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Perkel
Banned
(10-29-2013, 02:49 PM)

Originally Posted by SiRatul

So much for that one thread about X1 having more effects at 720p. Let's see how this will look with AO and whether there will be any preformance hits to the framerate of the X1.

Also considering AO is heavy on hardware we should re review framerate performance when AO will make into Xbone version. IF now PS4 easily has better framerate then with AO on it will be even higher difference
tkalamba
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

"AO was one of the fixes that didn't make it into...."

https://twitter.com/repi/status/395181209619165184

He even states that its only one of the missing updates
foxbeldin
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by tkalamba

what is the frame rate gap now?

swordfishtrombones
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Perkel

I see what you did there. But i think you botched your work



Crushed blacks and nice sharpen filter. I can't get aliasing since Killzone shots are 1080p with good AA..

That's sharpist.
Kerub
Banned
(10-29-2013, 02:49 PM)
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To be fair, the frame rate is more balanced on Xbox One.
Maninthemirror
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(10-29-2013, 02:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by foxbeldin

Oh crap lol thats huge
And the higher framerate is on the system with a higher resolution and AA
StuBurns
just talking loud
and saying nothing
(10-29-2013, 02:49 PM)
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We don't know AO will hurt performance, it depends if they've made strides in optimization.
TheRealTalker
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Perkel

I see what you did there. But i think you botched your work



Crushed blacks and nice sharpen filter. I can't get aliasing since Killzone shots are 1080p with good AA..

I dont know about you but this is all I am getting on my screen

I'll stop now
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 XBOX PS4 PS4
(10-29-2013, 02:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by derwalde

of course. man, look at the colours. they are damn fine on the xbone and so washed out on the blurstation 4.

LOL.
Bundy
Banned
(10-29-2013, 02:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Kerub

To be fair, the frame rate is more balanced on Xbox One.

lol
MikeE21286
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

The story here should not be which visuals look better. The story should be one console had to do a lower resolution in order to even make the visual comparisons nearly identical. Anyone who does not recognize this fact is in some sort of strange denial.

Wait what....if resolution doesn't make visuals look better than I just...I don't know what we're talking about here.
Kinyou
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

You are deluding yourself if you think the X1 version will be on par with the PS4 version at retail... We don't even know what AO implementation they'll have on the X1, could be SSAO for all we know.

Never said that. But the gap might become smaller.

And he says right there in the tweet, same AO as in PC/PS4
Toma
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by StuBurns

We don't know AO will hurt performance, it depends if they've made strides in optimization.

True but then again, PS4 will be better optimized as well by then. Since both versions get more optimization and X1 gets added another effect on top, it wouldnt seem unlikely for the FPS gap to widen a bit more.

Originally Posted by Kinyou

Never said that. But the gap might become smaller.

And he says right there in the tweet, same AO as in PC/PS4

Its more likely to become bigger in my opinion.
The One Who Knocks
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by CoG

With people going back and forth between crushed blacks and color saturation the point is being missed that the PS4 version is outputting nearly twice the pixels, with AA, at a more stable frame rate.

There it is -- after months of speculation from GAF and denial/balance talk from Albert and Nelson the theme for this generation has been established. The Xbone versions of titles are always going to be behind in performance and visual fidelity. This is a much wider gap than initial 360 vs PS3 comparisons. Never was there a title at PS3 launch where the 360 was outputting double the pixels with higher fidelity. It's insane how anemic the Xbox One is in comparison to the PS4.

I concur, hesitantly. I'm not sure if they are 'always going to be behind in performance and visual fidelity' but I do think superior Playstation 4 versions (marginally or otherwise) will be a 'theme for this generation'.

The pictures and videos themselves may present themselves, initially, as a more interesting comparison since, ultimately, that's what you'll see but as you've pointed out, the numbers present a much more interesting, and somewhat worrying, picture (also considering that the pictures/videos can be flawed, as we see here with the Digital Foundry comparison). Just at a technical level, the difference is stark and as far as I can remember, unparalleled this generation. The gap is quite considerable. If the Playstation 4 had a better resolution, but a much more unstable framerate, I would be pretty hesitant to call it a gulf; but the current situation (which you've already summarised) is pretty poor.

