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Zippedpinhead
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(10-14-2013, 04:32 PM)
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Banning Neil Gaiman

ALAMOGORDO, N.M. (KRQE) - A determined mom has won in a fight with a New Mexico school district.

She was shocked when she saw what the local high school was forcing her teenage daughter to read, but now because of the uproar, the school district has changed its tune.

It's a book the Arizona Daily Star says is "seasoned with a very adult dose of horror."

"I cannot read this to you and put it on the news. It's too inappropriate. It's that bad," said Nancy Wilmott.

Wilmott has a sophomore daughter at Alamogordo High School where the explicit book "Neverwhere" by Neil Gaiman has been required reading material since 2004. On Thursday that changed.

"I trusted the school system. I trusted the school district to pick proper material, and this is not," said Wilmott.

Wilmott says she contacted school officials last week about the book's sexual innuendos and harsh language.

"I did state to the principal that this is rated-R material, and she can't get into a rated-R movie," Wilmott said.

She says the school administration gave her very little feedback.

"She said thank you. Have a nice day and click," Wilmott said.

According to Alamogordo High's principal, Wilmott's concerns did not go unnoticed.

In fact, they prompted the school district to review the book and as of Thursday "Neverwhere" has been taken off the shelves.

Wilmott is relieved but upset she had to take action to get the book off the required reading list.

"A parent can't read a 400-page-book to find out if it's appropriate," Wilmott said. "You rely on your school to do that for you."

Alamogordo school officials say this is the first complaint they've had about the book since they started using it in their curriculum in 2004.

It may have been a few years since I read Neverwhere, but I really do not remember any questionable content. When I first saw the article I thought "oh great American Gods controversy even before HBO's TV series." I really did not think that THIS would be the book being banned.

Another Banned books example, my grade school banned Goosebumps claiming "they are not healthy reading material" so most of the boys just stopped reading entirely. It was an incredibly short sighted decision that really impacted a number of their lives (not sure some of them ever read in school ever again). I could still read Piers Anthony and Stephen King though...

Brings me to an even bigger point, as a parent, I feel responsible for the media that my son takes in. That being said, I would NEVER think that getting a book banned was the correct course of action. Talking and understanding what interests your child and what your child has to read for school should be a mandatory requirement for high school parenting...
The Lamonster
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(10-14-2013, 04:34 PM)
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and now her daughter is a murdering sex addict drug user
Moral Panic
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(10-14-2013, 04:34 PM)
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I can't say she did the wrong thing (assuming what she says about the content is true). It's not really right to have objectionable material as required reading in High School.
sn00zer
(10-14-2013, 04:34 PM)
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Eh, there are such thing as age appropriate books for required reading, out right banning them from the school altogether is ridiculous though
andymcc
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(10-14-2013, 04:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moral Panic

It's not really right to have objectionable material as required reading in High School.

nice user name
Dave Inc.
is not a grungy orphan raised by wolves
(10-14-2013, 04:37 PM)
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Was there sex or something in Neverwhere? All I remember about it is some nerdy, unconfident guy has a crush on some strange and exciting woman with funny-colored hair that also happens to be magical, which seems to be a running theme in his books.

When Gaiman married Amanda Palmer I thought: "Finally, maybe now he'll stop writing books that amount to Suicide Girls fan-fiction with a self-insert."
CornBurrito
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(10-14-2013, 04:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moral Panic

I can't say she did the wrong thing (assuming what she says about the content is true). It's not really right to have objectionable material as required reading in High School.

I'm struggling to think of a book I read in High School that didn't have objectionable material. To Kill a Mockingbird had racism. The Scarlet Letter dealt with adultery. The Great Gatsby had some sex in it if I recall correctly. Also adultery.
Stet
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(10-14-2013, 04:38 PM)
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What kind of school teaches Neil Gaiman to begin with? Jesus.
Mesoian
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(10-14-2013, 04:38 PM)
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"A parent can't read a 400-page-book to find out if it's appropriate," Wilmott said. "You rely on your school to do that for you."

GET FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED! You lazy shit.

For reference, of Radcliff's top 100 novels of the 20th century, here are the ones that are banned or challenged.

