NeoGAF

Originally Posted by wildfire

I don't know how I missed your 8th point. Anyway it's a good idea for Nintendo to make their own games especially after how things fell apart between them and EA. But there is no point to use their games as a bargaining chip in the way you suggest.

If those games sell Nintendo has no reason to end projects that make them money AND foster their experience on making games they rarely or never made before.

Nintendo could shove these games into the dreaded summer period or a week that historically sells bad in return for not putting these games out during the end of the year.

If these games do poorly then Nintendo is unlikely to have any other tool to use as a stick.

This is a possibility considering how games like their FPS Geist failed. Nintendo has to look at the way they do business and business practices are something that can be addressed now. They don't need to wait for new hardware which may still end up being underpowered compared to whatever Sony and a Steambox with a rating of "better" (the rating between good and best) could do in that time frame.

Well I mention the trade as internal studios are expensive and if someone else is willing to shoulder that burden then it's better for the company's bottom line. If it doesn't work then, of course, they should be maintained. Sports titles are really key IMO, without them consoles don't work.

Making the Wii U a 3 year console might not be so bad.


As long as they announce at the same time that the next console is backwards compatible with the game pad and Wii U games early adopters won't get too mad.

I think backwards compatibility, at least by hardware, is one of the things they need to drop in order to hit competitive price points. Backwards compatibility is why Nintendo's CPU and GPU are marooned on older process nodes (45nm iirc) rather than newer 32/28nm ones which would help them cut the cost by $70-80 and move towards profitable hardware and pass on some of the savings to lower the price.

At this point I don't think there is much of a road. They are destined to have a gamecube type of console cycle. But those things will help.

Perhaps maybe we might be looking at this from a completely different angle here. Let me explain and please keep in mind that this is no more then just a theory i have. So please no freaking out and perhaps maybe someone out there may see where I'm going with this.

One of the biggest complaints outside of the shovelware that was slapped on the Wii from 2006 up until last year. Most core gamers ignored there Wii systems expect for 1st party games. Everyone plays 1st party games but outside of that minus a few gems people found, they all complained that there major problem with the Wii had, is that there was no love for the core audience.

Now this is where my theory comes into play. I haven spoken to a few of my core friends and they somewhat can see what I'm getting at but at the same time its extremely difficult for them to really understand that this could of been Nintendo's intent. Perhaps Nintendo released there system a year early for a reason and that reason is because of the core audience. I mean look at all the launch titles and release's up until now and how many of those are games are designed for the core audience in mind? Now before you quote me and say "yeah but those games are already on the PS3/360" this is a fact of course so there is no denying that aspect but that's not the point here. Nintendo was getting that message across to the core gamers who doubted them and pointed fingers at them for so many years about how they abandon them. Yet this plan completely backfired on them but with good intent.

Now that year has gone by and now we are starting to see more casual games come out, advertising (little by little but it counts), and much more of an effort from Nintendo to get people (the audience they lost from the Wii moving over to the smart phone/social gaming scene), don't you find it weird that now Nintendo is really driving this aspect home. Sure it could be due to the fact that it hasn't sold well at all but maybe Nintendo was just giving that year head start to see if the core audience would indeed come aboard, regardless of the library that was mostly on last gen systems. Yet they were trying to show the core audience they did indeed care about them and to have its moments with that audience first before getting back what they lost.

Now it just seems funny that Miiverse is coming to iphones, and the 3ds which has a huge install base already. More casual games coming as well along with there big first party push, pushing even more on the advertising aspect by building huge sections at malls and other related type stores. Why not do that during the first year?

Again this is just a theory and i know I'm 99.9% wrong on this but i figure i would just add my two cents into the mix of all the hate and negativity Nintendo is getting with the Wii U.

Oh one finally aspect as well to add to my theory is that Core gamers know what they want and how they go about it. Advertising is something that comes natural to core gamers. We tend to see an ad on TV for a game and just ignore it or never bother to even say anything about it. Not all are like that but i believe Nintendo left the advertising to us the core gamers and it somewhat worked but in a very bad negative way. Now i know this part here seems and sounds completely dumb but that's now i see it in my head.

So again its just a theory I'm throwing out there and I'm sure you guy's will just rip my post apart piece by piece cause we do that as gamers but meh, just wanted to speak my mind.

