NeoGAF

So I have the full Xbox 360 version of this game that will more than likely never be released. I'm considering streaming it, perhaps in its entirety, tonight. It is all Kinect based. Should I, or is this a bad idea?

Please please do.

Originally Posted by notBald

Please please do.

I just don't know that I'll get in trouble of some sort? I'm not under any NDA or anything. Just it technically is a game that wasn't supposed to be released so... If anyone has more advice, I'd appreciate it.

Really, if it has the same bosses and stage designs as the XB1 version, I'd rather it not be out there until the XB1 has been out for at least a few days, to give people the chance to see it all fresh, without spoilers floating around.

I appreciate the idea, and it could even be a positive way for people to see how much has changed between versions... but I wouldn't watch it until after some comfortable time with the XB1 release.

Would Microsoft / Grounding & Co. Have an issue? I don't know... Japanese people are very strict about citing origin and creators of work, and giving applicable credit to anything shown off... someone MIGHT have an issue, but they also might just be glad that the public gets to see the potentially never-to-be-released work. *shrug*

Like SAB said,

Wait till the real game is out for a bit and we've all played it.

Definitely curious in seeing it though. I feel for your pain having to play it Kinect. But, yes, you should take one for the team.

If you're not under NDA, then do it whenever you want to. People who don't want to watch it can... not watch it. If they wanna check it out later, it'll be archived.

Originally Posted by KillerIsJed

I think I'm going to stream around 12:30am EST or so, if anyone cares to watch

I'm in, curious to see what it looks like.

Crimson Dragon: Unreleased Xbox 360 Kinect version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTpDDB-4Mjo

Originally Posted by Chobel

Crimson Dragon: Unreleased Xbox 360 Kinect version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTpDDB-4Mjo

GAF>Internet>GAF

Well, they've updated the game pre-launch following feedback:

http://news.xbox.com/2013/11/games-c...dragon-updates

Crimson Dragon Updates Upcoming – A Note from the Director Yukio Futatsugi
By Yukio Futatsugi, Director of Crimson Dragon posted November 20, 2013 at 6:57 PM


I’ve heard the feedback on “Crimson Dragon” and plan to adjust the balance of the game before we launch on Xbox One this week.

“Crimson Dragon” is designed to be challenging. This has always been my vision for the game. I want you to feel like you’ve accomplished something each time you master a mission. To be proud of each dragon you’ve worked so hard to evolve to its ultimate form. My challenge as the game director is to find the sweet spot of adhering to my vision for the game while keeping the game from becoming too frustrating. Using the power of Xbox One’s cloud system, we can adjust this balance even after release. Based on the feedback so far, we’ve decided to make some changes even before the game is released.

• We have increased the experience points your dragons will get from each battle, including the experience points you get when you fail a mission.
• Finding your favorite combination of items is an important part of “Crimson Dragon,” so we’ve reduced the cost of items and expanded the availability of jewels (in-game credits) throughout the game.
• We’ve adjusted the different game styles, “Casual” and “Classic”, to better match their intended level of difficulty.

I’m excited to have the opportunity to make these changes before the game releases on Xbox One this week. Thank you all for the feedback. You are truly helping me make “Crimson Dragon” the game that I hoped it would be.

Originally Posted by KillerIsJed

Or I could play it tonight and if people choose to watch it or not they can. I will tell you that it is probably the best Kinect game I've ever played as far as functionality and fun factor. I can't imagine it would hurt the title, if anything help it.

Edit: Didn't mean to sound like a dick. Sorry.

Ha, no worries!

I don't know much about twitch...so if it gets archived then all is good. I was just figuring a stream would get a lot more interested viewers after the game releases so we don't have to spoil.

Originally Posted by KillerIsJed

I think I'm going to stream around 12:30am EST or so, if anyone cares to watch

Edit: Stream is done. Played through the first boss. Replay can be found here.

Originally Posted by Chobel

Crimson Dragon: Unreleased Xbox 360 Kinect version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTpDDB-4Mjo

Looks like the Kinect interface is pretty janky, dragon movement is really rough.

I have to say - there are flashes of that incredible PD art style here, but overall it's a really mixed bag. Man, that sucks. Hopefully it garners enough attention that Sega sees fit to release a PD collection :( Otherwise this might be the last hint we see of the series.

Well, it looks like this is the one launch title that gets critically panned and I'm just not that convinced because I have got quite a bit of pent-up desire to play this for years now. Will hope that their pre-release tweaks address the most serious issues.

Originally Posted by KillerIsJed

Or I could play it tonight and if people choose to watch it or not they can. I will tell you that it is probably the best Kinect game I've ever played as far as functionality and fun factor. I can't imagine it would hurt the title, if anything help it.

Edit: Didn't mean to sound like a dick. Sorry.