1. The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald
2. The Catcher in the Rye, by J.D. Salinger
3. The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck
4. To Kill a Mockingbird, by Harper Lee
5. The Color Purple, by Alice Walker
6. Ulysses, by James Joyce
7. Beloved, by Toni Morrison
8. The Lord of the Flies, by William Golding
9. 1984, by George Orwell

11. Lolita, by Vladmir Nabokov
12. Of Mice and Men, by John Steinbeck

15. Catch-22, by Joseph Heller
16. Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley
17. Animal Farm, by George Orwell
18. The Sun Also Rises, by Ernest Hemingway
19. As I Lay Dying, by William Faulkner
20. A Farewell to Arms, by Ernest Hemingway

23. Their Eyes Were Watching God, by Zora Neale Hurston
24. Invisible Man, by Ralph Ellison
25. Song of Solomon, by Toni Morrison
26. Gone with the Wind, by Margaret Mitchell
27. Native Son, by Richard Wright
28. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, by Ken Kesey
29. Slaughterhouse-Five, by Kurt Vonnegut
30. For Whom the Bell Tolls, by Ernest Hemingway

33. The Call of the Wild, by Jack London

36. Go Tell it on the Mountain, by James Baldwin

38. All the King's Men, by Robert Penn Warren

40. The Lord of the Rings, by J.R.R. Tolkien

45. The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair

48. Lady Chatterley's Lover, by D.H. Lawrence
49. A Clockwork Orange, by Anthony Burgess
50. The Awakening, by Kate Chopin

53. In Cold Blood, by Truman Capote

55. The Satanic Verses, by Salman Rushdie

57. Sophie's Choice, by William Styron

64. Sons and Lovers, by D.H. Lawrence

66. Cat's Cradle, by Kurt Vonnegut
67. A Separate Peace, by John Knowles

73. Naked Lunch, by William S. Burroughs
74. Brideshead Revisited, by Evelyn Waugh
75. Women in Love, by D.H. Lawrence

80. The Naked and the Dead, by Norman Mailer

84. Tropic of Cancer, by Henry Miller

88. An American Tragedy, by Theodore Dreiser

97. Rabbit, Run, by John Updike

People are dumb.
Last edited by Mesoian; 10-14-2013 at 04:43 PM.
marrec
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(10-14-2013, 04:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moral Panic

I can't say she did the wrong thing (assuming what she says about the content is true). It's not really right to have objectionable material as required reading in High School.

What do you consider objectionable?
Dave Inc.
is not a grungy orphan raised by wolves
(10-14-2013, 04:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by CornBurrito

I'm struggling to think of a book I read in High School that didn't have objectionable material. To Kill a Mockingbird had racism. The Scarlet Letter dealt with adultery. The Great Gatsby had some sex in it if I recall correctly. Also adultery.

Those are literary classics, Neverwhere is young adult schlock. I don't understand how it ended up as required reading in a school to begin with.
Akahige
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(10-14-2013, 04:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dave Inc.

Was there sex or something in Neverwhere? All I remember about it is some nerdy, unconfident guy has a crush on some strange and exciting woman with funny-colored hair that also happens to be magical, which seems to be a running theme in his books.

When Gaiman married Amanda Palmer I thought: "Finally, maybe now he'll stop writing books that amount to Suicide Girls fan-fiction with a self-insert."

I think it had a few swear words but that's it.
Stet
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(10-14-2013, 04:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by marrec

What do you consider objectionable?

Poorly written.
andymcc
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(10-14-2013, 04:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dave Inc.

Those are literary classics

while that's true the content could just as easily be seen as objectionable.
hey_monkey
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(10-14-2013, 04:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by CornBurrito

I'm struggling to think of a book I read in High School that didn't have objectionable material. To Kill a Mockingbird had racism. The Scarlet Letter dealt with adultery. The Great Gatsby had some sex in it if I recall correctly. Also adultery.

See also Wuthering Heights, Of Mice and Men, The Outsiders... hell, I can't think of a book we read that didn't have something someone could call objectionable content.

It's literature, not porn.
kswiston
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(10-14-2013, 04:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by CornBurrito

I'm struggling to think of a book I read in High School that didn't have objectionable material. To Kill a Mockingbird had racism. The Scarlet Letter dealt with adultery. The Great Gatsby had some sex in it if I recall correctly. Also adultery.

Ya, they are all like that. Brave New World, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest, Catcher in the Rye, etc. I can't remember what I was assigned to read in Grade 9, but most of the Grade 10 and up books had some questionable content. Probably because the entire point of assigning those books is to challenge the adolescent reader.
joe2187
owns a house that doesn't even have piss-covered floors.
(10-14-2013, 04:42 PM)
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At first I thought this was about American Gods and the prostitute who eats men with her vagina.
Alx
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(10-14-2013, 04:42 PM)
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Neverwhere of all books ? I expected some crazy witchcraft accusation against the Graveyard Book or Coraline (which would have been almost as ridiculous). But banning Neverwhere is like banning the Grimm Tales. Woops, confused Neverwhere and Stardust. Anyway, still silly.
Last edited by Alx; 10-14-2013 at 04:44 PM.
CornBurrito
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(10-14-2013, 04:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dave Inc.

Those are literary classics, Neverwhere is young adult schlock. I don't understand how it ended up as required reading in a school to begin with.

