• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

Glorious Ownage
Member
(10-29-2013, 03:55 PM)
Glorious Ownage's Avatar
If the "blurriness" is a result of the software upscaler on the ps4 can't they make adjustments for that after the fact?
Toma
Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
(10-29-2013, 03:55 PM)
Toma's Avatar

Originally Posted by StuBurns

We really can't assume anything in that regard.

If they're happy with the PS4 version, but no the XBO version, it's possible that it's all hands on deck with XBO. Not to say that will be the case at all. Just that who really knows.

True, true. Just saying what I think is more likely to happen, which is just a vaguely random guess of course.
foxbeldin
Member
(10-29-2013, 03:55 PM)
foxbeldin's Avatar

Originally Posted by KKRT00

Thats so misleading.

What is misleading? Graphs are hard cold data and i took it from the op.
Perkel
Banned
(10-29-2013, 03:55 PM)

Originally Posted by Skeff

With AO I would not be surprised to see 30fps at times on XB1, It's already dipping to mid 30's.

Yeah AO is one of those things that is reaaaaly stressful on hardware. For my rig usualy it is 5-10fps alone depending on game geometry.

Also this really depend on quality of it. Good AO can reaaaaly be taxing for hardware meanwhile AO with small draw distance and shitty quality won't change that much.

Good AO in Skyrim via ENB is most of the time for my rig 5-10fps difference on average.
Skeff
Member
(10-29-2013, 03:55 PM)
Skeff's Avatar

Originally Posted by Wishmaster92

720p vs 900p too. I didn't expect it tbh.

I got laughed at 3 months ago for saying it, not many people did expect it.

Originally Posted by StuBurns

We really can't assume anything in that regard.

If they're happy with the PS4 version, but no the XBO version, it's possible that it's all hands on deck with XBO. Not to say that will be the case at all. Just that who really knows.

It's extremely unlikely people making the PS4 version would be re-assigned to the XB1 version because, they are not experienced in it, it would actually be slower as the experienced with XB1 coders would have to teach the PS4 guys.
Valnen
Member
(10-29-2013, 03:56 PM)
Valnen's Avatar

Originally Posted by CREMSteve

Up scaling is a moot point if everything is 1080p.

True, but you can't guarantee every game will be native 1080p on PS4 forever, which is why if Sony isn't going to mandate native 1080p resolution for games, they need a good hardware scaler.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
(10-29-2013, 03:56 PM)
tinfoilhatman's Avatar

Originally Posted by CREMSteve

Up scaling is a moot point if everything is 1080p.

Agreed but based on this and other news we'll have a fare share amount of sub 1080p games on PS4.......not cool especially if the scaler produces a sub par image.
mangochutney
Member
(10-29-2013, 03:56 PM)

Originally Posted by tinfoilhatman

Overall I like the PS4 shots slightly better but seriously tell me the PS4 has a quality hardware up scaler equivalent to the 360?

Upscalign on the PS3 was dreadful in comparison

It won't need one after the initial batch of sub-1080p getting-to-grips-with-the-system games are out of the way.

Isn't this the only sub 1080p game so far?
Monty Mole
Member
(10-29-2013, 03:57 PM)
Monty Mole's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kerub

To be fair, the frame rate is more balanced on Xbox One.

:D
shinra-bansho
Member
(10-29-2013, 03:57 PM)
shinra-bansho's Avatar

Originally Posted by Perkel

I see what you did there. But i think you botched your work

Crushed blacks and nice sharpen filter. I can't get aliasing since Killzone shots are 1080p with good AA..

I thought the crushed blacks were just due to the limited RGB so my "XB1 filter" was just reducing the color balance to 13-236 range and applying a shapen filter (this is in ImageJ other programs might have better filters).
Majanew
Banned
(10-29-2013, 03:58 PM)
Majanew's Avatar

Originally Posted by foxbeldin

To be fair, the PS4 version drops lower than the XB1 version when the smoke stack falls:





The PS4 version still has aliasing problems, too. Even with the blurry AA applied.
Night Angel
Member
(10-29-2013, 03:58 PM)
Night Angel's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lynn616

Cheat? If people like the X1 image better that is not a cheat or a trick.

