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angular graphics
Banned
(09-24-2013, 11:05 AM)
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This all sounds.. familiar.

Originally Posted by Gabe Newell

I got involved in the gaming industry when I was working on Windows back in the old days of DOS extenders and config.sys hacked boot disks. I was the producer on the first three releases of Windows. It was common wisdom that it wasn't possible to write a good game in Windows because of, well, unnamed technical reasons. This was annoying, so I decided that we would find the most technically advanced PC game and port it to Windows to show that there wasn't any reason for games not to be Windows apps.

So around the time that Doom shareware came out, I installed it on a laptop and dragged it around everybody's office and said, 'Look, look what PC games can do! This is a lot better that your NES system or your Sega system', and decided to have some engineers work on porting Doom to Windows.

I called John Carmack and said, "Hey, we'll do this for free". And eventually it became the Doom port to Windows.

Originally Posted by Gabe Newell

But what was so shocking to me was that Windows was the second highest usage application in the U.S. The number one application was Doom, a shareware program that hadn't been created by any of the powerhouse software companies. It was a 12-person company in the suburbs of Texas that didn't even distribute through retail, it distributed through bulletin boards and other pre-Internet mechanisms. To me, that was a lightning bolt. Microsoft was hiring 500-people sales teams and this entire company was 12 people, yet it had created the most widely distributed software in the world. There was a sea change coming.

Originally Posted by Gabe Newell

The big problem that is holding back Linux is games. People don’t realize how critical games are in driving consumer purchasing behavior.

1) He was frustrated it was "common knowledge" you can't make a good game on Windows because of various technical reasons which made no sense to him. Nowadays he wants to kill the same misconception that exists for Linux.

2) He pleaded to work for free to change that misconception. SteamOS is a free, open platform.

3) He used an existing game as an example of what Windows should be able to run and how that is much better than what the consoles of the time were achieving. Now the plan is for AAA developers to announce Linux versions of their games that will demonstrate what a modern Linux PC can do.

4) He was surprised to see that a game was the #1 software people were using and then it was Windows. Now he believes if games will make it to Linux, the OS' usage will significantly increase.

Sources:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com...s-gabe-newell/
http://kotaku.com/5906588/seems-like...to-build-steam
http://web.archive.org/web/200403292...cles/valve.htm
http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valve...ws-8-and-more/
http://gmod.de/threads/24266-Gabe-Newell-Interview
jadedcynic
Banned
(09-24-2013, 11:09 AM)
But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.
the TMO
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.

Oh god, please.
Qassim
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.



What's horrific about that?
kami_sama
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.

That's why Vale ve are stepping up with their own Linux OS, more consumer friendly.

Originally Posted by ElTopo

I seriously doubt it's the lack of games that is holding Linux back. It's certainly part of the issue though.

Some people in the Linux community don't like having closed code, which most of games are. But a gaming focused Linux wouldn't have the same problems.
Valnen
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.

Oh you can, just only on games that are natively supported. And that list is not big enough. Anything natively supported on Ubuntu is more than user friendly enough. But in my case, when I tried using it, I ended up having to use google to solve far more problems than I care to talk about. For example, I run my PS3's sound through my PC's sound card. To get that working I had to google something and change a setting, and even then it was still messed up. Couldn't ever fix it. On Windows, it's pretty easy to set up line-in.
Last edited by Valnen; 09-24-2013 at 11:21 AM.
MrNyarlathotep
I find your lack of holistic synergy overviews disturbing
(09-24-2013, 11:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.

If the only reluctance to using Linux is UI related, that is a solveable problem.
Glass Rebel
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:21 AM)
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Big Picture mode is probably the best "controller" interface I've ever used so I really hope this takes off.
jadedcynic
Banned
(09-24-2013, 11:23 AM)

Originally Posted by Qassim



What's horrific about that?

Isn't that BPM? I'm talking about installing and setup linux

Originally Posted by kami_sama

That's why Valve are stepping up with their own Linux OS, more consumer friendly.

