err.. no, it still sucks.I probably should have made this thread months ago but I didn't think to so if its been beaten to death please lock. Its not a troll thread, but that kind of number just doesn't make sense.
The 360 controller was near flawless. The S controller had a perfect D-pad.
So... take the 360 controller, put the Controller S D-pad on and do the circuitry you crazy engineers!
Voila, done.
Am I missing something?
Where did that money go?
100 million isnt really THAT much of the entire r and d for a new console
They could probably just bundle in the rechargable pack and call it a day. Given how much the PS3 threw in over the XB1 controller I think it'd help justify costing $60 anyway, though I guess they need to recoup for all of those wasted prototypes or whatever.agreed. folks not on the eneloop train need to get with it.
perfect would be a li-ion/poly pack that drops in the same slot...assume something like that is what you mean by both, with usb charge.
Huh, I didn't find a REAL XB1 to play on but I found the controller out on display, and though the D-Pad felt pretty good, like they saw that people loved the Vita D-Pad and jumped in on that (though it seemed Sony didn't pay full attention to that but matched or surpassed it anyway), maybe I'll feel differently if I get to play some 2D platformers or fighting games on it.The dpad is beyond awful. Hate that portion even worse than 360's.
Hate the new tops of the sticks though, the ring between the cup (top edge of the cup?) and the bumper area is too high up and it feels like the sticks are too small yet deep of cups for my thumbs. At a minimum I'd like that top ring smoothed out, shortened, whatever. And while I'd have less trouble with the bumpers than some seem to (I'd press them with the inside joints of my fingers at the outer edge of the bumpers) it still feels a bit too stiff that way. It's kind of like they transferred how the old D-Pad was awful to the bumpers.
Not talking about the console, but the controller. **sigh**100 million isnt really THAT much of the entire r and d for a new console
Did you read the thread? Because I'm talking about this D-Pad:You're kidding right? The D-Pad on the X360 controller was fucking atrocious, absolutely hated it. I'm using a PS4 controller now and it's a million miles better.
Last edited by Fantasmo; Yesterday at 06:45 AM.
Hopefully I've just got a lemon but any move with diagonals only comes out maybe 50% of the time. For a fast paced game like KI it's suicide. It's gotten so bad that I exclusively play with Sabrewulf now because his moves are back/forwards and nothing dealing with a quarter circle. .
The dpad got shittier but my god that trigger rumble adds a whole new level of immersion to the games that use it so far.....i also noticed the top of the control as some sort of infra-red thing..dont know whats its for but they have added all of this and the battery life is still as good as the 360s
The S dpad was far from perfect. Still terrible and on a floating disc.
Really all they needed to do was fix the dpad, maybe make the overall buttons feel better, vibrating triggers and tighter sticks. Boom, perfect controller again.
How they managed to blow their budget on 100 million is staggering for a controller.
Maybe they where experimenting with more riskier attempts such as a trackball in place of a right stick or interchangeable faces and decided that the 360 was good enough?
I'm curious how much Sony spent developing the DS4, I wish they would tell us.
Yeah, just fix the D-Pad & maybe add the rumble triggers, perfect controller.
Instead they loused it up by making the analog sticks & bumpers inferior. For all the shit people gave them on the D-Pad, while it's better, it still isn't on-par with the best past controllers of other systems.
The shape of the controller also is less comfortable to hold.
$100 million to make a wholly inferior product, that's MS for you.
I refuse to believe they spent $100m on the new controller design.
I mean, I like how it feels, but I've already vented enough about the dpad and bumper buttons so I won't get into it again. The controller works really well for racing and fps games, and is just as bad as it was (if not worse) for fighting games on the 360 pad.
I mean, I like how it feels, but I've already vented enough about the dpad and bumper buttons so I won't get into it again. The controller works really well for racing and fps games, and is just as bad as it was (if not worse) for fighting games on the 360 pad.
The number is supposed to show how much MS cares for gaming and the gamer. It served its purpose and it was probably quite inflated as budgets usually are when they're used for PR.
Yes it's very common. Everyone I knew had their analog sticks drift eventually. However, the biggest games that cause drifting are.Originally Posted by PaulExcellent
IS THIS SHIT COMMON?
I HAD TO BUY A NEW 360 CONTROLLER BECAUSE OF THIS
Fight Night series
Call of Duty series
Halo series
Those are the most common for people who have drifting analog sticks. I'd also throw in Forza and Project Gotham racing caused a lot of drift for those who were heavy players.
Just like everything else with the Xbone, they took something that worked, invested hundreds of millions into useless shit and instead of improving the one thing that didn't work well, they proceeded to fuck up the shit that worked great, and ended up with something worse than they started out with.
