NeoGAF

Originally Posted by alexandros

There is a way for Nintendo to bounce back, but it would take a leader with balls of steel to pull it off. Here's my suggestion:

1. Pull the plug on the WiiU asap, there's no saving it.
2. Make and release a Nintendo Steam Machine.

I know it sounds crazy, but:

- it allows Nintendo to keep control of the hardware
- it gives them instant access to a big audience
- it gives them a world-class distribution and online platform
- it encourages third party support
- it brings them closer to the western audience

I would be OK with this, would support day 1 if I was able to play the entire steam library on it + Nintendo games on my tv.

Originally Posted by Gummb

Really?? Can you give me some examples? 0.0

My nephew has NSMB pajamas. I've seen backpacks, shoes, shirts, and fruit snacks with Mario branding at Walmart. I'm sure if I actually paid attention I'd see even more stuff.

Kind of on topic regarding marketing and public relations.

Nintendo released a "Nintendo Minute - Super Mario 3D World Favorite Levels" on YouTube today and actually used off screen camera footage (blue/purple hue and all) to showcase the most important title in their home platforms existence.

Ok, maybe I'm being a little brash, but seriously guys - an Elgato Game Capture is $100, OBS is free, put some damn effort into your marketing propaganda.

Check out the potato cam lets play here

Originally Posted by Starphoenix

Some of us can't help it we don't care about games like Mass Effect or Batman.

Yeah, this bugs me as well. "Well it's your fault that third parties don't do anything on the system!" Well, sure. But I'm not going to buy games I don't like. Now I'm willing to admit that I'm in the minority here, but in general I don't care for Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, FIFA and many others. I did however buy ZombiU, Tekken TT 2, Batman AC, Darksiders II and Most Wanted. Oh and Resident Evil Revelations. But here's the thing, everything else what's coming (even on PS3/360/Xbone/PS4) just doesn't interest me. Kinda sucks.

Just a quick chime in - I would do an ad showing just how BAD the resolution is on the Wii compared to the Wii U. Yes, it makes Nintendo's previous console look worse but when people who bought the Wii just for Wii Sports see just how shit it looks compared to a similar game (Wii Sports Club) in 1080p with new sports, it just might be the kicker.

Originally Posted by Gummb

I mean... it works as a theory, but it takes about 2 years to develop and finalize hardware and just as long to prepare a software launch let alone get regular development cycles in place after interupting Wii U deveopment... and that's a lot of money when Ninty could just ride it out 4 more years, make their profit and launch when demand for new consoles is back up and the competition still has 5 more years in their planned cycle.

If they aren't on it already, they should get on it now. Release in 4 years maximum. I don't think they can ride out this generation on the Wii U - I mean they won't lose an incredible amount of money - but they will lose respect and brand recognition because no one will own one.

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Ninja

Will the quality drop because a game is being developed in Sweden by an independent company, instead of Japanese developers wearing Nintendo jackets? Absolutely not. NIntendo has an experienced external production unit that incubates the development, enforcing the philosophical ideals and providing ample funding to successfully create the product.

So... why is Nintendo so reluctant to start a new EAD Europe or EAD North-America? It just can't be Miyamoto holding them back? I suppose the entire upper management has a say in this.

Speaking of Europe, what's NERD's task in France?

They really need to let loose their stable of IPs. They will never make the Wii U as successful as past systems, but if they have the hope of making it even semi-succesful they need to attract at least gamers back to the system. Third parties aren't coming back other than the odd exclusive like Monster Hunter or Sonic. They need to use what they have.

At this point, and considering next year's games as well, the system is will saturated with Mario and Platformers. There's nothing wrong if Nintendo keeps making them (they're going to put out DKC, Yoshi, probably a Kirby eventually, etc.) but they really need to start utilizing some of their IPs that can target a slightly older audience. They have them, they need to use them.

The way I see it there are 3 core IPs that could go a long way to making a difference in the eyes of the average gamer. Now, I am not saying these games will sell terribly well initially, nor have entries in these series really done so in the past, but getting them on the system on top of Zelda, Smash Bros, some Platinum games, and a huge great looking RPG like X would really start to make the library look more worthwhile. These 3 games that I think they really absolutely need to get on the system are:

1. A New Metroid Prime
2. A New F-Zero
3. A New Star Fox

All 3 of these should be the highest quality Nintendo can muster and all 3 should have in depth online modes in addition to the single player content people have come to expect from them. These 3 games combined with the others I mentioned would start to really turn heads and get people more interested in picking up the system, despite a lack of third party support.

Apart from these core games that I think absolutely must be added to the Wii U's library Nintendo has other franchises they can use to bolster the library. Namely:

• Wave Race w/ Online
• Punch-Out
• Advance Wars or Batallion Wars (but Days of Ruin it) w/Online
• Kid Icarus w/ Online
• Fatal Frame

And they can throw in:

• Another RPG in addition to X, such as Golden Sun
• A New sports IP that doesn't use Mario/Is not Wii Sports
• A revival of one of their long unused NES IPs ala Kid Icarus such as Ice Climber, Takamaru, Gumshoe, etc.

Now, even if they made all of those games on Wii U...the system still is unlikely to ever have amazing success. But even doing half of that (but especially those 3 "core" franchises) would really get people to start paying attention to the library.

