Maybe one day someone will pull a bungie and simplify the genre enough for it to be played on gamepads by making the game aim for you and making it slow as hell so everyone and their grandma can play. Then we get to have another decade of poor wannabes and a genre that is a shell of what it once was. Can't wait!
if you want to play them, why not just play them on PC?
that "it takes a $5000 PC to upgrade every month!" argument doesn't really apply to these games.
I really would not be surprised if cert was enough of a pain for them to write of a console port entirely.Wrong. Consoles have been and are capable of supporting M&KB if the developer chooses. But Valve doesn't really have any intentions of supporting consoles beyond L4D/Portal it seems.
We get like 3 patches on patch day. The main patch followed by various fixes.
Dota 2 at least requires a PC from this decade. Something with an integrated GPU from the last 5 years would run it at minimum.Originally Posted by Omega Rex
Dota and LoL can probably be played on computers from 1999.
if you want to play them, why not just play them on PC?
that "it takes a $5000 PC to upgrade every month!" argument doesn't really apply to these games.
In a console version, they could just change movement to the analog stick and click targeting to free targeting.
Aka what's the point?
How is it terrible design? If anything sales have shown this is preferable to analog movement. Almost all successful ARPG's are on PC with mouse movement.My biggest gripe with Dota style games is that fact that they are basically action games that use a point to click movement mechanic. That's fucking terrible design.
In a console version, they could just change movement to the analog stick and click targeting to free targeting.
watMy biggest gripe with Dota style games is that fact that they are basically action games that use a point to click movement mechanic. That's fucking terrible design.
In a console version, they could just change movement to the analog stick and click targeting to free targeting.
The whole game is designed around mouse controls, not just movements. Making a "DOTA for dummies" on consoles will never work, a reasoning like "take out Chen, Invoker and rework a bunch of abilities, then it's doable" makes no sense.My biggest gripe with Dota style games is that fact that they are basically action games that use a point to click movement mechanic. That's fucking terrible design.
In a console version, they could just change movement to the analog stick and click targeting to free targeting.
FPS games never became popular with the ports of PC games like UT and Quake 3, they became popular when someone designed a game around consoles since the beginning (Halo and CoD).
Can the Steambox Controller play DOTA? If so, will Sony copy it for DualShock 5 or 4.5? If not, why?
My biggest gripe with Dota style games is that fact that they are basically action games that use a point to click movement mechanic. That's fucking terrible design.
In a console version, they could just change movement to the analog stick and click targeting to free targeting.
Now Dota's basic mechanics are fucking terribly designed. gg scrubs
Originally Posted by jim-jam bongs
This thread is cute.
Anyway, disregarding the obvious control issues which would effectively require that it be changed into a different game entirely, Valve have no financial incentive to do this. The game is f2p because they make their money from player to player transactions and cosmetic item purchases. Why on earth would they split their cut with Sony or Microsoft rather than keep enjoying 100% of it and spending their time enticing more players to their real cash cow Steam?
Apparently there is a huge audience of m/kb players on ps3.
Originally Posted by The Smoking Bun
Better question. Why no Keyboard/Mouse peripherals for consoles so we can play MOBA's and RTS games @ 720p?
Can the Steambox Controller play DOTA? If so, will Sony copy it for DualShock 5 or 4.5? If not, why?
Devs are free to support them, but the amount of users that will permanently hook up a KB/M to a console is probably too low to be viable. Dota is the one game Valve's controller can't be used effectively with.
Anyway, disregarding the obvious control issues which would effectively require that it be changed into a different game entirely, Valve have no financial incentive to do this. The game is f2p because they make their money from player to player transactions and cosmetic item purchases. Why on earth would they split their cut with Sony or Microsoft rather than keep enjoying 100% of it and spending their time enticing more players to their real cash cow Steam?
Heroes removed:
Beastmaster (hawk, boar)
Clockwerk (impossible to aim hookshot, rocket flare)
Brewmaster (Primal split)
Io (relocate)
Tusk (frozen sigil)
Elder Titan (astral spirit)
Earth Spirit (stone remnant, > 4 spells)
Doom (devour can give him up to 6 spells)
Spirit Breaker (charge of darkness)
Lycan (Summon wolves)
Chaos Knight (Phantasm)
Antimage (blink)
Morphling (6 spells: waveform, morph x2, adaptive strike, replicate, morph replicate)
Phantom Lancer (illusions)
Templar Assassin (How do you use your ultimate?)
Lone druid (bear)
Naga siren (illusions)
Ember spirit (remnants)
Bloodseeker (his thirst will be basically useless)
Faceless Void (how do you control where he timewalks to?)
Broodmother (spawn spiderlings)
Spectre (haunt)
Meepo (4 meepos lol)
Storm spirit (how to control ball lightning)
Nature's Prophet (treants)
Enchantress (enchant)
Chen (holy persuasion)
Keeper of the Light (6 spells)
Warlock (Chaotic offering)
Queen of Pain (blink)
Invoker
Shadow demon (5 spells, illusions)
Visage (familiars)
This is excluding the heroes with more than 4 skills but not all are active.
Items Removed:
Blink dagger
Helm of the dominator
Boots of Teleportation
Teleport Scroll (unless you can only teleport back to base i guess)
Manta Style
What this come down to is, Dota 2 is enjoyable because its difficult, and you can improve as you play. Professional players can create miracles us trenchies will never fully understand. To dumb down the game in any way, shape or form would destroy Dota 2.
So please, take the fpses, don't touch our Dota 2.
Yes BUT as Valve has said, you'd lose against KB/M playersOriginally Posted by The Smoking Bun
Better question. Why no Keyboard/Mouse peripherals for consoles so we can play MOBA's and RTS games @ 720p?
