If i work there and have almost unli budget on some project, id do it to.
I wonder how much dough those controller team took. lol
If it was anything more than a team of 6 to make a controller, they are out of their minds.Haven't tried it myself but I'm assuming they wanted to make it better than the 360. Not everyone thinks they succeeded. Some do.
Controller quality is subjective. I myself got so used to the DS3 that I never really felt there was anything wrong with it until people started saying it sucked. Even compared to the DS4 I still prefer it in some ways.
Am I a controller maker? No.
Remember, they already had the 360 and controller S... and other Microsoft hardware on tap. From 90s joysticks (Sidewinder Precision Force Feeback etc) and pads (Sidewinder) on up. This is not even close to new to them. And how many new controllers hit the market every year from smaller companies? Do they all take $100m to design the single final prototype? How many individuals does this team consist of to make that number a reality? If previous hardware already exists, and the actual hardware inside has become very cheap, where is that cost going?
You have no facts, and yet somehow your statement has 100 times more credibility than Microsoft itself. That's frustrating.Originally Posted by RiccochetJ
It really depends on costs they decided to throw in there to come to that number. I think there's a decent bit of propping up numbers. For all we know, they could have also added peoples benefits into that final number.
I wouldn't take it seriously, it's just a big number to throw around. I honestly think that the facilities make up for a huge chunk of that final number, but those facilities are going to be used for a hell of a lot more than just the controller in the grand scheme of things.
Haha.they spent 10 million designing the controller then after the PS4 reveal they spent 90 million on booze for the xbox staff to drink away dat pain
Seriously.Originally Posted by PaulExcellent
Move battery slot.
Make better D-Pad.
Done.
WOW AMAZING SO INNOVATIVE
Last edited by Fantasmo; Yesterday at 04:58 AM.
I have to admit the rumble triggers with Forza is pretty damn cool. Not 100 million cool but pretty cool none the less.
Well, since it was perfect, the amount of money needed to make something perfect even more perfect is increases exponentially according to the Cboat-Bish Monetary Model for moneyhatting R&D.
Play forza = knows where the money went
Play forza = knows where the money went
Last edited by Agent AA1; Yesterday at 05:20 AM.
I'm sure it wasn't spent on quality.. One week of use I have a wobbly LB and a squeaky RT. Excellent!
Right, but they were trying new things. A touchscreen, speakers, smell-o-vision.If it was anything more than a team of 6 to make a controller, they are out of their minds.
Am I a controller maker? No.
Remember, they already had the 360 and controller S... and other Microsoft hardware on tap. From 90s joysticks (Sidewinder Precision Force Feeback etc) and pads (Sidewinder) on up. This is not even close to new to them. And how many new controllers hit the market every year from smaller companies? Do they all take $100m to design the single final prototype? How many individuals does this team consist of to make that number a reality? If previous hardware already exists, and the actual hardware inside has become very cheap, where is that cost going?
xbox s controller dpad is not that good,the xbox one dpad is better for sure.
It costs a lot to perfect perfection. The 360 controller feels cheap, nasty and poor compared the the X1 controller.
Yeah they probably had multiple prototypes with touch screens, touch controls and the smell controller. Dont forget about Kinect, I'm petty sure kinec was part of the 100 million and it went under a lot of prototypes as well.
They already have touchscreens. See Windows Phone/Tablet. Hell Palm/Windows let's go back. Speakers? $2 & some man hours for a driver. Smell-o-vision is total bunk. No one ever wanted it. We've known that for like 50 years with TVs and it was bunk then too. A total lie.Originally Posted by Sobriquet
Right, but they were trying new things. A touchscreen, speakers, smell-o-vision.
possibly because the money was spent on testing other designs and features like smell emitters, touch screens etc etc
then the quality testing, engineering etc etc who knows
having tried one briefly i reckon it feels better and the rumble triggers are perfect imo
it seems like a waste of money but hey, if they wanna burn it up, let 'em
then the quality testing, engineering etc etc who knows
having tried one briefly i reckon it feels better and the rumble triggers are perfect imo
it seems like a waste of money but hey, if they wanna burn it up, let 'em
First class flights to take each prototype to every developer to give feedback on? And a limousine from the airport
They spent the money actually doing quality assurance on their product to make sure the R1 button wouldn't stick and the thumb stick pads wouldn't fall apart after two weeks. Money well spent.
