The House could end the shutdown. They probably don't have the votes for the debt ceiling, though, do they?
The shutdown we can take, but a debt default we cannot. The latter is what I'm more worried about, and there's no obvious budging happening as of yet.
Ahhh, really sucks that Schweitzer isn't running. edit: He confirmed this in July? Had no clue. He was the ace in the hole Dems needed to defend against most certainly losing seats in states like WV.
smh
Holding the Senate could prove to be an uphill battle.
smh
Holding the Senate could prove to be an uphill battle.
Last edited by Diablos; 10-13-2013 at 07:47 PM.
If Boehner turned his caucus loose (lol), and told them to vote their consciences, the House would absolutely have the votes for the debt ceiling.Originally Posted by Snowman Prophet of Doom
The House could end the shutdown. They probably don't have the votes for the debt ceiling, though, do they?
The shutdown we can take, but a debt default we cannot. The latter is what I'm more worried about, and there's no obvious budging happening as of yet.
That's still a very silly reason to rally behind someone. Wouldn't it be better to vote for someone that has the right policies, and not for someone who doesn't with hopes that she will be pressured into having the right policies?Originally Posted by APKmetsfan
That's no what I'm saying. I'm saying political forces, the make up of congress, outside pressure, demographic changes will force her to be more progressive.
Typically the president is seen as the leader of the party, and the president gets to pick which areas for the party to focus its attention on. Congress has the power to say no, but it's a whole lot more difficult for them to start something than it is for the president, because they face the same roadblocks the president does except without the star power the president has.
Sure, but if the CR passed the House, there's nothing for the Senate to fight about. So Reid returns to the clean debt ceiling increase, GOP senators overwhelmingly vote for it, it goes to the House, and then Boehner holds the vote because the Senate already passed it and it goes through with mostly Democratic votes. I'm not saying this is how government should work, but it's how Boehner handled these problems in the past.Originally Posted by Snowman Prophet of Doom
The House could end the shutdown. They probably don't have the votes for the debt ceiling, though, do they?
The shutdown we can take, but a debt default we cannot. The latter is what I'm more worried about, and there's no obvious budging happening as of yet.
There are certainly twenty Republicans or so who understand that the debt ceiling must be raised.
Per robert costa, House r's think they are now winning the pr war..
@robertcostaNRO: This is a big story; House conservatives tell me it's a "game-changer," gives Right new momentum ahead of this week http://t.co/QRzlHrjOcf
Story is about reopening of wwii monument by veterans, etc
:lol
@robertcostaNRO: This is a big story; House conservatives tell me it's a "game-changer," gives Right new momentum ahead of this week http://t.co/QRzlHrjOcf
Story is about reopening of wwii monument by veterans, etc
:lol
HahahaOriginally Posted by Incognito
Per robert costa, House r's think they are now winning the pr war..
@robertcostaNRO: This is a big story; House conservatives tell me it's a "game-changer," gives Right new momentum ahead of this week http://t.co/QRzlHrjOcf
Story is about reopening of wwii monument by veterans, etc
:lol
I get some of these people (and some is probably charitable) are loco but remember at least some republicans have to be persuaded by either democrats or more moderate republicans for the system to change. I don't think mocking them is really going to achieve this in the long run. Political extremism is really quite terrifying in the US, but converts have to be won in the end.Originally Posted by APKmetsfan
These people
I don't think this is true at all. The evidence of the last few weeks, and indeed last few years, is that the most likely outcome is actually that the insane people will continue doing obviously insane things until they are completely marginalized. Pretending to engage them earnestly is just going to encourage them to be more insane. Nobody says we need to be friendly and persuade 9/11 truthers that it wasn't an inside job. We generally accept that those people are crazo and we rely on the weight of objective evidence and social pressure to conform to keep everybody from becoming a truther.Originally Posted by TheHeretic
I get some of these people (and some is probably charitable) are loco but remember at least some republicans have to be persuaded by either democrats or more moderate republicans for the system to change. I don't think mocking them is really going to achieve this in the long run. Political extremism is really quite terrifying in the US, but converts have to be won in the end.
He pointed out right wing media is focusing entirely on the story, and it's firing up the base. The problem is that this only impacts the base. The rest of the country doesn't care.Originally Posted by Incognito
Per robert costa, House r's think they are now winning the pr war..
@robertcostaNRO: This is a big story; House conservatives tell me it's a "game-changer," gives Right new momentum ahead of this week http://t.co/QRzlHrjOcf
Story is about reopening of wwii monument by veterans, etc
:lol
Ultimately this is just going to re-enforce a couple right wing narratives, after the cave: republicans lost because the media refused to report on the WWII memorial battle, and republicans would have won the PR battle if republicans didn't cave too soon. We'll be hearing this for years, just watch.
Originally Posted by Incognito
Per robert costa, House r's think they are now winning the pr war..
