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zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(11-15-2013, 01:12 PM)
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Seemed like the news was too important to be buried in the iFixit thread.

On mobile so I can't link right now, but it's a 2Gb Samsung chip attached to the low power secondary processor.

My guess is that it is used for caching the 15min video recording.
Deku Tree
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(11-15-2013, 01:14 PM)
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Love it. Now give us some AAA gamez.
BronsonLee
Member
(11-15-2013, 01:15 PM)
I KNEW THEY WERE LYI oh you mean the video encoder...ya that makes sense
chadskin
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(11-15-2013, 01:16 PM)
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dGPU, too? ;)
Lagspike_exe
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(11-15-2013, 01:16 PM)
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Pretty awesome. PS4 is a little bit more complex than I thought, although it seems to be quite easy to develop for. Kudos to Cerny.
Nightengale
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(11-15-2013, 01:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by zomgbbqftw

My guess is that it is used for caching the 15min video recording.

I was wondering what's stopping Xbox from matching Sony's 15min video recording, given that their Upload Studio feature is very annoying to use if you have to manually mix 5 minute recordings.

Guess this makes sense.
Leflus
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(11-15-2013, 01:17 PM)
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dat secret sauce
Delusibeta
Banned
(11-15-2013, 01:17 PM)

Originally Posted by zomgbbqftw

On mobile so I can't link right now, but it's a 2Gb Samsung chip attached to the low power secondary processor.

Before anyone get confused, that's 2 gigabit, which is eight times smaller than a gigabyte (i.e. 256MB).
elite09
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(11-15-2013, 01:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nightengale

I was wondering what's stopping Xbox from matching Sony's 15min video recording, given that their Upload Studio feature is very annoying to use if you have to manually mix 5 minute recordings.

Guess this makes sense.

It doens't, you could still use the HDD to store the video, the RAM is just for buffering.
ClearData
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(11-15-2013, 01:18 PM)
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The PS3 is alive and well inside the PS4!
RaikuHebi
Banned
(11-15-2013, 01:18 PM)
Secret sauce confirmed.
jimbobsmells
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(11-15-2013, 01:18 PM)
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Edit: never mind
Last edited by jimbobsmells; 11-15-2013 at 01:21 PM.
JayFalcon
Banned
(11-15-2013, 01:19 PM)
Was hoping it was a hidden PS3 chip for backwards compatibility
Redmoon
Junior Member
(11-15-2013, 01:19 PM)
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Isnt it 2GB DDR3 SDRAM?

- Samsung K4B2G1646E-BCK0 2Gb DDR3 SDRAM
JPizzle84
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(11-15-2013, 01:20 PM)
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Neat. Unexpected extra hardware is always exciting. Add it to the TF count!
Respawn
Banned
(11-15-2013, 01:20 PM)
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The more days that pass the more sauce pours out.
stryke
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(11-15-2013, 01:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Redmoon

Isnt it 2GB DDR3 SDRAM? Alonh with some small flash mem.

- Samsung K4B2G1646E-BCK0 2Gb DDR3 SDRAM
- Macronix MX25L25635FMI 256Mb Serial Flash Memory

gigabyte vs gigabit
TGO
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(11-15-2013, 01:21 PM)
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Wait...What!
Guymelef
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(11-15-2013, 01:21 PM)
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jeff_rigby is coming.
Lagspike_exe
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(11-15-2013, 01:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Redmoon

Isnt it 2GB DDR3 SDRAM? Alonh with some small flash mem.

- Samsung K4B2G1646E-BCK0 2Gb DDR3 SDRAM
- Macronix MX25L25635FMI 256Mb Serial Flash Memory

2Gb = 256MB. 8 bits = 1 byte.
Bundy
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(11-15-2013, 01:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Leflus

dat secret sauce

PS4 has more physical RAM than Xbone confirmed.
zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(11-15-2013, 01:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Redmoon

Isnt it 2GB DDR3 SDRAM?

- Samsung K4B2G1646E-BCK0 2Gb DDR3 SDRAM
- Macronix MX25L25635FMI 256Mb Serial Flash Memory

Nope. Those are 256MB and 32MB chips respectively.
Tobor
Look!
A crack addict with a tag!
(11-15-2013, 01:21 PM)
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We already knew there was an extra processor, right?
DrROBschiz
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(11-15-2013, 01:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Redmoon

Isnt it 2GB DDR3 SDRAM? Alonh with some small flash mem.

- Samsung K4B2G1646E-BCK0 2Gb DDR3 SDRAM
- Macronix MX25L25635FMI 256Mb Serial Flash Memory

You literally have GB and Gb in the same post

You answered your own question
Audioboxer
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(11-15-2013, 01:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tobor

We already knew there was an extra processor, right?

Yes, but not memory.
Razgreez
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(11-15-2013, 01:23 PM)
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Been stated repeatedly that it's there for low/standby power functionality
sestrugen
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(11-15-2013, 01:23 PM)
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Is the chip codenamed Cloud?
EuropeOG
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(11-15-2013, 01:23 PM)
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64Gb of GDDR5 RAM
Chuck Norris
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(11-15-2013, 01:23 PM)
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Any chance its there to help processing with the rumoured VR device in future?
coldfoot
Banned
(11-15-2013, 01:24 PM)

Originally Posted by Audioboxer

Yes, but not memory.

Also knew there was memory from Sony's own teardown.
epaturun
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(11-15-2013, 01:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Delusibeta

Before anyone get confused, that's 2 gigabit, which is eight times smaller than a gigabyte (i.e. 256MB).

thanks, i was getting confused
sixteen-bit
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(11-15-2013, 01:24 PM)
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Can this be used for BC?
MuseManMike
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(11-15-2013, 01:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by sixteen-bit

Can this be used for BC?

