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Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun (PS4, cancelled) / Legacy of Kain: Nosgoth (PC, upcoming)

S

Savitar

Member
When it's said and done I'm not sure if this game getting cancelled was good or bad. Mainly because following up past installments would be a huge challenge and these days what changes would be be made to appeal to certain people might quite frankly screw things up. The main character doesn't exactly strike me as a great character, could be wrong since we don't got much to go on but his design isn't great.

In the end the game is one of those "might have been, could have been" but we'll never know situations.
 
B

BigDes

Member
Not a fan of purple Wolverine?

EDIT: I strongly suspect that any single player LoK game we see at this point will be a complete series reboot like Tomb Raider and I really don't want LoK to be Uncharted with swords
 
A

AniHawk

Member
Melchiah said:
[]http://i.imgur.com/o61qBlUl.jpg[/IMG]

Reminds me of:
[]http://i.imgur.com/ep4rcOm.jpg[/IMG]

Absolutely horrible character design, when compared to Soul Reaver.
Click to expand...

my first thoughts. maybe it was the deus ex team. or maybe they at least shared character designers.
 
2

2San

Member
While the MP idea is pretty dumb, canceling the singleplayer game isn't inherently a bad choice. The SP game could've been broken or just teribad. You don't just sink in more money, simply because you already put a lot of money in.
 
S

Savitar

Member
If they ever did reboot the franchise one neat little thing they can do is say it's a new time line/reality changed by Kain through his actions. Basically uses what came before and continues things while not having to tie things too greatly into what's already been done if there needs to be a "push" for a new start.
 
R

Rflagg

Member
Jac_Solar said:
People are only, or mainly interested in LoK because of the narrative, world, exploration, lore and universe interaction that is done through single player, right? How many existing LoK fans would buy a LoK multiplayer only game just because it's related to LoK?

Why would they potentially ruin or damage a beloved single player IP with a multiplayer only title, when that is so far removed from anything and everything that's related to the series itself?

Why couldn't they instead have made a brand new IP/universe for their Multiplayer game? They could have introduced people to a new IP/universe, and gauged general interest for a new series of single player and/or multiplayer games.
Click to expand...

I know the minute I read competitive multiplayer I lost all interest.

Once again Mama Robotnik does an amazing job with this stuff, but the subject is depressing.
 
S

Samir Sedlar

Member
I would have liked Dead Sun -probably- if it was a spin off, or a new title after we get another LoK title that ends Kain's story after defiance or something, but as this didn't happen, Dead Sun looks awful to me, especially the main character, heck Blood Omen 2 characters look better than him.

Yet it was so far in development, it is a shame that all those resources were lost, I hope we get a combat video, I really want to see what the combat was like out of curiosity.

As for Nosgoth the MP thing, I am not having high hopes, I am not much of a PC player or a MP player, so really this feels like it isn't for me at all, such a shame.
 
D

Doomshine

Member
Fucking hell, I want that single player game... if this multiplayer game ends up being some sort of test to see if the franchise is still popular, fuck you.
 
S

SparkTR

Member
Unreal Tournament style multiplayer sounds good, sucks about the SP game but it's just one more name on a long list of potentially great cancelled games.
 
N

NorthernAvengeR

Banned
At this point I had accepted that I would most likely never see another LoK. Seeing this just makes me sad. That character art looks really uninspired and just... bad. It's like the scene in Alien. "Kill meee."
 
Monkeythumbz

Monkeythumbz

Communications Manager, nDreams
Cisce said:
Claiming that Nosgoth compares most to Unreal Championship 2 has me seriously hyped for the game.
Click to expand...

SparkTR said:
Unreal Tournament style multiplayer sounds good, sucks about the SP game but it's just one more name on a long list of potentially great cancelled games.
Click to expand...
Hey everyone, just to keep your expectations in check, I merely mentioned Unreal Championship 2 as Nosgoth is more similar to that in terms of its gameplay than (a) previous Legacy of Kain games, (b) MMORPGs, (c) MOBAs or (d) RTS games (all of which had been the focus of speculation over on the Eidos forums).