Some people in the Linux community don't like having closed code, which most of games are. But a gaming focused Linux wouldn't have the same problems.

DRM=Not consumer friendly

Originally Posted by Valnen

Oh you can, just only on games that are natively supported. And that list is not big enough.

So only indie games then? that's terrible.
angular graphics
Banned
(09-24-2013, 11:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

DRM=Not consumer friendly

Tell us more about that supposed DRM they are putting into the OS.
Valnen
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by angular graphics

Tell us more about that supposed DRM they are putting into the OS.

He's referring to Steam itself I'm assuming.

Originally Posted by jadedcynic

Isn't that BPM? I'm talking about installing and setup linux

Installing Linux isn't any harder than installing Windows. Good luck installing essentials like Flash though.
Last edited by Valnen; 09-24-2013 at 11:28 AM.
Qassim
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

Isn't that BPM? I'm talking about installing and setup linux

Linux is just a kernel. The UI and setup process can be anything for the OS using the Linux kernel.

What you're saying doesn't make sense.
Last edited by Qassim; 09-24-2013 at 11:30 AM.
Metal Gear?!
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:29 AM)
Metal Gear?!'s Avatar

Originally Posted by jadedcynic

But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.



Lots of people use Linux every day. You've probably used it and didn't even notice.
supersaw
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.

Have you tried using Ubuntu?

This is what the current desktop looks like. You can also customise things to your hearts content. At this point in the game it's only lack of game developer support that is holding it back.

http://www.ubuntu.com/tour/en
angular graphics
Banned
(09-24-2013, 11:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

He's referring to Steam itself I'm assuming.

But Steam has been available for months for Linux. If one is going to complain now that it is unwanted because it's DRM (which it isn't, it's a store) I thinks it's pretty damn late.
Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(09-24-2013, 11:33 AM)
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Wow, I had no idea Gabe was part of the whole porting Doom to Windows. That's awesome!
Vagabundo
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

Isn't that BPM? I'm talking about installing and setup linux

.

Installing and setting up Linux is as easy as Windows/OSX or even easier.

Installing software on Ubuntu is easier than Windows. Linux have has "App Stores" re repositories for a decade plus at this stage.

It is true there is a lot of choice out there and some of those are for more advanced users.
Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(09-24-2013, 11:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Metal Gear?!



Lots of people use Linux every day. You've probably used it and didn't even notice.

What is this graph? Source?

Also, which one is Linux? iPhone/Pad?
angular graphics
Banned
(09-24-2013, 11:37 AM)
angular graphics's Avatar

Originally Posted by Yoshichan

What is this graph? Source?

Also, which one is Linux? iPhone/Pad?

Android is Linux based.
jadedcynic
Banned
(09-24-2013, 11:37 AM)

Originally Posted by Yoshichan

Wow, I had no idea Gabe was part of the whole porting Doom to Windows. That's awesome!

Newel worked at MS for nearly 15 years which made him rich, that's right Gabe worked for the EVIL EMPIRE that is MS!
angular graphics
Banned
(09-24-2013, 11:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

Newel worked at MS for nearly 15 years which made him rich, that's right Gabe worked for the EVIL EMPIRE that is MS!

Their products were pretty damn awesome back then. Windows 95, Office, etc.
Vintage
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:42 AM)
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I'm hoping this will stay only as an os for living room devices (aka steambox) for streaming purposes, i would never give up Windows for Linux.
maniac-kun
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by Vintage

I'm hoping this will stay only as an os for living room devices (aka steambox) for streaming purposes, i would never give up Windows for Linux.

When all your games run on Linux at some point in the future why not?
Last edited by maniac-kun; 09-24-2013 at 11:50 AM.
InsertCredit
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by Metal Gear?!



Lots of people use Linux every day. You've probably used it and didn't even notice.

more like

stef t97
Junior Member
(09-24-2013, 11:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Metal Gear?!