Last edited by Thundercleese; Yesterday at 05:12 AM.
I'm certainly no expert, but a team of 6 people in a company the size of Microsoft, working on something as major as a controller redesign seems like an incredibly small estimate. They are a huge, bloated, billion dollar corporation. They probably have bigger teams than that in charge of researching what kind of toilet paper to buy for the bathrooms in Redmond.If it was anything more than a team of 6 to make a controller, they are out of their minds.
At least Shenmue is something that's looked upon fondly when people reminisce. The Xbox 360 is remembered as "Fucking system got those shitty lights again." Or "My fucking analog stick is drifting again" or my personal favorite "This fucking Dpad is jumping forward. Why can't I do a fucking Hadouken?!"Same way Shen Mue cost $60 million well over a decade ago (about $80 million now). Cigarettes, fast cars, strip clubs, liquor, and drugs all around.
Shenmue= Happy memories
Xbox 360= Angry memories mixed with good times like an ex girlfriend.
Assuming you used the controller and the pad fit your hands and you don't have an agenda, it hit diagonals very well. The dpad was great, certainly much better than the 360 and great anyway even in competing console comparisons. I didn't like the white and black button placement, but the design was perfect for many. I had a friend who preferred the Duke (original) due to his large hands and its large size. If that's your situation I get it. If you enjoyed other styles of games I could also understand not liking it. But that doesn't mean the pad was bad. And no matter what, it was a lot more accurate than the 360 pad. It was great and hit the directions very well. Unless you actually have something to say, enough already with this crap.There's only 4 weeks left until the end of the year.
Not long for someone else to come along and claim the 'WORST POST OF THE YEAR' award from the OP.
I want to see the receipts!Originally Posted by Chuck Norris
First class flights to take each prototype to every developer to give feedback on? And a limousine from the airport
Last edited by Fantasmo; Yesterday at 05:17 AM.
If I remember the story I read was very clear that a lot of the money was spent on all sorts of ideas that never came to be.
I don't have a problem with them spending all that money on r&d for that controller. I love the grips on the analogs, kinda wish the DS4 had the same kind. The ds4s feel kinda like old, burnt, sticky rubber. I also keep hearing that the trigger rumble feature is legit with racers, too bad I'm not really into racers.
Of course I don't! Even shareholders won't get a line by line itemized purchase order that would satisfy you.You have no facts, and yet somehow your statement has 100 times more credibility than Microsoft itself. That's frustrating.
I don't know the size of the staff or their salaries, I don't know the size of the new facilities or all the robotics that are in there, what are Washington's property taxes like btw? Are those facilities even in Washington? I don't know the materials that they were using to prototype!
All I know is that I think you're someone who would have been raging at what the Skullgirls dev team was asking for to create a dlc character.
Edit: And to reiterate, I think the 100 mil is just PR. I think a significant chunk of that 100 mil will roll over into other areas under the MS umbrella.
Last edited by RiccochetJ; Yesterday at 05:23 AM.
What I'm getting at, is not individual salaries, even though I am mentioning it and it is a part of it.. is that it doesn't make sense is any way shape or form that a controller cost them $100m to make unless there was an insane amount of waste. INSANE.Originally Posted by RiccochetJ
Of course I don't! Even shareholders won't get a line by line itemized purchase order that would satisfy you.
I don't know the size of the staff or their salaries, I don't know the size of the new facilities or all the robotics that are in there, what are Washington's property taxes like btw? Are those facilities even in Washington? I don't know the materials that they were using to prototype!
All I know is that I think you're someone who would have been raging at what the Skullgirls dev team was asking for to create a dlc character.
How much do you think cutting edge (because that's what they were then too cuttting edge) joysticks and pads cost in the 80s adjusted for inflation and relative to available parts? Remember all tech prices go down and companies have always used the best parts for the times. Did it cost all those companies (again adjusted for inflation) $100m?
Edit: your edit is where I'm getting at. We have a next gen of consoles here. What I'm getting at is I'm thinking about our next gen of youth. I don't want anyone believing the bullshit coming out. I have ZERO proof but I can guarantee even Nintendo hadn't spent (adjusted for inflation) $100m on the 64 controller, the Wiimote, or the Wii U pad, amazing as they are (don't own em, great tech though). And I'd bet Ballmer's salary that their classic controller certainly didn't cost them $100m. And they're awesome too. And I've used and enjoyed them all.