I mean, I could have just as easily said Team Fortress 2, despite Nosgoth being in 3rd-person. The point is my intention was purely just to keep you from building up any false assumptions, which wouldn't do anyone any favours.

We'll be revealing fully comprehensive details about the game in due course - as Mama Robotnik said I'm very limited as to what I can tell you about the game right now. I know that having a shroud of secrecy over the game can be frustrating, but it's only a temporary situation and in the meantime we really appreciate whatever patience you can afford us while we knock our plans into shape.

Vae Victus!
 
N

Ninjaholic

Neo Member
What the fuck did I just read! They canceled a single player LoK game that was almost finished only to find out they are making a multi-player only game. Whoever is in charge of making these horrible decisions needs to be slapped.

All they really had to do was play with the main character design to be more on par with the bad ass-ness of Raziel and Kain.

I miss the series and absolutely loved Defiance which was the last LoK game I played.
 
K

KorrZ

Member
2San said:
Projects can't fail now? :x
Click to expand...

With how much they had already seemingly put into it, it must have been very poorly managed for them to wait so long to cancel it. How do you finish all of the voice work/mo cap before figuring out if your gameplay even works?
 
2

2San

Member
KorrZ said:
With how much they had already seemingly put into it, it must have been very poorly managed for them to wait so long to cancel it. How do you finish all of the voice work/mo cap before figuring out if your gameplay even works?
Click to expand...
Some developers get a lot of freedom or are sneaky little things. SE does seem to mismanage projects though.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
2San said:
Projects can't fail now? :x
Click to expand...

Where did I say that? When a project fails after having so much work put into it, fuck the guys that failed, yes. Or fuck the people that kep[t putting resources into a failing project. Or fuck the people that made it fail.

What do you think the only one correct reponse should be?
 
B

Bedlam

Member
That's a shame really. I would've loved another SP LoK game whereas I'm never going to touch an MMO. Also, it will probably fail miserably. Gold rush is over, there is no more room next to the bigshot MMOs out there.
 
P

prodystopian

Member
I missed the previous thread. Both are great. I really appreciate the work you put into these, MR.

Legacy of Kain has always been one of my favorite series. So disappointing about the cancelled games, but glad to at least know the IP isn't dead.
 
Monkeythumbz

Monkeythumbz

Communications Manager, nDreams
Bedlam said:
That's a shame really. I would've loved another SP LoK game whereas I'm never going to touch an MMO. Also, it will probably fail miserably. Gold rush is over, there is no more room next to the bigshot MMOs out there.
Click to expand...
Nosgoth is not an MMO.

/smh
 
Â

∀ Narayan

Member
Cisce said:
Claiming that Nosgoth compares most to Unreal Championship 2 has me seriously hyped for the game.
Click to expand...

Me, too.

I always thought it would be pretty cool if a Demon's Souls/Dark Souls type of game was based in Nosgoth. I could dig a multiplayer game with that kind of combat.
 
M

MiamiWesker

Member
I would rather buy the unfinished, broken, glitchy mess that must be that unfinished Kain game than that fucking abomination Unreal tournament shit.
 
K

King of the Potato People

Member
It's easy to say without playing it but the game's production looked terrific, the menus look sleek (the title videos remind me of Metroid Prime's title) and the environments looked beautiful. The game looked like it was going to channel the Spirit of... well Soul Reaver.
 
S

Savitar

Member
There is only one company and one company only I'd trust to make a real true proper Legacy of Kain game at this point.

I'll give you a hint who.

They make The Witcher.
 
Strife In a Teacup

Strife In a Teacup

Member
Finalizer said:
It's funny to think that, after hearing about games with tens of millions of dollars in budget, where sales exceeding 3 million are "disappointing", you even have scenarios like this where publishers have effectively tossed millions into a black hole with nothing to show for it.
Click to expand...