Well, if a comparison is being made and one item has had a filter applied that is well known to look "better" to people who hate accurate color representation and image fidelity, that doesn't really set a level playing field, does it?
Maninthemirror
Banned
(10-29-2013, 03:58 PM)

Originally Posted by TheZink

Yeah. Im still torn a little. Ive got both systems ordered and want to cancel one and pick up the other later on. I really love the One TV stuff even though a lot dont. I really cant tell too much of a difference except the One looks a little clearer with more jagged edges. I really dont know what to do. Most of my friends are going One but I dont want to make a bad choice. Son of Mother! This is the only game I really wanted to pick up at launch.


Xbox one


Ps4


From the ign vid . The aliasing is due to the sharpening filter on x1 not a blurring filter on ps4. In fact ps4 looks more cinematic and x1 looks more cartoony
StuBurns
Banned
(10-29-2013, 03:58 PM)
StuBurns's Avatar

Originally Posted by Skeff

It's extremely unlikely people making the PS4 version would be re-assigned to the XB1 version because, they are not experienced in it, it would actually be slower as the experienced with XB1 coders would have to teach the PS4 guys.

Interesting. I know PS3 and 360 system programmers tend to specify, but I thought PS4 and XBO were close enough that developers wouldn't have specific teams anymore. If that's the case, then I guess it does make sense.
Backfoggen
Banned
(10-29-2013, 03:58 PM)
Backfoggen's Avatar

Originally Posted by foxbeldin

What is misleading? Graphs are hard cold data and i took it from the op.


Man get a load of this junk frame rate on PS4 that's embarrassing

both versions hold 60 pretty well at least in SP
tkalamba
Member
(10-29-2013, 03:59 PM)
tkalamba's Avatar

Originally Posted by Majanew

To be fair, the PS4 version drops lower than the XB1 version when the smoke stack falls:





The PS4 version still has aliasing problems, too. Even with the blurry AA applied.

and this is why the comparisons at this point are pointless. We likely don't even have the final retail versions for either console.
Respawn
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:00 PM)
Respawn's Avatar

Originally Posted by foxbeldin

Oh my
Papacheeks
Junior Member
(10-29-2013, 04:00 PM)
Papacheeks's Avatar

Originally Posted by TheZink

Yeah. Im still torn a little. Ive got both systems ordered and want to cancel one and pick up the other later on. I really love the One TV stuff even though a lot dont. I really cant tell too much of a difference except the One looks a little clearer with more jagged edges. I really dont know what to do. Most of my friends are going One but I dont want to make a bad choice. Son of Mother! This is the only game I really wanted to pick up at launch.

Are you basing your opinion on the Single player footage? Everyone is using the Multiplayer footage as a basis. Which according to Jack Frags is no comparison. Better frame rate on PS4 with the double the pixel density.

The single player stuff is, to me whatever, because it's within a controlled environment. Meaning certain effects and assets are used just for cinema tics, and linear levels. Much more controlled performance for both boxes. Where it matters is in a less controlled environment. Meaning people playing online exploiting the game. There are no predefined animations for characters, no timed explosions, and set pieces. The level's can get destroyed in real time by "Multiple" variables.

This is where frame rate and Image quality count. And this is where we see the PS4 version shine.
Dragon1893
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:01 PM)
Dragon1893's Avatar

Originally Posted by Skeff

With AO I would not be surprised to see 30fps at times on XB1, It's already dipping to mid 30's.

Unless there's further optimization to compensate, frame-rate will probably take a hit of 3-4 fps on average is my guess.
chris0701
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:01 PM)
chris0701's Avatar

Originally Posted by foxbeldin

[img]bbt8ewe.png[/img]

It isn't not same frame, dude. The explode in XO is more pronounced;lol
beast786
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:01 PM)
beast786's Avatar
I am really surprise how big the difference .

I assumed the difference wouldn't be linear to theoretical benchmark. So I assumed the difference would be less than 40% at max.

to see greater than 50% count in addition to AA and better frame rate is shocking to me.

Couple of facts after the first comparison thread.

1) developers aren't gimping the more powerful console for parity sake (at least dice didn't) kudos to them
2) The difference between next gen console will be much much bigger than any current gen platform differences
PhatSaqs
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:01 PM)

Originally Posted by Backfoggen


Man get a load of this junk frame rate on PS4 that's embarrassing

lol
CREMSteve
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:02 PM)
CREMSteve's Avatar

Originally Posted by tinfoilhatman

Agreed but based on this and other news we'll have a fare share amount of sub 1080p games on PS4.......not cool especially if the scaler produces a sub par image.

