NeoGAF

Originally Posted by thetrin

Onoguchi understands English. I chat with him in English all the time.

We're super pumped about EF-12. Can't wait to put out the English veraion.

How feaisable is a PS4 release? obviously, characters that are based on existing IP wouldnt be allowed, but surely there could a way to buy the base engine and then download characters created by the community or even buy them as DLC.



In anycase, someone needs to port this guy over. One of the best original mugen characters ever made. RIP reuben kee.

Originally Posted by thetrin

Onoguchi understands English. I chat with him in English all the time.

We're super pumped about EF-12. Can't wait to put out the English veraion.

Well that explains why nearly all the dev stuff is in good English, then. :-)

Looks neat, has potential. I would go back to saltybet for sure. Haven't been back since I lost it all being drunk.

Are there any free programs that output 3D models that the engine can accept as input for (part of) a character?

It could be interesting to look into to learn something with a goal in mind for when this becomes available in english, but it's not an area I've looked into much, this could provide some focus.

"Are there any free programs that output 3D models that the engine can accept as input for (part of) a character?"


Define "output" 3d models.

Blender is a fully featured open source 3D modeling program with which you can create and animate models and it would seem that EF-12 accepts those, though I'm not sure (haven't read) if EF-12 prefers a specific format like .fbx or .dae or anything like that.


So yeah, Blender. There's a huge community for it and tons of resources for learning it.

The 3D mugen.....and I see people tinkering with it here.....WELP! *subscribes*

Oh god 3D mexibeams. But seriously, this has amazing potential. 3D Studio Max support would be nice.

Originally Posted by thetrin

Yeah, as far as documentation goes, we do want creators to wait until we have it in English. Most of the spreadsheet-related stuff is in English, but in the AI headers especially, Onoguchi actually changed a couple commands in the English version, as some were in Japanese (example: not reacting to a given action was denoted as "なし").

In regards to the 2D character stuff, you're right. Onoguchi is primarily a 3D fighting game guy, and he included the SF characters mostly to show the flexibility of an otherwise 3D engine. He has said, though, that if you're willing to wade through the code, you could probably bend EF-12 to your will in a fashion that even he hasn't done.

We're also going to be adding more characters to the base downloadable build of EF-12 as time goes on (many of the characters in the current build weren't in the initial Japanese release of the game). One thing we REALLY want to do is have an archive set up for creators to submit their own original creations. From there, we'll basically take the best ones and make them official EF-12 characters. Our hope is to progressively build the roster over time, and then perhaps even release free content packs with stages and characters made by the community (along with other players doing whatever insane stuff they want to do with EF-12).

Also, if you want to stream EF-12 right this second, feel free to. There's no hidden cost, there are no catches. Onoguchi, as he said to me, has a nice house, and a good job. He just wants people to love EF-12, create for it, and share it. Kinda makes you all warm and fuzzy inside, huh?



It comes down to creating an infrastructure to make downloading/uploading content easy. We're a small team, so we can't do it alone, but I wouldn't be against working with Sony to create an archive where you can upload characters/stages via PC, and then access that same archive through EF-12 on PS4.

Granted, that's way off in the future, if it ever happens. Right now, we want to concentrate on building the PC community (which really comes down to you guys, as well as others in the FGC).

Well Ill definitely be watching this. I loved M.U.G.E.N and it waw a shame nobody really realised its potential outside some good takes on existing I.P.


Hopefully you can have the LBP of fighters on your hands.

I guess it's cool this exists, but 3d fighters have never really appealed to me, so ill probably just stick with mugen.

unless this engine allows for 2.5d fighters and people start ripping every character model imaginable G-Mod style, THEN IM IN

Originally Posted by kai3345

I guess it's cool this exists, but 3d fighters have never really appealed to me, so ill probably just stick with mugen.

unless this engine allows for 2.5d fighters and people start ripping every character model imaginable G-Mod style, THEN IM IN

I'm pretty sure it's possible. This appears to be a 2.5D character.