Originally Posted by Stencil

Terrible idea. This goes against essentially all Nintendo has worked for in creating their userbase with not only the 3DS but the Wii U as well. It's akin to saying "Nintendo go [3rd Party] and be a family man"

They need their back catalog on smart phones. They have two and half billion smart phones users they could be selling their old games to. That far outstrips the tiny install base of the 3DS and Wii U.

I'm just thinking about what Nintendo could do for their next console, and there's one thing that bugs me more than anything else. Of all their problems, I think the lack of third party support is going to be the biggest hit to the company over the long term. I wonder if they'll ever be able to remedy this because let's face it: consoles are about games, games, games. Not having good third party games greatly shortens the amount of games on your console.

In the last generation, whenever AAA multiplatform games were announced, it was usually always PS3, 360, and PC. In this generation, I see it being the same way with PS4, Xbox One, and PC again. In the Wii's case it was severely underpowered. The Wii U is underpowered but at least does decent enough HD graphics and online integration is improved. The real problem this time is the hardware sales. So it will be two straight generations that Nintendo has fallen way behind in this regard. Why should third parties ever come back? If they're already confident in three dedicated platforms, why even bother with Nintendo?

Part of the problem is that the games Nintendo makes are very different from the rest of the industry. They focus on platformers, jrpgs, and party games while the rest of the industry makes shooters, wrpgs, and sports games. Nintendo focuses on rated E content while the rest focus on rated M content. Nintendo creates games around different hardware (Wiimote, Gamepad) while the rest have stuck with a standard dual analog controller (or keyboard and mouse). I've always said Nintendo does their own thing, for better or worse. It seems like they have ignored what the industry is doing, and vice versa.

It's unfortunate that things have gone this way for the big N. On a personal level, I actually still enjoy Nintendo games more than any other games, but from what I can see, the majority of gamers have moved on. Smartphones and tablets have swooped up the younger demographic that Nintendo relies heavily on, and Sony and Microsoft have run away with the older mature gamers.

So what can they do? I wish I could answer that. They could start creating games that appeal more to mature players, but Nintendo seems too set in their own ways to do this. Even if they put out a console with power on par with current tech, I'm not sure third parties will forgive and forget so easily. Time will tell I guess.

I'll end this post with a quote I think I'll always remember:

"We just don't care too much about what other companies are doing or are trying to do."
- Iwata

There is a way for Nintendo to bounce back, but it would take a leader with balls of steel to pull it off. Here's my suggestion:

1. Pull the plug on the WiiU asap, there's no saving it.
2. Make and release a Nintendo Steam Machine.

I know it sounds crazy, but:

- it allows Nintendo to keep control of the hardware
- it gives them instant access to a big audience
- it gives them a world-class distribution and online platform
- it encourages third party support
- it brings them closer to the western audience

Originally Posted by Goldenmoney

I'm just thinking about what Nintendo could do for their next console, and there's one thing that bugs me more than anything else. Of all their problems, I think the lack of third party support is going to be the biggest hit to the company over the long term. I wonder if they'll ever be able to remedy this because let's face it: consoles are about games, games, games. Not having good third party games greatly shortens the amount of games on your console.

In the last generation, whenever AAA multiplatform games were announced, it was usually always PS3, 360, and PC. In this generation, I see it being the same way with PS4, Xbox One, and PC again. In the Wii's case it was severely underpowered. The Wii U is underpowered but at least does decent enough HD graphics and online integration is improved. The real problem this time is the hardware sales. So it will be two straight generations that Nintendo has fallen way behind in this regard. Why should third parties ever come back? If they're already confident in three dedicated platforms, why even bother with Nintendo?

Part of the problem is that the games Nintendo makes are very different from the rest of the industry. They focus on platformers, jrpgs, and party games while the rest of the industry makes shooters, wrpgs, and sports games. Nintendo focuses on rated E content while the rest focus on rated M content. Nintendo creates games around different hardware (Wiimote, Gamepad) while the rest have stuck with a standard dual analog controller (or keyboard and mouse). I've always said Nintendo does their own thing, for better or worse. It seems like they have ignored what the industry is doing, and vice versa.

It's unfortunate that things have gone this way for the big N. On a personal level, I actually still enjoy Nintendo games more than any other games, but from what I can see, the majority of gamers have moved on. Smartphones and tablets have swooped up the younger demographic that Nintendo relies heavily on, and Sony and Microsoft have run away with the older mature gamers.

So what can they do? I wish I could answer that. They could start creating games that appeal more to mature players, but Nintendo seems too set in their own ways to do this. Even if they put out a console with power on par with current tech, I'm not sure third parties will forgive and forget so easily. Time will tell I guess.

