrizzledGrump
Banned
(08-05-2013, 03:37 PM)
Faster horse, etc.

I'm glad MS did the 180. Screw the "partners". These "partners" cowardly stood silent as MS was taking the flak for all the DRM stuff. I'm pretty sure MS discussed their plans with them and received their blessing. But when all was said and done, corporations do what corporations do and that's avoid bad publicity at all costs.

If I didn't dislike physical copies of games, I would buy them all used just to screw these cowards.

MS wanted to stay silent on the issue until they could show consumers the benefits, but all of the leaks killed them and forced them to speak before they wanted to.
Xer0
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by JawzPause

I actually agree. All these changes by MS is making them look like they don't have their shit together.

Probably because MS doesn't have their shit together.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:37 PM)
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Ok I am convinced these industry people are too close to the forest to see the trees.
Into
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:38 PM)
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"When you want to do something really different - the solution to the innovator's dilemma - you can't take your big brand and say it's going to be completely different. You need to set up something up on the side, and big companies are hesitant to do that. It's how Valve could do it [with Steam], because they had nothing before."


To make their product different, and to "innovate" the solution was to offer DRM, limit used games, forced online 24 hour check and ram Kinect down peoples throats? These "innovative features" only are good for Microsoft, not the consumer.

That is like if i sold pizza where for toppings i scraped the asfalt outside my shop and put on old ass gum, hair, and garbage on to save money, and called myself a innovator, come get a slice of the new and really different Pizza della Vomit, i am revolutionizing the business. It totally benefits *me* but to great detriment to the customer

Microsoft should forever be grateful that people reacted as strongly as they did and i assume the pre orders were not setting the world on fire. The consumer saved them in the long run
Marvel
could never
(08-05-2013, 03:38 PM)
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I wouldn't say it was just a few hardcore gamers on the internet that were upset with what Microsoft tried to shove down our throats... the polls/pre-orders didn't lie.
MormaPope
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by statham

I agree, It was how they got that message out their that messed them up.

Their presentation sucked for everyone, their message sucked for a lot of people. You don't reverse policies and game plans based on botched presentations alone.
Diablo Rosso
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:38 PM)
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To quote a great man, 'fckn lool'.
shinobi602
(08-05-2013, 03:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by GhostSeed

I think MS changed its tune on the Xbox One because of poor pre-order numbers not consumer outcry.

That could be one in the same really...
Majanew
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:39 PM)
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Microsoft's big mistake was doing the dumb shit that they had to reverse their stance on. Online DRM and blocking people from selling/trading their games with anyone they wanted to... was a big mistake. Now, MS better wise up and allow Kinect to be unplugged.

Nothing MS can do about being weaker than PS4. Just have to hope they grab enough of the big spenders. They lost me.
Last edited by Majanew; 08-05-2013 at 03:43 PM.
UnluckyKate
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:39 PM)
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People are still comparing Xbox One to steam ? That was stupid 4 month ago, it's still so stupid god how can you pretend be in this industry and not understand it
godelsmetric
sputum-flecked apoplexy
(08-05-2013, 03:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by GhostSeed

I think MS changed its tune on the Xbox One because of poor pre-order numbers not consumer outcry.

Poor preorder numbers is consumer outcry.
Zushin
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:40 PM)
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This is so stupid. MS didn't innovate in anything. They weren't pushing anything revolutionary, they were just adding excessive restrictions for their own gain. And it's getting extremely tiring to see the comparisons to Steam. They are completely different and should be treated as such.
GrizzledGrump
Banned
(08-05-2013, 03:40 PM)

Originally Posted by Xer0

Probably because MS doesn't have their shit together.

I can't believe there are people out there that don't believe that a multi-billion dollar product was just slapped together at the last minute. That's not how these things work.

Almost everything is a moving target messaging and policy-wise until the damn thing ships.
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(08-05-2013, 03:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Interfectum

This is talking about the distribution method, not PC vs console mentality. The way Microsoft wanted to sell you XB1 games (ie physical copies come with one use unlock code, exactly like a steamworks title) was completely inspired by Steam.

The check-in policy was nothing like Steam, though; Steam's Offline Mode doesn't expire.
Spirit of Jazz
Member
(08-05-2013, 03:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by danthefan

I don't think that article makes sense. There was basically no policy of the Xbox One that I felt benefited me at all.

The writer attempts to explain it's all down to consumers regecting innovation whilst maintaining that said innovation was MS aping Steam. You can't copy a competitors model (which MS didn't even do, they just aped the less than desirable Steam elements) and then claim people hate them due to their innovation. The whole article makes no sense at all.

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