The thing I like about having a 3D engine is that everything is more modular. You can mix and match things from different animations and swap in different models fairly quickly, whereas in a 2D engine adding anything required generating a bunch of new assets. You could get someone going with much less effort -- it'll probably look "off" in some way, but getting close to start with is a big win. I imagine the animation/move libary working like having the CAW modes from the old WWE games, but amped to high heaven. (Probably a fair bit more involved, but that's for the best.) I would love to see this in Steam with full Steam Workshop support.

However, after seeing what random Japanese people do with everything from MUGEN to Miku Miku Dance, I'm a bit scared... D:

Originally Posted by kai3345

I guess it's cool this exists, but 3d fighters have never really appealed to me, so ill probably just stick with mugen.

unless this engine allows for 2.5d fighters and people start ripping every character model imaginable G-Mod style, THEN IM IN

They already mentioned you can use the engine to make 2.5D style games. Hell, Heart from Arcana Heart is one of the test characters.

3D? Time to get all those 3D Marvel characters in there!
Then the Saiyans, and the Simpsons, and the Mortal Kombatants, and the...

Just FYI: we just got an email from SaltyBet.

Raise your salties!

Originally Posted by thetrin

Just FYI: we just got an email from SaltyBet.

Raise your salties!

ALWAYS BET ON SKULLOMANIA

Originally Posted by Mr. Pointy

ALWAYS BET ON SKULLOMANIA

clearly you have not thought of the salt that omega tom hanks would bring in a 3d fighting game......and maybe now well see ACTUAL balanced DBZ characters

What Salty has been proposing to us is some next level shit. Like, seriously. This is going to change Saltybets, and it's going to get people to get more into creating and sharing fighters.

Dude is a genius.

Originally Posted by thetrin

What Salty has been proposing to us is some next level shit. Like, seriously. This is going to change Saltybets, and it's going to get people to get more into creating and sharing fighters.

Dude is a genius.

This is going to be so awesome.

I always hoped something like this would come along. I hope some 2D gameplay elements are implemented at some point.

So I guess this means DOA vs VF is releasing sooner than expected? YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Originally Posted by Master Thespian

I always hoped something like this would come along. I hope some 2D gameplay elements are implemented at some point.

The beautiful thing about Onoguchi-san is that every time I ask him "Can EF-12 do this?" he answers "no, but I will add it".

EF-12 really is just his personal hobby. He recently added assist attacks, not because anyone asked him, but because he thought it would be cool. That's what he's all about.

Onoguchi is baller.

Originally Posted by thetrin

What Salty has been proposing to us is some next level shit. Like, seriously. This is going to change Saltybets, and it's going to get people to get more into creating and sharing fighters.

Dude is a genius.

oh my gooooooooooooooood

Originally Posted by thetrin

What Salty has been proposing to us is some next level shit. Like, seriously. This is going to change Saltybets, and it's going to get people to get more into creating and sharing fighters.

Speaking of the "getting more into creating and sharing fighters" bit - I have some borderline traumatic memories of the drama in the Mugen community from 2002 to 2007, and I wonder if the EF-12 team is aware of the sort of problems behind that - being around to proclaim and enforce their intent when needed should already come in quite handy (Mugen's probably for a long time was that the devs were absent, and some loud community voices enforced some twisted notions that contradicted Elecbyte themselves when it came to the ability of using other creations as learning references).


Basically, in Mugen you dealt with 3 major types of files: sprites, sound and code - the code files covered very different things, from collision boxes to constant character data and state definitions, but the engine used them directly - unlike the sprite and sound files (from which contant could still be extracted with the right tools), they didn't need to be compiled in any way, so everyone could see and copy-paste code if they wanted.

That was great when you wanted to learn how something was done, but it was also a double-edged sword, in the sense that it made it easier to copy-past whole functionalities from a character, or make a new one by simply adding or subtracting something from someone else's releases (which could mean a degradation or a refinement of an existing character), and a lot of drama came from this - sometimes from people just dying to go on a which hunt, regardless of the opinion or even awareness of the person whose work was being copied or used as a base/reference.