Lots of people use Linux every day. You've probably used it and didn't even notice.

What even is this graph? I can't actually understand what its showing considering androids market share. Any one able to explain?
Shard
XBLAnnoyance
(09-24-2013, 11:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by maniac-kun

When all your games run on Linux at some point in the furture why not?

This will never happen.
angular graphics
Banned
(09-24-2013, 11:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shard

This will never happen.

Ok, I'll bookmark your post :P
Shard
XBLAnnoyance
(09-24-2013, 11:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by angular graphics

Ok, I'll bookmark your post :P

You do that.
jadedcynic
Banned
(09-24-2013, 11:53 AM)

Originally Posted by angular graphics

Tell us more about that supposed DRM they are putting into the OS.

So a OS that all your games and supposedly movies and music is tied to Valve's server which they can terminate at any time and ban you if you mess with their TOS?

An OS completely controlled by Valve? How is that any better then Microsoft's OS?
Valnen
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by angular graphics

Ok, I'll bookmark your post :P

Streaming doesn't count. I don't see my entire steam library getting native Linux support, ever. I will be VERY happy to be proven wrong.
Coldsun
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.

And Windows was a pain in the ass to use at a time too.
publicpwnerer
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by supersaw

Have you tried using Ubuntu?

This is what the current desktop looks like. You can also customise things to your hearts content. At this point in the game it's only lack of game developer support that is holding it back.

http://www.ubuntu.com/tour/en

I've only ever experienced Ubuntu, regarding Linux. I'm not particularly savvy, but with sweaty hands and a USB, I dual-booted my laptop many years ago. It was incredibly fun learning a new OS, and there's a lot of documentation online regarding how to do XYZ.

I only played around with it for a week or so, since gaming is a big deal for me...but yeah, very good experience, and hopefully it isn't too long before Linux is big enough for mainstream gaming. My only other concern is the many, many variations of Linux.
hellocld
Junior Member
(09-24-2013, 11:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.

It might also be worth mentioning that Linux is based off of UNIX, which is also what Mac OS X is, essentially. There are a fair number of issues people have with Apple/OS X, but having a horrific UI usually isn't one of them.
SparkTR
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

So a OS that all your games and supposedly movies and music is tied to Valve's server which they can terminate at any time and ban you if you mess with their TOS?

An OS completely controlled by Valve? How is that any better then Microsoft's OS?

You still get access to your bought content if you get banned. You can also install non-steam stuff on the machine.
Qassim
Member
(09-24-2013, 11:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

So a OS that all your games and supposedly movies and music is tied to Valve's server which they can terminate at any time and ban you if you mess with their TOS?

An OS completely controlled by Valve? How is that any better then Microsoft's OS?

Do you have a source for any of this? Gabe and Valve have indicated it'll be more open than you're suggesting.
MrNyarlathotep
I find your lack of holistic synergy overviews disturbing
(09-24-2013, 11:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shard

This will never happen.

Why never?
angular graphics
Banned
(09-24-2013, 12:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

So a OS that all your games and supposedly movies and music is tied to Valve's server which they can terminate at any time and ban you if you mess with their TOS?

An OS completely controlled by Valve? How is that any better then Microsoft's OS?

Are you serious? If you don't buy them from Valve's store, then your movies are not tied to "Valve's server".

You are arguing that since
1) Apple makes Mac OS and
2) iTunes sells songs
=>
3) every single song you have on your Mac is controlled by Apple.

wut?!?! How do you go from 1) and 2) to 3)??
BaBaRaRa
Junior Member
(09-24-2013, 12:02 PM)
The difference here is that windows had the userbase but was being held back through a misconception.

'Linux' (in this sense being a consumer OS rather than a kernel on an appliance) doesn't have the adoption rates in the first place to be held back by misconceptions about gaming.

And if steamOS is being built around steam it will be about as recognisable to regular desktop linux users as android is.

