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Stripper13
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:08 AM)
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I have re-posted this from the COD/Infinity Ward thread regarding resolutions, leaks and all things secretive.

Please, lend me your ears for a minute GAF. What the fuck is going on in our hobby's landscape.

Seriously, at this point I couldn't give a toss about PS4 or XB1, COD or Battlefield, Kinect or No-Kinect etc. So please leave these arguments at the door. What I do care about is the treatment we're receiving as dedicated (dare I say hardcore) consumers - where we can't seem to obtain a shred of legitimately sourced information that isn't totally spun or filtered to the point of meaningless.

Obviously the Infinity Ward/COD-resolution thread was the kicker for me, but it has been an ever present issue that shows no signs of slowing. The whole XB1 release (and recent twitter ramblings of 'someone dropping the ball') has got me feeling two things.

1. Curiosity: What exactly is going on. Why is there an embargo, why is everyone so secretive, and what do Microsoft/Sony/whoever have planned to try and combat the inevitable backlash/negativity if it is at all as serious as some of the posts/rumours have suggested.

2. Angry: This whole situation is a glaring spotlight on the sorry state of journalism in this industry. The minute these rumours popped up - there should have been journalists from multiple sites working to uncover the truth and reveal or at least outline the issues/cause behind all of it. Instead we get non-answers, ambiguity and 'wait for it' shit from dick-less 'journalists'. This whole situation is frustrating because I have never felt more like we're being treated like a fucking 'consumer' to a bunch of marketers.

Microsoft shouldn't have anything to hide weeks before launch. Developers shouldn't be afraid or ambiguous on the state of their game weeks before launch. Gaming sites, blogs and journalists should not be afraid, incapable or otherwise compelled to keep quiet on anything that directly affects the end user. We are the fucking customers, paying good money to purchase products. We should be well informed and treated as intelligent humans who can make our own decisions based on the merit of a products value proposition and competitive distinction,

I get marketing (it's my career in fact!). I know that McDonald's should be allowed to spin positives where ever possible. Dress up the burgers to keep them looking delicious on the menu's, create special offers, competitions and new products to keep me interested. And certainly try to gloss over the fact that 95% of the menu is woeful in terms of dietary requirements. At the same time, I can check or ask about essentially every element of the product's, down to where they source shit through the supply chain if need be. I am well informed. I can choose to make a poor decision, and spend $10 on an unhealthy, addictive food.. but at least the information was available to me. And guess what, if I wasn't - there would be investigation/journalism and media coverage that would cause a shitstorm unlike any other - because you can't simply choose to hide important information.

I am not simply a marketer's wet dream - that is, a mid-20's, high disposable income, luxury-item purchasing, entertainment/tech enthusiast. I should be able to expect that a site like IGN, or Kotaku (or any of the other numerous sites) will be covering everything that pops up. Instead we have to rely on ex-editors, CBOAT and insiders to even RAISE an issue. Then it takes days of social media and outrage before we get a fucking PR-manicured non-answer from someone like Penello who wouldn't be able to say a negative word about the company even if we he wanted to. Where the fuck are the journalists in all of this? At press events reviewing games in controlled conditions, slapped with gag orders until pre-planned dates and restrictions on what they can reveal - knowing full well they could potentially miss out on the next COD event (read: clicks) if they speak before spoken to.

Honest to God, if it wasn't for CBOAT (and maybe even famousmortimer) I'd be fucking done with this industry right now.

Thoughts GAF?

tl;dr - journalism is dead.
LockonStratos
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:09 AM)
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All I want is my PS4 and Battlefield 4...
MC Safety
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:10 AM)
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Game fans make the game industry not fun.
Mushroomer25
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:10 AM)
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Well, this is in no way a complete fucking over-reaction.
Syfadious
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mushroomer25

Well, this is in no way a complete fucking over-reaction.

brandonh83
(10-27-2013, 06:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mushroomer25

Well, this is in no way a complete fucking over-reaction.

well he's right, it seems like we have to fight tooth and claw to get a legitimate fucking answer about things these days because they hold so much information back.
FluxWaveZ
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:12 AM)
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Good video games are still being made, so I guess I'm fine with it.

I agree that more transparency would be a good thing.
BruiserBear
Banned
(10-27-2013, 06:13 AM)
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There is very little actual "journalism" in the games industry. People only get access to games if they follow a very strict set of rules. That's how it works. This is not new.
chickdigger802
Banned
(10-27-2013, 06:13 AM)
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the industry is really getting too close to each other. And this could quite possibly be the last console gen ever. people are on edge like no one's business. It's a bit crazy, especially with this launch.

