NeoGAF

Uugh sony blew it with performance.
Microsoft isn't even trying on the performance front.

But yeah gonna get both for the console exclusive and play the rest on gaming rig.

Originally Posted by PK_man

even if both consoles have similar performance, there's still the $100 difference.

xbone hundred more

I think this is the biggest hurdle for MS, not the power.

Originally Posted by Hoo-doo

In my eyes, it's just silly to think that PS4 versions will be "downgraded" because it might make Microsoft mad.
I mean, what self-respecting developer would purposefully gimp the experience of their new big game because one of the platform holders might get angry.

"No wait Bob, is that game running at 60 frames per second? That will not do! Limit the frames to 25, quickly!"
"Also, could you muddy up these textures a little, they look a little too crisp, see?"

If anything, Sony should help out and incentivise the fuck out of these devs to have them polish PS4 versions of games to a mirror sheen in favor of more marketing exposure and promotion deals.

It's not necessarily a developer choice if Microsoft goes to the publisher and works out a deal with them.

Originally Posted by Hoo-doo

In my eyes, it's just silly to think that PS4 versions will be "downgraded" because it might make Microsoft mad.
I mean, what self-respecting developer would purposefully gimp the experience of their new big game because one of the platform holders might get angry.

"No wait Bob, is that game running at 60 frames per second? That will not do! Limit the frames to 25, quickly!"
"Also, could you muddy up these textures a little, they look a little too crisp, see?"

If anything, Sony should help out and incentivise the fuck out of these devs to have them polish PS4 versions of games to a mirror sheen in favor of more marketing exposure and promotion deals.

you'd be better off spending time optimizing the versions for each system than spending time trying to get the PS4 version to run identically to the Xbone version. It makes no sense to expect this to happen and it makes less sense to want it to happen.

Only 30fps at 1080p? Ewww.

Loooove developer insights. Are there other recent ones out there I've missed? This is the most details I've seen so far. (edit: when it comes to PS4 vs. XB1)

That...technical fellowship.

Some of the quotes sound as if they were sourced from NeoGAF (or at least they were talking to the same people/devs), while others sound new.

In any case, it had struck me as a well balanced article before I reached the end and the "power of the cloud" quote. Maybe the author felt the need to end the article by pushing aside the "Xbox One is doomed!" vibe.

Originally Posted by EmptySpace

dat baked lighting and static time-of-day.

And fake reflections.

Originally Posted by Chobel

This stupid, yes this never happened before, but doesn't mean it will never happen.

Who said it could never happen? I just don't understand why people are assuming something will happen that has never happened.

It's the games, it's always been the games.

Originally Posted by Toki767

It's not necessarily a developer choice if Microsoft goes to the publisher and works out a deal with them.

the only deals MS will be making will be for exclusive DLC or content. it makes absolutely zero sense for them to pay a developer to attempt to try to make the PS4 version run the same as the Xbone version. they'd be much better off buying a timed exclusivity on DLC, or exclusive characters or whatever.

Originally Posted by PK_man

even if both consoles have similar performance, there's still the $100 difference.

xbone hundred more

They are the same price. Kinect is the extra 100 bones.

those comments about platform parity won't last long if the difference is that big. Big third parties will not want their titles being seen as significantly inferior to first party titles.

Why do they need parity anyway? Surely if you're an xbox one owner, all you care about is that your games look good - if it isn't possible to keep up with PS4, you either buy a PS4 or just play them on Xbox and be happy.

Seems odd. And if MS start pushing their weight around trying to enforce parity, that could backfire on them like the DRM stuff if word gets out - plus if they don't have the marketshare they may not have the leverage they need to enforce it anyway

It's been a bit frustrating as a PC gamer seeing loads of console games ported with sub-par textures, no FOV settings and the like, but if the PS4 is having its graphics settings gimped because of MS's decisions, that would be the equivalent of every console port on PC in the last generation being on the level of Dark Souls; 720p/30fps cap.

It's unfathomable; and if it happens then its a step backwards for gaming.

Originally Posted by Kun Aguero

Will Devs be stupid enough to gimp the PS4 versions, if the PS4 install base is Two or Three times that of the XBO?

It's not about stupidity, it's about burning bridges. Microsoft is a huge company in gaming and in many other fields. You really want to be on good terms with them, not to mention that they might also aggressively money hat devs for parity and more exclusives.

With the way Sony overhypes, I'm anxiously awaiting launch of these console. Without optimization and running that much better on PS4, I guess we can't use the launch game argument and just wait till later in consoles life to see the true powers.

Originally Posted by RibbedHero

Only 30fps at 1080p? Ewww.

Without optimization.

Anyway, if this is true I'm glad I chose the PS4 instead of the Xbone. They're going to have an even tougher time after the 180 debacle.

