Gonna have to go with Cry.
Unity
This is not the fault of the engine though. You could use CE or UE4, sacrifice texture and geometry resolution build smaller worlds, have shorter line of site, and never see an LOD swap or any asset stream in, but that's not the way anyone designs their game content. On the flip side, every proprietary engine with an LOD and/or streaming solution suffers the same issues, some teams just design around those issues better than others, some games lend themselves better to disguising these tricks.Originally Posted by thunder_snail
Neither I hope. All these AAA engines have LOD issues which I despise more than anything.
I'd rather have developers use their own engine or something else that sacrifices texture and model quality for no noticeable LOD pop-ins at all.
Really these days the technological advantage of one engine over another is in the tools; proprietary, CE, UE4, Unity, they are all capable of the same results and the same failings very nearly in the hands of a great team. The real differentiator is the difficulty of achieving the desired results.
Hearthstone and Rain are the only two games I can think of that come from AAA devs that use Unity, though those are fairly small and indie-like projects I guessOriginally Posted by 9thwonder
Really I haven't seen or heard of any AAA devs using it. It doesn't seem like it's on par with UE and CE when it comes graphical features but it's supposed to be modular right? Maybe they can make whatever it doesn't have.
Has Unity support for medium/large teams gotten better? I seem to recall one of the downsides of Unity being that it was good for a small group but not as good if you need to have a large group of people working on the same thing.
Most of AAA devs now have their own engines.No...just no.
EA - Frostbite which will run almost all their games
Cacpcpcom - Earlier MT Framework now wip Panty Raid
Take 2/2k published games already rarely use/used UE
Square is moving to mobile and their main gamer are not on UE
Sony and MS both don't use it
Sega/Atlus rarely this gen used it
Only indies seems to be way to utilise those engines but Unity is going like tsunami there.
Sure there will be games using those engines but it will be nothing like last gen.
Also Cryengine didn't have that much games using it last gen.
They did UT3 for PS3Originally Posted by Teletraan1
Dont know why these engine makers keep doing exclusive games instead of putting out something that is a showcase for both systems to sell/show their engine off. Epic did the same shit last gen with Gears. Seems bass ackwards from a sell your engine standpoint after UE3 was so stinky on PS3.
UE3 still has a ton of life left in it, especially since so many major devs licensed it this generation. Samaritan was a great example of things to come, I'm sure.
Achieved with Cryengine.
Unreal will win out over Cry, hands down.
Took soo long for Cry to offer a free SDK whereas Unreal's UDK has been out in the public for a while.
Once Epic is actually done a game and has a finished version of UDK to offer other devs, then you'll probably see more games coming out using it. Especially with UDK running on more platforms. They haven't finished development on it let alone have something for other devs to use.
Both of them will be limited by the consoles, so you'll see one doing things better than the other rather than a clear winner though I expect Unreal games to be pushed more overall just due to familiarity coding it. Cry just always seems a step behind, especially their external software/plugins/renderers.
Took soo long for Cry to offer a free SDK whereas Unreal's UDK has been out in the public for a while.
Once Epic is actually done a game and has a finished version of UDK to offer other devs, then you'll probably see more games coming out using it. Especially with UDK running on more platforms. They haven't finished development on it let alone have something for other devs to use.
Both of them will be limited by the consoles, so you'll see one doing things better than the other rather than a clear winner though I expect Unreal games to be pushed more overall just due to familiarity coding it. Cry just always seems a step behind, especially their external software/plugins/renderers.
Never again I want to see these ugly UE3 texture like we had on PS3. You know the ones, the shiny ugly ones
I thought Knack was UE?
For sure.UE3 still has a ton of life left in it, especially since so many major devs licensed it this generation. Samaritan was a great example of things to come, I'm sure.
I'm expecting an awful lot of UE this gen. Maybe Japan will pick up on it more and more, too, after everyone's face was melted the hell off by Xrd.
At the beginning of the gen, I think it makes more sense for devs to use or develop their own engine since UE4 is still developing and CryEngine is probably similar. However, 2 years from now, when both have continued to raise the bar and improve the tools and ship on consoles then dev teams will probably feel like they have a more compelling reason to use them. Eventually, I see it as Maya (CryEngine) or 3D Studio Max (UE4).
It all comes down to which one has the tools I need to develop my game and how little I need to alter it, how widely used and easy are the tools and workflow and the amount of talent familiar with it, followed by the support they offer...
