NeoGAF

Its a simple enough question. Its a f2p game. Why is it not on consoles yet? It would be an easy way for valve to try and compete with lol. Its not like a typical rts which is highly dependent on a mouse and keyboard. It has essentially 4 buttons for the abilities . An attack a deny button and item prompts. It can't be too hard to port over we have 8 (four face buttons 4 shoulder buttons) plus a touchpad on the ps4?

Im not a dota noob. I'm pretty decent at it . Have been at it since 2006 and I know some heros like chen and some of the more complicated abilities can need something a bit further than the regular four button prompt like say using mercurials teleport or some of the other minimap abilities etc. But the vast majority of heros can be shifted over easily. And on a pub or actually competitive level unless the metagame has changed a lot over the past 5 months i've not followed it heros like chen missing wont spoil the balance.

Also if anything a new console gen is the best place to start out . F2p lots of new ppl will try it ... it might even end up with a non super anti noob community because most of the console players will be new . The pc regulars wont shift until later etc.

VS

I think Guardian of Middle Earth was just that, a console dota clone. It bombed hard.

Originally Posted by NewGame

VS

And we are done.

First post nails it. Sorry bro, but Dota and other mobas wouldn't get anywhere outside of PC.

NewGame I post a 1000000x1000000 pixel image of the Steambox controller. Edit: Its in quotes now...phew

Okay more seriously. Valve wants to keep people and money in an ecosystem where it gets 100% rather than having to pay a middleman (Microsoft or Sony). This reminds me, TF2 on PS3/XB360...they're still pre-hats, right? If so that is another reason, they will not provide the same level of support.

Originally Posted by Darth Zandatsu

And we are done.

That doesn't prove anything. There are 16 buttons on that diagram, and there are 16 buttons on a 360 pad. between that and radial menus it could be made to work.

Originally Posted by NewGame

VS

M/KB support = problem solved.

Well not all will be using that, but its a start.

I very rarely play MOBA's, but from what I've played, it would be insanely difficult to play one without a mouse. Instantly clicking on the minimap and what not just cannot be replaced by a gamepad.

Originally Posted by Ishan

Its not like a typical rts which is highly dependent on a mouse and keyboard.

Uh...actually it is dependent on m/kb, porting it to consoles means valve gonna have to change the control schemes. And unlike MMO, the game depends on precision alot.

Originally Posted by Pudge

That doesn't prove anything. There are 16 buttons on that diagram, and there are 16 buttons on a 360 pad. between that and radial menus it could be made to work.

Quoting for those that ignore this.

Originally Posted by Ishan

Im not a dota noob. I'm pretty decent at it . Have been at it since 2006 and I know some heros like chen

Guardians of Middle Earth was designed to be played on consoles, and that was a contributor to it being crappy. DotA requires way too many buttons, as well as customization to be playable. For Chen - among others - things like controlling or grouping multiple units would be ridiculously hard if not impossible. Then there's item management + assigning hotkeys. Etc, etc. If you're actually a decent DotA player, just take a look at how many keys you actually use when playing, and then try and figure out how that'd work on a controller.

Playing a MOBA with a controller would be fucking awful.

Originally Posted by NewGame

VS

circle, partol, hold stop I dont use at all. I know some ppl use stop to while waiting to last hit . I just move somewhere close to where i am. (just constantly clicking near my hero) ... inventory hotkeys are useful yes. However how many of dota items are active and how many are passive. Even many a times hero abilities are atleast one passive. With a little effort I feel it can be ported. Plus the ps4 has the touchpad ... And this is not even getting into using the dpad . Which gives a whole new 4 buttons .

Originally Posted by Pudge

That doesn't prove anything. There are 16 buttons on that diagram, and there are 16 buttons on a 360 pad. between that and radial menus it could be made to work.

shift queue, pings and other things that makes controller not practical enough

Originally Posted by Radec

M/KB support = problem solved.