What I'm getting at, is that I do believe it was creative accounting unless MS is literally pissing away money. However I'm more inclined to believe that certain individuals are kings and money is getting shoved in our face while getting siphoned off somewhere else.
Last edited by Fantasmo; Yesterday at 05:40 AM.
I think its all PR that MS spent this much makeing the controller.
MS been dropping lots of silly PR latley
MS been dropping lots of silly PR latley
Seriously though, why does the X1 controller still have a battery pack? Its 2013, couldn't they have made it rechargable? Im sure the current X1 controller on a rechargable battery will still have a good battery life, the ps3 controller had like 20-30 hours.
Because Eneloops.Seriously though, why does the X1 controller still have a battery pack? Its 2013, couldn't they have made it rechargable? Im sure the current X1 controller on a rechargable battery will still have a good battery life, the ps3 controller had like 20-30 hours.
Though both would've been nice.
I like the xbone controller better than the 360 over all.
I think they are lying the controller didn't cost them that much.
Eneloops are awesome.
$100 million can do.. a lot of things. But I can't imagine a controller costing that. If I was a big investor, I'd immediately ask for receipts. I'm joking because the gif is funny, but I'm serious.
Where did that money go and why isn't anyone asking? Or are they? And is this why Ballmer is leaving?
Not denying anyone that, just the cost.I like the xbone controller better than the 360 over all.
$100 million can do.. a lot of things. But I can't imagine a controller costing that. If I was a big investor, I'd immediately ask for receipts. I'm joking because the gif is funny, but I'm serious.
Where did that money go and why isn't anyone asking? Or are they? And is this why Ballmer is leaving?
Last edited by Fantasmo; Yesterday at 05:47 AM.
What did the controllers in the 80's do? Atari? You had to flick a switch on the console to actually start the game. Nintendo and Sega? It was a binary switch. "Did this person press start?" All while having to be directly plugged in so there was a direct signal.What I'm getting at, is not individual salaries, even though I am mentioning it and it is a part of it.. is that it doesn't make sense is any way shape or form that a controller cost them $100m to make unless there was an insane amount of waste. INSANE.
How much do you think cutting edge (because that's what they were then too cuttting edge) joysticks and pads cost in the 80s adjusted for inflation and relative to available parts? Remember all tech prices go down and companies have always used the best parts for the times. Did it cost all those companies (again adjusted for inflation) $100m?
Edit: your edit is where I'm getting at. We have a next gen of consoles here. What I'm getting at is I'm thinking about our next gen of youth. I don't want anyone believing the bullshit coming out. I have ZERO proof but I can guarantee even Nintendo hadn't spent (adjusted for inflation) $100m on the 64 controller, the Wiimote, or the Wii U pad, amazing as they are (don't own em, great tech though). And I'd bet Ballmer's salary that their classic controller certainly didn't cost them $100m. And they're awesome too. And I've used and enjoyed them all.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii U controller development cost more than the XBox controller. The Wii U controller is amazing. But again, I have no clue how costs are calculated and I think the 100 mil is PR bull.
That 100mil should've been used to boost resolution.
I agree, except the bumpers. They're totes crap.I like the xbone controller better than the 360 over all.
I think it did. It's just that their R&D used the money, didn't make anything that bested the original, and decided to improve on it.Originally Posted by Darkologia
I think they are lying the controller didn't cost them that much.
IS THIS SHIT COMMON?Originally Posted by Douche McBaggins The 3rd
"My fucking analog stick is drifting again"
I HAD TO BUY A NEW 360 CONTROLLER BECAUSE OF THIS
100 millions? let me see..
-overpaid external design company? maybe usd 1-2 millions? ok, let's be crazy, usd 10m
including:
- 1-2 product designers max. usd 100k/year
- 1 3D guy (if above staff can't do 3D). max usd 50k/year
- let say a ridiculous amount of overpriced prototypes... 20? max. usd 20,000 (considering they don't have their own 3D printer)
-for the programming, sourcing of components, etc, they have their guys in-house
We are still far from the claimed development cost. Honestly who ever worked in product development field knows this is insulting bullshit. It is just a basic freaking controller even if the buttons, the design, the feeling or whatever else are nice.