Right now the library has more than just Mario/Platformers but when people look at it that's all they see because it is what stands out the most. That perception needs to change and Nintendo has the IP to do it. They need to fill the genres these games would cover in the absence of third parties doing so.

Originally Posted by Sadist

Yeah, this bugs me as well. "Well it's your fault that third parties don't do anything on the system!" Well, sure. But I'm not going to buy games I don't like. Now I'm willing to admit that I'm in the minority here, but in general I don't care for Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, FIFA and many others. I did however buy ZombiU, Tekken TT 2, Batman AC, Darksiders II and Most Wanted. Oh and Resident Evil Revelations. But here's the thing, everything else what's coming (even on PS3/360/Xbone/PS4) just doesn't interest me. Kinda sucks.

You're not alone. I don't buy most of what 3rd parties offer not because I hate them or something irrational like that, but because I'm just not all that jazzed about their line ups. As much as I'm excited about the PS4 I haven't bought one because the only two games I care about are FFXV and KH3. Literally everything else drew a complete "meh" from me. Xbone doesn't offer a single title 3rd party or otherwise that I want either.

But those are the games 3rd parties want to keep pushing so I'll just keep not buying them on any system.

Originally Posted by Visualante2

Running from one fire with the 3DS to another with the WiiU. I don't think they can get away with announcing much more vaporware. I think they were pushing their luck with Zelda as it is.

I think a system redesign would be smart and the PS2 slim proved that you can do premium quality on a tight budget. I would rather be kept in the dark until they have game play to show. Having logos and mock up box art thrown around for two years and the chalk board is embarrassing.

I'd love to see Nintendo last a year without releasing a Mario title. It would be an interesting year for sure.

No Mario platformers scheduled for next year. Unless you mean the entire stable of Mario characters never being in any games for a year, in which case I'm pretty sure that has never happened.

The problem with Nintendo Directs isn't what people think it is.

Yes, it gives the information to the people who seek out it, but that's not all. In addition to the Nintendo Direct, and right after it, they send out press releases and materials just like every other company does for each of their games. They put videos up and everything.

The Nintendo Direct before the press release is just gravy, but if you just erase the Nintendo Direct from your memory briefly, everything is IDENTICAL to how every other company does it.

The problem is, as said, the gaming press. It constantly rips into Nintendo, even when they're doing well and doing things right. Places constantly just ignore Nintendo news, whether released through a Direct or otherwise, unless it is a massive megaton.

Originally Posted by TDLink

They really need to let loose their stable of IPs. They will never make the Wii U as successful as past systems, but if they have the hope of making it even semi-succesful they need to attract at least gamers back to the system. Third parties aren't coming back other than the odd exclusive like Monster Hunter or Sonic. They need to use what they have.

At this point, and considering next year's games as well, the system is will saturated with Mario and Platformers. There's nothing wrong if Nintendo keeps making them (they're going to put out DKC, Yoshi, probably a Kirby eventually, etc.) but they really need to start utilizing some of their IPs that can target a slightly older audience. They have them, they need to use them.

The way I see it there are 3 core IPs that could go a long way to making a difference in the eyes of the average gamer. Now, I am not saying these games will sell terribly well initially, nor have entries in these series really done so in the past, but getting them on the system on top of Zelda, Smash Bros, some Platinum games, and a huge great looking RPG like X would really start to make the library look more worthwhile. These 3 games that I think they really absolutely need to get on the system are:

1. A New Metroid Prime
2. A New F-Zero
3. A New Star Fox

All 3 of these should be the highest quality Nintendo can muster and all 3 should have in depth online modes in addition to the single player content people have come to expect from them. These 3 games combined with the others I mentioned would start to really turn heads and get people more interested in picking up the system, despite a lack of third party support.

Apart from these core games that I think absolutely must be added to the Wii U's library Nintendo has other franchises they can use to bolster the library. Namely:

• Wave Race w/ Online
• Punch-Out
• Advance Wars or Batallion Wars (but Days of Ruin it) w/Online
• Kid Icarus w/ Online
• Fatal Frame

And they can throw in:

• Another RPG in addition to X, such as Golden Sun
• A New sports IP that doesn't use Mario/Is not Wii Sports
• A revival of one of their long unused NES IPs ala Kid Icarus such as Ice Climber, Takamaru, Gumshoe, etc.

Now, even if they made all of those games on Wii U...the system still is unlikely to ever have amazing success. But even doing half of that (but especially those 3 "core" franchises) would really get people to start paying attention to the library.

Right now the library has more than just Mario/Platformers but when people look at it that's all they see because it is what stands out the most. That perception needs to change and Nintendo has the IP to do it. They need to fill the genres these games would cover in the absence of third parties doing so.

I agree in theory, but I can see why they're doing this. They're trying to build up an audience for the console so they're focusing on their multi-million seller franchises.

As much as we may like them, F-Zero, StarFox and even Metroid, very very rarely break the 2 million mark, sometimes not even 1 million. Look at Kid Icarus Uprising. So much development time went into it, but it only just managed to become a million seller.

Look at their most recent new IP, done with Platinum. Wonderful 101 is a fantastic game, nearly everyone who has played it loved it, but it has done so catastrophically badly in sales.