Eh, glad you just streamed the first section. It's not about "who wants to see and who doesn't", it's more about the direction of conversation that a product should be allowed before release.

You sounded as if you were going to show everything you could of the previous version, and I just think that'd be more negative than positive, not necessarily to just your watchers, but to the final release product itself. But just a section is no worse than a preview, so not so much a problem.

Originally Posted by CrunchinJelly

Well, they've updated the game pre-launch following feedback:

http://news.xbox.com/2013/11/games-c...dragon-updates

This sounds good in a way, but I wonder if these are even the issues people have with it? I don't know where the panic about "buying continues" came from; weeks of streaming made it very clear that continues were easy to come by through normal play, and that their only purpose is to allow you to continue from where you died, without losing items. It's not like, say, the JoJo's game, or Tekken Revolution, where you can't advance or play until "charges" or "coins" return.

Why do "series fans" freak out about such a thing anyway? Compared to the dime-a-dozen FPS and Modern "Mature" games, this game probably won't sell anywhere near what it deserved, even if it was the best of all the launch games. "Oh no, a company might make an extra buck or 2 off an impatient fan! How evil!"

Originally Posted by MightyHedgehog

Well, it looks like this is the one launch title that gets critically panned and I'm just not that convinced because I have got quite a bit of pent-up desire to play this for years now. Will hope that their pre-release tweaks address the most serious issues.

I think those changes just sounds like they'll make it easier for players to get into the game, without getting frustrated early on, which may have happened to many impatient, continue-freely, no-effort-to-win game reviewers now-a-days. But that probably won't fix the real issues people seem to have, and that is the fact that it's not an exact PD clone.

People often blame Kinect for these changes, but to me it also sounds like Futatsugi tried to add some modern depth to the game, but people overlook all of that, and just focus on the fact that spinning around the camera might be a little less robotic (no 45 degree shifts, more like leaning into each view), and more loose.

Changes / shifts such as having actual decipherable language, elemental affinities for attacks, selectable wingmen, easy ways to score run, free dragon growth and selection, player profile progression leading to unlocks, and reusing of environments less as separate paths on the same map, but instead as separate stages that reuse the map, all seem like good changes to try and progress PD into something that could be seen as a solid modern downloadable title.

Oh well, hopefully, I get a chance to play for myself, and see how this is tonight! I really never feel like modern reviewers know how to look at games like this. Some of my favorite games end up being things that get mediocre review scores, because were I see something that tries to harken back to days modern big-budget games don't give me, with obvious elements of passion and creativity applied, they just see something antiquated and lower-budget than some comparable western release.

Originally Posted by SAB CA

I really never feel like modern reviewers know how to look at games like this. Some of my favorite games end up being things that get mediocre review scores, because were I see something that tries to harken back to days modern big-budget games don't give me, with obvious elements of passion and creativity applied, they just see something antiquated and lower-budget than some comparable western release.

Yep, totally agree. Hyped to play this.

Is this game still in native 1080p?=O

Using the power of Xbox One’s cloud system, we can adjust this balance even after release.

Oh my.

Originally Posted by Teggy

Oh my.

Not sure what is so "oh my" about that statement. It's absolutely true that devs can store things that would be tweak values in the cloud ago that they get instantly pushed when someone plays the game. The contents of such would be so small, too, that it could be actively read from during play.

Originally Posted by piratepwnsninja

Not sure what is so "oh my" about that statement. It's absolutely true that devs can store things that would be tweak values in the cloud ago that they get instantly pushed when someone plays the game. The contents of such would be so small, too, that it could be actively read from during play.

It's just a silly statement. Yesterday they would have called it "a patch". Now they call it "the power of the cloud".

Originally Posted by KillerIsJed

I think I'm going to stream around 12:30am EST or so, if anyone cares to watch

Edit: Stream is done. Played through the first boss. Replay can be found here.

That looks great even on 360, I'm still hesitating if that game or Killer Instinct will be my third game on the One.

Originally Posted by SAB CA

This sounds good in a way, but I wonder if these are even the issues people have with it? I don't know where the panic about "buying continues" came from; weeks of streaming made it very clear that continues were easy to come by through normal play, and that their only purpose is to allow you to continue from where you died, without losing items.

That system (in the phone version) gave me familiar feelings, from the time I was playing in arcades. Not entirely positive, since I always refused to pay to continue (unless I feel I'm really close to finishing the game), but not entirely negative, because it adds a lot of excitement and makes you fear death. :)
In the end, I would advise players not to use gems as continues, especially since it will be much more efficient (and enjoyable) to improve your skills and upgrade your dragon. The gems will be much more useful to buy new abilities.

I watched the GiantBomb Quicklook and I thought this looked awful.

Leaves D4 as the only XBone game that looks interesting to me.