-overpaid external design company? maybe usd 1-2 millions? ok, let's be crazy, usd 10m
including:
- 1-2 product designers max. usd 100k/year
- 1 3D guy (if above staff can't do 3D). max usd 50k/year
- let say a ridiculous amount of overpriced prototypes... 20? max. usd 20,000 (considering they don't have their own 3D printer)
-for the programming, sourcing of components, etc, they have their guys in-house
We are still far from the claimed development cost. Honestly who ever worked in product development field knows this is insulting bullshit. It is just a basic freaking controller even if the buttons, the design, the feeling or whatever else are nice.
I fucking love the XB1 controller. Money well spent.
why do i feel like, if they didn't change the controller a bit people would be criticizing them for not taking risk, saying they played it safe? The X1 controller feels great, the only natural evolution the 360 could take really.
I feel like this is the Skullgirls Indiegogo thread, except even more ignorant and about something with a cosmically higher budget
Controller designers had rumble and analog working since the 90s, wifi since early 2000s, bluetooth for a decade, buttons for over 30 years. It doesn't cost much of anything to iterate on this or make plastic or controllers or software or drivers and its insanely easy to iterate especially on yourself. Microsofts controller hardware goes WAY back and the proof of concepts have already been done. The newest tech here is nearly 10 years old. What are you referring to exactly?Originally Posted by RiccochetJ
What did the controllers in the 80's do? Atari? You had to flick a switch on the console to actually start the game. Nintendo and Sega? It was a binary switch. "Did this person press start?" All while having to be directly plugged in so there was a direct signal.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii U controller development cost more than the XBox controller. The Wii U controller is amazing. But again, I have no clue how costs are calculated and I think the 100 mil is PR bull.
Had a little trouble getting used to the bumpers but now I feel this controller is flawless. It just feels great all around for me. I don't care how much they spent lol.
The first real voice of reason imho. Thank you koziakauzu.Originally Posted by koziakauzu
100 millions? let me see..
-overpaid external design company? maybe usd 1-2 millions? ok, let's be crazy, usd 10m
including:
- 1-2 product designers max. usd 100k/year
- 1 3D guy (if above staff can't do 3D). max usd 50k/year
- let say a ridiculous amount of overpriced prototypes... 20? max. usd 20,000 (considering they don't have their own 3D printer)
-for the programming, sourcing of components, etc, they have their guys in-house
We are still far from the claimed development cost. Honestly who ever worked in product development field knows this is insulting bullshit. It is just a basic freaking controller even if the buttons, the design, the feeling or whatever else are nice.
The rest of you are getting a lot of extra homework tonight, no dessert, and a quiz on Monday.
Right. Because every (any???) gaming company adjusted for inflation in the past thirty years has had to spend a small country's entire gross domestic product in creating a controller.Originally Posted by BronsonLee
I feel like this is the Skullgirls Indiegogo thread, except even more ignorant and about something with a cosmically higher budget
Last edited by Fantasmo; Yesterday at 06:11 AM.
It doesn't cost much to iterate on software or drivers or different signals provided by Wifi or Blutooth or any of the advances that have been made in the past 20 years?Controller designers had rumble and analog working since the 90s, wifi since early 2000s, bluetooth for a decade, buttons for over 30 years. It doesn't cost much of anything to iterate on this or make plastic or controllers or software or drivers and its insanely easy to iterate especially on yourself. Microsofts controller hardware goes WAY back and the proof of concepts have already been done. The newest tech here is nearly 10 years old. What are you referring to exactly?
I'm curious... how much do you think it costs to 'iterate'?
Oh, we're throwing hands now? OK.The first real voice of reason imho. Thank you koziakauzu.
The rest of you are getting a lot of extra homework tonight, no dessert, and a quiz on Monday.
Right. Because every (any???) gaming company adjusted for inflation in the past thirty years has had to spend a small country's entire gross domestic product in creating a controller.
I love that the voice of reason A: is the guy agreeing with you B: handwaved a whole lot of the probable costs of that thing and C: thinks that Microsoft would only use 3 people to create the controller for their billion dollar console
Sure the number is fudged, but come on. Don't be daft.
