NeoGAF

Originally Posted by fredrancour

NSMBU reputedly has glorious level design, but the appeal of "NEW 2D MARIO FOR THE FIRST TIME IN DECADES" was no longer enough to get people pumped on its own, so 2d mario is probably no longer a system seller til they make a higher-budget entry that doesn't re-use the NSMB aesthetic.

The aesthetic has nothing to do with the sales of NSMBU and its failure to appeal to the mass audiences that bought NSMB Wii. It is entirely down to the platform itself.

Wii sports club won't sell consoles as a downloadable game and if the system doesn't show life by the time the disc edition is out, it will already be too late.

Wii Sports Club wasn't going to sell Wii U anyway. Iwata correctly identified it as a value-add item as opposed to a system mover. It's an upgrade from Wii Sports/Resort, not a whole new experience like what made people buy the Wii in the first place.

Zelda originally sold itself as a badass fantasy action-adventure.

Sure it did. (insert 80's Zelda commercial here)

ALBW sounds like it is reversing some of the series' negative trends, but for the longest time Aonuma showed a strong preference for "quaint, whimsical, and puzzle oriented" over the series' original appeal, which gutted the series' sales potential.

Zelda has been puzzle-oriented since LttP, so for over 20 years. The series appeal has nothing to do with Aonuma's "preferences." Not to mention it was his decision to change from the "quaint" art style of games like Wind Waker for the "mature/dark" direction of Twilight Princess.

3d mario is busting its ass to sell itself to the 2d mario audience, and they do not give a damn. 3D land did well but 3d world is a flop beyond flops so 3d mario would probably be better off pursuing a more distinct direction.

Again, it's a matter of platform.

Sakurai makes ridiculous comments about how fighting games can't be mainstream, but smash will probably still turn out ok.

A fighting game will never reach numbers like Mario Kart, CoD, Minecraft, etc. That's what "mainstream" is. That said, Smash Bros. is the most popular fighting game of all time so he's obviously doing something right.

Even at its best, Metroid was a critical darling that sold decently but not a sales-record setter, and Other M struck that shit stone-cold-dead for now. A future CEO would have to be able to sniff out turds like that and willing to say, oh shit fool what are you even doing no this is not an ok way to spend our money. I feel like Iwata could probably do that if he wanted to.

This doesn't really make sense. Obviously Nintendo took a gamble and it failed, but I'm sure it's confusing to say Nintendo needs to take risks and then hammer them when some don't work out. That's what makes them risky.

and Monolithsoft could probably hit it big with the right RPG.

Supremely unlikely, as much as I'm looking forward to their next game.

Basically, it seems like the early success of the wii went to Nintendo's head. They figured "lol we can make whatever we want with this sick install base we just built" and started messing around.

Like make some of the best games of all time alongside some of the best-selling games of all time? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The Wii U install base isn't the Wii install base so it couldn't be that?

Originally Posted by nynt9

Should people who make this same thread every week step down?

Originally Posted by Iacobellis

Yes.

Reordered, now it makes sense.

Originally Posted by Korigama

Both of those are still made by Nintendo, therefore people still have to pay them money to buy the hardware to play them. Smartphones are not.

Ok, but how is that suppose to be a serious loss for them? Especially if said people were never going to buy a nintendo machine to begin with?

I think this is where the loss of opportunity comes from. Nintendo can't convince everyone to buy their consoles, at least not with the way they continue to market them. However, they could try and use iOS as a gateway to their actual products.

Like Pokemon? Well everything else is still on the 3DS. That version of Pokemon might even be a parred down one.

Originally Posted by w1gglyjones

you don't seem to get that shaking up the dev groups will affect their ability to produce software of consistent quality. but okay... let's just slap online on everything and problem solved

I don't think the poster you quoted was talking about firing everybody. Ideally any intervention would happen at early enough stages of game development that it wouldn't crap all over months of hard work. The current strategy of "trust the developers, no intervention" has created the company's least-popular console ever, so finding a stable, sustainable way to handle executive oversight would probably be in the company's best interest.

With regards to that particular example, I don't actually think online would have saved mario 3d world.

Iwata is my favourite dude in the industry, and I very much enjoy the Wii U and 3DS, so I would be quite sad if he stepped down.

Originally Posted by w1gglyjones

referring to the fact that SONY's financial services division making the lion's share of SONY's profit. no one is really bullish on SONY's prospects to be profitable and as influential as they used to be. no one. wake up, Kaz's three pillars are just a fight to shrink the company down so it can compete better in fewer industries and turn a smaller profit than what it typical of the SONY corporation.