If SaltyBets had been a thing back there, bricks would have been shat, since money's being made off of people's Mugen work with no regards to quality or creator permission or awareness - things have calmed down a lot since, in no small part because at one point Elecbyte actually returned and subtly managed to shut down a remant of the old "inquisition" movement, putting things back into perspective.

If they want to get involved with this new project, fine, but I hope everyone involved has at least some awareness of the problems of the past and can think and implement things in a way to avoid or minimize them.


I don't know about the files required to make an EF-12 character, but I wonder if they require some kind of compilation process that would obfuscate the work put into them, or if they can be used as edited as-is - ideally, this would be optional to allow both the sharing of knowledge (I've seen some remarkable Mugen works which doubled as tutorials by chaking their code files) and the protection of one's effort from easy copies.

Maybe an idea for the future would be something like the hat-making for TF2 where user-generated content can be a profitable endeavor for its creators?
If so, you want to make sure that whomever comes up with CrowdPleaserCharacter doesn't get his efforts easily duplicated and tweaked by someone out to make CrowdPleaserCharacter+1 - but an equivalent to Mugen's Kung Fu Man character, which is provided for easy editing and learning is invaluable.


Also, I hope SaltyBet's ideas involve something along the lines of different character leagues and ways to assign new characters correctly to them, curb-stomp battles can be boring.


BTW, I don't know if the EF-12 team's checked what Mugen's capable of, but simply looking through Mugen's triggers and state controllers can be rather inspiring:
- http://elecbyte.com/mugendocs-11b1/sctrls.html
- http://elecbyte.com/mugendocs-11b1/trigger.html


Since this is 3D though, one thing comes to mind which I haven't seen in 3D fighters but could be relevant. or at least interesting: collision areas that would be vulnerable to throws/holds, but not strikes - namely for the sake of being able to grab a character by their clothes or hair, if those were long enough to be within reach at times.
It's the sort of thing that seems relevant for the more close-up nature of 3D fighters, but which none seems to use AFAIK...

Originally Posted by Huw_Dawson

You get your COLLADA file, feed it into a converter, and it pops out as a fmdl file which the game uses. Texture editing is as simple as swapping dds files. Move properties are contained in csv files.

Models, effects and 2d elements are converted. But you can swap stuff.

In any case, tonight I am going to attempt to port Luigi from SSBB to see how easy it is to perform a model swap. This effort will be streamed.

EDIT: Stream live: www.twitch.tv/fairlysadpanda

EDIT: Stream done. I've been trying to figure out the "deformer" thing on the EF-12 website. Any suggestions?

I can't help but I'm glad you're continuing to tinker with this. I caught some bits of your stream last night and it melted my brain. Keep fighting the good fight!

Sorry for the bit of a necro bump, but I just wanted to let everyone know that Salty Bet is doing an exhibition tournament with EF-12 this thursday at 6 pm PST. We're using original characters created by Onoguchi-san himself, but it's our way of showing off what EF-12 is capable of.

We're also going to be releasing the English version of EF-12 shortly after the exhibition on the 22nd, so if you're interested in creating characters, all the documentation will be available very very soon.

We're so pumped for this, and we can't wait to see what people think of the game.

oh wow

that sounds great

Originally Posted by thetrin

Sorry for the bit of a necro bump, but I just wanted to let everyone know that Salty Bet is doing an exhibition tournament with EF-12 this thursday at 6 pm PST. We're using original characters created by Onoguchi-san himself, but it's our way of showing off what EF-12 is capable of.

We're also going to be releasing the English version of EF-12 shortly after the exhibition on the 22nd, so if you're interested in creating characters, all the documentation will be available very very soon.

We're so pumped for this, and we can't wait to see what people think of the game.

Go make a thread for it mate! Will try to watch the stream if it isn't during my work period.

Originally Posted by Tizoc

Go make a thread for it mate! Will try to watch the stream if it isn't during my work period.