Originally Posted by balohna

No Mario platformers scheduled for next year. Unless you mean the entire stable of Mario characters never being in any games for a year, in which case I'm pretty sure that has never happened.

Yarn Yoshi is scheduled for next year. He's not Mario, but he's a Mario character, and the game is a platformer. It's close enough. It's fine though so long as they have more core-targeting games alongside it.

Originally Posted by TDLink

Yarn Yoshi is scheduled for next year.

It actually isn't.

IMHO Nintendo needs a new console next year and should drop their 32X like a sack of potatos.

Originally Posted by JoeM86

I agree in theory, but I can see why they're doing this. They're trying to build up an audience for the console so they're focusing on their multi-million seller franchises.

As much as we may like them, F-Zero, StarFox and even Metroid, very very rarely break the 2 million mark, sometimes not even 1 million. Look at Kid Icarus Uprising. So much development time went into it, but it only just managed to become a million seller.

Look at their most recent new IP, done with Platinum. Wonderful 101 is a fantastic game, nearly everyone who has played it loved it, but it has done so catastrophically badly in sales.

Right, I completely agree. And that is part of my point in that post. They need to bite the bullet and make those games, knowing they probably won't be super successful. It bolsters the system's library and makes it look more attractive as a purchase on the whole. This can lead to all software on the system selling better down the line, which is pretty true to their "evergreen" policy to begin with.

If they can promote Pikmin 3 as a big game on the system, which is far and away more niche/more limited in appeal than any of those 3 then they can do those 3 as well. They're also already basically taking this stance just by producing Bayonetta 2, a sure failure. It's the idea they need to go with for now to get people interested in the system. Individually these titles are weak performers and if they just throw out Bayonetta 2 without building on it then they have basically done it for nothing. Together these titles can all help strengthen sales across the ecosystem.

If Nintendo can make it work, I'll be impressed.

I do think you need to do a relaunch. Even if they just changed the logo colour from blue to orange. Something to make it interesting again.

And I will say, as I say in every thread like this, I would have no option but to pick up a Wii U if they made a Pokemon MMO. For me, it's the one killer app they could offer.

The answer is simple. Make an online gaming service comparable to the other two. The graphics and stuff are fine.

Originally Posted by TDLink

Right, I completely agree. And that is part of my point in that post. They need to bite the bullet and make those games, knowing they probably won't be super successful. It bolsters the system's library and makes it look more attractive as a purchase on the whole. This can lead to all software on the system selling better down the line, which is pretty true to their "evergreen" policy to begin with.

If they can promote Pikmin 3 as a big game on the system, which is far and away more niche/more limited in appeal than any of those 3 then they can do those 3 as well. They're also already basically taking this stance just by producing Bayonetta 2, a sure failure. It's the idea they need to go with for now to get people interested in the system. Individually these titles are weak performers and if they just throw out Bayonetta 2 without building on it then they have basically done it for nothing. Together these titles can all help strengthen sales across the ecosystem.

Pikmin 3 was already in development and honestly pikmin is a much younger franchise which means Nintendo will be more lenient with it. And Metroid they probably are working on. Star Fox and Fzero I'm not convinced would really get anyone on board, certainly not enough people for it to be profitable in the end

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

Pikmin 3 was already in development and honestly pikmin is a much younger franchise which means Nintendo will be more lenient with it. And Metroid they probably are working on. Star Fox and Fzero I'm not convinced would really get anyone on board, certainly not enough people for it to be profitable in the end

I agree that they probably won't be profitable but i agree with The other user though that they need to be made to increase the gaming portfolio on the Wii U. Aa it stands the console looks like (quote from a Convo i had a few days back) "a Mario milking machine"

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

Pikmin 3 was already in development and honestly pikmin is a much younger franchise which means Nintendo will be more lenient with it. And Metroid they probably are working on. Star Fox and Fzero I'm not convinced would really get anyone on board, certainly not enough people for it to be profitable in the end

Metroid Prime, Star Fox, and F-Zero are all IPs that can appeal to a wide audience but target teen and up, unlike the majority of their current and upcoming library (which can appeal to a wide audience, but targets no one specific). To get those gamers back who used to like Nintendo but are now into third party games on the other systems they need these three titles.

Metroid Prime is their FPS. F-Zero is their non-kart racing game. Star Fox is a space shooting game that can also be a TPS (in multiplayer at least). All three of these with great online modes would be killer for Nintendo. It's a huge hole in their current repetoire that they can easily fill.

Something else, Pikmin may be "young" but it also hadn't had a game since the Gamecube. F-Zero is in the same boat and Star Fox is close to that boat as well. These titles coming back in a big way could appeal to a new generation of gamers (in addition to old fans) in ways that they maybe didn't a decade ago. Especially when you consider that a decade ago the third party situation was completely different from today.

It was still more Japanese focused than Western focused. PC and Steam were not the factors they were. Indies were not a factor. The console game ecosystem was different. In a world where stuff like CoD and Forza are now more dominant than they were then it is very possible these games could find wider success, especially with the diminishing amount of releases coming out of other Japanese developers on any systems.