As has been pointed out already, when Ambient Occlusion is added, that may alsol bring with it some hit on the framerate, and precisely how much it will impact it is something I'm very curious about. I don't have plans to buy either next generation console currently but it will be very interesting to see if this level of disparity will continue in the coming weeks.

Originally Posted by Y2Kev

Occasionally someone gets a jacket made out of salami and sometimes people fire guns named out of jackets. It's have a fun! Enjoy! Did you have a pleasure!

After this, I for one will be greatly disappointed when I don't see salami jackets and cotton guns in Battlefield 4.
Last edited by The One Who Knocks; 10-29-2013 at 02:55 PM.
Skeff
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Perkel

Also considering AO is heavy on hardware we should re review framerate performance when AO will make into Xbone version. IF now PS4 easily has better framerate then with AO on it will be even higher difference

With AO I would not be surprised to see 30fps at times on XB1, It's already dipping to mid 30's.
genjiZERO
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:51 PM)
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The sci-fi lighting and lack of AA on XBONE are noticeable. I think the moral of this story is that multi-plats will look slightly better on PS4, but 1st party PS4 games will really shine.
Maninthemirror
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

Never said that. But the gap might become smaller.

And he says right there in the tweet, same AO as in PC/PS4

Gap will be bigger after
scandisk_
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:51 PM)

Originally Posted by Perkel

I see what you did there. But i think you botched your work



Crushed blacks and nice sharpen filter. I can't get aliasing since Killzone shots are 1080p with good AA..

too late arrrghhhhh..
Wishmaster92
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skeff

Depending on what's happening it's between 2fps and 15fps difference between PS4 and XB1.

720p vs 900p too. I didn't expect it tbh.
TheZink
Junior Member
(10-29-2013, 02:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by PaNaMa

Just watched the IGN video too:
http://ca.ign.com/videos/2013/10/28/...ics-comparison

The XBONE version has a crisper image, again. PS4 has a blur filter going on.
I don't know if it's FXAA or the upscaler.

PS4 fan here, and but XBOne has a much nicer image. It's just cleaner. Less muddy/blurry. In every video I've watched, multiple sources.

Yeah. Im still torn a little. Ive got both systems ordered and want to cancel one and pick up the other later on. I really love the One TV stuff even though a lot dont. I really cant tell too much of a difference except the One looks a little clearer with more jagged edges. I really dont know what to do. Most of my friends are going One but I dont want to make a bad choice. Son of Mother! This is the only game I really wanted to pick up at launch.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 XBOX PS4 PS4
(10-29-2013, 02:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Maninthemirror

Oh crap lol thats huge
And the higher framerate is on the system with a higher resolution and AA

I know it looks like that but if you take a very close look at the graphs below the image you'll notice that... Fuck it.

PS4 definitely wins on this one.
tkalamba
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Toma

True but then again, PS4 will be better optimized as well by then. Since both versions get more optimization and X1 gets added another effect on top, it wouldnt seem unlikely for the FPS gap to widen a bit more.



Its more likely to become bigger in my opinion.

Or the FPS gap could shrink. At this point we don't know what changes DICE has to implement.
Skeff
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by StuBurns

We don't know AO will hurt performance, it depends if they've made strides in optimization.

Well, if we're playing that game, what makes you think only the XB1 will continue to get optimizations?
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
(10-29-2013, 02:53 PM)
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Overall I like the PS4 shots slightly better but seriously tell me the PS4 has a quality hardware up scaler equivalent to the 360?

Upscalign on the PS3 was dreadful in comparison
KKRT00
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by foxbeldin

Thats so misleading.

---


And why are people saying that Xbone version does not have AA? It has AA, same FXAA filter as Xbox 360, PC and PS4.
You all just finally realized how awful 720p is even with decent postAA when upscaled to 1080p. Something PC gamers were saying for years.
THEaaron
Junior Member
(10-29-2013, 02:53 PM)

Originally Posted by Horsemama1956

Wait, so my PC games which are a lot sharper than console games are just filled with noise? Damn this whole time.