Work period... What about us folks from other time zones?... The problem with streams...
I hope someone youtubes that...

If you create a new thread, make sure to link to it from here.

Hey all,

Just wanted to let everyone know that EF-12 is now available as a free download in English on Playism: http://playism-games.com/games/ef12/

The "Creator's Edition" includes all the tutorial documentation in English, so even if you're a novice, you can get started on making characters.

It's also Pay What You Want, so if you feel it's worth it, you can donate.

The game is also on Greenlight, and we're hoping to get Workshop integration to make sharing characters easier: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=196830672

Originally Posted by Huw_Dawson

Okay, so here is my overall impressions of EF-12 so far:

THE GOOD

+ Easy to modify the numbers, from frame data through to damage and float heights.
+ No severe engine glitches or weirdness. Everything works like a generic 3D fighting game.
+ Very easy to clone and modify a character, and it looks to be easy to make palette swaps with different move properties etc.

THE BAD

- Japanese documentation.
- Maya, Softimage, Blender only for the GFX.
- Excel is required if you don't want to wade into the raw data.
- Stages are very rudimentary. No way of setting a limit on where characters can walk other than ring-out lines (no corners, walls.)
- As far as I can see, despite having SF-style movesets on two characters, most fundamental aspects of a 2D fighter are missing. Collision is governed by hit-spheres attached to bones rather than hitboxes. I can't see any way of setting up a move as being special cancellable, despite specials existing in the engine. The engine really only really supports basic 3D fighters.

Basically, if you're looking to make a Tekken 3 character, this is a great engine. But I was hoping for an engine that would work in a 2D plane and this doesn't appear to be it.

I've had my eye on this for months hoping to find some details on just this thing. Thanks for posting that. Its not what I was hoping to hear but I doubt it was what you were hoping to discover either. It looks as though there is some potential here, but not a quick and dirty way to run a 2d plane fighter with 3d characters as I had hoped for apparently.

Originally Posted by Huw_Dawson

In short, what Teknopathetic said.

In long: Looking at the SSBB Luigi model as an example - he's already modeled, textured and UV'd. What he'd need is rigging, animating, then compiling for the engine. After that, all someone would need to do would be to build a character from that.

The whole rigging and animating thing is difficult.

The exciting thing is that this means that all you really need to be able to do is animate and you can make loads of fighting game characters for this engine as there isn't any complex scripting.

It's just a shame that learning to animate a human well takes a long time. :P And, of course, you're limited to the capabilities of the engine, so you only really can make Tekken characters. :\

If you have around $60 or less to drop on a kinect there are plugins that allow you to use it with motionbuilder for mocap. Its a great way to get the rudimentary animations going so you dont have to do all the keyframe starter points and can just focus more on fine tuning or exaggerating the motions you captured.

Originally Posted by Huw_Dawson

- Maya, Softimage, Blender only for the GFX.

Is there no exporter for anything else?

Originally Posted by KDR_11k

Is there no exporter for anything else?

The English documentation includes instructions on how to export from 3DS Max.

Really looking forward to this engine. I get the feeling folks are gonna find ways to take this places.

Hey guys,

Examu, the makers of Arcana Heart, have given us permission to show off Aino Heart, an Arcana Heart character that was remade in EF-12. Here are some screens:

I can't wait to see what other developers do with the engine. So awesome.

I can't play FGs for shit, but I'd love to work on models for this. I'm not super great at Blender, but I'm assuming most Max skills are easily transferable.

There was a SaltyBet stream of this at one point, right? Anyone have an archive link or some videos from that? I'm pretty curious about this.

"I can't play FGs for shit, but I'd love to work on models for this. I'm not super great at Blender, but I'm assuming most Max skills are easily transferable."


Trin says the documentation has instructions for exporting from Max.

Originally Posted by thetrin

Hey guys,

Examu, the makers of Arcana Heart, have given us permission to show off Aino Heart, an Arcana Heart character that was remade in EF-12. Here are some screens:



I can't wait to see what other developers do with the engine. So awesome.