Originally Posted by jonno394

I agree that they probably won't be profitable but i agree with The other user though that they need to be made to increase the gaming portfolio on the Wii U. Aa it stands the console looks like (quote from a Convo i had a few days back) "a Mario milking machine"

I agree they need to diversify, but there are far smarter ways to do so than by releasing a game you know will fail. Even if it did recover the wii u's sales, that would mean nothing if they're not making any more money than they had previously. And I'm really skeptical that it would help at all. At least with Bayonetta 2 it's only had one entry and might've had room to grow as a franchise. But F-zero has been doing badly for many games in a row, as have star fox. It's a ridiculously dumb gamble to poor millions of dollars into a game you know won't do well in hopes that it will draw more users to your machine.

Originally Posted by TDLink

Metroid Prime, Star Fox, and F-Zero are all IPs that can appeal to a wide audience but target teen and up, unlike the majority of their current and upcoming library (which can appeal to a wide audience, but targets no one specific). To get those gamers back who used to like Nintendo but are now into third party games on the other systems they need these three titles.

Metroid Prime is their FPS. F-Zero is their non-kart racing game. Star Fox is a space shooting game that can also be a TPS (in multiplayer at least). All three of these with great online modes would be killer for Nintendo. It's a huge hole in their current repetoire that they can easily fill.

Something else, Pikmin may be "young" but it also hadn't had a game since the Gamecube. F-Zero is in the same boat and Star Fox is close to that boat as well. These titles coming back in a big way could appeal to a new generation of gamers (in addition to old fans) in ways that they maybe didn't a decade ago. Especially when you consider that a decade ago the third party situation was completely different from today.

It was still more Japanese focused than Western focused. PC and Steam were not the factors they were. Indies were not a factor. The console game ecosystem was different. In a world where stuff like CoD and Forza are now more dominant than they were then it is very possible these games could find wider success, especially with the diminishing amount of releases coming out of other Japanese developers on any systems.

Problem is, there's a stigma with Nintendo in the general populace.

When I got my Wii U, one of my friends asked why Zombi U was on it because it's a kid's console since it's made by Nintendo.

This is part of the problem and it seems it will always occur.

Doesn't matter if Metroid, Starfox and F-Zero all come out, get a MetaCritic of 97 and are generally loved (like Mario)...people will still refuse to buy them.

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

I agree they need to diversify, but there are far smarter ways to do so than by releasing a game you know will fail. Even if it did recover the wii u's sales, that would mean nothing if they're not making any more money than they had previously. And I'm really skeptical that it would help at all. At least with Bayonetta 2 it's only had one entry and might've had room to grow as a franchise. But F-zero has been doing badly for many games in a row, as have star fox. It's a ridiculously dumb gamble to poor millions of dollars into a game you know won't do well in hopes that it will draw more users to your machine.

So therefore if they shouldn't use fzero etc but need those sort of experiences, are you saying Nintendo need new ip to do well? I think Thats just as risky as using ip that you think can't be successful.

Originally Posted by TDLink

Metroid Prime, Star Fox, and F-Zero are all IPs that can appeal to a wide audience but target teen and up, unlike the majority of their current and upcoming library (which can appeal to a wide audience, but targets no one specific). To get those gamers back who used to like Nintendo but are now into third party games on the other systems they need these three titles.

Metroid Prime is their FPS. F-Zero is their non-kart racing game. Star Fox is a space shooting game that can also be a TPS (in multiplayer at least). All three of these with great online modes would be killer for Nintendo. It's a huge hole in their current repetoire that they can easily fill.

Something else, Pikmin may be "young" but it also hadn't had a game since the Gamecube. F-Zero is in the same boat and Star Fox is close to that boat as well. These titles coming back in a big way could appeal to a new generation of gamers (in addition to old fans) in ways that they maybe didn't a decade ago. Especially when you consider that a decade ago the third party situation was completely different from today.

It was still more Japanese focused than Western focused. PC and Steam were not the factors they were. Indies were not a factor. The console game ecosystem was different. In a world where stuff like CoD and Forza are now more dominant than they were then it is very possible these games could find wider success, especially with the diminishing amount of releases coming out of other Japanese developers on any systems.

You're an idiot if you think they aren't planning a Metroid game. F-zero had failiure after failure which is why they retired it. Star fox is in a similar boat. And F-Zero and Star Fox still won't sell to the CoD or Forza crowd, and trying to make them do so would only piss off the people who were already fans. You'd be better off making a new ip than trying to retool Star Fox in a way that it would draw the typical TPS crowd. And Pikmin 3 was originally in development as a wii title. Also, why does everyone always forget how awful Star Fox multiplayer has always been?

Originally Posted by jonno394

So therefore if they shouldn't use fzero etc but need those sort of experiences, are you saying Nintendo need new ip to do well? I think Thats just as risky as using ip that you think can't be successful.

New IP are far less risky because they don't have any stigma or perceptions attached to them. Look at how much hate so many franchise reimaginings get for being different. The worst thing Nintendo can do is hurt their reputation more by putting out a new version of an established ip that satisfies nobody. Especially since with a new IP, they can focus more on new ideas and probably don't need to stress production values quite as much in order to satisfy fan's ridiculous expectations

Candy making machines on every system.
Free bunnies with every game.
Life time supply of french fries when you register your product.