Hmmm... If I were a developer in the United States: wait for dev support from Germany to help me with issues with Cryengine or wait a few hours to get support from Raleigh, North Carolina or a few minutes from a vast array of users in the Unreal Developer forums?
Hmmm... If I were a developer in the United States: wait for dev support from Germany to help me with issues with Cryengine or wait a few hours to get support from Raleigh, North Carolina or a few minutes from a vast array of users in the Unreal Developer forums?
Last edited by Duckhuntdog; 11-29-2013 at 08:56 AM.
Frostbite.
I'm saying Unity too. I've just played too many unreal engine games and they've all look and play the same. Has the Frostbite engine been licensed out, that engine is amazing.
From what I've seen after playing around with both... Unreal Engine.
It's just easier for the artists to get great looking stuff going on, and UE4's faults aren't as bad as UE3's (bad quality AO, badly compressed normals, etc...)
I can't wait for Epic to release UDK with UE4 so I can start doing some stuff on it and putting it on my site :)
It's just easier for the artists to get great looking stuff going on, and UE4's faults aren't as bad as UE3's (bad quality AO, badly compressed normals, etc...)
I can't wait for Epic to release UDK with UE4 so I can start doing some stuff on it and putting it on my site :)
I didn't think EA let anyone outside of EA use it, though.Frostbite.
This sounds good in theory, though I got the impression that in the last year, since the announcement of UE4 especially, the Unreal Developer forums became more of a frustrating place. Asking questions in the wrong way can get threads locked if it's remotely related to features that other engines have. UDK hasn't had much updated in forever, the Oculus Rift version of UDK is apparently always going to be different from the main version of UDK instead of merged, it's difficult to get any official response to threads, if you're trying to do anything out of the ordinary you may not get much help at all, there's the question of whether UE4 will be really difficult to get good performance out of compared to the UE3 UDK, there's the question of how long will it take to get a UE4 version of the UDK after games start using it, etc.Originally Posted by Duckhuntdog
It all comes down to which one has the tools I need to develop my game and how little I need to alter it, how widely used and easy are the tools and workflow and the amount of talent familiar with it, followed by the support they offer...
Hmmm... If I were a developer in the United States: wait for dev support from Germany to help me with issues with Cryengine or wait a few hours to get support from Raleigh, North Carolina or a few minutes from a vast array of users in the Unreal Developer forums?
I have long preferred and used UE3/UDK when it comes to messing with 3D game engines, but trying to find information about it or digging about the forums tended to be difficult if I recall correctly. Maybe things have changed or I am just selectively remembering, however.
definitely agree with this. finally working in C++ instead of that shitty unrealscript is going to be a lifechangerFrom what I've seen after playing around with both... Unreal Engine.
It's just easier for the artists to get great looking stuff going on, and UE4's faults aren't as bad as UE3's (bad quality AO, badly compressed normals, etc...)
I can't wait for Epic to release UDK with UE4 so I can start doing some stuff on it and putting it on my site :)
Dat engine
I've yet to see anything blow me away with Unity, and running demos on my PC leaves me thinking the performance can't touch UE3, but maybe I've looked at the wrong things.
were they all UE1 games or something?Originally Posted by DangerDave
I've just played too many unreal engine games and they've all look and play the same.
Nah, it's still pretty hit or miss.I have long preferred and used UE3/UDK when it comes to messing with 3D game engines, but trying to find information about it or digging about the forums tended to be difficult if I recall correctly. Maybe things have changed or I am just selectively remembering, however.
sick of unreal
most have that distinct "unreal engine look" and i don't fucking like it
most have that distinct "unreal engine look" and i don't fucking like it
I've always preferred Cryengine, it just looks better in my eyes. The correct answer might well be "none" though, seeing as so many publishers are going with their own in-house engines.
(11-29-2013, 09:28 AM)
This is interesting hearing what everyone things. Engine selection fall into three categories. Costs, maturity of the tools, and support.
Renderers (what makes it to the screen) are typically reworked or tweaked to reach the goals of the specific game. Take BioShock Infinite, which uses UE3, but the renderer was totally rewritten specifically for the demands and goals of the game. Anything that you see in CryEngine can be replicated to some degree in any other engine/toolset if someone wanted to spend the resources.
Even with UE4, the codebase and tools are still highly based in the logic of previous versions of Unreal. Which makes it a very comfortable development environment, and the updates to the tools pipeline are very impressive. However, Epic continues to work on it, which is why we might not be seeing people rush to market with products using UE4.
