NeoGAF

Originally Posted by Celine

Because in 7 years DS sold 33M units in Japan.
Nothing short of a miracle.

yeah it was jesus who multiplied the DSs and gave them to all the japanese gamers. c'mon! which kind of argument is this? a miracle?

Originally Posted by 9thwonder

That thing was always meant for the west and never had a chance in Japan. I said it once and I'll say it again, Sony was just throwing Japan a bone bone for being a overall non factor when it comes to ps4.

The thing is I have a feeling it will mostly, or perhaps only?, appeal to those already owning a Vita. "I love my Vita, now let me play those amazing games on my TV"

And there's not too many of those in the west.

Originally Posted by ZhugeEX

Right.... what happened there?

Lu Bu is not strong on this one...

Originally Posted by lefantome

why? isn't it another handheld console?
There were two handheld consoles last gen, both their successors are selling far less, one of the two is still doing good the other one really bad.

NDS was a juggernaut, like PS2 back in the day, so comparing their sales to their successors' ones seems unfair to me as it is not going to be easy to replicate that huge mainstream success again for any one ever.


As for the Vita, if so far it's been selling poorly when compared to PSP, I reckon that's not due to a shrinking market as much as other factors, but I don't want to start the argument since it would require a lengthy post.

Wow!

Nintendo flawless victory.

Originally Posted by Celine

of course a leading system selling 33M in Japan is the norm.

It happened there wasn't any miracle behind it, stop trying to find excuses for the 3DS performance.
The DS was successful for many reasons and there are reasons that explain the gap between it and its successor.


@gianni: 3ds is not even close to the DS level of sales and is already declining. It's a huge drop and the only DIRECT competitor is doing far worse.

Originally Posted by L Thammy

First off, I should note that Sony can't just get the third parties. Forget moneyhats. If Square Enix does not feel their their studios' time is well spent working on an original Vita RPG, they won't bother.

However, the Vita appeals to similar demographics as the PSP, and people who were interested in the PSP are probably those whose interest is easiest to catch. A replacement IP isn't going to be as big as the original, but it doesn't need to be. If it makes the Vita seem more attractive and draws in more people, that could make the situation a little bit healthier.

I don't disagree that Sony needs to cultivate or help promote replacement IPs.

In terms of promoting, they're definitely doing so with Toukiden/GE2. I don't see them slacking behind in giving major pushes to the alternatives.

However, in terms of cultivating replacement IPs, imo, this is a 'damn-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't' situation for Sony.

The reality is that Sony has historically build its franchises and IPs, from top-down, from console with a trickle-down effect with spin-offs and other stuff appearing in handhelds. And it works best this way because Sony's console business and development resources are way, way, way bigger than their handheld business and resources too.

So realistically, if Sony wants to make a replacement IP for FF, etc... they cannot start those IPs from the Vita. They have to build them as console first to maximise their potential in the global market.

Soul Sacrifice and Freedom Wars are different because nobody gives a shit about monster hunting games on consoles. But it's different for those other franchises, which are primarily console IPs.

Originally Posted by Iseeyou

dat 82% in decline.

That's expected for an FF title. I suppose week three will see if it continues to see at this pace. SE should be happy the first shipment sold out anyway.

I think ultimately the leadership of SCE, or those above them, simply don't really give a shit about the handheld market. Or at the least don't give enough of a shit about it to pour significant investment in it.

PlayStation emerged from a bitterly failed joint venture with Nintendo to evolve into a coup for the living room, to the point where Kutaragi spouted things about replacing the PC iirc. And at the height of that success they thought they could also contest Nintendo's traditional monopoly in a market the latter essentially created.

The PlayStation home consoles still have overarching business intentions outside of gaming. It ultimately still matters. The handheld line really doesn't, and there's much writing on the wall about it declining due to new devices that for many serve as capable substitutes. There will be no PSP3.

Originally Posted by Green Slime

Capcom wanted more money, and 3DS gave them that opportunity, while also allowing them to reuse old assets. It was a logical business decision.

Sony should not have taken Capcom's support for granted.

Sony just learned the hard way that there is no such thing as 3rd partyplatform loyalty. I hope they won't repeat the same mistake next time if they didn't thing like this repeated in the future.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

We've heard the horror stories of how Japan Studio is practically wild wild west of a bunch of creatives being allowed to do whatever the hell they want with poor control or leadership. It's pretty obvious that they don't give a shit about sales and are doing whatever the hell they want.

Even with Allan Becker's new leadership, it still sounds like Japan Studio gets a free pass to do whatever the hell their crazy minds can think of. I mean, Puppeteer sounds almost entirely like a vanity project by Gavin Moore. I

Man that sounds bad, no wonder The Last Guardian is always delayed until the end of time. How the hell they could allowed their creatives to do whatever they want?

Originally Posted by ZhugeEX

Right.... what happened there?

Maybe they wait for the PS4 version?