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

New IP are far less risky because they don't have any stigma or perceptions attached to them. Look at how much hate so many franchise reimaginings get for being different. The worst thing Nintendo can do is hurt their reputation more by putting out a new version of an established ip that satisfies nobody. Especially since with a new IP, they can focus more on new ideas and probably don't need to stress production values quite as much in order to satisfy fan's ridiculous expectations

And then you look at Wonderful 101 and see how that did.

Originally Posted by zomgbbqftw

since it's the end of the day and the markets have closed in London I have a bit of spare time to do it.

Step one: establish credibility

OP is too optimistic, imo. Nintendo can just write off the Wii U now and hopefully take the lessons they learned and apply them to their next console.

I disagree with the OP about the gamepad though. Gamers don't care about the gamepad enough to care that it's not multitouch, etc.

Originally Posted by jonno394

And then you look at Wonderful 101 and see how that did.

I'm not saying New IPs are ever a sure bet. I'm saying it's smarter to release something that has a chance of succeeding to one that is bound to fail. And a failed IP will draw much less negative attention or frustration than a poor attempt to make Star Fox into a game that the teenage dudebro crowd would buy. Failed new IPs are at worst a drain on money more than anything else. Failed established IPs are a black mark on Nintendo's reputation as well at worst

The WiiU is honestly fucked at this point. Most of my friends still don't even know what it is or heard of it before.

They are better off making a new console and axing the WiiU

Originally Posted by ElectricKaibutsu

OP is too optimistic, imo. Nintendo can just write off the Wii U now and hopefully take the lessons they learned and apply them to their next console.

I disagree with the OP about the gamepad though. Gamers don't care about the gamepad enough to care that it's not multitouch, etc.

Problem is, multitouch resistive would add to the cost, and capacitive is somewhat inaccurate for much of what they wish to do on the Wii U. They can't win.

Originally Posted by flamingotripod

The WiiU is honestly fucked at this point. Most of my friends still don't even know what it is or heard of it before.

They are better off making a new console and axing the WiiU

This is actually a far worse plan.
Their best bet it to just ride it out and keep supporting it, instead of just ditching it immediately while spending billions making a new console to rush to the market.

Originally Posted by JoeM86

Problem is, there's a stigma with Nintendo in the general populace.

When I got my Wii U, one of my friends asked why Zombi U was on it because it's a kid's console since it's made by Nintendo.

This is part of the problem and it seems it will always occur.

Doesn't matter if Metroid, Starfox and F-Zero all come out, get a MetaCritic of 97 and are generally loved (like Mario)...people will still refuse to buy them.

I disagree with this premise. I think in the case where Zombi U or Bayonetta are isolated instances of non-"kiddie" games then yeah they stand out as odd. But if Nintendo actually put out these B IPs of theirs that are focused more on the core-gamer then I could see the perception start to change. I know the argument could be made that they had all three of these on Gamecube, but that was a purple lunchbox (which didn't help the image) and like I said in my last post, the ecosystem was different then.

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

You're an idiot if you think they aren't planning a Metroid game. F-zero had failiure after failure which is why they retired it. Star fox is in a similar boat. And F-Zero and Star Fox still won't sell to the CoD or Forza crowd, and trying to make them do so would only piss off the people who were already fans. You'd be better off making a new ip than trying to retool Star Fox in a way that it would draw the typical TPS crowd. And Pikmin 3 was originally in development as a wii title. Also, why does everyone always forget how awful Star Fox multiplayer has always been?

Thanks for the name calling. Maybe they are planning another Metroid, maybe they aren't. I never know with Nintendo. My point is they don't just need "another Metroid", they need a Metroid Prime with Online Multiplayer. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them announce a new Metroid that is just a NSMB or ALBW style 2D game...and that's exactly what they don't need right now.

Just because something was bad (Star Fox multiplayer) or sold poorly in the past does not mean the same thing will happen 10 years later. The market is different now and these games haven't even had the chance to appeal to a whole new generation of people.

I think Metroid Prime with good online multiplayer could easily appeal to fans of other third party FPSes. Halo has fallen from where it once was and COD is now falling too. I think people are ready for another big spacey FPS. Metroid Prime could potentially do that.

Star Fox with its cast of colourful talking animals probably won't ever appeal to that CoD crowd but its space shooting and TPS gameplay could offer something the Wii U is missing. I also think, as I said a few posts back, a Days of Ruin style Batallion Wars game could work instead (though it doesn't have the same brand recognition).

F-Zero...Nintendo just straight up need a non-Kart racing game. And everyone who has actually played F-Zero knows it's the best of the best. It has the potential to be a bigger franchise than it is, Nintendo just has to treat it better. Plus, everyone knows who Captain Falcon is.

Originally Posted by Maidenpool?

If they aren't on it already, they should get on it now. Release in 4 years maximum. I don't think they can ride out this generation on the Wii U - I mean they won't lose an incredible amount of money - but they will lose respect and brand recognition because no one will own one.

They'll lose a hell of a lot more respect if they just abandoned the Wii U after everything they've put into it. This isn't the Virtual Boy here. It's likely many people will not trust them enough to buy the next console over fear of them just abandoning that one.

They could most definitely get by on a 4 year cycle, but timing is important on when to release the next one. Poor timing is one of the things that fucked over the Dreamcast.