Outside of BF4, which games are not 1080p? I don't think I'm aware of any others...
ToD_
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:02 PM)
ToD_'s Avatar

Originally Posted by Glorious Ownage

If the "blurriness" is a result of the software upscaler on the ps4 can't they make adjustments for that after the fact?

It just uses FXAA and has been upscaled to 1600x900. The X1 version would look a lot "blurrier" if they didn't use sharpening. Please note, sharpening is not a desirable effect as it gives white halos to everything and looks artificial. The, what most people call blurry PS4 shots, are more natural looking.

The PS4 version in this particular comparison adheres to the normal video standards, and the X1 version is altered by DF's capture hardware. Objectively the PS4 version is better in regards to video quality here, but because of this alteration, many find the X1 to look more desirable.

I hope the sharpening isn't something the X1 does natively when upscaling <1080p resolutions.
andycapps
(10-29-2013, 04:02 PM)
andycapps's Avatar
I don't like whatever AA they're using for the PS4 version. Probably not something that would keep me from getting the game, but it looks like they smeared vaseline over everything. I assume that could also be an issue from the sub-1080p signal being upscaled to 1080p, but either way, not a fan of how blurry it looks. Fix this shit, Guerrilla!
foxbeldin
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:02 PM)
foxbeldin's Avatar

Originally Posted by chris0701

It isn't not same frame, dude. The explode in XO is more pronounced;lol

It's the curve not the frame that's of interest.
DirtyLarry
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:02 PM)
DirtyLarry's Avatar

Originally Posted by MikeE21286

Wait what....if resolution doesn't make visuals look better than I just...I don't know what we're talking about here.

Of course it makes it look better, especially in the real world on a 55" TV.

But on YouTube comparison videos? There is not a huge difference especially to those who do not know what they are looking for.

So again I say, the more important story is the fact one console has to significantly lower its resolution and rely on "tricks" to achieve a comparable image to the clearly more superior higher resolution.

there are plenty of people saying they do not see a difference, and some that even feel the sharpness of the one looks better, and my point was simply that is because there is much less going on behind the scenes, and on crappy YouTube compressed videos, sure, it is easy to say they look comparable, to some even identical, but that is clearly not the case.
potam
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:03 PM)
Can anyone give me a tl;dr on what we've learned, aside from 900p?
plagiarize
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:03 PM)
plagiarize's Avatar

Originally Posted by Backfoggen


Man get a load of this junk frame rate on PS4 that's embarrassing

both versions hold 60 pretty well at least in SP

and the framerate analysis gives the PS4 version a clear advantage overall.

but you know, whatever. facts.
TheZink
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:03 PM)
TheZink's Avatar

Originally Posted by Maninthemirror

Repeating for those who missed it

Originally Posted by Lynn616

Cheat? If people like the X1 image better that is not a cheat or a trick.

Originally Posted by Maninthemirror

Xbox one


Ps4


From the ign vid . The aliasing is due to the sharpening filter on x1 not a blurring filter on ps4. In fact ps4 looks more cinematic and x1 looks more cartoony

Thank you. I hadnít seen that. Definitely looks more realistic on the PS4. More subtle but believable.
Riky
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:04 PM)
Riky's Avatar
I've got a 50" Plasma Panny so I think the PS4 version will be the way to go for me, I wonder how much difference I would see on my Lounge Toshiba 37" 1366x768 LCD though.

Also has anyone found out if the voice control and body tracking are available on the PS4 camera yet?
Metalmurphy
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:04 PM)
Metalmurphy's Avatar

Originally Posted by KKRT00

Thats so misleading.

Why is it misleading? Watch the whole video, it's pretty consistent. No point in trying to pretend the X1 isn't performing worst even at a lower resolution.



That said, I'm impressed on how both versions manage to maintain 60fps most of the time.
BigJoeGrizzly
Junior Member
(10-29-2013, 04:04 PM)
BigJoeGrizzly's Avatar

Originally Posted by ElTorro

Look at the graph from DF. The biggest FPS delta is about 15 FPS with PS4 at 50FPS and XBO at 35FPS.

But even then, the Xbone version nicely recovered (as did the PS4 version when it occasionally dipped). You really only see the noticeable dips (based on the frame rate readings) during extremely intense scenes, and even then the Xbone at worst is in the mid 30s range, and quickly recovers to 60 fps or near it. I don't think most will have issues with the frame rates of either console version to be honest (especially since neither seems to ever dip below 30, which would be VERY noticeable).