The PS4 version looks like it's running high Post Process AA which makes it blurry. So basically if the PS4 version looks inferior in anyway it because the Xbox version looks worse and our perception is just fucked up?


There is a difference between high resolution textures and noised textures.
Kinyou
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Toma

Its more likely to become bigger in my opinion.

not if the framerate was unoptimized . Again, I'd love to know what other fixes he's talking about
StuBurns
just talking loud
and saying nothing
(10-29-2013, 02:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Toma

True but then again, PS4 will be better optimized as well by then. Since both versions get more optimization and X1 gets added another effect on top, it wouldnt seem unlikely for the FPS gap to widen a bit more.

We really can't assume anything in that regard.

If they're happy with the PS4 version, but no the XBO version, it's possible that it's all hands on deck with XBO. Not to say that will be the case at all. Just that who really knows.
CREMSteve
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(10-29-2013, 02:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by tinfoilhatman

Overall I like the PS4 shots slightly better but seriously tell me the PS4 has a quality hardware up scaler equivalent to the 360?

Upscalign on the PS3 was dreadful in comparison

Up scaling is a moot point if everything is 1080p.
eot
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

Thats so misleading.

Of course, it's cherry picked.
Glorious Ownage
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:55 PM)
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If the "blurriness" is a result of the software upscaler on the ps4 can't they make adjustments for that after the fact?
Toma
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(10-29-2013, 02:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by StuBurns

We really can't assume anything in that regard.

If they're happy with the PS4 version, but no the XBO version, it's possible that it's all hands on deck with XBO. Not to say that will be the case at all. Just that who really knows.

True, true. Just saying what I think is more likely to happen, which is just a vaguely random guess of course.
foxbeldin
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

Thats so misleading.

What is misleading? Graphs are hard cold data and i took it from the op.
Perkel
Banned
(10-29-2013, 02:55 PM)

Originally Posted by Skeff

With AO I would not be surprised to see 30fps at times on XB1, It's already dipping to mid 30's.

Yeah AO is one of those things that is reaaaaly stressful on hardware. For my rig usualy it is 5-10fps alone depending on game geometry.

Also this really depend on quality of it. Good AO can reaaaaly be taxing for hardware meanwhile AO with small draw distance and shitty quality won't change that much.

Good AO in Skyrim via ENB is most of the time for my rig 5-10fps difference on average.
Skeff
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(10-29-2013, 02:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wishmaster92

720p vs 900p too. I didn't expect it tbh.

I got laughed at 3 months ago for saying it, not many people did expect it.

Originally Posted by StuBurns

We really can't assume anything in that regard.

If they're happy with the PS4 version, but no the XBO version, it's possible that it's all hands on deck with XBO. Not to say that will be the case at all. Just that who really knows.

It's extremely unlikely people making the PS4 version would be re-assigned to the XB1 version because, they are not experienced in it, it would actually be slower as the experienced with XB1 coders would have to teach the PS4 guys.
Valnen
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by CREMSteve

Up scaling is a moot point if everything is 1080p.

True, but you can't guarantee every game will be native 1080p on PS4 forever, which is why if Sony isn't going to mandate native 1080p resolution for games, they need a good hardware scaler.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
(10-29-2013, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by CREMSteve

Up scaling is a moot point if everything is 1080p.

Agreed but based on this and other news we'll have a fare share amount of sub 1080p games on PS4.......not cool especially if the scaler produces a sub par image.
mangochutney
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:56 PM)

Originally Posted by tinfoilhatman

Overall I like the PS4 shots slightly better but seriously tell me the PS4 has a quality hardware up scaler equivalent to the 360?

Upscalign on the PS3 was dreadful in comparison

It won't need one after the initial batch of sub-1080p getting-to-grips-with-the-system games are out of the way.

Isn't this the only sub 1080p game so far?
Monty Mole
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(10-29-2013, 02:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kerub

To be fair, the frame rate is more balanced on Xbox One.