I'll end this post with a quote I think I'll always remember:

"We just don't care too much about what other companies are doing or are trying to do."
- Iwata

That last quote you posted by Iwata is how Nintendo has always done things. If there was more core gamers buy the Wii U and weren't so power hungry if i can say that without sounding like a complete prick. Perhaps that will encourage more third party support and I don't just mean ports or same game on PS4 and Xbone. I mean get third party to create new games designed for the Wii U. I mean i love the fact that Kickstarter is becoming decently big on the Wii U. Basically give core gamers different experiences on the Wii U they can't get on the PS4 and Xbone.

Originally Posted by 69wpm

I'm way too tired to write about all points, but this just woke me up. Source for this bullshit?

WTF? Have you been living under a rock? There's almost no 3rd party games for Wii U in 2014 and those that were released bombed.

Originally Posted by alexandros

There is a way for Nintendo to bounce back, but it would take a leader with balls of steel to pull it off. Here's my suggestion:

1. Pull the plug on the WiiU asap, there's no saving it.
2. Make and release a Nintendo Steam Machine.

I know it sounds crazy, but:

- it allows Nintendo to keep control of the hardware
- it gives them instant access to a big audience
- it gives them a world-class distribution and online platform
- it encourages third party support
- it brings them closer to the western audience

I've mentioned this once before, just brainstorming. If Nintendo could leverage their IPs and give Valve a smaller cut in order to keep a bit more for themselves I think this could be a really interesting idea. Especially if Nintendo can keep their systems and games on store shelves.

Would be great for Valve since Nintendo hardware could potentially draw a new audience that isn't using Steam, and it would be great for Nintendo since they have access to a constant, huge install base to buy their games. Lots of additional potential revenue (and profit) for both companies.

How about:
Xenoblade HD
Skyrim - Legendary Edition (with gamepad functionality)
Borderlands 2 - Complete Edition (with gamepad functionality)
Diablo 3
Metal Gear HD collection (with gamepad functionality)
New Zelda



It would be my only console.

Originally Posted by Asd202

Thanks for pointing this out this is the main reason Wii U sells badly. Nintendo fans do not buy 3rd party games, 3rd party abandoned them and people stop buying the console because it doesn't have enough games.

Actually if 3rd party devs were to make NEW ip's on the Wii U and not release ports or same games that are released on a more powerful console. Then the System would prob sell more but lets not forget that most new Ip's don't sell all that great even being on both systems. So no matter how you look it. Nintendo is pretty much screw when you look at it. Now would the same aspect still be there if Nintendo's console was just as powerful? Well prob yes.

Originally Posted by Margalis

As far as Nintendo creating knockoffs of popular franchises and sports - that suggestion is all kinds of crazy. Doing that would mean Nintendo abandoning any differentiating factors or core strengths in favor of bad, late-to-market knockoffs.

You really think Nintendo is going to do better if they cancel Smash Brothers and replace it with Ken Griffey Jr Baseball U? That suggestion seems to assume that Nintendo has infinite resources.

"Why don't they just make good knock-off versions of every popular game and sport?" Really? Why doesn't Sony just make good knock-offs of Pokemon, 3D Land and Animal Crossing for Vita?

You misunderstand the suggestion. The goal isn't to stop making the games they make in favor of games missing but to fill out their library with missing content that gamers demand for.

You act like Nintendo can't make games that would be differentiated from game mechanics, let alone art direction. For example if you actually paid attention to sports games you would know there are people heavily annoyed about how certain publishers monopolized genres like basketball and football and did everything in their power to crush competitors who offered unique gameplay experiences.

Maybe you think there's no difference between Battlefield 4, Arma 3 and Call of Doge.

Originally Posted by wildfire

You misunderstand the suggestion. The goal isn't to stop making the games they make in favor of games missing but to fill out their library with missing content that gamers demand for.

You act like Nintendo can't make games that would be differentiated from game mechanics, let alone art direction. For example if you actually paid attention to sports games you would know there are people heavily annoyed about how certain publishers monopolized genres like basketball and football and did everything in their power to crush competitors who offered unique gameplay experiences.

Maybe you think there's no difference between Battlefield 4, Arma 3 and Call of Doge.