It's a PS3. Yes.

No.
zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(11-15-2013, 01:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tobor

We already knew there was an extra processor, right?

Well there was a debate as to whether there would be a separate processor or if it was all on the main processor. It remains to be seen what is in the secondary processor but it makes sense to have a video encoder and audio encoder as neither has a cost of more than $1 each and a dual ARM A7 will be a few dollars.
ElTorro
I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
(11-15-2013, 01:27 PM)
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Probably all just for background processing. I am rather skeptical that this memory is used as a backbuffer for gameplay recordings. The APU would have to have access to that memory for that to work, so buffering the video in its own memory seems more straight forward.

Or the chip is actually hanging between the APU and the HDMI-Out and can handle video capture completely on its own.
coldfoot
Banned
(11-15-2013, 01:28 PM)

Originally Posted by zomgbbqftw

Well there was a debate as to whether there would be a separate processor or if it was all on the main processor. It remains to be seen what is in the secondary processor but it makes sense to have a video encoder and audio encoder as neither has a cost of more than $1 each and a dual ARM A7 will be a few dollars.

Video encoders are built into the AMD APU these days.
Brad Grenz
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(11-15-2013, 01:33 PM)
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The background processor is obviously for what we've been told it's for since the beginning, managing network and I/O functions while the system is in its low power stand-by state. Audio, Video Encoding and all that stuff happens in the APU. There's no good reason for it to be elsewhere.
maabus1999
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(11-15-2013, 01:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElTorro

Probably all just for background processing. I am rather skeptical that this memory is used as a backbuffer for gameplay recordings. The APU would have to have access to that memory for that to work, so buffering the video in its own memory seems more straight forward.

Or the chip is actually hanging between the APU and the HDMI-Out and can handle video capture completely on its own.

Someone theorized on B3D it was for security functions but then also mentioned 256 is a lot for security.
D-e-f-
Banned
(11-15-2013, 01:37 PM)
getting hype about numbers because they're numbers.
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(11-15-2013, 01:39 PM)
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ram is probably just working space for downloads and connecting to the PSN etc. I wonder if it has its own little embedded OS? Guess it must have.

does it only do background downloads when in standby (annoying pulsing orange LED), or also when you're powered down?
DieH@rd
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(11-15-2013, 01:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by zomgbbqftw

Seemed like the news was too important to be buried in the iFixit thread.

On mobile so I can't link right now, but it's a 2Gb Samsung chip attached to the low power secondary processor.

My guess is that it is used for caching the 15min video recording.

No. GameDVR videos are encoded with 720p30 with ~5mbit quality. That's around ~500MB of data.

My guess is that background processor uses that ram for its own needs, mini OS, drivers for southbridge, app for connecting to PSN, cache for installing stuff, etc.
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(11-15-2013, 01:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by DieH@rd

No. GameDVR videos are encoded with 720p30 with ~5mbit quality. That's around ~500MB of data.

My guess is that background processor uses that ram for its own needs, mini OS, drivers for southbridge, app for connecting to PSN, cache for installing stuff, etc.

yeah. Its kind of a nuts amount though - same ram as PS3 (not including the VRAM) just for a background processor.
zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(11-15-2013, 01:44 PM)
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The additional cost of the RAM is $1.80 per unit for contract prices.
crazygambit
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(11-15-2013, 01:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Razgreez

Been stated repeatedly that it's there for low/standby power functionality

But we didn't know about the RAM. People speculated that it would have to power the whole 8 GB of GDDR5 while in standby.

Though that probably still will be the case with the suspend feature when it becomes available, so I'm not sure what the extra RAM is for.
DieH@rd
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(11-15-2013, 01:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by crazygambit


Though that probably still will be the case with the suspend feature when it becomes available, so I'm not sure what the extra RAM is for.

Keeping APU and 8GB of GDDR5 in standby state [self-refresh mode] will use very low power [~0.5 W]. All the computation power is stopped, all cpu/gpu/ram clocks are down to zero, hardware receives just enough power to retains its "zeroes and ones" alive.
satam55
Banned
(11-15-2013, 01:52 PM)

Originally Posted by zomgbbqftw

Well there was a debate as to whether there would be a separate processor or if it was all on the main processor. It remains to be seen what is in the secondary processor but it makes sense to have a video encoder and audio encoder as neither has a cost of more than $1 each and a dual ARM A7 will be a few dollars.

Do we know how many CPU cores the ARM chip has?
Brad Grenz
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(11-15-2013, 01:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by mrklaw

ram is probably just working space for downloads and connecting to the PSN etc. I wonder if it has its own little embedded OS? Guess it must have.

Yeah, it must. The complications of having to pass control of the system back and forth between the background processor's OS and the main OS are probably why we don't have game suspension at launch.

Originally Posted by mrklaw

yeah. Its kind of a nuts amount though - same ram as PS3 (not including the VRAM) just for a background processor.

Well, there's a few ways to think about it. It's enough that they can buffer downloads and only spin up the drive occasionally to burst write the data, keeping noise and power use as low as possible. And they have to think about what the price and availability of this kind and capacity of RAM will be for the life of the product. With both the PS1 and PS2 they discontinued manufacturing when it got to the point that the parts they needed were so obsolete the prices they'd have to pay to get them made became prohibitive. a 64MB DDR3 chip might have been adequate for their needs today, and cheap, too, but what happens in 5 years when no one mass produces DDR3 in that density anymore?
betterman
Banned
(11-15-2013, 01:56 PM)

Originally Posted by zomgbbqftw

The additional cost of the RAM is $1.80 per unit for contract prices.

2 bucks well spent
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(11-15-2013, 01:57 PM)
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I wonder if this offloads some OS processes.
Apoc87
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(11-15-2013, 01:58 PM)
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Dat Bait Thread.

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