Every podcast i listen to seems to be 'I'm getting both consoles because its my job'. The hype train is hitting dead bodies every week until it completely stops.

Seriously, what was the last good news story for next gen stuff? Everything seems to be bad news.


If this cycle bombs, what will all these games press outlets do?. They all on the same boat.
SFGamer
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:14 AM)
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Don't pay attention to all the negative talk on internet forums? Look, there are two consoles coming out in November both with some great looking games. Whats not to like? If you truly like/love your hobby a gaming being 720 won't change your mind about the hobby.

Not to mention Nintendo has hit their stride with the 3DS the Wii U is coming along and PC gaming is fucking fantastic right now. What's not to like?
udiie
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:14 AM)
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The way people react to this is what makes me want to be done with it as a hobby. It's as if everyone hasn't heard of the word patience. We have plenty of time to cancel our pre-orders or wait for the systems to release before we decide on which one we get, rather than speculate like monkeys on what's going on. Give these people some time to work on what they put their life into (and maybe some respect), and we might get them being a little more open with what is going on.
Last edited by udiie; 10-27-2013 at 06:16 AM. Reason: grammar lol
GK86
Homeland Security Fail
(10-27-2013, 06:14 AM)
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I'm with you, OP. Reason I stopped paying attention of anything coming out of their mouths.
digoutyoursoul
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:14 AM)
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"We won't clarify anything that could affect your purchases but pay $499 anyway for a console and $60 each for the games, then visit our websites regularly and watch our videos, read our news and click on some ads. Thanks guys!"
Jack_AG
Banned
(10-27-2013, 06:15 AM)
Journalism is the new PR. Period. Its revolting, to say the least. We've come a long way from the days of holding the corporate entity accountable - now it is the entity that holds the journalists accountable and they have to follow the rules they are given lest be left out of the loop for good.

The cure? Every journalist slays their captor at once. The media goes rogue on them. Publishers, corporations, devs... They can't blacklist everyone.

Journalists need to stand up for the consumer, not the creator of consumed product. That's what they used to do.

They are all dead to me.
terrisus
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:15 AM)
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3D and Disc-based media

Things were much better when things were mostly 2D and cartridge-based.
AwShucks
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:15 AM)
You can get your information when the games release.
Infernal Monkey
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:15 AM)
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I like playing video games, they're pretty cool.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:15 AM)
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You're mad because you let this forum get to you. Step away from it or don't click those threads. Be happy in that ignorance and avoid tge console war/cycle transitions madness.
njean777
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:16 AM)
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We do not have any journalist that are brave enough to report the truth, kind of like the political landscape. People are scared to lose their jobs and security. I get it, I really do, but when you are classified as a journalist then you should actually want to do the job you are hired for. You will piss people off, get blacklisted, and be hated by corporations, but revealing the truth should be you number one priority. IF not, then you are an enthusiast and not a journalist.
BHK3
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:16 AM)
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I agree, I just brush off every rumor or any of that sort until a reputable person on this site confirms it. Served me well.

If anyone cares, go read that AMA ign did a little bit ago, if you still think there is journalism after reading that, I feel sorry for you. Whole thing is pointless because we get no answers, just vague run arounds or straight lies, waste of time.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:16 AM)
You're taking this ish way too seriously. It's just games.
Disco Batman
Banned
(10-27-2013, 06:16 AM)
Money.

And entitled gamers who think everything should just be given to them. And then throw tantrums when things don't go their way.
Sheroking
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:16 AM)
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Games "journalism" isn't a real thing because it's all "new" media; twitter, networks and blogs (or full of "advertising partnerships"). Publishers don't have to talk to them, provide them with review materials or advanced knowledge, so these writers have no choice but to create and maintain relationships to get those things. Break those confidences and risk losing access. That's why all the criticism comes after the fact from people with little to no actual access, like Angry Joe or Jim Sterling.

On the other hand, launch titles not being an optimal native resolutions is a pretty soft thing to throw such a hissy fit about, and I have a hard time taking gamers seriously when they do, so maybe we're getting the 'journalism' we deserve.
Yoda
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gamer @ Heart

You're mad because you let this forum get to you. Step away from it or don't click those threads. Be happy in that ignorance and avoid tge console war/cycle transitions madness.