Most analysts have a Hold rating and a large minority expect it to outperform the market and recommend a buy yet even after the ridiculous Abe run this year. Now, you said "as they used to be" so I'm not really sure how to address that. I mean, sure, they likely won't. But is that a realistic standard, anyhow? Does it matter if they stabilize profit and the stock remains strong? I'm not sure most analysts are basing their SNE recommendations based on the standard of what they used to be but rather just as what SNE can be in today's environment. And in that regard, a quick check of any analyst aggregate shows a generally bullish average on Sony. Now, granted, most of that is likely a hivemind low P/E yen equities play. But if we excuse that, then we shouldn't talking about analyst recommendations anyhow. So if we're are, misleading or not, the aggregate is still bullish.

Originally Posted by yaesir

Instead of talking about why he should step down, why don't we talk about the big question here:

And who would take the place?


Really, this is what is important.

Originally Posted by evilromero

I think it's inevitable. The 3DS is doing well, but could be a much better product with a more diverse line-up of games. I just don't see the promise for that platform going into 2014 outside of Smash. A new Kirby game? That's a red flag that things are winding down on the platform.

What are you even talking about? Nintendo has not announced many upcoming 3DS games because there is no need to yet. Example: Kirby was just announced and that is coming out in January.

Whoever turns out to be the next Nintendo president, idc, but they better be good at plumbing.

Gonna need to plumb away dat shit in the toilet, Wii U, so dat more monay can be thrown in to the toilet making more Wii U like consoles.

just joking lol, I love Nintendo and the Wii U, and I'm pretty sure in the long run Wii U will have some nice games.

Don't know if this was a worthwhile investment on Nintendo's part, but I don't think it's completely Iwata's fault.

If he decided it should be called the Wii U (or failed to veto it), then yes.

Honestly, though, I'm not sure Nintendo can ever win over the dudebros. I'm not sure what my own strategy would be, if I took office, so I can't rightfully say that Iwata isn't doing the best anyone could be at the moment.

For years now it seems that Nintendo is under the assumption that they can only cater to families and casual gamers. If Disney can have Mickey Mouse and Pulp Fiction albeit under a different brand, so can Nintendo.

I'd love for them to buy a bunch of developers to develop games for core games. They are still Nintendo owned but can focus on the more adult titles. Just like Disney, Nintendo doesn't tarnish their image while expanding their demographic. This should be priority #1 to me.

Iwata's philosophy of always innovate and catering towards a casual marketing will be end of Nintendo unless they go 3rd party. Their business strategy is unsustainable in the console market unless they can hit the magic number of $99 where it's an impulse buy.

Next Nintendo's president should be Suda 51.

Originally Posted by mr stroke

Dat smile...

I'm sure if he took over, Mario might head somewhere in this direction.

He should stay in charge of handhelds and let someone else worry about home consoles. As much shit as he receives for home consoles, the man knows his handhelds.

Iwata stepping down means fuck all if the management all share similar sentiments on how to approach decisions that affect where Nintendo goes as a whole.

That out of the way, I don't know how to answer this question anymore. I like the idea of a developer being head of a company like Nintendo, liked Iwata's ideals with regards to approaching game design and the market as a whole as craftspeople, and generally like some of the steps he's taken to giving more transparency to how games are made in Nintendo. On the other hand, he's had a long tenure to address problems that have been inherent to Nintendo for multiple decades only to see a few become even more exacerbated. There's also a pervasive feeling of being unable or unwilling to react to the market's [legitimate] desires in a timely manner. Then there's the very interesting situation that is everything Wii U (which immediately followed everything early 3DS).

If he has to go, get someone with a similar respect towards developer culture and gaming as a whole but with a willingness to take many more chances and a personal goal of reaching parity with modern offerings where they count (infrastructure, third party relationships, building more internal resources).

He just needs to make the Wii U/3DS merged handheld and call it a day.

Originally Posted by rpmurphy

This is also suicide.

Nope it's not. That is assuming Nintendo can't come up with a Wii level idea to stay casual. Core is where the most reliant money is. Core will buy your machines early. Core will tell everyone about them.

Obviously Nintendo would need to step up their game considerably, and I'm not sure they are capable of that. That would be the only way it'd be foolish.

If Nintendo goes "We're going after the core" and then release a sub par machine with little third party support, slack digital store, and lack of other exciting entertainment features they'd be foolish then. But of course we know they'd never do tha.........Oh.