Can the Steambox Controller play DOTA? If so, will Sony copy it for DualShock 5 or 4.5? If not, why?
you wouldn't be able to "click" accurately and quickly. for it to work they'd need some auto targeting system and that would ruin the game.circle, partol, hold stop I dont use at all. I know some ppl use stop to while waiting to last hit . I just move somewhere close to where i am. (just constantly clicking near my hero) ... inventory hotkeys are useful yes. However how many of dota items are active and how many are passive. Even many a times hero abilities are atleast one passive. With a little effort I feel it can be ported. Plus the ps4 has the touchpad ... And this is not even getting into using the dpad . Which gives a whole new 4 buttons .
It's impossible to get control parity unless you change the game.
How do you consider click to move to be a good design mechanic in a fast paced action game?
Because it doubles as one of the deepest strategy games I've ever played. Dota is like playing chess and Street Fighter at the same time. If anything I want another mouse and keyboard.
The latter of which will never happen with "Dota".
A brand new title in the genre designed from the ground up with consoles/controllers in mind could work, but Dota 2, as is, simply won't work.
It's a requirement for the game mechanics, you are sending move commands to units, not directly controlling them.How do you consider click to move to be a good design mechanic in a fast paced action game?
How will you send chen to move in range for mekanism while sending your creep to warstomp at the same time? Better grow an extra pair of hands and build controllers with 3 or 4 analog sticks so you can move them at the same time.
If enemies suddenly go missing off the map and I'm in jungle as prophet, I tab to select one of my treants, right click on the roshan pit and go on with my business farming and pushing.
The creep will go scout rosh for me with one move command that takes less than half a second to do.
If you have direct unit movement you'd have to select the treant, walk it manually to the roshan pit while having no control over your other treants or over your hero.
The courier is flying over my bottle to mid lane but the opponent gets too close, now I press my courier select button and right click on a patch of trees so he can be hidden nearby till I can get my bottle safely without it getting sniped by the enemy.
With direct control I'd have to manually move the courier to a safe place or press a button to send it back to base (dumbing down the game)
I am pushing a tower as prophet but a teamfight breaks out, I need to move my camera to watch the teamfight, use my ult and decide when and where and if I should teleport in so I can help(and need to move the camera to select the teleport point)
How will I select the teleport point?
One stick is bound to player movement, one stick to the camera, there is no pointer then to select any point with...
Dota would not be dota without click to move.
Because it's a fast-paced action game where pinpointing the exact spot you want to move to is more important than fine-grained "sliding" control over the direction your character is facing.How do you consider click to move to be a good design mechanic in a fast paced action game?
Sony and MS have eased up on patch fees somewhat, but it would probably still be a problem.And obviously they're not going to pay MS/Sony 100k twice every week to cert each patch/update.
Why would they even bother?
Dota or LoL are not only action games. They depend very heavily in positioning, much more than any other genre(exept maybe rts).How do you consider click to move to be a good design mechanic in a fast paced action game?
A lot of cool tricks that can be pulled off in the game could only be possible with the precise accuracy given by click to move.
I'm sorry come again?My biggest gripe with Dota style games is that fact that they are basically action games that use a point to click movement mechanic. That's fucking terrible design.
In a console version, they could just change movement to the analog stick and click targeting to free targeting.
It's not terrible whatsoever, that's how RTS/MOBA games work best. It is the ideal input control design. I'd rather have console users not need to put up with a sub-standard simplified control system which effectively destroys what the essence of the game is, and recommend they play it on PC. Because they are great games that really shouldn't be dumbed down to appeal to mainstream console goers who would very unlikely give any time for this genre.
What's more terrible to me is how console users can settle for a gamepad when playing an FPS game, I picked up a PS3 pad a few days ago and it was absolutely horrible. I appreciate that a console setup is more preferable for comfort and note the benefits they can provide...but I personally am not going to subject myself to it when I am used to KB/M for RTS/MOBA/FPS.
I'd advise you not to trash an entire genre which heavily features in E-sports. If they were shitty controls the pros wouldn't be as skilled as they are. I mean, do you even get console E-sports? DOTA and other games like Starcraft are some of the most deep & strategically challenging games ever, with very steep learning curves.
It's superior for what it needs to do, for how it is supposed to play, which is irrelevant to 'what input is the best' or the ridiculous rivalry of 'console VS PC', different games cater to different setups.
This right here too. I doubt this genre like RTS really appeals to the majority of console gamers. Didn't Xcom not do so well on consoles? Probably explains why there is more or less a complete absence of this genre on console which is not the case on PC.Originally Posted by UnrealEck
It's not as marketable on consoles as it has already been majorly established on PC. I suspect it probably wouldn't do too well on console.
Someone's going to give console MOBAs another try, though, because the company who finally figures it out is going to be swimming in cash.
Doesn't Nintendo not have a patching fee?Because it's a fast-paced action game where pinpointing the exact spot you want to move to is more important than fine-grained "sliding" control over the direction your character is facing.
Sony and MS have eased up on patch fees somewhat, but it would probably still be a problem.
Stick to arcade sticks for fighting games & shmups, traditional gamepad for action games, and platformers for those with good d-pads. It probably won't change for some of these until they stop designing games with 4 face buttons in mind.
If anyone was serious about this, they should look at Diablo 3 on consoles to see how direct character control would change these games.
Because it's far more of a strategy game than an action game?How do you consider click to move to be a good design mechanic in a fast paced action game?
Items are: z,x,c,space,g, alt q. For buy i use B
Abilities are the regular: q,w,e,r,d,f
Hero hotkey: 1,2
Courrier:3
Misc: p,s,h
Mouse is also very important.
I've heard the argument that sometimes you move more than one lord but surely the trade off is worth it.
e: guess the argument has been made
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