Pretty sure his main grievance is with gaming "journalism" not with console fanbois.
Coolwhip
Banned
(10-27-2013, 06:17 AM)
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Are there any other industries where the press are basically handpuppets? Someone enlighten me.
animlboogy
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:17 AM)
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Ehhh... I'm with you. Something as simple as the resolution a game renders at should be accessible knowledge. They're taking your pre-order money yet they don't want to tell you what you're buying. It's bullshit. This matters, especially for users with huge TVs.
Rolf NB
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:17 AM)
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I am not aware of any journalist covering games, not now, not in the past ten years. All we have is games press. And that's purely a symptom of games marketing.
watership
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:17 AM)
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All in all, I hope there is are interesting games to play come next generation. Somehow i think resolutions, kinect, # of CUs, and fanboys won't prevent that. And once this is all over and people who care and fight and claim victory have had their say... there will still be games to play. By the end of November people will be playing games on two new consoles, with what appears to be, pretty good controllers.

I think that's a big plus. The industry will take care of itself.
NinjamicWZ
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:17 AM)
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Things are so secretive and spun that I have no idea what you're even talking about.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
(10-27-2013, 06:18 AM)
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Game companies have the press by the balls. The press plays nice, or they get fucked. Simple as that. Many of them doubtless have contractual obligations to not talk about such-and-such issue until a certain time as well. None of this is really new.
Jack_AG
Banned
(10-27-2013, 06:18 AM)

Originally Posted by Disco Batman

Money.

And entitled gamers who think everything should just be given to them. And then throw tantrums when things don't go their way.

I don't like throwing my money on things I can't research. "Entitled", my ass. Its my money. When YOU start buying my consoles and games for me, then I won't care. Until then - if an outlet wants to sell me a "surprise" box - they won't get my money.
GolazoDan
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by chickdigger802

Every podcast i listen to seems to be 'I'm getting both consoles because its my job'. The hype train is hitting dead bodies every week until it completely stops.

Eh, I just listened to an old episode of the Gamespot Hotspot before the PS3 launched and I believe it was Brad who was asked "Are you getting a PS3 at launch?" and he outright said no. Everyone was down on it. Costs too much, not worth it. After the initial hype comes the months of waiting, the hype dies down once people start asking questions, and I guarantee the hype will be back in force once consoles start shipping. It seems normal to me, basically.
BPoole
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:18 AM)
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I completely agree. The fact that there is all this secretive crap going on and misinformation/question dodging when we are less than a month away from release is not very comforting. Game "journalists" seem more like extensions of marketing firms than they are about providing actual information since that would be damaging to Sony/MS/Nintendo. Why can't we just ask a dev straight up "Is CoD/BF 720p on XBox One?" and just get a simple "yes/no, because blah blah blah". Instead, we just get a bunch of dodging and PR talk.
Prince Vultan
Banned
(10-27-2013, 06:19 AM)
Unsure what OP wants from me.
MoGamesXNA
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mushroomer25

Well, this is in no way a complete fucking over-reaction.

Not really. OP makes a legitimate point IMO. I'd like there to be more transparency in the industry.
watership
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jack_AG

I don't like throwing my money on things I can't research. "Entitled", my ass. Its my money. When YOU start buying my consoles and games for me, then I won't care. Until then - if an outlet wants to sell me a "surprise" box - they won't get my money.

What the fuck is a surprise box?
Inorigo
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:20 AM)
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inb4 lock

Originally Posted by MC Safety

Game fans make the game industry not fun.

Real talk
Possum
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:20 AM)
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op pls stop.
Concept17
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:20 AM)
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Information is money, and with the uprising of social media, every bit of information is that much more valuable as people can take something very small, and light the internet on fire with it.

If a company is withholding information, or constantly spinning, there is probably a very legitimate reason for it. (as in, they're not even sure yet, because it's not finished)
Stripper13
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by LockonStratos

All I want is my PS4 and Battlefield 4...

Right - me too.

However as a consumer who is dropping upwards of $460 dollars - don't you feel that you should be entitled (yes I hate the word too), to some detailed information.

Imagine this. Western Digital announce they're going to make a 50tb hard-drive.
They release some basic information. It's going to be fast, much faster than your old WD hard-drive. It's going to better in every way in fact. It will also have a much higher price tag.

They release 4 versions of it - every single one of them named the same. Let's say as a (thinly veiled) example that they're named:

Western Digital 50TB Harddrive PC edition
Western Digital 50TB Harddrive XB1 edition
Western Digital 50TB Harddrive PS4 edition
Western Digital 50TB Harddrive Wii U edition

They all cost the exact same amount - let's say. $60. You will also need to buy a new motherboard to utilise this new amazing hard-drive (let's say. motherboards range from $300-1000 and range in features). They all range in speed, networking/sharing capability, number of ports etc. etc. Some are clearly superior that others.

Now Western Digital just want to sell 10 million of these babies. They don't care how. They're going to make 10 million in across these 4 SKU's and push them out the door. Except, they don't want to tell you which is which. They want you to simply pick whichever is the most convenient for you and fuck-off until they're next hard-drive release.