'ls -l /usr/games | wc -l' will be as pitiful as it always has been for the Linux elite. Stalman must be rolling in his grave...
Valnen
Member
(09-24-2013, 12:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by MrNyarlathotep

Why never?

Because that would require the games to get ports. How many developers do you think really care enough about their legacy titles to port everything to Linux? I guarantee you that you're never going to see native linux support for every single Steam game that exists, let alone games not on Steam like MMO's.
Last edited by Valnen; 09-24-2013 at 12:06 PM.
BY2K
Membero Americo
(09-24-2013, 12:05 PM)
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Wait, SteamOS is gonna be free!?
jadedcynic
Banned
(09-24-2013, 12:06 PM)

Originally Posted by angular graphics

Tell us more about that supposed DRM they are putting into the OS.

Originally Posted by angular graphics

Are you serious? If you don't buy them from Valve's store, then your movies are not tied to "Valve's server".

You are arguing that since
1) Apple makes Mac OS and
2) iTunes sells songs
=>
3) every single song you have on your Mac is controlled by Apple.

wut?!?! How do you go from 1) and 2) to 3)??

According to the OS announcement, Valve might start selling Music and Movies on their store, their store, their Server, their content.
valouris
Member
(09-24-2013, 12:07 PM)
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Wow it seems to me that people have very weird misconceptions about Linux, so much so that even the word turns them off. Game will have to change that too, I guess.
Bats
Junior Member
(09-24-2013, 12:09 PM)
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I'd say Gabe can do whatever he wants. Remember Android is based on Linux and imho the MIUI firmware by Xiaomi is miles better than iOS and other Android versions.

It may sound stupid but what I mean is that Gabe just has to throw money to make a better OS than Windows or Mac; and not only he has the money, but I trust his design choices (wich I'm sure in this project he will be making) to be far better than those of the competition.

And the rest is just waiting for him to conquer the world. Wich in time, I'm sure he'll manage to accomplish.
Shard
XBLAnnoyance
(09-24-2013, 12:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

Because that would require the games to get ports. How many developers do you think really care enough about their legacy titles to port everything to Linux? I guarantee you that you're never going to see native linux support for every single Steam game that exists, let alone games not on Steam like MMO's.

There is also that other elephant in the room called DirectX.
angular graphics
Banned
(09-24-2013, 12:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

According to the OS announcement, Valve might start selling Music and Movies on their store, their store, their Server, their content.

Great, how does that stop you from using Netflix if you don't like Steam for movies?

If tomorrow I release a linux app with DRM for eg Ubuntu, you are arguing that that very moment Ubuntu became an OS that uses DRM and can lock you from accessing your content.
Bats
Junior Member
(09-24-2013, 12:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shard

There is also that other elephant in the room called DirectX.

OpenGL is way ahead of DirectX wich still stands only because ME throws money pushing for it.

Guess what'll happen when someone throws more money and people the other direction...
MrNyarlathotep
I find your lack of holistic synergy overviews disturbing
(09-24-2013, 12:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

Because that would require the games to get ports

No it doesn't.

It requires a software solution.

Shadow of the colossus was never ported to the PC, yet I can play it on PC.
Monty Mole
Member
(09-24-2013, 12:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by jadedcynic

But Linux is a pain in the ass to use, you can't push to play games on a OS that's UI is horrific to use.

You really don't understand what Linux is, do you?
Valnen
Member
(09-24-2013, 12:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by MrNyarlathotep

No it doesn't.

It requires a software solution.

Shadow of the colossus was never ported to the PC, yet I can play it on PC.

Are you suggesting emulation or something else like WINE? Forcing games to run on Linux that aren't natively supported is not a good idea. It generally results in worse performance or various bugs.
Last edited by Valnen; 09-24-2013 at 12:19 PM.
blurredvision
Member
(09-24-2013, 12:13 PM)

Originally Posted by maniac-kun

When all your games run on Linux at some point in the future why not?

When all your games already run on Windows, why switch?

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