Originally Posted by EmptySpace

dat baked lighting and static time-of-day.

baked lighting? uh.........
No.

Those are pretty obviously dynamic shadow maps and and dynamic lights. The only lighting which in all likelihood is baked is the GI.

I can only see PS4 versions being dumbed down to match the Xbone version if the following happens:

1. The Xbone ends up outselling the PS4 by a wide margin and ends being the market leader.
2. MS pays third party publisher to dumb down the competitor's version

Unlike this gen, I can only see #2 happening.

Originally Posted by goomba

Because the most powerful console always has the best games and outsells the competition....Oh wait that never happens.

It could when the more powerful console is cheaper and is out the same time as the weaker console.

Remember 360 outsold PS3 for a long time, it became more often than not the lead platform and it's one on the reasons the 360 version of a game is often better than the PS3 version.

This time, both new platforms will be released at the same time and it seems PS4 will dominate the early sales. We likely see the opposite situation this gen.

One source even suggested that enforcing parity across consoles could become a political issue between platform holders, developers and publishers. They said that it could damage perceptions of a cross platform title, not to mention Xbox One, if the PS4 version shipped with an obviously superior resolution and framerate; better to “castrate” the PS4 version and release near-identical games to avoid ruffling any feathers.

Damn if that is true. I really thought this was consipiracy stuff fanboy drivel.

One source even suggested that enforcing parity across consoles could become a political issue between platform holders, developers and publishers. They said that it could damage perceptions of a cross platform title, not to mention Xbox One, if the PS4 version shipped with an obviously superior resolution and framerate; better to “castrate” the PS4 version and release near-identical games to avoid ruffling any feathers.

This claim was later countered by a contact at a different studio. “It would be totally fine for us to make one version prettier without any political difficulties but it usually doesn’t make financial sense,” they said, “unless it’s a very simple tweak.”

So something we have been talking about for months, Edges sources can't even agree on.

Man, Edge is on a mission. It's almost as if they are being paid by Sony.

Originally Posted by goomba

Because the most powerful console always has the best games and outsells the competition....Oh wait that never happens.

Ever heard of the SNES?

Glad I pre ordered a ps4..I was going to share with my friend who preordered a xbone but at this point it just feels like piling on.

Originally Posted by Dictator93

baked lighting? uh.........
No.

Those are pretty obviously dynamic shadow maps and and dynamic lights. The only lighting which in all likelihood is baked is the GI.

I think he's talking about Forza.

Originally Posted by Gillian Seed

They are the same price. Kinect is the extra 100 bones.

This is a very flawed way of thinking, and not how the general consumer will see it.

Originally Posted by goomba

Because the most powerful console always has the best games and outsells the competition....Oh wait that never happens.

Stop the machines, Wii U already won.

Originally Posted by Pyscho_Mantis

I think he's talking about Forza.

In which case.... yeah probably.

Originally Posted by goomba

Firstly where did i state which will sell more? I merely pointed out that history has never favored the most powerful console yet so many here are acting as if ps4's power is it's most important factor.

Secondly they are not equal in feature set, one comes with kinect.

History likes cheaper consoles and those consoles that have many games. PS2 was cheaper than Xbone and had massive catalog of games. Gamecube price was great but at that point it didn't even have fraction of PS2 catalog.

And here we are in 2013 where Wii U is selling like shit because it has the price but it doesn't have catalog of games already after a year (beside nintendo stuff) same as vita.

Originally Posted by mrklaw

those comments about platform parity won't last long if the difference is that big. Big third parties will not want their titles being seen as significantly inferior to first party titles.

Why do they need parity anyway? Surely if you're an xbox one owner, all you care about is that your games look good - if it isn't possible to keep up with PS4, you either buy a PS4 or just play them on Xbox and be happy.

Seems odd. And if MS start pushing their weight around trying to enforce parity, that could backfire on them like the DRM stuff if word gets out - plus if they don't have the marketshare they may not have the leverage they need to enforce it anyway

It's just some bizarre wish that people who are in with team Microsoft have gotten into their minds, or some bizarre paranoia that people in with team Sony are having nightmares about.

It's never happened before because it doesn't make any economic sense for MS to offer a developer such a deal, or for the developer to take it.

Originally Posted by yon61

Ever heard of the SNES?

Yes people still argue if it was more or less powerful than the Mega Drive (Genesis). It's CPU was much slower.

Originally Posted by DBT85

So something we have been talking about for months, Edges sources can't even agree on.

I don't know that they really countered each other that much. The second source just implied that they wouldn't go the extra mile to make one version look nicer unless it was super easy.

Originally Posted by Mihael Mello Keehl

Still have not seen any games or comparisons, and these consoles launch in 2 months.