CryEngine is still largely unproven and considered a risk by most developers. It does some amazing looking games, but outside of Crytek, no one has made a AAA game using it yet. That might change with Arkane Studios moving from UE3 to CryEngine for their next project.
Support is something that hardly gets mentioned in a place like GAF. UDN (Unreal Developer Network) has THOUSANDS of active users across the world helping other developers solve issues they might have. If you are using Unreal and have an issue, it is highly likely that someone else has run into that issues and has solved it and that information is extremely easy to find. If there is an issue that hasn't been solved, the community at large (professional development community) is very helpful and typically Epic will provide an answer in a timely fashion. Compare that to CryEngine which has 100's of developers worldwide as well as their support office is based in Germany. Turnaround may be a day or two before you get a response let alone have your ticket answered or resolved. That costs money in downtime.
Another thing that no one has brought up is established processes. Take a developer like Gearbox which has done a number of games with Unreal. They have spend their own money to build their own tools and processes (build systems, deployments, and others) with their current tools. Changing to anything else even for better would require them to invest again in all those tools they created on their own. Is the benefit enough for them to make that new investment? Most developers would say no as the return just isn't high enough (yet).
I think Unreal is likely to be licensed widely this generation. Developers have spent a great deal of their own time (money) to work with that toolset/engine. I think the darkhorse of this is Unity because they are extremely competitive pricing, extremely mature toolset bringing on new features all the time, and very active support. As much as my eyes would like to see someone use CryEngine, I don't see developers using it at a large amount. I think some people will change, but it won't be that many (probably 10 to 15 games).
Renderers (what makes it to the screen) are typically reworked or tweaked to reach the goals of the specific game. Take BioShock Infinite, which uses UE3, but the renderer was totally rewritten specifically for the demands and goals of the game. Anything that you see in CryEngine can be replicated to some degree in any other engine/toolset if someone wanted to spend the resources.
Even with UE4, the codebase and tools are still highly based in the logic of previous versions of Unreal. Which makes it a very comfortable development environment, and the updates to the tools pipeline are very impressive. However, Epic continues to work on it, which is why we might not be seeing people rush to market with products using UE4.
CryEngine is still largely unproven and considered a risk by most developers. It does some amazing looking games, but outside of Crytek, no one has made a AAA game using it yet. That might change with Arkane Studios moving from UE3 to CryEngine for their next project.
Support is something that hardly gets mentioned in a place like GAF. UDN (Unreal Developer Network) has THOUSANDS of active users across the world helping other developers solve issues they might have. If you are using Unreal and have an issue, it is highly likely that someone else has run into that issues and has solved it and that information is extremely easy to find. If there is an issue that hasn't been solved, the community at large (professional development community) is very helpful and typically Epic will provide an answer in a timely fashion. Compare that to CryEngine which has 100's of developers worldwide as well as their support office is based in Germany. Turnaround may be a day or two before you get a response let alone have your ticket answered or resolved. That costs money in downtime.
Another thing that no one has brought up is established processes. Take a developer like Gearbox which has done a number of games with Unreal. They have spend their own money to build their own tools and processes (build systems, deployments, and others) with their current tools. Changing to anything else even for better would require them to invest again in all those tools they created on their own. Is the benefit enough for them to make that new investment? Most developers would say no as the return just isn't high enough (yet).
I think Unreal is likely to be licensed widely this generation. Developers have spent a great deal of their own time (money) to work with that toolset/engine. I think the darkhorse of this is Unity because they are extremely competitive pricing, extremely mature toolset bringing on new features all the time, and very active support. As much as my eyes would like to see someone use CryEngine, I don't see developers using it at a large amount. I think some people will change, but it won't be that many (probably 10 to 15 games).
It isn't using Unreal Engine 4.It is the first released UE4 game, as far as I know.
Have you used UE4?As a designer I would choose CryEngine over Unreal every time, so much quicker to iterate. It's just a shame their solid/primitives tool is so... primitive.
Last edited by element; 11-29-2013 at 09:35 AM.
What about Frostbite 3 .
CryEngine, because I haven't seen UE4 in action yet.
Just bring a full blown 100% pure Vietnam FPS using Cry Engine and I'll be one happy gamer. The 60's era classic rock music, the gritty atmosphere of hot steamy jungles with some brutal battles would just be so righteous.
Last great Vietnam shooter i played was the one and only original PC version of "Vietcong"! There has been absolutely NOTHING since then that was any good as far as Vietnam shooters go.
Last great Vietnam shooter i played was the one and only original PC version of "Vietcong"! There has been absolutely NOTHING since then that was any good as far as Vietnam shooters go.