Originally Posted by TDLink

I disagree with this premise. I think in the case where Zombi U or Bayonetta are isolated instances of non-"kiddie" games then yeah they stand out as odd. But if Nintendo actually put out these B IPs of theirs that are focused more on the core-gamer then I could see the perception start to change. I know the argument could be made that they had all three of these on Gamecube, but that was a purple lunchbox (which didn't help the image) and like I said in my last post, the ecosystem was different then.



Thanks for the name calling. Maybe they are planning another Metroid, maybe they aren't. I never know with Nintendo. My point is they don't just need "another Metroid", they need a Metroid Prime with Online Multiplayer. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them announce a new Metroid that is just a NSMB or ALBW style 2D game...and that's exactly what they don't need right now.

Just because something was bad (Star Fox multiplayer) or sold poorly in the past does not mean the same thing will happen 10 years later. The market is different now and these games haven't even had the chance to appeal to a whole new generation of people.

I think Metroid Prime with good online multiplayer could easily appeal to fans of other third party FPSes. Halo has fallen from where it once was and COD is now falling too. I think people are ready for another big spacey FPS. Metroid Prime could potentially do that.

Star Fox with its cast of colourful talking animals probably won't ever appeal to that CoD crowd but its space shooting and TPS gameplay could offer something the Wii U is missing. I also think, as I said a few posts back, a Days of Ruin style Batallion Wars game could work instead (though it doesn't have the same brand recognition).

F-Zero...Nintendo just straight up need a non-Kart racing game. And everyone who has actually played F-Zero knows it's the best of the best. It has the potential to be a bigger franchise than it is, Nintendo just has to treat it better. Plus, everyone knows who Captain Falcon is.

The problem is that it probably won't help and would only serve to alienate current fans. Current Metroid fans DON'T WANT it to be a generic cod/Halo style FPS. The essence of Metroid is something entirely different. Thus if they're going to make an FPS, it's better to start with a new franchise so they don't risk alienating anybody. The Metroid or F-zero names aren't big enough to draw in crowds who have quite frankly never been interested in Nintendo in the first place. All you'd succeed in doing is making the people who do care about and love the franchise pissed off

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

The problem is that it probably won't help and would only serve to alienate current fans. Current Metroid fans DON'T WANT it to be a generic cod/Halo style FPS. The essence of Metroid is something entirely different. Thus if they're going to make an FPS, it's better to start with a new franchise so they don't risk alienating anybody. The Metroid or F-zero names aren't big enough to draw in crowds who have quite frankly never been interested in Nintendo in the first place. All you'd succeed in doing is making the people who do care about and love the franchise pissed off

No I disagree. Brand familiarity is important and something you seem to not really understand. People somewhere have heard of "Metroid" and subconciously they are aware of it. This makes them more receptive to it than just some random new IP. Adding online multiplayer to these games would not ruin them. I'm not saying to make a Metroid Prime with a Halo length campaign. Make a Metroid Prime game just like the others...but then also have fully fleshed out online multiplayer modes on top of that. They already put in multiplayer in Prime 2...and Star Fox Assault had pretty good multiplayer...and F-Zero GX had good multiplayer. I'm not saying they should reinvent the wheel here or make them franchises that they aren't. Just expand upon what they have already done with them in the past and put it online. And market it.

I'm not saying Nintendo can't create new IP either. They already do all the time. Wonderful 101 came out this year and was amazing (but no one bought it). Miyamoto has a new IP next year, apparently. But they really need these games from their established franchises on their system.

People here on NeoGAF say they want new IP all the time but traditionally IP doesn't really start to sell well or get popular until after one installment has already been out. Established IP already has a built in audience on top of what new audience you will bring in.

Originally Posted by H6rdc0re

IMHO Nintendo needs a new console next year and should drop their 32X like a sack of potatos.

Originally Posted by flamingotripod

The WiiU is honestly fucked at this point. Most of my friends still don't even know what it is or heard of it before.

They are better off making a new console and axing the WiiU

Congratulations, you just killed Nintendo's home console business.

Dropping hardware mid-cycle is a vote of no confidence to their ability to support their hardware, and gamers would be less likely to adapt future hardware in the future because they can't support their currently running consoles. There is a reason why Sony didn't drop the PS Vita in its darkest hour, because dropping it would change perception of the hardware maker as one who will drop support if sales are not hitting expectations.

Even of the Wii U sucks in sales, keeping it alive as long as possible will ensure that the 7th generation Nintendo home console won't fail.

Originally Posted by TDLink

No I disagree. Brand familiarity is important and something you seem to not really understand. People somewhere have heard of "Metroid" and subconciously they are aware of it. This makes them more receptive to it than just some random new IP. Adding online multiplayer to these games would not ruin them. I'm not saying to make a Metroid Prime with a Halo length campaign. Make a Metroid Prime game just like the others...but then also have fully fleshed out online multiplayer modes on top of that. They already put in multiplayer in Prime 2...and Star Fox Assault had pretty good multiplayer...and F-Zero GX had good multiplayer. I'm not saying they should reinvent the wheel here or make them franchises that they aren't. Just expand upon what they have already done with them in the past and put it online. And market it.