Originally Posted by lefantome

It happened there wasn't any miracle behind it, stop trying to find excuses for the 3DS performance.
The DS was successful for many reasons and there are reasons that explain the gap between it and its successor.

DS is more like an exception.
Otherwise more leading systems would have broke 30M in Japan.

I don't think anyone expected 3DS to replicate DS sale pattern, nor for the matter Vita would followed PSP one (PSP sold really well in Japan).

Originally Posted by lefantome

@gianni: 3ds is not even close to the DS level

What system was :-P

Second week sales, 3D Mario Platformers:

[N64] Super Mario 64 (Nintendo) {1996.06.23} - 121.921 / 284.032 (-25%)
[WII] Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Nintendo) {2010.05.27} - 116.153 / 453.722 (-66%)
[GCN] Super Mario Sunshine (Nintendo) {2002.07.19} - 102.576 / 383.186 (-63%)
[3DS] Super Mario 3D Land (Nintendo) {2011.11.03} - 87.886 / 432.584 (-75%)
[WII] Super Mario Galaxy (Nintendo) {2007.11.01} - 78.349 / 334.690 (-69%)
[NDS] Super Mario 64 DS (Nintendo) {2004.12.02} - 52.591 / 172.653 (-56%)
[WIU] Super Mario 3D World (Nintendo) {2013.11.21} - 39.306 / 146.273 (-63%)

Originally Posted by Chris1964

Of course not. It's a worse GameCube.

Yeah, which is still better than a better Virtual Boy and at least gives some room for improvement if Nintendo acts wisely. Which I don't want to claim they will.

Originally Posted by Celine

DS is more like an exception.
Otherwise more leading systems would have broke 30M in Japan.

I don't think anyone expected 3DS to replicate DS sale pattern, nor for the matter Vita would followed PSP one (PSP sold really well in Japan).


What system was :-P

Gameboy.

Originally Posted by Celine

DS is more like an exception.
Otherwise more leading systems would have broke 30M in Japan.

I don't think anyone expected 3DS to replicate DS sale pattern, nor for the matter Vita would followed PSP one (PSP sold really well in Japan).


What system was :-P

There haven't been enough handheld generation in japan to make such assumptions.

Originally Posted by Shengar

Man that sounds bad, no wonder The Last Guardian is always delayed until the end of time. How the hell they could allowed their creatives to do whatever they want?

Apparently that place has always been treated like an art-house where Sony recognises that it's value is because of its creative freedom, so they give them a bit of leeway.... too much leeway.

And besides, there's one disciplined group there, which is the External Productions Team that are responsible for 3rd-party collaborations like Rogue Galaxy, Dark Cloud, Demon Souls, etc. So Japan Studio still cranks out great games.

Originally Posted by KillerMan91

Gameboy.

Nope.
Game Boy line sold more than 30M after 12 years on the market.

What system ever got a YTD of 8-9 million units in Japan?
Maybe Chris, or some other with spreedsheet, could tell me.

Originally Posted by Celine

Last time was much easier to recruit major third party games.

They just had to say "ehi now we are going to introduce a playstation handheld that will guarantee you another revenue stream maybe even comparable to that of PS2".

Now we are in a post DS/Smartphone world.

It was much easier then, it is more difficult now.

That is not a good excuse for not doing it or failing to do it, though.

Originally Posted by lefantome

@gianni: 3ds is not even close to the DS level of sales and is already declining. It's a huge drop and the only DIRECT competitor is doing far worse.

Yeah, but as for 3DS - that's what I was arguing - there are other possible reasons than a shrinking market as for why it has been not so much successful as NDS.

Anecdotal evidence, I think at this stage some years back I owned already two DSs - Phat and DSi XL - whereas so far I have never owned a 3DS, although I could make with one as there are some games I am interested in.

Fact is when NDS was out, everyone wanted to try it, also due to IPs such as Brain age that sold millions copies, whereas 3DS could not replicate that craze for several reasons, and it will be hard for anyone to bottle the lightning again in the future.

Originally Posted by Celine

Nope.
Game Boy line sold more than 30M after 12 years on the market.

What system ever got a YTD of 8-9 million units in Japan?
Maybe Chris, or some other with spreedsheet, could tell me.

Oh. Somewhat read the the question was about totals but it was about the pace. My apologies. Pretty sure that DS is only one that has sold over 8 million ytd. Peak year 2006 was something like 8.5 million and 2007 was 7.5 million.

When did Tearaway launch for VITA in Japan? If it did, what were the first week sales?

Originally Posted by DarkLordMalik

When did Tearaway launch for VITA in Japan? If it did, what were the first week sales?

Tomorrow and too low :(

Originally Posted by shinra-bansho

I think ultimately the leadership of SCE, or those above them, simply don't really give a shit about the handheld market. Or at the least don't give enough of a shit about it to pour significant investment in it.

PlayStation emerged from a bitterly failed joint venture with Nintendo to evolve into a coup for the living room, to the point where Kutaragi spouted things about replacing the PC iirc. And at the height of that success they thought they could also contest Nintendo's traditional monopoly in a market the latter essentially created.