Gorgeous! This is going to be fun.

G-Man vs Princess Zelda, can't wait.

Originally Posted by thetrin

Hey guys,

Examu, the makers of Arcana Heart, have given us permission to show off Aino Heart, an Arcana Heart character that was remade in EF-12. Here are some screens:



I can't wait to see what other developers do with the engine. So awesome.

Very impressive.

Originally Posted by thetrin

It doesn't have the chat, but here's the archived raw stream: http://www.twitch.tv/saltybet/b/481936373

We had a really good time. Salty is a great dude to work with. It was very harrowing, as betting was broken right up until about 45 min before the EF-12 exhibition match was about to start. It was a little scary.

And, I hate to advertise, but please please please vote for this on Greenlight. We need all the help we can get.

Yup! This was newly created for the US release in fact. After meeting with a lot of foreigners during TGS, Onoguchi-san realized that 3DS Max support is a really important tentpole for EF-12's success in the western market.

Oh wow I really dig the speed shown by TK Montauk and then on the girl with spiked boxing gloves I saw the background replaced by a 2d image flash with a pause. Does this mean its possible to do a cutaway sort of cinematic before a special like in Arcana Heart 3? By this I mean you do a special, the characters freeze as the screen is covered by a cinematic 2d animation and then it cuts back to the super being done. If so that was one thing on my list of tools needed that I can check off right there.

Also I saw a match with a giant named Devilrex who didn't fit on screen. Is it possible to make the camera pan back to keep both characters fully on screen automatically in EF-12 yet or not?

Originally Posted by thetrin

Yup! This was newly created for the US release in fact. After meeting with a lot of foreigners during TGS, Onoguchi-san realized that 3DS Max support is a really important tentpole for EF-12's success in the western market.

Oh nice! Blender being free opens it up to lots of people, but I'd assume many people who have experience modelling are (probably) going to prefer the Max route.

Many thanks for Max support!

Originally Posted by shaowebb

Oh wow I really dig the speed shown by TK Montauk and then on the girl with spiked boxing gloves I saw the background replaced by a 2d image flash with a pause. Does this mean its possible to do a cutaway sort of cinematic before a special like in Arcana Heart 3? By this I mean you do a special, the characters freeze as the screen is covered by a cinematic 2d animation and then it cuts back to the super being done. If so that was one thing on my list of tools needed that I can check off right there.

Also I saw a match with a giant named Devilrex who didn't fit on screen. Is it possible to make the camera pan back to keep both characters fully on screen automatically in EF-12 yet or not?

Originally Posted by thetrin

One the first point, it's definitely possible. There's a SF style demo character out of the box that has a shinkuu hadouken that has a pause and then a special background. I asked Onoguchi-san about the camera angle thing you asked me previously, and he said it might be possible to implement, but he's not quite sure how to proceed with it just yet.

In regards to the Devil Rex point, I'm pretty sure you'd have to set up a custom camera flag for that (don't quote me on that), but Devil Rex's appearance in Salty Bet was using the base config out of the box.

(Montauk is my favorite character so far. I wrecked house with him at TGS)
.

Thanks for this. I figured the custom camera flags to recreate the cinematic style ultras of SSF4 would be a bit trickier to implement for multiple reasons. Some even had multiple pauses as one would pause in animation, a camera would pan to someone else still moving and then the action would snap back in at a special angle or something. They looked pretty tricky so its definitely something that would take work to implement.

As for the Devil Rex thing I thought it had to be something like that as it was Salty bets just running characters through it. If you allowed larger cast in the engine I figured you'd have to allow cameras to pan back to fit them in the shot. Seemed like it was just the engine running on basic config and its cool to see this was what it looked like.

Any information on particle emitters and hit sparks we should know? Like can we use externally created animations for hit sparks, or particle emitters and then import them in or does EF-12 currently utilize in game tools to create those without the need for external asset creation?