Originally Posted by JordanN

But the idea wouldn't be "you're buying a full scale Mario production on iOS." (which probably can't even happen by the way because there are no butttoooooooons)

You would only be buying a game with Nintendo's blessing.

If you can show me the evidence that if Mario Tic Tac Toe would completely kill their hardware business, I would believe you. Right now, there is no Nintendo game on iOS to prove that.

The risk is that offering limited smartphone game experiences devalues the IP, and offering the full experience devalues their hardware. No one can know for sure what would happen, but it's certainly not an obvious and risk free strategy.

On topic I would also like to know who the leading candidates are to take over from Iwata if he got hit by a bus tomorrow?

Yes. He's valuable, he can do a lot of work for the company still, let him be the general manager of some games. But for the company overall, I think new leadership is in order.

Yes.


Hell yes.

Originally Posted by yaesir

Instead of talking about why he should step down, why don't we talk about the big question here:

And who would take the place?


Really, this is what is important.

Why he should step down is still a good question that should be answered.

Nr 1 response right now: "because".

Iwata stepping down could be the worst thing ever to happen to GAF Nintendo fans. Think: no more home consoles, a SEGA type drop in quality, iOS games. Etc...

No. Nintendo is making some of the best stuff they ever have. He just needs to focus it into something that sells again.

Iwata is one of the coolest motherfuckers in the whole industry, so no.

I need my hardcover IwataAsks book doe.

On one hand, I'm annoyed that Iwata has almost positioned himself as a mascot with those Nintendo Directs, trying to make himself irreplaceable.

On the other hand, removing him during a period of struggle could just cause chaos and for even worse decisions to be made.

I'd say this thread should be revisited after Dec. 2013 and see where the 3DS and Wii U landed. If he doesn't have an aggressive strategy come January, then yeah, maybe they should. He does seem to apologize a lot more than deliver.

Yeah, the most interesting take away from this variant of #SackIwata is easily who is actually there currently that can be primed for a CEO position there. When did we first find out about Iwata being Yamauchi's golden boy again? I'd love to hear how long it took before we started hearing about Iwata more openly.

No.

It's true he fucked up this time, but he caught lightning in a bottle last time and Nintendo made millions.

If the Wii U doesn't turn around to respectable numbers by end of Fiscal Year 2014 (i.e. April 2015), then we talk successors.

Yes please. Maybe with a new president Star Fox is brought to the Wii U.I know is not gonna happen

Probably. Nintendo needs to reform if they want to compete globally. At the moment they're far too Japan-centric, something Iwata has failed to address.

Originally Posted by timetokill

Like make some of the best games of all time alogside some of the best-selling games of all time? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The Wii U install base isn't the Wii install base so it couldn't be that?

I guess my entire thing is, I don't believe that the WiiU's main problem is that it's a marketing trainwreck. They made a series of niche products and got niche sales. Every single one of nintendo's potential system sellers has utterly failed to succeed, whereas most of the franchises have succeeded at it before. "Nintendo is a victim of their circumstances and no longer has any viable system sellers" is a boring theory to base a conversation on, and making theories about why possible system sellers underwhelmed relative to their predecessors is more interesting.


In response to the point about zelda's goofy 80s commercial: I guess being younger means that I can't comment directly on how it was received at the time, so I'm going off what my own childhood felt like, and no one noticed Zelda's marketing. The games sold themselves on word of mouth and the way they appealed to our imaginations.

Originally Posted by SethADrekin

Iwata didn't invent the Wii U..

I realize that. But I do hold him responsible for Nintendo's current overall strategy, which is "find a gimmick". Nintendo's mantra, once upon a time, was that making the best games ensured success.

No, I don't think he should step down but Nintendo as a whole need to refocus. If they swing and miss with the next console then yes.

Originally Posted by dcx4610

For years now it seems that Nintendo is under the assumption that they can only cater to families and casual gamers. If Disney can have Mickey Mouse and Pulp Fiction albeit under a different brand, so can Nintendo.

I'd love for them to buy a bunch of developers to develop games for core games. They are still Nintendo owned but can focus on the more adult titles. Just like Disney, Nintendo doesn't tarnish their image while expanding their demographic. This should be priority #1 to me.

Iwata's philosophy of always innovate and catering towards a casual marketing will be end of Nintendo unless they go 3rd party. Their business strategy is unsustainable in the console market unless they can hit the magic number of $99 where it's an impulse buy.