@robertcostaNRO: This is a big story; House conservatives tell me it's a "game-changer," gives Right new momentum ahead of this week http://t.co/QRzlHrjOcf
Story is about reopening of wwii monument by veterans, etc
:lol
oh for fuck's sakeRobert Costa @robertcostaNRO 6m
That's what I'm reporting: this vet/Palin/Cruz memorial protest story is going viral quickly on right, will shape House GOP scene on M & T
Even behaving like this the republicans can come close to 50% to the national vote. If they control any part of the Federal government this seems to be the result. The US is a very diverse country politically and culturally, people do want at least the pretence of getting along. It may look Obama look weak, but his engagement strategy is much better long term than the house republican strategy.I don't think this is true at all. The evidence of the last few weeks, and indeed last few years, is that the most likely outcome is actually that the insane people will continue doing obviously insane things until they are completely marginalized. Pretending to engage them earnestly is just going to encourage them to be more insane. Nobody says we need to be friendly and persuade 9/11 truthers that it wasn't an inside job. We generally accept that those people are crazo and we rely on the weight of objective evidence and social pressure to conform to keep everybody from becoming a truther.
That's about the size of it!Originally Posted by @thegarance
Today the onetime GOP VP nominee led a rally in support of shutting down the govt the people declined to elect her to run.
Hmm, so is there anything actually preventing Congress from passing the CR that locks in sequester spending levels past December, and then changing it at some point soon by negotiating a budget? Or is it just a matter of Republicans refusing to budge on the sequester spending levels in the future if they're forced into "unconditional surrender" now?Because we can't pass a CR that goes past December without locking in the sequester. This is why the Collins plan died -- the CR was actually too LONG.
Wrong thread
So... Republicans are going to win the PR war by protesting and reopening something they were responsible for closing in the first place? Ouch... my head...Originally Posted by Incognito
Per robert costa, House r's think they are now winning the pr war..
@robertcostaNRO: This is a big story; House conservatives tell me it's a "game-changer," gives Right new momentum ahead of this week http://t.co/QRzlHrjOcf
Story is about reopening of wwii monument by veterans, etc
:lol
Yeah, I think the feeling is that Ryan has refused to negotiate on the budget this whole year to protect the sequester levels. If we extend the levels past January he'll just do the same thing. The Democrats want to stage a fight about lifting the sequester right before the next cuts go into place, which requires timing the CR to expire before the cuts happen. Yes, it's a forcing mechanism.Hmm, so is there anything actually preventing Congress from passing the CR that locks in sequester spending levels past December, and then changing it at some point soon by negotiating a budget? Or is it just a matter of Republicans refusing to budge on the sequester spending levels in the future if they're forced into "unconditional surrender" now?
So after Cruz got them into this mess with no plan what-so-ever, they think Cruz and Palin are what will turn it around? These people never learnOriginally Posted by Incognito
Per robert costa, House r's think they are now winning the pr war..
@robertcostaNRO: This is a big story; House conservatives tell me it's a "game-changer," gives Right new momentum ahead of this week http://t.co/QRzlHrjOcf
Story is about reopening of wwii monument by veterans, etc
:lol
Well they did try to pass a partial spending bill for the monuments, but that's still sickening they fight so hard for this of all things. Who the hell cares about a monument when there are sick and starving people out there?So... Republicans are going to win the PR war by protesting and reopening something they were responsible for closing in the first place? Ouch... my head...
It's not their fault - how could they have foreseen that war memorials run by the government would close would the government did?!So... Republicans are going to win the PR war by protesting and reopening something they were responsible for closing in the first place? Ouch... my head...
One of these flags is not like the others.
I'm saying politicians and their opinions matter less than people think.Originally Posted by thepotatoman
That's still a very silly reason to rally behind someone. Wouldn't it be better to vote for someone that has the right policies, and not for someone who doesn't with hopes that she will be pressured into having the right policies?
Typically the president is seen as the leader of the party, and the president gets to pick which areas for the party to focus its attention on. Congress has the power to say no, but it's a whole lot more difficult for them to start something than it is for the president, because they face the same roadblocks the president does except without the star power the president has.
I wish that were surprising.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWd9MsBIMAAR5AD.jpg:large
One of these flags is not like the others.
So... Republicans are going to win the PR war by protesting and reopening something they were responsible for closing in the first place? Ouch... my head...
Originally Posted by Officerrob
So after Cruz got them into this mess with no plan what-so-ever, they think Cruz and Palin are what will turn it around? These people never learn
I have no patience for the confederate flag. Flag should representative of a shameful period in US history, not a point of pride.
One of these flags is not like the others.
Sing Dixie, be proud of certain traditions but the confederacy shouldn't be a part of that.
Last edited by APKmetsfan; 10-13-2013 at 08:41 PM.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...he-quran-down/
"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.
Anti-Obama sentiments echoed throughout the crowd Sunday, with one protester yelling out "punk" to describe the president and one speaker saying Obama is not the president of "the" people but "his" people. Multiple signs read "Impeach Obama."
At least one vulgar sign could be seen, which was directed more toward Republicans. It read "You can't be a conservative and a p**sy too."
Last edited by APKmetsfan; 10-13-2013 at 08:37 PM.
So just for fun, I listened to some right-wing podcasts/radio.
Glenn Beck is fucking demagogue asshole. Crazy and racist. He had Louie Gohmert on and pushed for him becoming the next Texan senator.