I think it's definitely this. After Square's "disappointing" Hitman/ Tomb Raider sales they realized this game wouldn't sell 5 million copies and canned it.

GillianSeed79 said:
Aren't they kind of running into the risk of a Shadow Run-style snaffu? It's cool that it's the game they want to make and a lot of people who played Shadow Run loved it, but I can't but help but think that a sp LOK game, regardless of quality, would sell better than a MP only, PC only game.
Click to expand...

And this. Not to say Nosgoth is going to suck but does anyone still play, let alone remember, that Lord of the Rings moba (that came out last December no less). Although I realize Nosgoth isn't a moba I don't see it doing particularly well regardless of quality.

Maybe they'll pull a rabbit out of their hat though, who knows.

It better be f2p if they hope of having any chance of it succeeding though.

I do admit the main character design is a bit meh, but they could always pull a Cole like Infamous 2.
 
T

theSlacker

Member
Savitar said:
There is only one company and one company only I'd trust to make a real true proper Legacy of Kain game at this point.

I'll give you a hint who.

They make The Witcher.
Click to expand...

I'd rather a different company. One that doesn't even make as good as games.

They make Uncharted.

They also have Amy Hennig.
 
G

GillianSeed79

Member
I wonder if Tomb Raider not living up to SE's insane sales expectations had anything to do with Dead Sun's cancellation. This would be the perfect time to release a new LoK game too with the launch of new consoles.
 
AquaticSquirrel

AquaticSquirrel

Member
Wow this series has so many cancelled games, it's like the management isn't sure what direction to take the series in.

As for this game obviously we don't know too much about it but I think it could have potential in the right hands. However they deemed to cancel it either because after all that work the game was not a quality product and Eidos didn't want to damage the brand or they thought they had a good game but the market realities of releasing a single player only high budget game in this day and age seemed too risky a proposition. We will probably never know the true answer, perhaps it is a combination of the two.

I think it's very easy to say "oh they cancelled the single player game we might want for the multiplayer game we know we don't?? fuck that!". But the multiplayer game is probably a hell of a lot cheaper to make and less risky to make a profit.

Having said that a multiplayer only LoK game....in the Legacy of Kain series: Famous for it's strong narrative and characterization reeks of executive meddling and throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks based on current popular trends. In other words my reaction to the news of "Nosgoth" is...

matrixnotlikethis.gif

Nobody asked for this multi game and it will likely bomb terribly but maybe someday we will get our single player quality LoK game.

Also thanks to Mama for the excellent and informative thread, as usual you are one of the best posters on GAF. On a side note you should not have abdicated your text-gif throne to sunhi, I think you two can co-exist!

Also although the character design is certainly not iconic in any way, am I the only one who thinks he doesn't look too bad overall? I mean we have seen far worse character designs this past generation.
 
J

Jac_Solar

Member
Melchiah said:
o61qBlUl.jpg


Reminds me of:
ep4rcOm.jpg


Absolutely horrible character design, when compared to Soul Reaver.
Click to expand...

Looks like a generic Nightcrawler design tossed in with some tribal and semi futuristic designs.
 
A

Archaix

Drunky McMurder
Melchiah said:
o61qBlUl.jpg


Reminds me of:
ep4rcOm.jpg


Absolutely horrible character design, when compared to Soul Reaver.
Click to expand...


Adam Jensen was exactly the thing I thought of when I saw the picture. Which is a pretty terrible first thought to have when talking about a Legacy of Kain game, but so is "Multiplayer only".

Oh well. Can we get a countdown on the announcement that the complete lack of interest in Nosgoth has been interpreted as a lack of interest in Legacy of Kain as a whole, and no further projects will be developed in the series?
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I already knew about the cancellation of Dead Sun and the "Nosgoth" online multiplayer garbage, but it's depressing to read it all over again, especially with these awful, awful facts:

While Nosgoth is unlike any other competitive online multiplayer game that I've played or am familiar with, the closest comparison is probably Unreal Championship 2.
[...]
Windows PC, but that may be expanded over time.
[...]
Right now, Nosgoth only supports mouse & keyboard.
Click to expand...

only supports mouse & keyboard
only supports mouse & keyboard

I now officially hate this game. Fuck you, Squeenix. Fuck you forever.