Normally I'd leave it be, but you seem to think this is a goddamn groundbreaking and gamechanging thing when it's really the musings of an idiot. Either way, I don't feel like playing.
Last edited by BronsonLee; Yesterday at 06:17 AM.
I actually like the feel of the Xbox One better. Same goes for the triggers. I'd add the 360 bumpers though and while I like the texture of the new sticks, I'd prefer the tightness of the 360 sticks.
Nothing beats the goat Duke controller though. Would love that to come back lol
Nothing beats the goat Duke controller though. Would love that to come back lol
But you're just making up figures. I can explain anything if i just invent the data.Originally Posted by koziakauzu
100 millions? let me see..
-overpaid external design company? maybe usd 1-2 millions? ok, let's be crazy, usd 10m
including:
- 1-2 product designers max. usd 100k/year
- 1 3D guy (if above staff can't do 3D). max usd 50k/year
- let say a ridiculous amount of overpriced prototypes... 20? max. usd 20,000 (considering they don't have their own 3D printer)
-for the programming, sourcing of components, etc, they have their guys in-house
We are still far from the claimed development cost. Honestly who ever worked in product development field knows this is insulting bullshit. It is just a basic freaking controller even if the buttons, the design, the feeling or whatever else are nice.
I can do it too: 100 designers each making 25k for three years, plus 5 leads making 500k for three years, plus outsourcing costs for denim for the jean controller at 23 million, and 465 bloodhound dissections for the smell-o-vision at €7096 each...
It's all nonsense, you can't simply invet numbers to suit your argument.
I saw the number again tonight and had a thought. Why does everything have to be a weenie waving contest? I'm not trying to win any support. You can forget about me whenever you want, be my guest and that goes for anyone.Originally Posted by BronsonLee
Oh, we're throwing hands now? OK.
I love that the voice of reason A: is the guy agreeing with you B: handwaved a whole lot of the probable costs of that thing and C: thinks that Microsoft would only use 3 people to create the controller for their billion dollar console
Sure the number is fudged, but come on. Don't be daft.
Normally I'd leave it be, but you seem to think this is a goddamn groundbreaking and gamechanging thing when it's really the musings of an idiot.
You really don't think Nintendo or Sony would throw around numbers like that if they were true for themselves? Especially Nintendo with the Wii? I wouldn't hesitate to guess that Nintendo's controller team is probably small yet effective. FURTHERMORE, this is not a console war or console controller war thread. I have no stake in that game having owned multiple consoles and computers from multiple manufacturers over the years. I hate Microsoft's shift from power console to weaker and the DRM turn, from the great 360 and I hate Live, but I can know when something is great which is why I owned both the Xbox and the 360 and I still run Windows. I just find it very hard to believe that number was even close to being hit in regards to the controller. It bothers me. That number is absolutely insane. And if it was that big, it was either a total total waste, or as mentioned already creative accounting. It simply doesn't sound right. It doesn't make sense, and it doesn't add up. It's a controller. It's made of plastic. It takes smart people to make, but that tech is cheap readily available and has been for some time. Quite some time. Do you realize how big $100 million is?
Last edited by Fantasmo; Yesterday at 06:30 AM.
The dpad is beyond awful. Hate that portion even worse than 360's.
The XB1 controller is better though. I'm back at school with my 360 and the controller just feels big and bulky in my hands.
I agree the original Xbox Dpad was good. Dunno how they made the 360's worse after that. As for the new one I'm still not sure if I'd say it's better than the 360's. I like some things about it, dislike other things. The Dpad is really good, I like the general feel of the controller, buttons are good. The sticks feel too loose though and I'm not a fan of how you have to press the bumpers from the side. I will say I'm glad they stuck with AA's though. Had the same Eneloops in there since launch, while I had to charge my PS4 controller after the first day.
After a week of using it, I do like it more than the 360 controller now. I consider it better than the DS4 only in terms of the asymmetrical analogue placement, which is more a matter of personal preference for shooters than an argument for being a better design overall. I do think both controllers are a major step up from their predecessors, however. Going back and forth between the DS4 and BONEpad is alot less jarring, for me, than 360 ->DS3, for example.
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