You ask questions - so which one has the fastest transfer speed? Silence. You decide to ask the motherboard creators - do you know which one is the best? And you get a manicured response "I've seen them all running, and it's glorious". You ask the reviewers/journalists/website owners who cover all things hard-drives - do you know which is fastest? Sorry, can't say - too sensitive... wait for launch and you'll see.

The only way you can get any information about putting down your hard-earned money is to pray that some generous forum-goers put their career on the line to drop some hints (as much as they can divulge without revealing who they work for).

Please make your informed decision now.

It's fucking stupid.
/rant
Midou
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Coolwhip

Are there any other industries where the press are basically handpuppets? Someone enlighten me.

Well journalists get hate in general. Some industries don't really have what video games have, in order for this to be on a larger scale.
Dylan
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:22 AM)
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If we weren't on the internet 24/7, we wouldn't notice these things.

Honestly, what other product exists where fans demand to know everything before they are even on store shelves?

I think video game fans think they are entitled to every detail of a companies' business strategy, which they aren't. You still have the power to buy something or not, so wait until the product is actually released and then make your judgement call.
PlumCantaloupe
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:22 AM)
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This will always be a problem as long as video-game "news sites" income comes almost exclusively from video-game advertisement.

Honestly until the industry is taken seriously by unbiased media, its news will remain immature.
Possum
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Stripper13

Right - me too.

However as a consumer who is dropping upwards of $460 dollars - don't you feel that you should be entitled (yes I hate the word too), to some detailed information.

Imagine this. Western Digital announce they're going to make a 50tb hard-drive.
They release some basic information. It's going to be fast, much faster than your old WD hard-drive. It's going to better in every way in fact. It will also have a much higher price tag.

They release 4 versions of it - every single one of them named the same. Let's say as a (thinly veiled) example that they're named:

Western Digital 50TB Harddrive PC edition
Western Digital 50TB Harddrive XB1 edition
Western Digital 50TB Harddrive PS4 edition
Western Digital 50TB Harddrive Wii U edition

They all cost the exact same amount - let's say. $60. You will also need to buy a new motherboard to utilise this new amazing hard-drive (let's say. motherboards range from $300-1000 and range in features). They all range in speed, networking/sharing capability, number of ports etc. etc. Some are clearly superior that others.

Now Western Digital just want to sell 10 million of these babies. They don't care how. They're going to make 10 million in across these 4 SKU's and push them out the door. Except, they don't want to tell you which is which. They want you to simply pick whichever is the most convenient for you and fuck-off until they're next hard-drive release.

You ask questions - so which one has the fastest transfer speed? Silence. You decide to ask the motherboard creators - do you know which one is the best? And you get a manicured response "I've seen them all running, and it's glorious". You ask the reviewers/journalists/website owners who cover all things hard-drives - do you know which is fastest? Sorry, can't say - too sensitive... wait for launch and you'll see.

The only way you can get any information about putting down your hard-earned money is to pray that some generous forum-goers put their career on the line to drop some hints (as much as they can divulge without revealing who they work for).

Please make your informed decision now.

It's fucking stupid.
/rant

Hot damn! a 50TB HDD for $60?
Doctor Ninja
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:23 AM)
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Gaming websites are forced to to play by the publishers' rules unless they blacklist them, and if they blacklist them, they wen't be able to get review copies or get access to press conferences and thus that would put them in a huge disadvantage against other sites that adhered to the rules.

Also,gaming journalism lacks professionalism when it comes to actual content. Take sites like IGN where they focus a lot on being wacky more than giving actual insight because not only it's easier to do, but there is a huge audience for that kind of stuff. This won't improve unless we support article with actual insight on our industry.
boingball
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:23 AM)
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There is no journalism in gaming. If you want access to information you have to sign NDAs and those then prevent you from telling anything other than what the marketing departments allow you to.
Burning Vigor Attack
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:24 AM)
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I agree with you OP. Gaming journalism is a complete joke.
Racer1977
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:24 AM)
I hope journalists are looking in, and reassessing what their job role is, an extension of corporate PR, or standing up for consumers.
Dog Problems
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Stripper13

Thoughts GAF?

I played Game & Wario tonight and had a lot of fun with it. I'll definitely buy it if I end up getting a Wii U.
njean777
Member
(10-27-2013, 06:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dylan

If we weren't on the internet 24/7, we wouldn't notice these things.

Honestly, what other product exists where fans demand to know everything before they are even on store shelves?

I think video game fans think they are entitled to every detail of a companies' business strategy, which they aren't. You still have the power to buy something or not, so wait until the product is actually released and then make your judgement call.

Computers, cell phones, and some others. People want to know about things, it is human nature to be curious.

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