Laura Inghram is mean-spirited and hard right . . . but at least she is not crazy. Well . . . at least not completely crazy. She at least admitted that the GOP's polling numbers were going down. She had Krauthammer on who said this shut-down was a bad idea . . . OK, so far so good. But they felt at as soon as we hit the debt-ceiling, things would turn-around and people would support the GOP. *face-palm*
Greg Gutfield is an unfunny idiot who is supposed to be a comedian.
Glenn Beck is fucking demagogue asshole. Crazy and racist. He had Louie Gohmert on and pushed for him becoming the next Texan senator.
Laura Inghram is mean-spirited and hard right . . . but at least she is not crazy. Well . . . at least not completely crazy. She at least admitted that the GOP's polling numbers were going down. She had Krauthammer on who said this shut-down was a bad idea . . . OK, so far so good. But they felt at as soon as we hit the debt-ceiling, things would turn-around and people would support the GOP. *face-palm*
Greg Gutfield is an unfunny idiot who is supposed to be a comedian.
Last edited by speculawyer; 10-13-2013 at 08:45 PM.
Man, what is wrong with Ted Cruz's face? He always has the same stupid look on his face.
Just imagine if Boehner had brought up the clean CR. Today Paul Ryan would be arguing for delaying the individual mandate because of Obamacare's terrible launch as part of a debt ceiling deal. The NYT article today on the healthcare.gov website failure would be the capper on two weeks of nonstop coverage of the flaws in the system. There'd probably be a segment on CNN which is just some guy trying every hour to buy insurance on camera. Bulbo would be openly posting in PoliGAF again.
Thank God Ted Cruz saved us from that horrible future. Now all the low-information voters are blaming the Republicans for taking down the Obamacare website and causing it to show "please wait" pages every time they try to use it.
Thank God Ted Cruz saved us from that horrible future. Now all the low-information voters are blaming the Republicans for taking down the Obamacare website and causing it to show "please wait" pages every time they try to use it.
We need to default and keep the government shut because...Palin and Cruz are protesting a monument closed because the GOP closed the government down.
Hate everything.
Hate everything.
Republican house members were at the same monument a few days ago doing the SAME thing, but all of a sudden it's different today and will turn things aroundOriginally Posted by sillymonkey321
We need to default and keep the government shut because...Palin and Cruz are protesting a monument closed because the GOP closed the government down.
Hate everything.
I really wonder what Obama thinks as he looks outside the window. Is it really worth fighting for, when you have imbeciles too stupid to realize that what you are fighting for is for their own good? A sizable number of imbeciles at that.
One of these flags is not like the others.
If Jesus magically came down at the gathering from heaven, took to the podium and said to everyone "My sheep, Obama is your true shepherd, so hither unto him for he is righteous", they will immediately try to crucify him again.
nvm
The far right's insular focus plays such a role in them failing. They're completely unable to appeal to anyone outside the bubble.
Fighting over WWII museums they shut down while the senate GOP prepares to fold. Brilliant.
Fighting over WWII museums they shut down while the senate GOP prepares to fold. Brilliant.
To the last page of the previous OT:
Just saw this yglesias tweet:Originally Posted by PhoenixPause
The far right's insular focus plays such a role in them failing. They're completely unable to appeal to anyone outside the bubble.
Fighting over WWII museums they shut down while the senate GOP prepares to fold. Brilliant.
Best part is, they actually seem to think it's working.1. Shutdown the government.
2. Complain that shutdown is bad for veterans.
3. …
4. Profit!
i would think at some point SOME ONE has to step back and say "if everyone tells us we are the best, how come we can't win?"Originally Posted by PhoenixPause
The far right's insular focus plays such a role in them failing. They're completely unable to appeal to anyone outside the bubble.
Fighting over WWII museums they shut down while the senate GOP prepares to fold. Brilliant.
Unfortunately i dont think thats going to happen until they are all but an insignificant piece of the government. Until they are the minority in the senate, house and lose the presidency they will continue to think its a messaging problem.
*Democrats have 60+ seats in the Senate and 250+ seats in the House*i would think at some point SOME ONE has to step back and say "if everyone tells us we are the best, how come we can't win?"
Unfortunately i dont think thats going to happen until they are all but an insignificant piece of the government. Until they are the minority in the senate, house and lose the presidency they will continue to think its a messaging problem.
WE'RE NOT CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH /TeaParty
Lots of people remark how he looks (and acts) just like Joseph McCarthy. Yeah, kinda:Man, what is wrong with Ted Cruz's face? He always has the same stupid look on his face.
I think Ted Cruz looks like the generic white man created by a character generator. He would be perfect for Mad Men.
That requires accepting reality. And that is just not what we are dealing with. We are dealing with people that think climate change is a hoax invented by scientists. They don't believe in evolution. The believe Obama was born in Kenya. They believe Obama has lots of members of the Muslim Brotherhood working in his administration.i would think at some point SOME ONE has to step back and say "if everyone tells us we are the best, how come we can't win?"
You can't reason your way out of a position you didn't reason you way into.
At best, we can hope independents and moderates to realize these people are crazy. But for 25 to 30% of the people . . . they are gone. There is no reason involved.
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