Originally Posted by Teggy

It's just a silly statement. Yesterday they would have called it "a patch". Now they call it "the power of the cloud".

It's not a patch.

Originally Posted by CrunchinJelly

Well, they've updated the game pre-launch following feedback:

http://news.xbox.com/2013/11/games-c...dragon-updates

I'm glad to hear they are making changes. The thing I noticed from Gamespot's stream is that when bombarded by enemies the difficulty came from the fact that you had to be rolling every second to dodge attacks since the movement of the dragon wasn't fast enough.

I was getting this and KI at launch originally, but now I think I am getting Forza instead. I loved the Saturn games and Orta, and was hyped about this game despite lack of information for months. I really don't know how it will turn out. I want to support the series, hope there is a demo so I can get a feel for it. I didn't care about review scores, however when I read reviews that specifically mentioned the reviewers love for the PD series and how disappointing this was, I got worried.

I think they should have made the game level based (like the originals) instead of mission based. In PD when you fly through a level and encounter new creatures it is a really cool experience. In CD they stop you to show a cutscene of the monster appearing and you get a commander lady calling you telling you about everything. Let the players experience this stuff naturally. I hope there is a way to turn her off.

That thread title really stings.... this game wishes it looked half as good as Orta.

It's going to be interesting to read the opinions of fans of the series though, I hope you guys getting an Xbox One enjoy it atleast!

Disappointed with the low review scores but the fact that it's only $20 and there isn't an awful lot of other games I want on the One means I just might get it...

Originally Posted by HueyFreeman

Looks like the Kinect interface is pretty janky, dragon movement is really rough.

I think the adapter on my Kinect makes it that way, shakey. If I play without it, it will be smooth, but I can't control shit.

Originally Posted by KillerIsJed

So I have the full Xbox 360 version of this game that will more than likely never be released. I'm considering streaming it, perhaps in its entirety, tonight. It is all Kinect based. Should I, or is this a bad idea?

You will do this thing.

EDIT: You have done this thing.

Anyone try this out yet? Thoughts?

Just got the game today! I'm playing it on casual. I'm having a lot of fun! It's definitely scratching that Panzer Dragoon itch I've had for so long.

The game is definitely retro in its structure, but I'm having fun.

Originally Posted by KillerIsJed

I think I'm going to stream around 12:30am EST or so, if anyone cares to watch

Edit: Stream is done. Played through the first boss. Replay can be found here.

thanks, I'll actually watch the replay during lunch!

Originally Posted by piratepwnsninja

Not sure what is so "oh my" about that statement. It's absolutely true that devs can store things that would be tweak values in the cloud ago that they get instantly pushed when someone plays the game. The contents of such would be so small, too, that it could be actively read from during play.

not only is your name wrong, but you are just wrong.

So whats the GAF verdict?

I want to hear what people think of this, was so interested in the game until reviewers who were fans of the series said it wasn't good.

I bought it and had a quick go at the first two levels... Too early for detailed impressions, it's quite nice, but the controls felt funny. After playing Child of Eden with kinect or the phone version of CD, aiming with a stick feels quite imprecise. And having to control the dragon in addition to aiming makes it harder.
Anyway it's quite enjoyable, and there is obviously a lot of things to unlock and upgrade (dragons, abilities, sidekicks, ...). It's a bit daunting actually, I'm not sure I should start feeding and upgrading my dragon, or keep some items for the other dragons I'll probably unlock later.

Art direction.? Music?

Are you kidding me? Only like 2 or 3 Gaffers bought this game? We need some real detailed impressions here.

After playing more today here's some late night thoughts.

- Music is great, very much in the same vein as previous Panzer Dragoon soundtracks.
- Controlling the dragon is, for lack of a better term, floaty. Maybe this is something that improves as the dragon levels up?
- Having to control your dragon while aiming a separate reticule takes time to get used to, especially when the camera is facing behind you.
- Haven't run into any issues with microtransactions yet, though it is pretty gross getting achievements for using things that can be bought with real money (as an incentive to try them).
- Only been to a couple areas (reused by levels) but they all look nice, the game itself looks good artistically but it's easy to see the game's roots as a 360 title.
- Game is good to swap over to for 20-30 minutes sessions, lends itself well to short bursts.
- There is quite a bit of depth to some of the mechanics (your dragon's elemental attribute, what wingman you choose, what skills you teach your dragon). It's a bit overwhelming at first but I think I've got the hang of it.

Originally Posted by Anticitizen One

Are you kidding me? Only like 2 or 3 Gaffers bought this game? We need some real detailed impressions here.

Well I played it and beaten the 1st level, but I'm playing Dead Rising 3 and Killer Instinct a lot more.

Bought the game today, played KI all last night, sooo... XD

Ok, random notes and details time! - Please note all these opinions are based on CLASSIC difficulty.