You realize Nintendo only has so many studios and so many people and so much money right? They can't make all of the franchises they have right now at once and get them released at any sort of decent pace. Making a new ip from scratch would take even longer and be even more resource intensive because they'd have to try ideas and scrap them without any solid foundation to start from. Making a new ip right now DOES mean they can't be making a new Mario/Zelda/Metroid/etc. at the same time to a large extent. It's called opportunity cost

Originally Posted by Asd202

Well Zombie U tried and failed. The problem is Nintendo fans ( the early adopters ) for the most part do not care for games not made by Nintendo and other people don't view Nintendo home console as a viable gaming device becasue of lack of games and online infrastructure.

yup but who is to blame? It's a combo of all 3 groups. Nintendo, 3rd parties and Gamers.

A lack of third party software is a problem for Nintendo, but hardly their largest problem. If Nintendo found a way to secure titles like Destiny, MGS, and everything else, sales would not increase because the differeniating factor between consoles would still be the exclusive content - the main draw would still be Nintendo's own titles. Additionally, I'm sure the 3rd party content would be nerfed for Nintendo's console or third parties would say that there is not an audience for their content or that their content does not sell well historically on Nintendo hardware. Beefing up the system and focusing on 3rd party support would do nothing but lip service. When it came down to it, the people spending their cash on the WiiU would largely be the same, I believe.

I think Nintendo would be better off expanding their global development program and open studios in multiple regions with a trusted Nintendo employee at the helm. This would mean expanding EAD as well to provide more assistance. They should also keep gaining strategic partners for games like MH and DQ with western publishing rights and development support - get the Tales of series, get a crystal chronicles going. They should also whore out Mario Club like they did with Zombi U to let developers make exclusive content they want and have Ninty help with quality control. They should expand their partnering efforts with Sega, Atlus, Namco, Capcom and Platinum and use the connections they have made to create Nintendo games.

I think Nintendo has the right strategies, they just need to hone in on them - embrace that they are the greatest development conglomerate in the world and use it to help others make games. This is empire building!

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

You realize Nintendo only has so many studios and so many people and so much money right? They can't make all of the franchises they have right now at once and get them released at any sort of decent pace. Making a new ip from scratch would take even longer and be even more resource intensive because they'd have to try ideas and scrap them without any solid foundation to start from. Making a new ip right now DOES mean they can't be making a new Mario/Zelda/Metroid/etc. at the same time to a large extent. It's called opportunity cost

They are still the most successful console software publisher, they definitely have money to invest in publishing intellectual properties for short-term or long-term boosts. As long as Nintendo has the money to invest, the studios working for them are endless, you don't need to own them.

If Nintendo is to forge ahead with the Wii U, a streamlined version of the GamePad with more than 2.5 hours of battery life must be developed ASAP. There should be a hardware bundle with every major release, with some sort of collectible appeal, similar to the 3DS limited editions. Marketing should be relentless.
New development talent is sorely needed, and the development of games needs to be platform-independent. New Nintendo games should be constantly developed regardless of their platform target, possibly on PC hardware, so games can be fully fleshed out in time for launch. (Mario or Zelda at launch)
Nintendo needs to ditch IBM processors, which are best suited to servers, now that the handheld and console divisions have been merged. The 3DS uses ARM, as did every handheld since the GBA. Nintendo's next console and handheld should be ARM64, so games can be scalable, and development on one platform would not detract from the other. Both AMD and Nvidia are developing increasingly powerful ARM APUs, and both Sony and Microsoft have moved on from the Power architecture. Optimally, Nintendo's next console should be a clean slate, sacrificing backwards compatibility for downward scalability with handheld architecture. In this way, Nintendo's current console will essentially become their next handheld, this is nearly impossible with PowerPC.

Originally Posted by ymmv

You're forgetting Sega.

It's funny that I never even realized how little support Nintendo has received from other Japanese companies. If the Wii U had captured at least a sizable portion of the Japanese console market, there was a chance at getting a healthy stream of quirky B-titles between the big Nintendo titles. But with even the languishing Japanese sales, disinterest in console gaming in general and the popularity of the 3DS, there's little chance of that happening.

This puts all the burden of delivering enough titles to keep Wii U owners on Nintendo's shoulders, The droughts will become even longer than they were in the worst Gamecube days. Nintendo is royally fucked.

Shit how did I forget Sega haha.

Just make a new console. They have the savings. Admit you made a mistake, offer the new console at a huge discount for current WiiU owners, and presto, you are back in the game.