Its a similar situation that used to happen to me when I built a gaming PC for BF3, and used either an HD 7970 GHz or GTX 680 (with an Intel Core i5 chip of course). Most of the time the game would be a consistent 60 fps, but in really intense scenes it could dip into the mid 30s, which was still pretty acceptable since it didn't happen often. Also good to know that a DICE dev acknowledged that the HBAO would be added to the Bone version (among other things?) in time for the release version.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:04 PM)
Coulomb_Barrier's Avatar
I think shit is going to explode again when DF or others do the Xbox One MP comparison against the PS4 version.

I think the framerate gap will be bigger in this case.
KKRT00
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:04 PM)
KKRT00's Avatar

Originally Posted by foxbeldin

What is misleading? Graphs are hard cold data and i took it from the op.

Its the only one moment in whole video with such a difference. There is also [as already pointed out] similar drop fps but in Xbone favor later in this same level. But generally through the whole video framerate hold up almost steady 60fps in combat and the difference between both version are max 2-4 fps.

So, Your shot is very misleading, because it doesnt show anything about real performance in SP campaign.

---
Respawn
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:04 PM)
Respawn's Avatar

Originally Posted by Majanew

To be fair, the PS4 version drops lower than the XB1 version when the smoke stack falls:





The PS4 version still has aliasing problems, too. Even with the blurry AA applied.

Damn that's also bad
velociraptor
Junior Member
(10-29-2013, 04:04 PM)
velociraptor's Avatar
Is it me or does BF4 on the PS4/XBO actually look beautiful? I expected this game to look like dog shit.
Pain
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:05 PM)

Originally Posted by beast786

I am really surprise how big the difference .

I assumed the difference wouldn't be linear to theoretical benchmark. So I assumed the difference would be less than 40% at max.

to see greater than 50% count in addition to AA and better frame rate is shocking to me.

Couple of facts after the first comparison thread.

1) developers aren't gimping the more powerful console for parity sake (at least dice didn't) kudos to them
2) The difference between next gen console will be much much bigger than any current gen platform differences

Its hard to ignore such a huge performance gap.

Argue about how which one looks a little bit better but the performance is clearly better on the PS4.
Dragon1893
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:05 PM)
Dragon1893's Avatar

Originally Posted by Majanew

To be fair, the PS4 version drops lower than the XB1 version when the smoke stack falls:


What matters is the average, which is clearly higher on PS4, though both versions perform reasonably well. The thing is, to achieve that (almost) parity in frame-rate, resolution had to be dropped significantly on the X1 and it will probably drop further when AO is implemented.
This pretty much dissipates all doubts regarding where the consoles stand in terms of comparative rendering power.
Skeff
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:05 PM)
Skeff's Avatar

Originally Posted by StuBurns

Interesting. I know PS3 and 360 system programmers tend to specify, but I thought PS4 and XBO were close enough that developers wouldn't have specific teams anymore. If that's the case, then I guess it does make sense.

It's more similar than 360/PS3 but it's still quite different, we know from the PS4 NFS article that when coding for PS4 you generally have to choose the right Bus for your data and that by working with the hardware they became more familiar with what data went were. With the XB1 it will likely be balancing the esram with the DDR3. Not to mention one is DirectX based and one is OpenGL based.
coldfoot
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:05 PM)

Originally Posted by foxbeldin

That graph shows far more than "2-4" fps that DF claims. It's more like 5-15fps
Uncle Ulty
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:05 PM)
Well now that we have hard facts, I feel confident and going forward with the PS4 and taking a wait and see approach on the Xbone. I am a graphics junkie though and will still game primarily on my PC when I can.
mitchman
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:06 PM)
mitchman's Avatar

Originally Posted by dark10x

Actually, Killzone runs similarly if not worse in MP. So, yes, they can still tout 60 fps multiplayer, but it is in no way stable. The "24 players dropping grenades" thing is BS.


I actually kind of am a semi-seasoned AV professional and have the gear and 10 years of experience to back that up. :)

Will you be updating the article to reflect what you have said in here about the test environment?
Crimson_Gold
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:06 PM)
Crimson_Gold's Avatar

Originally Posted by velociraptor

Is it me or does BF4 on the PS4/XBO actually look beautiful? I expected this game to look like dog shit.

That would be CoD: Ghosts
Bundy
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:06 PM)

Originally Posted by potam

Can anyone give me a tl;dr on what we've learned, aside from 900p?

PS4 is better at... everything. Better framerate, AA, etc. etc.

Originally Posted by beast786

I am really surprise how big the difference .