Looks:

• I love the colors and designs. Gives that "HD Dreamcast" feel, which I mean as a compliment!
• The only thing "dated" looking about it is the geometric simplicity (You can see the edges on your dragon when close up, for instance), but it's sharp and nicely designed overall.
• Some of the dragon colors, however, are just... Odd? The "Dark" Day one Dragon you get is the kind of shade of color you wouldn't expect to see used normally, it's not entirely pleasant to the eye.
• The UI is nice enough, and I actually like this "Community Meld" feature of MSStudios games. It looks like a part of the game, but it houses community info and updates. As games now-a-days are always updating and changing, it's great to have something fit-to-the-game that will update us on all these things.

Sounds!:

• Invigorating, inspiring stuff, reminds of the games of old. It fits well, but it's not OVERLY IN YOUR FACE like something such as KI, and isn't trying TOO HARD to get your attention.
• I rather like the sound effects for shooting, kills, etc. They go off at the right times, and the rhythm of it all reminds me of PD well. Gotta love listening to those lock-ons...

Controls:

• Your starting dragons have low agility. They feel heavy, and depend on barrel-rolling for dodging shots. They don't have that nice "Lean right, and watch as you are grazed by shots" feel to them, that is common in games like this and Rez. It's a bit more demanding.
• There should REALLY be an option on the Left / right of D-Pad to get the old "robotic motion" PD style 45 degree angle shift. This would make it easier for you to quickly shift the camera in front or behind you.
• HOWEVER, this isn't necessary, because that's what your wingman technically is for.

Side Section: WINGMAN!:

• The reviews that call him useless don't pay any attention!
• In the start of the game, you're weak. You can't lock on to many enemies, and have no explosives weapons. Hence, enter the Wingman.
• He perfects your attacks, and will make getting ranks much more reasonable.
• You press UP on D-pad to set him before you. Up here, he attacks things even before they start attacking you, which really helps clear groups. This is needed for item collection.
• Press D-Pad DOWN, and he goes behind you. Perfect for catching the one or 2 enemies that slip past you, to again, help you clear those waves.
• He's the extra control that rounds out the unique design decisions. He allows you to do your "full screen explosion" blast, and can even have unique elements, so he can do more damage to things that resist your elements. He's a core part of this game.

Game Play "Feeling" and Notes:

• The slow agility at first really works against you. I have to play on further to see if higher speed makes movement more "natural" feeling.
• Old PD games were balanced to a singular, common dragon that evolved in stages. CD isn't made this way.
• Instead, these stages are designed to make you want to grind them with different elements, abilities, and Ampule (limited use buffs.)
• Hence, It's a bit more loosely designed. You start off just getting by with kills, barely making enough scores for grades, etc.
• This helps make it really satisfying to actually bring and attack with the right "loadout"

Microtransactions? In game Purchases?
So far, I see no reason to ever buy credits.

• Prices:
  • 1.99 - 6 Jewels
  • 4.99 - 20 Jewels
  • 9.99 - 45 Jewels

• You receive jewels for getting medals.
• You can buy everything but the "Drago Hunter Pack" (A collection of random buffs and items) with In game credits.
• The game has freebie "Daily login" items it gives you.
• Credits drop pretty often, as long as you fight well.
• Everything else (Dragons, item packs, continues) can be bought with in-game gold, which you will likely have an abundance of it you play the game for score and item hunting.

Current Thoughts: This is an interesting take on the evolution of this genre. It focuses a bit more on using it's underlying mechanics, rather than straight shooting and dodging, like the days of old. This seems like it may hurt it's initial presentation, and may make the player feel a bit weak and poor to start. However, sticking with it seems to have obvious rewards, and I get the feeling it'll grow on me more and more as I play. It's RPG-ish elements are actually welcomed to me; it gives just one more thing to take away from high-score runs, with in game payoffs of evolutions and new attacks alongside them.

I bought it before the system launched on the smartglass app, but got too sucked into Ryse and Dead Rising.

(Then spent the rest of the evening installing the rest of my games while my wife watched tv on it...)

I have a lot of gaming to get to over the next few days.

This game is getting multiplayer soon. I just read that in the news section. That will be cool.

Heh, I was watching TV, read "The game has freebie "Daily login" items it gives you." and went "oh yeah that's right... Xbox go to Crimson Dragon !" and got my bonus. :P
Silly and lazy, but convenient. (I still had to turn on my controller, though)

lol dem reviews

Good look, SAB CA. I can't wait to dig into it later, but I have to say that, in my brief time with it so far, the heavy dragon you control in the beginning hurts first impressions a bit. I found myself half-dodging with my head via Kinect and switching to bumpers in more heated moments. Looking forward to playing more.