I mean, do you really expect multiplat devs to show off a proper comparison and readily prove "by the way, this version is inferior, so sucks to be you lol," especially if performance is currently struggling as it is? I wouldn't ever expect to see a proper console comparison until the games are released and you get something like DF on the case. Until then, expect to see publishers keep feeding the public with PC bullshots to build up hype for their games.

Originally Posted by Gillian Seed

They are the same price. Kinect is the extra 100 bones.

I thought Kinect is almost half of the price, no? PS4 will be sold at loss, at least I think I heard it somewhere that it will. And that's without fancy Kinect tech.

I am willing to buy Xbox One only if there will be Kinect-less SKU and for less than 400USD/EUR. Won't touch it if MS will try to sell inferior hardware for the same price as PS4, if bare Xbone SKU will ever happen.

Originally Posted by Phoenix Fang

Man, Edge is on a mission. It's almost as if they are being paid by Sony.

WAT?

Sony just announced their own 3rd party dev assistance team. Was that just for Vita, since I remember their first game being Borderlands 2. If not, they could possible become TASK FORCE 4 that swoops in and saves crappy versions from parity.

Wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by Finalizer

I mean, do you really expect multiplat devs to show off a proper comparison and readily prove "by the way, this version is inferior, so sucks to be you lol," especially if performance is currently struggling as it is? I wouldn't ever expect to see a proper console comparison until the games are released and you get something like DF on the case. Until then, expect to see publishers keep feeding the public with PC bullshots to build up hype for their games.

devs wont but game sites will milk that controversy for all it is worth.

Originally Posted by SPE

Nope, they'll just send their top brass to GAF to claim with 'sums' and 'math' that the Xbone is in fact more powerful than the PS4 and everyone else - including your own eyes - is wrong.

You can do that pre launch, it's totally normal, even Nintendo did it with the Gamecube. When the thing is out and people can see the difference it's a totally different story.

They will need a clear message to sell the system on, and if it's easily disprovable it wont work. See Sonys attempts to claim a power advantage with the PS3, if you can't show it, it doesn't matter.

So their message can't be power, it can't be price, all they have right now is services and I think even they must realise they are a million miles away from the price point they'd need to be at to reach the people that care about that.


I think they'll have to re-engineer one way or another, either make it much cheaper to build or make it more capable without increasing the BOM.

Well yeah, Edge WOULD say that seeing as they're a second party Sony developer! jk

But yes, this is quite hard to believe... seeing as America has the greatest engineers in the world and all...

Originally Posted by Phoenix Fang

Man, Edge is on a mission. It's almost as if they are being paid by Sony.

Or, you know, reporting facts. Facts from actual 3rd party devs who are working on both platforms.

Originally Posted by Phoenix Fang

Man, Edge is on a mission. It's almost as if they are being paid by Sony.

They seem to be on a mission to report the facts regardless of who's feathers they ruffle.

Originally Posted by SatansReverence

"without optimisation for either console"

Of course the console with the greater raw power will do better without optimisation. That's why optimisation exists...

while this is definitely true, and the article is a bit misleading in that way, I think the single biggest bit of misinformation is at the end:

The difference between cross platform launch window games will be small, and improved graphics drivers plus the power of the cloud might yet tip the balance in Xbox One’s favour. Nonetheless, at launch, PS4 will be the more capable console.

lol

And now, dear soon to be new XB1 owners, please consider that even the PS4 is pretty weak compared to PCs and what PCs will be in 2-3 years. And then think again what you will get for your 500 bucks and if it's worth it. Vote with your wallets, people, really do it. If stationary consoles are not vastly superior in power to what tablets, smartphones or business notebooks can do in 2-3 years - why even bother?

Originally Posted by Derpcrawler

I thought Kinect is almost half of the price, no?

It apparently accounted for half of the research costs of the system, according to that Reddit Xbox One Dev (however reliable that source is). Research costs are, of course, factored into the retail price, but manufacturing costs might be lower than 50%. Nevertheless, I am sure that Kinect accounts for a non-trivial amount of the 499 bones.

Originally Posted by SenjutsuSage

I'll probably get crap for this, but when your publication does things like this, that doesn't exactly make you a trustworthy source for this kind of information.

edge has never been trustworthy. Its just on the same team as most people here now.

Originally Posted by Chobel

The difference is this much?

Shit, so does that mean Mr. Penello might win his GAF bet, but for all the wrong reasons?

Originally Posted by SenjutsuSage

I'll probably get crap for this, but when your publication does things like this, that doesn't exactly make you a trustworthy source for this kind of information.

Yep, cuz all the third party devs they talked to must be huge Sony fanboys.

Originally Posted by Gillian Seed

They are the same price. Kinect is the extra 100 bones.

LOL