He said required reading. Them being considered classics for arbitrary reasons doesn't make them not required reading, nor does it make their material non-objectionable.
Prophet Steve
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(10-14-2013, 04:43 PM)
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I sort of forgot I still have Neverwhere here that I need to read.
marrec
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(10-14-2013, 04:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stet

Poorly written.

I agree, lets ban Great Expectations.
ReiGun
They call me "Mr Soap"
(10-14-2013, 04:43 PM)
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There was a good amount of sex, language, and/or violence in my hs readings. I haven't read Neverwhere, but I can't imagine it's any worse than, say, Lord of the Flies or Huck Finn
Nils
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(10-14-2013, 04:44 PM)
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I'm sure Gaiman will love the free publicity.
GK86
Homeland Security Fail
(10-14-2013, 04:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mesoian

GET FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED! You lazy shit.

For reference, of Radcliff's top 100 novels of the 20th century, here are the ones that are banned or challenged.

1. The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald
2. The Catcher in the Rye, by J.D. Salinger
3. The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck
4. To Kill a Mockingbird, by Harper Lee
5. The Color Purple, by Alice Walker
6. Ulysses, by James Joyce
8. The Lord of the Flies, by William Golding
12. Of Mice and Men, by John Steinbeck

People are dumb.

How the fuck are those banned? Soft ass nation that we have become.
BakedSardine
Banned
(10-14-2013, 04:45 PM)
Read Prince of Tides in high school, which deals with rape - nothing much more adult than that.
Stet
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(10-14-2013, 04:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by marrec

I agree, lets ban Great Expectations.

Great Expectations is a challenging read at the very least. We don't have Fear Street or film novelizations on required reading lists for a reason.
FriedConsole
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(10-14-2013, 04:45 PM)
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I read all sorts of adult themed books in high school: A Catcher in the Rye, Scarlet Letter, Crucible, Tom Sawyer. Heck the Odessey and Shakespear has "adult" themes. What are they supposed to read? Profiles in Courage 100 times?

I only read one of his short stories and I was done. I found his prose to be terrible. Bad prose no read for me. I'll read another terrible story by Stephen King because his prose is always awesome.

Originally Posted by Dave Inc.

When Gaiman married Amanda Palmer I thought: "Finally, maybe now he'll stop writing books that amount to Suicide Girls fan-fiction with a self-insert."

ouch
CornBurrito
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(10-14-2013, 04:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by GK86

How the fuck are those banned? Soft ass nation that we have become.

Bbbbut Dave Inc. made it sound like literary classics aren't objectionable!!!
Hot Coldman
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(10-14-2013, 04:46 PM)
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"A parent can't read a 400-page-book to find out if it's appropriate," Wilmott said. "You rely on your school to do that for you."

ugh
kswiston
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(10-14-2013, 04:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by ReiGun

There was a good amount of sex, language, and/or violence in my hs readings. I haven't read Neverwhere, but I can't imagine it's any worse than, say, Lord of the Flies or Huck Finn

Neverwhere is a novel adaptation of a miniseries Gaiman wrote for BBC in the 90s. So we are talking TV level content at the core of the book.
Gentleman Jack
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(10-14-2013, 04:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moral Panic

I can't say she did the wrong thing (assuming what she says about the content is true). It's not really right to have objectionable material as required reading in High School.

Damn straight we can't have high schoolers reading words like 'fuck' and 'shit' with their delicate eyes now can we?
Dave Inc.
is not a grungy orphan raised by wolves
(10-14-2013, 04:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by CornBurrito

Bbbbut Dave Inc. made it sound like literary classics aren't objectionable!!!

Dave Inc. says a lot of things.

I mean to say that literary classics, even though they may have objectionable content, present it in an adult manner that teaches people about life (or whatever). Neverwhere is just fun fiction with cursing and magic.
Megalosaro
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(10-14-2013, 04:49 PM)
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People who go out of their way to get books banned from schools are the worst. I can't think of a single book that should be banned. Hell even 50 shades of Grey is acceptable with the right context
Pagusas
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(10-14-2013, 04:49 PM)
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I grew up in Alamogordo.

Fun facts about the area:

white sands is awesome. One of the more unique places you'll see in this world.

Home of the Atari ET burial grounds. (Not sure the exact location, but its supposedly right outside of town where they dumped them all.)

Trinity point isn't far (First nuclear live test)

F117's were based at Holloman AFB (air force base right next to town) saw them flying around all the time as a kid.

The town is poor as hell right now, cant even afford to paint its street lines (literally, the town looks awful at the moment)

The town is also the home of the church that made the news for burning the Harry Potter books.