I'm not saying Nintendo can't create new IP either. They already do all the time. Wonderful 101 came out this year and was amazing (but no one bought it). Miyamoto has a new IP next year, apparently. But they really need these games from their established franchises on their system.

People here on NeoGAF say they want new IP all the time but traditionally IP doesn't really start to sell well or get popular until after one installment has already been out. Established IP already has a built in audience on top of what new audience you will bring in.

And the general consensus to metroid prime 2's multiplayer is that it isn't that good. And Metroid is fundamentally built differently to the CoD style games. Even with multiplayer, it's not going to appeal to that crowds. And I think you really overestimate the pull of these franchises in that regards. The people who care about it being a new Metroid game are mostly going to be people who have already played one before. Yes, people get attracted to a series by word of mouth, but the people you're talking about aren't going to be the people that have received that word of mouth. And expanding upon what they already are isn't going to make them appeal to audiences they didn't already. Nintendo's reputation as a company for children was just as strong in the gamecube days when Assault, GX, and Prime were released. Those titles didn't change that image then, why would they change it now. And yes new ips need time before they start doing well. But that still makes them a better investment than a title that has proven it doesn't do well time and time again

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Ninja

Well there are a couple of realities here. Nintendo does not have a competent world wide studio infrastructure. They have a meager amount of R&D outside of Japan and some of which has been poorly managed. NST in Seattle, or a smarter branding of EAD Seattle, should have been a legit studio for the company. The EAD Studio brand should have been taken globally instead of being kept insular and stifled in growth in the maximum capacity filled Kyoto office and smaller Tokyo office. Then there is the reality that you have a new generation of talented Japanese developers working for Nintendo, and they are mainly booked to create games perpetuating the ideals of Mr. Miyamoto. Why not stop with the Miyamoto PR, and make the EAD name as big as Naughty Dog.

Nintendo who gains a publishing revenue from software that is quadruple of SCEI, fails to invest or build the paradigmatic first-party development network that SCEI has in North America, Europe, and Japan. Which is why I think there is no imminent cure for Nintendo's R&D management, and their ideal situation would be to increase their first-party portfolio by using more contract developers in their network.

Will the quality drop because a game is being developed in Sweden by an independent company, instead of Japanese developers wearing Nintendo jackets? Absolutely not. NIntendo has an experienced external production unit that incubates the development, enforcing the philosophical ideals and providing ample funding to successfully create the product.

Just had look on wiki and not quite sure how accurate this is, but I don't get why the NCL setup just hasn't been replicated at NoA and NoE. It's exactly the thing they need right now.
My crazy idea for in house development teams.

EAD/R&D Japan
Software Development Group No. 1 - Hideki Konno's Team
Software Development Group No. 2 - Hisashi Nogami's Team
Software Development Group No. 3 - Eiji Aonuma's Team
Software Development Group No. 4 - Hiroyuki Kimura's Team
Software Development Group No. 5 - Tadashi Sugiyama's Team
Software Development Group No. 6 - Takao Shimizu's Team
Software Development Group No. 7 - Yoshiaki Koizumi's Team
Software Development Group No. 8 - Shigeru Miyamoto's Team

EAD/R&D US & Canada
Software Development Group No. 9 - Monster Games Inc.
Software Development Group No. 10 - Retro Studios
Software Development Group No. 11 - NST
Software Development Group No. 12 - Next Level Games
Software Development Group No. 13 - Setup a new team

EAD/R&D Europe
Software Development Group No. 14 - Shin'en Multimedia
Software Development Group No. 15 - Setup a new team
Software Development Group No. 16 - Setup a new team

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

And the general consensus to metroid prime 2's multiplayer is that it isn't that good. And Metroid is fundamentally built differently to the CoD style games. Even with multiplayer, it's not going to appeal to that crowds. And I think you really overestimate the pull of these franchises in that regards. The people who care about it being a new Metroid game are mostly going to be people who have already played one before. Yes, people get attracted to a series by word of mouth, but the people you're talking about aren't going to be the people that have received that word of mouth. And expanding upon what they already are isn't going to make them appeal to audiences they didn't already. Nintendo's reputation as a company for children was just as strong in the gamecube days when Assault, GX, and Prime were released. Those titles didn't change that image then, why would they change it now. And yes new ips need time before they start doing well. But that still makes them a better investment than a title that has proven it doesn't do well time and time again

As I said in my previous posts, just because something was one way in the past does not necesarilly mean it will be the same way again. The gamecube was two generations ago now, it also had the perma-kiddie rep from the system being designed as purple with a lunchbox handle. It was when third party games were still mostly exclusive. It was before Steam existed. It was before western mega-developers came to power as the big third parties. It was before Indie games started being what they are now. It was before Japanese developers largely started developing for mobile devices. Heck, it was before mobile devices. Things are different in the world of video games, it's hard to say how these franchises would do today and I don't really think how well something did on the Gamecube or in that era indicates how it would do now. Even if they still sold poorly, I think it should be done to bolster the library and fill genre gaps the system has.

Originally Posted by Scum

Just had look on wiki and not quite sure how accurate this is, but I don't get why the NCL setup just hasn't been replicated at NoA and NoE. It's exactly the thing they need right now.
My crazy idea for in house development teams.