Why?
Because it was made by someone else under some other vision, and fuck them if they would not change it, even if it meant changing it into something that's shittier. It hat to be their shit. Because I bet their shit smells like flowers to them.
Fuck the Xbone.
I can't believe how much it gets on my nerves. How have you managed to do this to me Microsoft? Seriously? It's like I'm re-living the 90s and my hatred of you during the Win98/Me period..
Why?
Because it was made by someone else under some other vision, and fuck them if they would not change it, even if it meant changing it into something that's shittier. It hat to be their shit. Because I bet their shit smells like flowers to them.
Fuck the Xbone.
I can't believe how much it gets on my nerves. How have you managed to do this to me Microsoft? Seriously? It's like I'm re-living the 90s and my hatred of you during the Win98/Me period..
Just imagine how much they had to spend to make those controllers then!
;P
;P
It did, I played fighting games on it easily and you could hit diagonals, just stop.
Quit with the exaggeration. The 360 pad was near perfect with a bad d-pad. This is not a comparison thread/status contest. Playstation, Nintendo, Commodore 64, Atari 7800, I don't care who is better. The 360 one with a good d-pad is a great pad. For the cheap seats, this is not a comparison thread/status contest.
You're being oddly hostile.There's no way they made a smell controller. If you believe that I have bridge to sell you. And if I was told to make that, I'd laugh all the way to Monster.com and tell Microsoft investors what was going on somehow.
I'm not denying that.
Does anyone realize how much $100m is?
Is the S-controller's d-pad really all that good? It looks like the 360's d-pad with a slightly different shape on the directional bits. It at least looks like it'd have the same fundamental flaws as the 360 pad.
That said, I've also been left wandering why they spent all that money to concoct this controller that's received mixed reception when they could've just fixed the d-pad, nix the battery hump, maybe find some other minor little niggling things to fix/tweak that I can't think of right now, and be left with a controller that would likely be hailed as the second coming of controller-christ at a fraction of the R&D cost.
That said, I've also been left wandering why they spent all that money to concoct this controller that's received mixed reception when they could've just fixed the d-pad, nix the battery hump, maybe find some other minor little niggling things to fix/tweak that I can't think of right now, and be left with a controller that would likely be hailed as the second coming of controller-christ at a fraction of the R&D cost.
Heh, I had drift to some extent on older DualShocks (DualShock 1 at least, maybe DualShock 2) but that seemed to always fix itself with a quick spin and only happened in a few games. But I probably need to look into this because I'm thinking of what's probably a small deadzone and the stick being loosened so it can just barely register for some games, where games made for newer DualShocks likely knew this was a common problem and had a larger dead zone to compensate.Originally Posted by Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Yes it's very common. Everyone I knew had their analog sticks drift eventually. However, the biggest games that cause drifting are.
Fight Night series
Call of Duty series
Halo series
Those are the most common for people who have drifting analog sticks. I'd also throw in Forza and Project Gotham racing caused a lot of drift for those who were heavy players.
The S-controller's D-Pad didn't keep hitting the damn edges of the casing, so that alone made it vastly superior to the 360 one.Originally Posted by Finalizer
Is the S-controller's d-pad really all that good? It looks like the 360's d-pad with a slightly different shape on the directional bits. It at least looks like it'd have the same fundamental flaws as the 360 pad.
That said, I've also been left wandering why they spent all that money to concoct this controller that's received mixed reception when they could've just fixed the d-pad, nix the battery hump, maybe find some other minor little niggling things to fix/tweak that I can't think of right now, and be left with a controller that would likely be hailed as the second coming of controller-christ at a fraction of the R&D cost.
But I didn't consider it great, just one that did its job well enough.
The 360's d-pad has the same basic setup as the legendary Saturn d-pad, it's just sitting on top of a huge rocker/piston mechanism instead of being right over the relevant contacts like the Saturn.Originally Posted by Finalizer
Is the S-controller's d-pad really all that good? It looks like the 360's d-pad with a slightly different shape on the directional bits. It at least looks like it'd have the same fundamental flaws as the 360 pad.
That said, I've also been left wandering why they spent all that money to concoct this controller that's received mixed reception when they could've just fixed the d-pad, nix the battery hump, maybe find some other minor little niggling things to fix/tweak that I can't think of right now, and be left with a controller that would likely be hailed as the second coming of controller-christ at a fraction of the R&D cost.
It would take surprisingly few design adjustments to make it really, really good: They could just get rid of the plastic "well" that surrounds it and add a little d-pad PCB that connects to the main one via ribbon cable. Slightly more complex and expensive, but there would be a massive increase in usefulness.