Well not all will be using that, but its a start.

basically it needs that

Aside from controls problem, F2P games need constant updates, and delivering patches on PS360 is a chore (fees, QA, etc.). If new consoles allow the devs to update their games as much as they like, the controls can be reworked. Not that the Dota fanbase will ever leave PC, it would be better to simply create a similar game tuned to consoles. Just like Quake 3 doesn't work on consoles, but CoD does.

Because practically all slightly advanced tactics like attack move, denying, strategic imprisonment etc all require fast and precise aiming that is very unlikely on a console?

Also there are there can be a maximum of 5 skills and 1 ultimate on a hero (eg Doom after devouring a dark troll). Add to that buttons to manage your hero as well as summoned units, buttons to select and do stuff on your courier, buttons to use glyph, att move stop buttons, 6 item slots all of which must be capable of being used in split seconds.

Basically it means you don't have enough buttons, and if you chose to force players to scroll through items/skills/movement, you will never be able to achieve even medium-level play. It basically makes the game nigh unplayable.

Maybe don't ignore

Guardians of middle Earth
Awesomenauts
MNC
Rachet and Clank Full Frontal Assault

If you console owners don't show interest then why should pubs?

You could map those commands to a controller, and have the level up and have macros with a pad too. FFXI and FFXIV does it well and those are mmos with a ton of button commands. On PC I play them both with a controller. As for this style of game it works well also, move your character with the analog and attack.

I think the new Blizzard moba has a good chance to be on consoles, they did managed to make Diablo work on the console.

The DS4 has 10 buttons along with the Dpad as buttons and the Trackpad. Not to mention the motion sensor thing (like on the pop up keyboard). MOBAs are definitely do-able , If someone figures out a good way to map everything. But there is noway you would be able to compete with a Mouse/KB player.

Maybe they could do it UT3 style. Where you can select what type of players you want to play against.

Originally Posted by ZeroX03

Guardians of Middle Earth was designed to be played on consoles, and that was a contributor to it being crappy. DotA requires way too many buttons, as well as customization to be playable. For Chen - among others - things like controlling or grouping multiple units would be ridiculously hard if not impossible. Then there's item management + assigning hotkeys. Etc, etc. If you're actually a decent DotA player, just take a look at how many keys you actually use when playing, and then try and figure out how that'd work on a controller.

Hmm, I'll pay attention the next time i play it. Possibly I am using a bunch more inherently without noticing. But I just see quite a bit of potential for a port. Havent seen guardians of middle earth . Will read up on it.

Also Someone also posted precision is important. Yes here I agree. But I personally felt console fps's couldnt be precise enough because the mouse was way more accurate for aiming and look what halo and cod ushered in.

I haven't played much DOTA, you mainly control one character right?

I'm not saying that Valve SHOULD port DOTA2 over to consoles, I'm just saying that it's totally possible. Guardians of Middle Earth has just about everything DOTA has in it, and it plays perfectly fine.

Middle Earth failed because it was a paid product in a genre that's expected to be F2P and it got very little support compared to other games in the genre. It's almost foolish to think that someone isn't going to try a F2P Console MOBA this generation, and I think they have a great chance of taking advantage of the hole in the marketplace.

I'd love it if Valve can bring it to PS4. I have a friend who adores it, it's all he plays (CS Source used to be his thing). As I've never had a PC that could run either game smoothly, I've never been able to share his passion.

Blizzard's dota clone might end up on consoles, but dota2/lol are too complicated mechanically for consoles

Why port a PC game that will never work as well on consoles instead of making some Dota-lite game specifically made for the limitations of the console platforms?

Originally Posted by x3r0123

shift queue, pings and other things that makes controller not practical enough



basically it needs that

Agree. I'm not saying a console player with a ps4 controller will be able to que up full on combos or take on navi. What I am saying it for most casuals / someone decent players who aren't relying on clan level coordination it can be an option valve should explore.