Spent 6 years of my life there, as much as I dislike Illinois I'd rather be here then there (though the area in itself is beautiful, especially in the mountains)
Last edited by Pagusas; 10-14-2013 at 04:54 PM.
CornBurrito
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(10-14-2013, 04:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dave Inc.

Dave Inc. says a lot of things.

I mean to say that literary classics, even though they may have objectionable content, present it in an adult manner that teaches people about life (or whatever). Neverwhere is just fun fiction with cursing and magic.

So basically snobbery if why you think it is acceptable to ban one set of books but not the other.
Dave Inc.
is not a grungy orphan raised by wolves
(10-14-2013, 04:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by CornBurrito

So basically snobbery if why you think it is acceptable to ban one set of books but not the other.

Yes that's exactly what I mean okay great job awesome reading.

I'm not in support of banning any books, I'm also not in support of making nonsense modern fiction books required reading.
Wag
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(10-14-2013, 04:53 PM)
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I read Neverwhere quite a while back. I can't think of anything objectionable about it.
marrec
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(10-14-2013, 04:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pagusas

I grew up in Alamagordo.

I'm very sorry.

I grew up in Clovis (technically a small village 30 minutes from clovis), which is like a more liberal version of Alamagordo... though I'm not sure why.
Slayven
gimme some o dat God-crafted alabaster greatness
(10-14-2013, 04:53 PM)
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Thankfully the superior Anasazi Boys is still legal.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
(10-14-2013, 04:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stet

What kind of school teaches Neil Gaiman to begin with? Jesus.

I know, they should be teaching Clive Barker!
AndyD
aka andydumi
(10-14-2013, 04:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Akahige

I think it had a few swear words but that's it.

That's all I remember too.
Dave Inc.
is not a grungy orphan raised by wolves
(10-14-2013, 04:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Slayven

Thankfully the superior Anasazi Boys is still legal.

It's practically the same book as Neverwhere, which I read first. Boring loser gets involved in crazy magic rollercoaster, grows up as a result; also there is a girl there who is super awesome and does totally wild stuff!

Originally Posted by Karsius

By your post it seems that this book is some type of porn for book readers or something.

For some reason though, I highly doubt that's the case.

No it's just lame and really doesn't teach students anything. It's like making Harry Potter (but with curse words) required reading in school.
Onemic
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(10-14-2013, 04:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dave Inc.

Those are literary classics, Neverwhere is young adult schlock. I don't understand how it ended up as required reading in a school to begin with.

By your post it seems that this book is some type of porn for book readers or something.

For some reason though, I highly doubt that's the case.

Originally Posted by Dave Inc.

It's practically the same book as Neverwhere, which I read first. Boring loser gets involved in crazy magic rollercoaster, grows up as a result; also there is a girl there who is super awesome and does totally wild stuff!

so therefore it deserves to be banned?
marrec
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(10-14-2013, 04:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stet

Great Expectations is a challenging read at the very least. We don't have Fear Street or film novelizations on required reading lists for a reason.

I agree that Neverwhere isn't exactly a fantastic book but there are some onerous and awful classics that need to be taken off required reading lists too.
AlimNassor
Banned
(10-14-2013, 04:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dave Inc.

Yes that's exactly what I mean okay great job awesome reading.

I'm not in support of banning any books, I'm also not in support of making nonsense modern fiction books required reading.

Why should modern books be banned? Should we only learn about the past in School? I mean after alll the past was better. Kids should be reading James Joyce and watching classic movies rather then modern garbage.
Deified Data
(10-14-2013, 04:59 PM)
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Neverwhere seems like an odd choice for required reading. I like Gaiman but Neverwhere has always felt like his weakest to me.
Carcetti
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(10-14-2013, 04:59 PM)
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The magic words here are "adult can't read". The people who get moral panic over books are the hardly literate ones who struggle to get over the simplest stuff.
Count Dookkake
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(10-14-2013, 04:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moral Panic

I can't say she did the wrong thing (assuming what she says about the content is true). It's not really right to have objectionable material as required reading in High School.

Then we should ban history classes.
Dave Inc.
is not a grungy orphan raised by wolves
(10-14-2013, 05:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Karsius

so therefore it deserves to be banned?

Banned? No.
Put on the Required Reading List? Also no.

Originally Posted by AlimNassor

Why should modern books be banned? Should we only learn about the past in School? I mean after alll the past was better. Kids should be reading James Joyce and watching classic movies rather then modern garbage.

They shouldn't be banned. Who said they should be banned?
Carcetti
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(10-14-2013, 05:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dave Inc.

Banned? No.
Put on the Required Reading List? Also no.

They shouldn't be banned. Who said they should be banned?

'

Only books which don't raise any eyebrows or don't challenge any readers should be banned from a required reading list. Literature is supposed to make your world bigger, not smaller.

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