Originally Posted by Mashing

They really need to expand. They've made their bed, so now they have to sleep in it. By that I mean they've destroyed any 3rd party relationships they have so they're going to have to float the system themselves. They really need to start hiring more talent, open more studios. To Nintendo, this is probably not cost efficient though. NCL needs to let their US/EU branches be more independent. Let them go out and court 3rd parties, acquire talent and build studios.

This!

This is a big weekend for Nintendo in America, really interested to see how they go up against the new consoles once this month's NPD comes out. (What's the date for that?)


If they don't succeed here over the November/December shopping period then I think we can assume big changes for better or worse. :/ Their next quarterly meeting and Direct will be interesting.

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Ninja

They are still the most successful console software publisher, they definitely have money to invest in publishing intellectual properties for short-term or long-term boosts. As long as Nintendo has the money to invest, the studios working for them are endless, you don't need to own them.

Of course they could publish games made by outside studios. They already do that a lot. But they still need their own staff and people involved to ensure its the quality they want. And who would you have make these new ips if not Nintendo? And suggesting Nintendo outsource their biggest IPs without any control isn't a much better solution. Nintendo is already doing stuff like having Luigi's Mansion 2 done by Next Level or the next Smash Bros being developed by Namco Bandai, but in both cases they were tightly supervised by the original creators. So either their best creators are focusing their time and energy on established stuff, or new stuff. They can do both, but they have to focus more on one at any given time to ensure quality

Originally Posted by Maidenpool?

Just make a new console. They have the savings. Admit you made a mistake, offer the new console at a huge discount for current WiiU owners, and presto, you are back in the game.

Yeah, its so simple Nintendo! You will win once you make a new console! It's fool proof!!!! Everyone will buy it!

Originally Posted by Fatalmephisto

Perhaps maybe we might be looking at this from a completely different angle here. Let me explain and please keep in mind that this is no more then just a theory i have. So please no freaking out and perhaps maybe someone out there may see where I'm going with this.

One of the biggest complaints outside of the shovelware that was slapped on the Wii from 2006 up until last year. Most core gamers ignored there Wii systems expect for 1st party games. Everyone plays 1st party games but outside of that minus a few gems people found, they all complained that there major problem with the Wii had, is that there was no love for the core audience.

Now this is where my theory comes into play. I haven spoken to a few of my core friends and they somewhat can see what I'm getting at but at the same time its extremely difficult for them to really understand that this could of been Nintendo's intent. Perhaps Nintendo released there system a year early for a reason and that reason is because of the core audience. I mean look at all the launch titles and release's up until now and how many of those are games are designed for the core audience in mind? Now before you quote me and say "yeah but those games are already on the PS3/360" this is a fact of course so there is no denying that aspect but that's not the point here. Nintendo was getting that message across to the core gamers who doubted them and pointed fingers at them for so many years about how they abandon them. Yet this plan completely backfired on them but with good intent.

Now that year has gone by and now we are starting to see more casual games come out, advertising (little by little but it counts), and much more of an effort from Nintendo to get people (the audience they lost from the Wii moving over to the smart phone/social gaming scene), don't you find it weird that now Nintendo is really driving this aspect home. Sure it could be due to the fact that it hasn't sold well at all but maybe Nintendo was just giving that year head start to see if the core audience would indeed come aboard, regardless of the library that was mostly on last gen systems. Yet they were trying to show the core audience they did indeed care about them and to have its moments with that audience first before getting back what they lost.

Now it just seems funny that Miiverse is coming to iphones, and the 3ds which has a huge install base already. More casual games coming as well along with there big first party push, pushing even more on the advertising aspect by building huge sections at malls and other related type stores. Why not do that during the first year?

Again this is just a theory and i know I'm 99.9% wrong on this but i figure i would just add my two cents into the mix of all the hate and negativity Nintendo is getting with the Wii U.

Oh one finally aspect as well to add to my theory is that Core gamers know what they want and how they go about it. Advertising is something that comes natural to core gamers. We tend to see an ad on TV for a game and just ignore it or never bother to even say anything about it. Not all are like that but i believe Nintendo left the advertising to us the core gamers and it somewhat worked but in a very bad negative way. Now i know this part here seems and sounds completely dumb but that's now i see it in my head.

So again its just a theory I'm throwing out there and I'm sure you guy's will just rip my post apart piece by piece cause we do that as gamers but meh, just wanted to speak my mind.