I would like to see a dev as technically competent as Crytek take a shot at Cryengine. So far, not even Star Citizen, comes close to Cytek's use of their own engine. In the worst case, like State of Decay, it just look like someone made it in the map editor and didn't change the assets.
I fear that as long as no one else really competent uses it, Cryengine will be stuck as that realistic engine with the best foliage.
I fear that as long as no one else really competent uses it, Cryengine will be stuck as that realistic engine with the best foliage.
UE4 will certainly be much, much easier to use. But they really need fully dynamic lighting solution. Lightmaps can still be nice though.
is there any AAA title using unreal engine 4? we still haven't seen how good it will look on next gen consoles.
Triple A titles using UE4? Definitely. Announced though? I think only the Epic Games one.Originally Posted by GameAddict411
is there any AAA title using unreal engine 4? we still haven't seen how good it will look on next gen consoles.
We will probably see a lot more stuff coming early next year when most companies get some more stuff going on. UE4 itself had a slow start, but the good thing is most developers that used UE3 shouldn't have all that many issues with UE4 (in fact, it should be much easier with the C++ support and how the new blueprint system works).
Edit: VVVVVVVV Wow, I didn't know there was a UE4 account on these forums...
Last edited by Mik2121; 11-29-2013 at 09:48 AM.
It is odd that so many news stories/threads/sites thought it did, but apparently I was wrong since the official deconfirmation seems to be http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64289071. And thus, I guess no UE4 games whatsoever have been released.It isn't using Unreal Engine 4.
Do you know what engine Knack is using?
Also, do you mind if I ask who you work for? (if you work for a studio) You seem knowledgeable about the recent engines.
(11-29-2013, 11:11 AM)
I used to work at Zombie, but currently working under the radar at another local Seattle developer. I have been around a while and used internal tools and external tools at big studios, little studios, indie studios, and publishers.Also, do you mind if I ask who you work for? (if you work for a studio) You seem knowledgeable about the recent engines.
I don't know what Knack uses. I was too scared to ask Mark Cerny at E3 :(
Tina is awesome! Actually the whole community team at Epic is pretty amazing. Super nice people :)
Haven't seen anything interesting in a game from UE4. Ryse looks stunning.
Well, I've only seen one game (Ryse) running on either engine on next-gen consoles. And while it's impressive, it suffers from what Cryengine games have suffered from on last-gen consoles: frame-rate problems.
I'll have to wait to see and play the fist UE4 game that takes advantage of the engine like Ryse has. Black Tusk's game is using UE4 so it should show what the engine is capable of.
I'll have to wait to see and play the fist UE4 game that takes advantage of the engine like Ryse has. Black Tusk's game is using UE4 so it should show what the engine is capable of.
I'm thinking CryEngine. They seem to have whored their engine out to friggen everyone. Also, I hope that the comparatively smaller engines get a slice of the pie as well. Unity, for example.
As an aside: Not looking forward to the motionblur and chromatic aberration overdose we'll all receive this gen. Fuck engine coders everywhere, and fuck their quest for more shitty effects. Fuck them with a rusty spork right in their eye sockets. An eye for an eye, I say.
As an aside: Not looking forward to the motionblur and chromatic aberration overdose we'll all receive this gen. Fuck engine coders everywhere, and fuck their quest for more shitty effects. Fuck them with a rusty spork right in their eye sockets. An eye for an eye, I say.
I think the closest to release UE4 game is Primal Carnage Genesis.
just judging from tech demos, I'd definitely say ue4
(11-29-2013, 11:48 AM)
Outside of Arkane Studios, who is using it that has had huge success? I'm excited about Star Citizen, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture sounds interesting, but that is about it. They even show Crysis 3 and Warface in their licensee video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkrCT1_y57o which doesn't tell me that they have 'whored it out to everyone'...I'm thinking CryEngine. They seem to have whored their engine out to friggen everyone.
Daylight should be out in Jan and it uses UE4.I think the closest to release UE4 game is Primal Carnage Genesis.
Ryse looks very impressive, but that clipping is so jarring.
It's not about how big the engine is, but about how you use it.
Right right?
Right right?
Your posts were amazing, thanks man. Also can't wait for daylight.Outside of Arkane Studios, who is using it that has had huge success? I'm excited about Star Citizen, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture sounds interesting, but that is about it. They even show Crysis 3 and Warface in their licensee video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkrCT1_y57o which doesn't tell me that they have 'whored it out to everyone'...
Daylight should be out in Jan and it uses UE4.
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