I played countless hours of Third strike on the Controller-S D-pad and loved it.
Actually, the Controller-S gamepad is possibly the best gamepad ever made. If only it had shoulder buttons instead of white/black (which work really well for games like Third Strike but not so much for modern games designed around readily accessable shoulder buttons)
Actually, the Controller-S gamepad is possibly the best gamepad ever made. If only it had shoulder buttons instead of white/black (which work really well for games like Third Strike but not so much for modern games designed around readily accessable shoulder buttons)
Last edited by hooijdonk17; Yesterday at 08:42 AM.
Yeah I've got a feeling you know nothing about designing a controller.$100m when a team of 4 could have prototyped for 8 years. Figure $100k/year each + $200k/year on making various controllers = $2.4million.
Double the figure if you want.
Tripling it is waste but go ahead.
That's still a little shy of $100m.
The 360s pad was almost perfect for me. The d pad was horrid, but that aside I can't fault it. Sturdy, comfortable to hold, great triggers and bumpers, great thumsticks. The X1s pad, from the little I've played of it admittedly, simply doesn't hit the same heights. The bumpers feel especially odd to me, as do the thumbsticks. Things feel looser somehow. To others however these things may be an improvement, controllers have different pros and cons for every gamer after all.
Honestly just axing that stupid damn wall probably would've made the D-Pad 10 times better, look at how common people would sand down the edges and make it work better. Yet Microsoft spent more time designing a fragile transforming D-Pad rather than just making either a subtle or blatant change like that and calling it a day.It would take surprisingly few design adjustments to make it really, really good: They could just get rid of the plastic "well" that surrounds it and add a little d-pad PCB that connects to the main one via ribbon cable. Slightly more complex and expensive, but there would be a massive increase in usefulness.
Maybe they had their reasons, but it just seems like Microsoft being Microsoft.
i like it way more no compliments here both controllers feel good to me
Exactly. I literally do not get how they got to $100m.$100m when a team of 4 could have prototyped for 8 years. Figure $100k/year each + $200k/year on making various controllers = $2.4million.
Double the figure if you want.
Tripling it is waste but go ahead.
That's still a little shy of $100m.
What is he missing? It all comes down to salary, man hours, materials, and constructing prototypes. None of those things suggest a price tag of $100m.Originally Posted by curlyfriski
Yeah I've got a feeling you know nothing about designing a controller.
IMO the One's dpad is much better, but the sticks and the bumpers are worse.
Overall a step back, but it's still a good controller. But going from the best to second best this gen is a mistake, $100mil or not.
Overall a step back, but it's still a good controller. But going from the best to second best this gen is a mistake, $100mil or not.
I held the x360 pad last night and felt so cheap in comparison, I can't go back. Xbox One pad is sublime
One of the thousand and one nights spent by MS staff to make good use of the budget :
MS loves semi-made up (inflated) figures in their PR material. They also go on and on about the number of hours people have put into a game, how many zombies were killed in another game, etc.Originally Posted by Marshall Lee
i kinda doubt that they actually spent 100m
it sounds like something you just to make up to make your product sound cool
I had a feeling it wasn't all that crash hot. I remember watching the thread with that in depth video about how amazing the 100 million dollars controller was, I so ignorantly stated 'it looks the same...' but the reaction was not 'the emperor is naked!'
I like both the controllers (PS4 & Xbox One), but those bumpers on the Xbox One controller are really WTF? I have big hands and those things are just placed in a very weird way.
He is making up figures which he has no clue about. does he have any prior knowledge of what goes into making a controller? If so, then I'll admit I was wrong. At the moment he seems like those people in that awful skullgirls thread who knew nothing about what went into making a fighting game but still felt compelled to complain about how wasteful the devs were with their budget.Originally Posted by foxtrot3d
Exactly. I literally do not get how they got to $100m.
What is he missing? It all comes down to salary, man hours, materials, and constructing prototypes. None of those things suggest a price tag of $100m.
Perfect d-pad on the 's' 360 controller? lol
Yes, not much in terms of R&D on a multi-billion dollar product. Especially considering the controller is one of the most important aspects of a console.Does anyone realize how much $100m is?
If you don't invest in some decent R&D, then you end up with something like this:
It really does. Heavy and the buttons feel really cheap.I held the x360 pad last night and felt so cheap in comparison, I can't go back. Xbox One pad is sublime
The Xbox One controller is an improvement in every way though I admit to not liking the bumpers at first. That was because I previously used my fingertips to hit the bumpers. I don't do that anymore; my fingers now completely go over the bumpers.
The controller is pretty much perfect to me now.