Yea you may very well have a good theory there, but the major problem is that it was poorly executed by Nintendo as well as third parties. If there's one thing hardcore players don't like, it's a drought of games, and the Wii U had a very long drought after the first wave of launch titles. It was looking like a half decent release schedule, but things gradually took a turn for the worse. It wasn't until after E3 that they released Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101. Aliens Colonial Marines got canned, though that turned out to be a shit game anyways, but remember how people were saying it was going to be amazing with the gamepad? Rayman Legends got delayed so it could be multiplatform. There were doubts over whether the Wii U would get Call of Duty Ghosts. EA took a complete U-turn (no pun I promise) with their "unprecedented support." I'm sure I'm missing other games that got cancelled too.

In short, Nintendo and third parties did not inspire much confidence for hardcore gamers.

In my opinion, the problem goes much deeper than that - in short, Nintendo has not created a sustainable ecosystem, contracting in their own market and not promoting further growth.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's, Mario was more recognizable than Mickey Mouse. Let that sink-in for a moment.

Nintendo had created an ecosystem where their Animated TV Shows (Captain N, The Super Mario Bros Show!) and licensed goods, featured on cereal boxes among others, grasped a child's attention. The child would become emotionally attached to the character and would in turn want whatever memorabilia associated with the character t-shirts, school bags and most importantly, an NES or SNES to play a Mario game. Brilliant marketing ploy and a strategy still utilized to this day by the likes of Disney, the Pokemon Company, and Namco-Bandai to name a few (Gundam, Power Rangers).

Now, twenty-years later, none of the above exists from Nintendo (Remember Nintendo does not handle the daily operations of Pokemon, the Pokemon Company does). Nintendo has wrapped itself into a cocoon shell and marketing budgets of their products have severely dwindled.

Nintendo needs to go back to the drawing board and recapture what they have done previously so successfully, and implement it accordingly. Invest in an animation studio like you were suppose to in early 2004 - create Pixar-like quality movies (Mario, Zelda) and animated tv series (Fire Emblem, X, Animal Crossing) to promote your properties, license your characters to theme park establishments such as Universal Studios (They have done a good job with Harry Potter and Despicable Me), invest in other properties or acquisitions and lastly buy the Pokemon Company - it is your most precious property and yet only own 33% - put it under the Nintendo umbrella and learn from their success.

Create a healthy-ecosystem where one supports the other - consumers will come.

Originally Posted by Goldenmoney

Yea you may very well have a good theory there, but the major problem is that it was poorly executed by Nintendo as well as third parties. If there's one thing hardcore players don't like, it's a drought of games, and the Wii U had a very long drought after the first wave of launch titles. It was looking like a half decent release schedule, but things gradually took a turn for the worse. It wasn't until after E3 that they released Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101. Aliens Colonial Marines got canned, though that turned out to be a shit game anyways, but remember how people were saying it was going to be amazing with the gamepad? Rayman Legends got delayed so it could be multiplatform. There were doubts over whether the Wii U would get Call of Duty Ghosts. EA took a complete U-turn (no pun I promise) with their "unprecedented support." I'm sure I'm missing other games that got cancelled too.

In short, Nintendo and third parties did not inspire much confidence for hardcore gamers.

Agreed, but i mean if EA wasn't such a bunch of morons and cry when Nintendo didn't go along with there crappy service. Yet despite that aspect. You're right about the 3rd party's yet the question is why do 3rd parties Hate Nintendo so much? I don't think the power of the system has much to do with it. Maybe, they just get pissed off that there 1st party games outsell there games 10 - 1. I don't know that question can be debated i believe.

Originally Posted by Gartooth

This is a big weekend for Nintendo in America, really interested to see how they go up against the new consoles once this month's NPD comes out. (What's the date for that?)


If they don't succeed here over the November/December shopping period then I think we can assume big changes for better or worse. :/ Their next quarterly meeting and Direct will be interesting.

December 12th, after market close.

Originally Posted by InsaneZero

If the gaming press has a problem with Nintendo, then they should identify those problems and have a better relationship with them. The gaming press serve to an audience that Nintendo historically does not have access to, so the more outlets they can use the better. Nintendo Directs should be used in conjunction, rather than a replacement.

What?


How about the gaming press be more professional and do their fucking jobs by making sure to accurately report on ALL aspects of the gaming industry like you're supposed to? Nintendo's job is to get the press the tools they need to review their games and also to send them press releases. If the media is going to spin Nintendo's message into a negative in an effort to gain more page hits, or choose to just act like Nintendo doesn't even exist (Gametrailers) then it's Nintendo's job to make sure that their message is getting directly through to their consumers without any sort of filters or spin. That way the consumer themselves can make a decision as to what they want to do. The Nintendo Direct is Nintendo's initiative on this and it's been a massive success.