I honestly thing they've have missed a trick by not releasing it on console. Allow people to use keyboard and mouse.

I thought League of Legends would be first on console.

i can't think of a more non-console game than dota. or at least not off the top of my head

if the demand was there i'm sure they could make it work though

Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

I haven't played much DOTA, you mainly control one character right?

yes. It depends on your hero and items but about 80% to 85% of people its one character.

I also thought it would not work but seeing how diablo control scheme works in consoles I don't see why not.

There would still need to be separate servers but I think it would be great.

PS4s are expensive in Brazil.

Originally Posted by Forkball

PS4s are expensive in Brazil.

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

Originally Posted by NewGame

VS

Originally Posted by Forkball

PS4s are expensive in Brazil.

heuehuehuehuehuehuehue

You could design a moba to be played with a gamepad, but it either wouldn't be Dota or it would be a very crappy version of it. I guess console gamers who refuse to ever play PC games wouldn't know that they are playing a crappy version so maybe it would still be possible like with console RTS games.

Originally Posted by Forkball

PS4s are expensive in Brazil.

Originally Posted by Pudge

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

Oh my god!

Originally Posted by Pudge

That doesn't prove anything. There are 16 buttons on that diagram, and there are 16 buttons on a 360 pad. between that and radial menus it could be made to work.

There are 17 buttons on that diagram, and there are 6 more that aren't shown on the mouse (left-click, right click, the other four item slots).

That's not to say that every one of those buttons is absolutely necessary, or that a simplified MOBA is unworkable. But Dota 2 isn't coming to consoles for a good reason.

I think valve tried to play it with their controller, they said something like: "you can play with a controller, you just can't win."

I don't think it's possible to play this game effectively without m/kb.

Originally Posted by Enkidu

You could design a moba to be played with a gamepad, but it either wouldn't be Dota or it would be a very crappy version of it. I guess console gamers who refuse to ever play PC games wouldn't know that they are playing a crappy version so maybe it would still be possible like with console RTS games.

They'd know, there's a reason why that console RTS push bombed last generation.

Because controlling it with an xbox controller would be a nightmare.

i think Smite can be ported to consoles, control scheme there is much closer to tps games than in dota or LoL.

Originally Posted by Forkball

PS4s are expensive in Brazil.

Originally Posted by Pudge

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

Originally Posted by Iseeyou

heuehuehuehuehuehuehue

Originally Posted by Atraveller

Oh my god!

Precision movement is a huge part of the game. Can't be replicated with sticks or touchpads.

I tried to come up with a good controller profile for the Steam controller and couldn't do it. Compromises would definitely have to be made, I think.

That said, Guardians of Middle Earth tried putting an almost-proper moba on consoles, only with some mechanics dumbed down and many of the intricacies gone (basically making it more League of Legends than Dota). I don't know how well it did financially, but I don't think it's a particularly good game.

Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

I haven't played much DOTA, you mainly control one character right?

Yup. There are a handful of heroes who will give you additional minions to control, but for the majority, we're talking one character.

Originally Posted by Ploid 3.0

As for this style of game it works well also, move your character with the analog and attack.

Not good enough. You must be able to look at different areas of the map independent of your hero and perhaps check enemy heroes' items. Example of application is to take creep aggro with axe. Simply att click on an enemy hero on any spot on the map and immediately hit stops. Creeps will aggro to you.

Heres a list of buttons needed:
Select your hero - 1
Select all units, only summoned units - 2 (possibly more to include control groups)
Skills - 5
Items - 6
Attack, Move, Stop - 3 (there are others but not really used)
Scoreboard etc - minimum 2 (1 to bring up or close, another to cycle through)
Courier (select, take item, return item, speed boost, deliver item, go to secret shop) - 6 (minimum 5)
Queueing actions - 1
Auto buy - 1
1 analog stick for moving your vision around, another to move your selector around? If not you need dedicated buttons for shop, glyph, buy queue up

Conclusion: at least 26 buttons and 2 sticks