That's what I would like to see too. But it is a risk. If they bought a bunch of studios and then weren't able to sell the games they'd be in trouble.

The only other thing they can do is to make a super human effort to court third parties.

Nintendo should step down and let Nintendo of America run things instead.

Iwata is just the tip of the iceberg of failing to grasp what a Western-dominated market wants.

If anything, they also need to fire whoever runs third party relations at Nintendo.

Originally Posted by Leondexter

I realize that. But I do hold him responsible for Nintendo's current overall strategy, which is "find a gimmick". Nintendo's mantra, once upon a time, was that making the best games ensured success.

You say that like they aren't still making the best games.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library...d_pl_e1309.pdf

Code:

In millions of yen

--			2009		2010		2011		2012		2013
Net sales		 1,838,622 	 1,434,365 	 1,014,345 	 647,652 	 635,422 
Operating Income	 555,263 	 356,567 	 171,076 	 (37,320)	 (36,410)

In most companies, a prolonged slump like that wouldn't get into its fifth year before major change happened. I grant that maybe things are different in Japan, and different still for Nintendo. But after so long, the CEO usually takes the fall, for better or worse.

If Iwata is to survive January and then FY 2014 (ending in March, financials released late April), then he is going to have to present a turnaround strategy that inspires a high level of confidence in investors. If this quarter is as brutal as I suspect it will be, I don't know if he is given that chance.

Only if he continues to let half the business slowly rot away. He turned the 3DS around, which in retrospect is impressive, but threw the home console market under the bus to do so. He needs to show he can successfully keep two devices full of good games without droughts to keep systems selling.

Originally Posted by Mudkips

Nintendo should step down and let Nintendo of America run things instead.

Iwata is just the tip of the iceberg of failing to grasp what a Western-dominated market wants.

Apart from a not shit online infrastructure, what else? Because I sure as hell don't want Nintendo doing military shooters anytime soon (read as Ever).

Originally Posted by Mudkips

Nintendo should step down and let Nintendo of America run things instead.

Iwata is just the tip of the iceberg of failing to grasp what a Western-dominated market wants.

Best joke of the thread right here.

No, just demoted. Have him be the Official Nintendo Direct Guy.

We may need to expand the chalkboard soon. Anyone wanna chip in to buy another one? We'll call it the Chalkboard U©.

It's really naive to think that stepping down is a solution to every problem. I'm sure a lot of people wanted him to step down after the 3DS launch got rocky. Should a president that has shown that much resilience - in very tough times - step down?

No! Iwata has shown he has great business sense. He has great understanding of both the business side, and also the actual development/programmer side. For every "mistake" people point out, there are tons of successes and wise choices to note as well. Not all of Wii U's problems can be directly linked to Iwata. To be frank, I believe that if Iwata can't turn the Wii U around, no one can.

Iwata's biggest mistake is just keeping Reggie around as a puppet. Put him back in marketing where he has experience. It was fun when Reggie resonated with fans, as someone who enjoys games as much as them. Now, he's been rubbing people the wrong way with his ridiculous PR rhetoric leading up to the launch of Wii U, to present. On top of that, Reggie often strikes me as cluless about anything that goes on behind the scenes, both with 3rd party relations, and within his own company.

Iwata needs someone in the west that understands the need of developers, and the environment needed to entice them. Someone that has a lot of knowledge of projects in the works, both internally and externally. That person is Dan Alderman. Nintendo needs to make him NOA president. This guy gets sh!t done!

Nope, I'm quite satisfied with the current output on both Wii U and 3DS (although the former needs more work). Iwata is not the sole person responsible for recent missteps, just as Tim Cook isn't the sole person responsible for the continued success of Apple.

Originally Posted by ab.aeterno

Only if he continues to let half the business slowly rot away. He turned the 3DS around, which in retrospect is impressive, but threw the home console market under the bus to do so. He needs to show he can successfully keep two devices full of good games without droughts to keep systems selling.

He turned the 3DS around by doing the exact same thing they do on every system- release good games. But that actually works on the 3DS, because it's a portable platform and portable platforms don't get Western third party support anyways. Doing the exact same thing on the Wii U won't have the same effect.

It's the same reason Sony's portables have failed. They have relied on tech and third party support, which matter in the console space but are less important/non-existent in the portable space. When left to their first party exclusives alone, they can't fight Nintendo.

Originally Posted by "D"

I wasn't aware there was one already lol. Mods can lock if its that big a deal.

Are you new to neogaf?