I'm not here to comment on other points of the OP, just this one issue.

I just want to say that that controller is BETTER than the specs would have you believe. The resolution may be low but it is good enough. Besides, it's really just an addition to the main TV screen.

It's also very comfortable and useful for playing offscreen.

Nintendo's problem is winning over third parties. Maybe their programming tools aren't good enough. In any case, if they had stronger third party support, the other issues wouldn't be so pressing. Even it's weaker specs. We all know the non hardcore don't really understand them.

Originally Posted by vinnygambini

In my opinion, the problem goes much deeper than that - in short, Nintendo has not created a sustainable ecosystem, contracting in their own market and not promoting further growth.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's, Mario was more recognizable than Mickey Mouse. Let that sink-in for a moment.

Nintendo had created an ecosystem where their Animated TV Shows (Captain N, The Super Mario Bros Show!) and licensed goods, featured on cereal boxes among others, grasped a child's attention. The child would become emotionally attached to the character and would in turn want whatever memorabilia associated with the character t-shirts, school bags and most importantly, an NES or SNES to play a Mario game. Brilliant marketing ploy and a strategy still utilized to this day by the likes of Disney, the Pokemon Company, and Namco-Bandai to name a few (Gundam, Power Rangers).

Now, twenty-years later, none of the above exists from Nintendo (Remember Nintendo does not handle the daily operations of Pokemon, the Pokemon Company does). Nintendo has wrapped itself into a cocoon shell and marketing budgets of their products have severely dwindled.

Nintendo needs to go back to the drawing board and recapture what they have done previously so successfully, and implement it accordingly. Invest in an animation studio like you were suppose to in early 2004 - create Pixar-like quality movies (Mario, Zelda) and animated tv series (Fire Emblem, X, Animal Crossing) to promote your properties, license your characters to theme park establishments such as Universal Studios (They have done a good job with Harry Potter and Despicable Me), invest in other properties or acquisitions and lastly buy the Pokemon Company - it is your most precious property and yet only own 33% - put it under the Nintendo umbrella and learn from their success.

Create a healthy-ecosystem where one supports the other - consumers will come.

For all that, why not just create some type of partnership with Disney? Sounds ludicrous, but if there is any company that has the resources to help morph the Nintendo brand back into an all encompassing type of property, it's probably them.

Nintendo needs to sit down and focus on their IP. Mario sells millions, Zelda sells millions, Kirby sells million, Metroid Prime sells millions, Donkey Kong sells millions, Kid Icarus sells millions, Mario Kart sells million, everything Nintendo sells millions. As is also evident from the Wii and its success, all that is needed for Nintendo to survive is Nintendo IP. They just need Mario and everyone else to release. Once they release, millions will buy those games, but they will be forced to buy the Wii U to play them.

Think about this for a second. Every Nintendo IP is iconic. Everyone knows it. Everyone always says it so it must be true. Third parties have forsaken Nintendo at their own expense. They can't compete with their Call of Doodies and Grand Theft Autos so they deliberately don't support Nintendo. The joke is on them however as Nintendo doesn't need them.

Nothing else is needed. Just Nintendo fans. It's Nintendo against the world, and Nintendo will win. We will make sure of it.

People always seem to focus on the cost of the hardware but I think game prices are just as big an issue. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to reduce the cost of games though.

(I mean in relation to price of Wii games more than the iOS arguments)

Originally Posted by vinnygambini

In my opinion, the problem goes much deeper than that - in short, Nintendo has not created a sustainable ecosystem, contracting in their own market and not promoting further growth.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's, Mario was more recognizable than Mickey Mouse. Let that sink-in for a moment.

Nintendo had created an ecosystem where their Animated TV Shows (Captain N, The Super Mario Bros Show!) and licensed goods, featured on cereal boxes among others, grasped a child's attention. The child would become emotionally attached to the character and would in turn want whatever memorabilia associated with the character t-shirts, school bags and most importantly, an NES or SNES to play a Mario game. Brilliant marketing ploy and a strategy still utilized to this day by the likes of Disney, the Pokemon Company, and Namco-Bandai to name a few (Gundam, Power Rangers).