EAD/R&D Japan
Software Development Group No. 1 - Hideki Konno's Team
Software Development Group No. 2 - Hisashi Nogami's Team
Software Development Group No. 3 - Eiji Aonuma's Team
Software Development Group No. 4 - Hiroyuki Kimura's Team
Software Development Group No. 5 - Tadashi Sugiyama's Team
Software Development Group No. 6 - Takao Shimizu's Team
Software Development Group No. 7 - Yoshiaki Koizumi's Team
Software Development Group No. 8 - Shigeru Miyamoto's Team

EAD/R&D US & Canada
Software Development Group No. 9 - Monster Games Inc.
Software Development Group No. 10 - Retro Studios
Software Development Group No. 11 - NST
Software Development Group No. 12 - Next Level Games
Software Development Group No. 13 - Setup a new team

EAD/R&D Europe
Software Development Group No. 14 - Shin'en Multimedia
Software Development Group No. 15 - Setup a new team
Software Development Group No. 16 - Setup a new team

Well Europe has NERD already :) Though they've mostly done apps so far

Originally Posted by TDLink

As I said in my previous posts, just because something was one way in the past does not necesarilly mean it will be the same way again. The gamecube was two generations ago now, it also had the perma-kiddie rep from the system being designed as purple with a lunchbox handle. It was when third party games were still mostly exclusive. It was before Steam existed. It was before western mega-developers came to power as the big third parties. It was before Indie games started being what they are now. It was before Japanese developers largely started developing for mobile devices. Heck, it was before mobile devices. Things are different in the world of video games, it's hard to say how these franchises would do today and I don't really think how well something did on the Gamecube or in that era indicates how it would do now. Even if they still sold poorly, I think it should be done to bolster the library and fill genre gaps the system has.

I really don't think they'll help the console at this point. And if you're going to give them another chance, I think it makes more sense to do so on a console that isn't already doing horribly since at least that way you could more accurately access why it failed if it does

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

I really don't think they'll help the console at this point. And if you're going to give them another chance, I think it makes more sense to do so on a console that isn't already doing horribly since at least that way you could more accurately access why it failed if it does

Handheld and Console have different appeals. What works on one doesn't always work on the other. These need to be console games. Not much will help the console, but it's better to try and fail than not try at all. These games will make the library more attractive. That will cause more people to invest in the system. That will cause more people to buy more games on the system, both ones already released and future games.

Just releasing Mario/Platformers and similar kind of games plus a Zelda is not going to attract many more new buyers than are already there. The exact number of people those 3 titles would bring in is up in the air, but at least they would be different from the current extremely small user base.

Originally Posted by TDLink

As I said in my previous posts, just because something was one way in the past does not necesarilly mean it will be the same way again. The gamecube was two generations ago now, it also had the perma-kiddie rep from the system being designed as purple with a lunchbox handle. It was when third party games were still mostly exclusive. It was before Steam existed. It was before western mega-developers came to power as the big third parties. It was before Indie games started being what they are now. It was before Japanese developers largely started developing for mobile devices. Heck, it was before mobile devices. Things are different in the world of video games, it's hard to say how these franchises would do today and I don't really think how well something did on the Gamecube or in that era indicates how it would do now. Even if they still sold poorly, I think it should be done to bolster the library and fill genre gaps the system has.

Originally Posted by TDLink

Handheld and Console have different appeals. What works on one doesn't always work on the other. These need to be console games. Not much will help the console, but it's better to try and fail than not try at all. These games will make the library more attractive. That will cause more people to invest in the system. That will cause more people to buy more games on the system, both ones already released and future games.

Just releasing Mario/Platformers and similar kind of games plus a Zelda is not going to attract many more new buyers than are already there. The exact number of people those 3 titles would bring in is up in the air, but at least they would be different from the current extremely small user base.

I don't think those games would help enough to justify the cost though. It's not just whether it helps, it's also whether it helps enough that it makes up for developments costs and the likes. If stuff like Zelda, Smash bros, Mario Kart, and the other much bigger names don't help the wii U, than in all likelihood nothing will. If they're desperate enough to try and rely on those franchises, they're probably far better off just pulling the plug and starting again

Games are on the way now and the interface isn't as bad as it was on release. So I think they're fine right now on the software and specs side, even if they're underpowered compared to the PS4/XBONE

Nintendo needs to change the WiiU's look and feel; including the name. A complete re-branding. It's a lot of work and probably not a viable solution at this point but that is essentially where the main problem lies right now.

Get rid of the gloss and make it look more like the 3DS XL. Sleek, smooth and professional. Then you have a common aesthetic between the two and you could even market them together. Just make it look different. The PS4 did it, the XBone did it. The SNES did it, the GC did it, the Wii did it. Almost every system did it. Why didn't the WiiU?

They also need to stop marketing towards perfect clean families. Those adverts they have seem extremely out of touch. There were a lot of greats ones though with Luigi's Mansion and ALBW (and some others). So they could follow a similar format for WiiU games.

But of course, this is just me ranting across my preferences. I don't know shit about marketing and branding. They should just go with what they have for the next 3 or 4 years and then try again.

Originally Posted by JoeM86

Well Europe has NERD already :) Though they've mostly done apps so far

Then games should be next.