That's what you would have done, not what they did obviously (and fortunately, because your choice was just "keep the same features and don't evolve the controller", even Sony added features to its DS although the design barely changed in 3 generations).So... take the 360 controller, put the Controller S D-pad on and do the circuitry you crazy engineers!
Voila, done.
Am I missing something?
Where did that money go?
I have no idea how many millions it's worth, but there are many changes in the X1 controller that required some work, so costed money :
- IR light emitters on the top and on the front to be tracked by kinect (and maybe other device in the future)
- enhanced wifi communication (IIRC)
- enhanced sound quality for the headset port
- general redesign of the controller (buttons, triggers, bumpers, battery case, sticks, guide button... well, everything).
- rumble triggers
And that's only the features that made the final cut. There was a lot of experimentation and prototyping beforehand, that also costs money. In the end I don't see it as a bad thing that they've been thoroughly studying the controller, which is an essential part to enjoy (most) games.
The same place they got the 50 million man hours spent getting the console to this point.
Certainly doesn't seem to line up with their financials, unless they pay peanuts. On second thoughts, some of their decisions could have been made by monkeys...
Certainly doesn't seem to line up with their financials, unless they pay peanuts. On second thoughts, some of their decisions could have been made by monkeys...
Paid off imo. Sticks don't degrade and the battery life is longer than 8 hours for starters.
Shiet.Originally Posted by Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Yes it's very common. Everyone I knew had their analog sticks drift eventually. However, the biggest games that cause drifting are.
Fight Night series
Call of Duty series
Halo series
Those are the most common for people who have drifting analog sticks. I'd also throw in Forza and Project Gotham racing caused a lot of drift for those who were heavy players.
I'm pretty sure COD:BLOPS2 and UMvC3/P4A might have something to do with it on my case :/
Umm this is how it cost 100 Mill to makeI probably should have made this thread months ago but I didn't think to so if its been beaten to death please lock. Its not a troll thread, but that kind of number just doesn't make sense.
The 360 controller was near flawless. The S controller had a perfect D-pad.
So... take the 360 controller, put the Controller S D-pad on and do the circuitry you crazy engineers!
Voila, done.
Am I missing something?
Where did that money go?
http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/18/th...t-1-exclusive/
In this thread, along with so many others on this forum, it really shows that a lot of people here dont have a clue about business or economics.Umm this is how it cost 100 Mill to make
http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/18/th...t-1-exclusive/
"Just change the Dpad! Voila! Done!" - they dont realise what goes into making this relatively simple vision a reality. The extensive mockups, testing, designs and redesigns that need to happen in order to get the finished product.
This article was good - thanks for posting it.
i have used both and X1 controller is definitely a downgrade
The sticks are way to loose and there also higher,the bumpers dont work as well as it did on the 360 and the dpad is a little to clicky.
The sticks are way to loose and there also higher,the bumpers dont work as well as it did on the 360 and the dpad is a little to clicky.
If all they had done was changed the d-pad it would be great. The controller right now... meh, i consider it worse than the 360/DS4.
Quite a lot of money wasted apparently, the bumpers really aren't well thought out they're just very awkward and don't work too well. I can't say I'm convinced the sticks are better either.
The expend it on research and tests. Trial and error etc...
d pad ... improved rumble ... plus prototypying didnt one of them (sony ms steam even have a prototype with "fragrances")
It's an extraordinary sum, and if they actually managed to spend that much they should be ashamed of it and never mention it. The numbers just don't add up. From what I know
- R&D and tooling for consumer electronics products much more complex than this is $10-30M, which includes both salaries for 100+ engineers, their tools and equipment plus the creation of final manufacturing line
- Qual research with a few hundred respondents globally is around $200K
- Commissioning 3D printed and hand detailed appearance models sets you back between $5-10K
So to land to $100M you would have needed to have three different commercial scale programs with a total of some 600 engineers and 3 alternative mass manufacturing grade production lines ready to go PLUS have some 20.000 people in qual sessions globally PLUS commission about 1000 detailed 3D printed appearance models.
To do that much work and get to rumbling triggers and better grip sticks surely is not a thing to be proud of.
- R&D and tooling for consumer electronics products much more complex than this is $10-30M, which includes both salaries for 100+ engineers, their tools and equipment plus the creation of final manufacturing line
- Qual research with a few hundred respondents globally is around $200K
- Commissioning 3D printed and hand detailed appearance models sets you back between $5-10K
So to land to $100M you would have needed to have three different commercial scale programs with a total of some 600 engineers and 3 alternative mass manufacturing grade production lines ready to go PLUS have some 20.000 people in qual sessions globally PLUS commission about 1000 detailed 3D printed appearance models.
To do that much work and get to rumbling triggers and better grip sticks surely is not a thing to be proud of.
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