Now, twenty-years later, none of the above exists from Nintendo (Remember Nintendo does not handle the daily operations of Pokemon, the Pokemon Company does). Nintendo has wrapped itself into a cocoon shell and marketing budgets of their products have severely dwindled.

Nintendo needs to go back to the drawing board and recapture what they have done previously so successfully, and implement it accordingly. Invest in an animation studio like you were suppose to in early 2004 - create Pixar-like quality movies (Mario, Zelda) and animated tv series (Fire Emblem, X, Animal Crossing) to promote your properties, license your characters to theme park establishments such as Universal Studios (They have done a good job with Harry Potter and Despicable Me), invest in other properties or acquisitions and lastly buy the Pokemon Company - it is your most precious property and yet only own 33% - put it under the Nintendo umbrella and learn from their success.

Create a healthy-ecosystem where one supports the other - consumers will come.

I would argue that Mario is still the most recognizable videogame character and that he is still used to sell merchandise, but not to the same extent. Your ideas are tantalizing, I must admit, but they do not focus on a path that relies on Nintendo's existing strengths. Yes, they should whore out their properties where it makes sense, but I don't think they need to focus on making an animation studio. However, I agree with you generally.

Originally Posted by Fatalmephisto

So again its just a theory I'm throwing out there and I'm sure you guy's will just rip my post apart piece by piece cause we do that as gamers but meh, just wanted to speak my mind.

Why are you calling this a theory? This is exactly what Nintendo said they were doing. When it was released it was trying to cater to a core audience, and when that bombed, coupled with a desire to counter-program their competition, they're focusing their marketing on a more family/casual audience.

Originally Posted by Gummb

Yeah, its so simple Nintendo! You will win once you make a new console! It's fool proof!!!! Everyone will buy it!

They absolutely would. Could you imagine a console more powerful than the ps4, with full third party support and all the Nintendo exclusives to boot? I would buy that! Better yet, if Nintendo simply said tomorrow that the console would be coming out in the fall of 2014 or the spring of 2015... I would wait, and I'm sure others would too.

This isn't a ridiculous idea either. Nintendo is, (to quote a smart man) "flush with cash" compared to Sony and Microsoft. Thanks to over thirty years of hard work in the games industry, in a situation that would be the end of a normal company - they can afford the ability to correct this mistake immediately.

How many 3DS handhelds have sold? Nintendo need to convince the millions who have bought one of them to also buy a Wii U. How do you do that, free game incentives if you own a 3DS? Console discounts? There's obviously a market out there for Nintendo products.

Originally Posted by Gummb

Yes, they should whore out their properties where it makes sense...

Mario is about as 'whored out' as he's ever been right now, just not necessarily in other media forms. He's all over kid's clothes, beds, toys, cereal, candy...

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

Of course they could publish games made by outside studios. They already do that a lot. But they still need their own staff and people involved to ensure its the quality they want. And who would you have make these new ips if not Nintendo? And suggesting Nintendo outsource their biggest IPs without any control isn't a much better solution. Nintendo is already doing stuff like having Luigi's Mansion 2 done by Next Level or the next Smash Bros being developed by Namco Bandai, but in both cases they were tightly supervised by the original creators. So either their best creators are focusing their time and energy on established stuff, or new stuff. They can do both, but they have to focus more on one at any given time to ensure quality

Well there are a couple of realities here. Nintendo does not have a competent world wide studio infrastructure. They have a meager amount of R&D outside of Japan and some of which has been poorly managed. NST in Seattle, or a smarter branding of EAD Seattle, should have been a legit studio for the company. The EAD Studio brand should have been taken globally instead of being kept insular and stifled in growth in the maximum capacity filled Kyoto office and smaller Tokyo office. Then there is the reality that you have a new generation of talented Japanese developers working for Nintendo, and they are mainly booked to create games perpetuating the ideals of Mr. Miyamoto. Why not stop with the Miyamoto PR, and make the EAD name as big as Naughty Dog.

Nintendo who gains a publishing revenue from software that is quadruple of SCEI, fails to invest or build the paradigmatic first-party development network that SCEI has in North America, Europe, and Japan. Which is why I think there is no imminent cure for Nintendo's R&D management, and their ideal situation would be to increase their first-party portfolio by using more contract developers in their network.

Will the quality drop because a game is being developed in Sweden by an independent company, instead of Japanese developers wearing Nintendo jackets? Absolutely not. NIntendo has an experienced external production unit that incubates the development, enforcing the philosophical ideals and providing ample funding to successfully create the product.