I assumed the difference wouldn't be linear to theoretical benchmark. So I assumed the difference would be less than 40% at max.

to see greater than 50% count in addition to AA and better frame rate is shocking to me.

Couple of facts after the first comparison thread.

1) developers aren't gimping the more powerful console for parity sake (at least dice didn't) kudos to them
2) The difference between next gen console will be much much bigger than any current gen platform differences

As we all have said in the last couple of months :)
Just some delusional fanboys couldn't admit it.
TheZink
Member
(10-29-2013, 04:06 PM)
TheZink's Avatar

Originally Posted by Maninthemirror

Xbox one


Ps4


From the ign vid . The aliasing is due to the sharpening filter on x1 not a blurring filter on ps4. In fact ps4 looks more cinematic and x1 looks more cartoony

Originally Posted by Papacheeks(GRPodcast)

Are you basing your opinion on the Single player footage? Everyone is using the Multiplayer footage as a basis. Which according to Jack Frags is no comparison. Better frame rate on PS4 with the double the pixel density.

The single player stuff is, to me whatever, because it's within a controlled environment. Meaning certain effects and assets are used just for cinema tics, and linear levels. Much more controlled performance for both boxes. Where it matters is in a less controlled environment. Meaning people playing online exploiting the game. There are no predefined animations for characters, no timed explosions, and set pieces. The level's can get destroyed in real time by "Multiple" variables.

This is where frame rate and Image quality count. And this is where we see the PS4 version shine.

True. I honestly donít really care about the campaign. I loved both Bad Co campaignís but never finished BF3 even though I double dipped on PS3 and 360. I really do appreciate your opinions. Thank you.
shinobi602
Daddy Goggles Groupô
Member in good standing
(10-29-2013, 04:06 PM)
shinobi602's Avatar

Originally Posted by velociraptor

Is it me or does BF4 on the PS4/XBO actually look beautiful? I expected this game to look like dog shit.

Why in the world did you expect that lol? The consoles are multitudes more powerful than the 360/PS3, I would expect them to look damn good.
AranhaHunter
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:07 PM)
I have a PS4 pre ordered, launch edition, on amazon.

Every single one of the pics in the OP, I preferred the XO version as I thought the images were sharper and the colors were richer. I am not reading the whole thread and I know there's some controversy regarding how DF did their work, can someone please quickly summarize what the controversy is?
Pain
Banned
(10-29-2013, 04:08 PM)

Originally Posted by andycapps

I don't like whatever AA they're using for the PS4 version. Probably not something that would keep me from getting the game, but it looks like they smeared vaseline over everything. I assume that could also be an issue from the sub-1080p signal being upscaled to 1080p, but either way, not a fan of how blurry it looks. Fix this shit, Guerrilla!

You mean DICE?

Anyway these comparison shots aren't good. Digital Foundry admitted to messing them up. http://n4g.com/news/1382809/digital-...video-capature

It's updated on the first page of this very thread.
borghe
Loves the Greater Toronto Area
(10-29-2013, 04:08 PM)
borghe's Avatar

Originally Posted by potam

Can anyone give me a tl;dr on what we've learned, aside from 900p?

somewhere along the way classic "showroom floor tv" "effects" were added to the xbone version. crank up sharpness and contrast, while lowering brightness. The effect ends up being much the same as it is on the showroom floor. Image looks bolder and sharper.

doing these things it's possible to make the XBONE image more appealing to certain consumers. this is a plus for MS and xbone.

visual quality shenanigans aside, PS4 largely runs with a much better framerate overall, despite 50% more pixels on the screen, and thus less aliasing. PS4 and PC also have ambient occlusion in their builds, something DICE says is being added to XBONE version before release.

Originally Posted by AranhaHunter

I have a PS4 pre ordered, launch edition, on amazon.

Every single one of the pics in the OP, I preferred the XO version as I thought the images were sharper and the colors were richer. I am not reading the whole thread and I know there's some controversy regarding how DF did their work, can someone please quickly summarize what the controversy is?

as I just said in this post. richer colors and sharper image are all a result of sharpness being cranked up and contrast and brightness being messed with. It's mostly an ugly effect that simply makes things "pop" more than actually making them better. You can accomplish the same thing on PS4 (or PC) by just cranking up the sharpness on your TV, lowering brightness and cranking up contrast. It's literally the exact same thing. Difference is it's your choice on the PS4 (by adjusting your TV). On XBONE it's just the image you are given.

Thread Tools