:D
shinra-bansho
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(10-29-2013, 02:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Perkel

I see what you did there. But i think you botched your work

Crushed blacks and nice sharpen filter. I can't get aliasing since Killzone shots are 1080p with good AA..

I thought the crushed blacks were just due to the limited RGB so my "XB1 filter" was just reducing the color balance to 13-236 range and applying a shapen filter (this is in ImageJ other programs might have better filters).
Majanew
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(10-29-2013, 02:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by foxbeldin

To be fair, the PS4 version drops lower than the XB1 version when the smoke stack falls:





The PS4 version still has aliasing problems, too. Even with the blurry AA applied.
Night Angel
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:58 PM)

Originally Posted by Lynn616

Cheat? If people like the X1 image better that is not a cheat or a trick.

Well, if a comparison is being made and one item has had a filter applied that is well known to look "better" to people who hate accurate color representation and image fidelity, that doesn't really set a level playing field, does it?
Maninthemirror
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(10-29-2013, 02:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheZink

Yeah. Im still torn a little. Ive got both systems ordered and want to cancel one and pick up the other later on. I really love the One TV stuff even though a lot dont. I really cant tell too much of a difference except the One looks a little clearer with more jagged edges. I really dont know what to do. Most of my friends are going One but I dont want to make a bad choice. Son of Mother! This is the only game I really wanted to pick up at launch.


Xbox one


Ps4


From the ign vid . The aliasing is due to the sharpening filter on x1 not a blurring filter on ps4. In fact ps4 looks more cinematic and x1 looks more cartoony
StuBurns
just talking loud
and saying nothing
(10-29-2013, 02:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skeff

It's extremely unlikely people making the PS4 version would be re-assigned to the XB1 version because, they are not experienced in it, it would actually be slower as the experienced with XB1 coders would have to teach the PS4 guys.

Interesting. I know PS3 and 360 system programmers tend to specify, but I thought PS4 and XBO were close enough that developers wouldn't have specific teams anymore. If that's the case, then I guess it does make sense.
Backfoggen
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(10-29-2013, 02:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by foxbeldin

What is misleading? Graphs are hard cold data and i took it from the op.


Man get a load of this junk frame rate on PS4 that's embarrassing

both versions hold 60 pretty well at least in SP
tkalamba
Member
(10-29-2013, 02:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Majanew

To be fair, the PS4 version drops lower than the XB1 version when the smoke stack falls:





The PS4 version still has aliasing problems, too. Even with the blurry AA applied.

and this is why the comparisons at this point are pointless. We likely don't even have the final retail versions for either console.
Respawn
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(10-29-2013, 03:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by foxbeldin

Oh my
Papacheeks(GRPodcast)
Junior Member
(10-29-2013, 03:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheZink

Yeah. Im still torn a little. Ive got both systems ordered and want to cancel one and pick up the other later on. I really love the One TV stuff even though a lot dont. I really cant tell too much of a difference except the One looks a little clearer with more jagged edges. I really dont know what to do. Most of my friends are going One but I dont want to make a bad choice. Son of Mother! This is the only game I really wanted to pick up at launch.

Are you basing your opinion on the Single player footage? Everyone is using the Multiplayer footage as a basis. Which according to Jack Frags is no comparison. Better frame rate on PS4 with the double the pixel density.

The single player stuff is, to me whatever, because it's within a controlled environment. Meaning certain effects and assets are used just for cinema tics, and linear levels. Much more controlled performance for both boxes. Where it matters is in a less controlled environment. Meaning people playing online exploiting the game. There are no predefined animations for characters, no timed explosions, and set pieces. The level's can get destroyed in real time by "Multiple" variables.

This is where frame rate and Image quality count. And this is where we see the PS4 version shine.
Dragon1893
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(10-29-2013, 03:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skeff

With AO I would not be surprised to see 30fps at times on XB1, It's already dipping to mid 30's.

Unless there's further optimization to compensate, frame-rate will probably take a hit of 3-4 fps on average is my guess.
chris0701
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(10-29-2013, 03:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by foxbeldin

[img]bbt8ewe.png[/img]

It isn't not same frame, dude. The explode in XO is more pronounced;lol

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