Hurf said:
Look, just give me Dark Souls set in the Legacy of Kain world with as much of the original writing and voice talent as possible and I'll buy it and all the DLC you can make.
Click to expand...
So much this. Brofist, man.

Bedlam said:
How about "no"?
Click to expand...
Why not? Amy Hennig is largely responsible for how awesome Legacy of Kain used to be (only behind Denis Dyack and Ken McKulloch, really). A Naughty Dog-developed Legacy of Kain would be tremendously awesome, but that's not going to happen since the IP doesn't belong to them. Still, ND > Squeenix.

Also, I don't get what is so tremendously bad about that Dead Sun character. Sure, he's kinda meh by Legacy of Kain standards (no one can touch Kain, not even Raziel), but I've seen much worse, and with the proper personality and voice acting he could be half-decent. I'd take an epic story-driven single-player quest with this guy as protagonist over some shitty PC online clickfest forever.
 
T

theSlacker

Member
Bedlam said:
How about "no"?
Click to expand...

Great response. Mind explaining your position?

Morrigan Targaryen said:
Why not? Amy Hennig is largely responsible for how awesome Legacy of Kain used to be (only behind Denis Dyack and Ken McKulloch, really). A Naughty Dog-developed Legacy of Kain would be tremendously awesome, but that's not going to happen since the IP doesn't belong to them. Still, ND > Squeenix.

Also, I don't get what is so tremendously bad about that Dead Sun character. Sure, he's kinda meh by Legacy of Kain standards (no one can touch Kain, not even Raziel), but I've seen much worse, and with the proper personality and voice acting he could be half-decent. I'd take an epic story-driven single-player quest with this guy as protagonist over some shitty PC online clickfest forever.
Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining it. The games have always been all about the dialog, writing, and then great voice acting. Most of them already had subpar gameplay that we put up with because the aforementioned things were so great.

Also, I agree with your second point as well. I find it odd that people are stressing over that instead of not knowing anything about the writing.
 
C

Can Crusher

Banned
Why multiplayer? Because money, that's what.

Legacy of Kain doesn't have the kind of world created thus far that would hint at a great multiplayer game at all. It's all about story telling.
 
J

Jac_Solar

Member
Morrigan Targaryen said:
I already knew about the cancellation of Dead Sun and the "Nosgoth" online multiplayer garbage, but it's depressing to read it all over again, especially with these awful, awful facts:



only supports mouse & keyboard
only supports mouse & keyboard

I now officially hate this game. Fuck you, Squeenix. Fuck you forever.


So much this. Brofist, man.


Why not? Amy Hennig is largely responsible for how awesome Legacy of Kain used to be (only behind Denis Dyack and Ken McKulloch, really). A Naughty Dog-developed Legacy of Kain would be tremendously awesome, but that's not going to happen since the IP doesn't belong to them. Still, ND > Squeenix.

Also, I don't get what is so tremendously bad about that Dead Sun character. Sure, he's kinda meh by Legacy of Kain standards (no one can touch Kain, not even Raziel), but I've seen much worse, and with the proper personality and voice acting he could be half-decent. I'd take an epic story-driven single-player quest with this guy as protagonist over some shitty PC online clickfest forever.
Click to expand...

Naughty Dog are great at polished, heavily scripted and cinematic, extremely linear games with bad/mediocre gameplay. They've given no indication that they'd be a better choice than any other developer for a Legacy of Kain project.

From what I've gathered on the subject, LoK needs to be more freeform, tell more of its story through dialogue, allow some exploration, environments needs to have lots of character and story, etc.
 
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