The PlayStation home consoles still have overarching business intentions outside of gaming. It ultimately still matters. The handheld line really doesn't, and there's much writing on the wall about it declining due to new devices that for many serve as capable substitutes. There will be no PSP3.

And with PSP they were successfull. They took 1/3 of handheld market marketshare when previous competitors had 1/10 maybe ?

But PS4 is one of key pillars upon each they bet future of Sony so it's no suprise all effort was concentrated on it. IMHO now when they know they are succesfull it should free some resources to support Vita.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Apparently that place has always been treated like an art-house where Sony recognises that it's value is because of its creative freedom, so they give them a bit of leeway.... too much leeway.

And besides, there's one disciplined group there, which is the External Productions Team that are responsible for 3rd-party collaborations like Rogue Galaxy, Dark Cloud, Demon Souls, etc. So Japan Studio still cranks out great games.

I wonder what kind of output they can make if the put more "order" to that "freedom". No I doubt it that Demon's Souls 2 is even a thing D:

Originally Posted by michaelius

IMHO now when they know they are succesfull it should free some resources to support Vita.

I honestly doubt that.

Originally Posted by Screamapillar

So I realize of course that this holiday there is no "Animal Crossing" sales explosion going on, but if you look at YoY hardware sales, this holiday is lacking a big hit that is driving interest. Pokemon and Monster Hunter are big sellers, but they peaked in October and September. What's the big end-of-year game that is going to cause sales to explode this year? Or is there not one?

If I must bet on something...

Why is the WiiU up compared to SM3DW first week? How is Nintendo's marketing in Japan for SM3DW?

Originally Posted by Screamapillar

So I realize of course that this holiday there is no "Animal Crossing" sales explosion going on, but if you look at YoY hardware sales, this holiday is lacking a big hit that is driving interest. Pokemon and Monster Hunter are big sellers, but they peaked in October and September. What's the big end-of-year game that is going to cause sales to explode this year? Or is there not one?

The first Yugioh game in years comes out tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Jackano

Why is the WiiU up compared to SM3DW first week? How is Nintendo's marketing in Japan for SM3DW?

Nintendo products in general tend to pick up a lot toward the end of the year, because their software is usually much more mass-market friendly than the competition. Nintendo is heavily advertising this year. They really, really want to reach their targets by the end of March.

Originally Posted by Screamapillar

Nintendo products in general tend to pick up a lot toward the end of the year, because their software is usually much more mass-market friendly than the competition. Nintendo is heavily advertising this year. They really, really want to reach their targets by the end of March.

I agree with everything but the bolded. They have no intention of reaching those targets and no one thinks they will.

I'm not surprised that Wii U numbers went up. I'll admit I didn't expect it to happen until next week and it's a good sign that the holiday might actually be decent although that 3D World drop isn't great heading to the holidays. I was hoping for 50k and then a rise. I still think a 200k holiday is possible although that's still bad it's better than what a lot expected.

Originally Posted by Mpl90

If I must bet on something...

I'd say that's a good bet. It's a cracking little game and it won't surprise me if it explodes.

I can't believe Sony didn't lock that one down for the Vita.

Criminal Girls sold almost the same as the PSP version, I guess that's not bad for a port. Hopefully that's enough to guarantee a sequel.

Not sure how to feel about Mirai 2 sales. First game had pretty good legs so I guess we can expect the same here.

Wii U climbed? Nice. Was expecting it to lowly get lower in sales by the week. Vita TV on the other hands was overhyped when it came to pushing units.

Originally Posted by Slayven

The first Yugioh game in years comes out tomorrow.

Oh gosh, about time! I need that to come overseas. I love the Yugioh games like World Championship.

Originally Posted by Screamapillar

So I realize of course that this holiday there is no "Animal Crossing sales explosion" going on, but if you look at YoY hardware sales, this holiday is lacking a big hit that is driving interest. Pokemon and Monster Hunter are big sellers, but they peaked in October and September. What's the big end-of-year game that is going to cause sales to explode this year? Or is there not one?

Keep an eye on Puzzle and Dragons. If that explodes, who knows what might happen.

Zelda might give the sales a last-minute kick up the arse. It's been a long time since we've seen a Zelda game of this type, so it's a bit up in the air as to whether Japan will go for it or not.

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

I'd say that's a good bet. It's a cracking little game and it won't surprise me if it explodes.

I can't believe Sony didn't lock that one down for the Vita.

Gung-Ho Entertainment is swimming within pool of cash right know. Sony must pay a lot to just make it multiplatform I guess.

Originally Posted by L Thammy

Must admit, I'm surprised that the Vita TV's held on so poorly even with a bad start. I had thought that the price alone would keep them moving, even if tech-heads don't care. I guess it would have to have something more interesting to the casual gamer first.

I'm not. It was always going to be a very small product -- this would carry over to the US as well and it's why they're probably not going to release it here.

3DS down YOY sadly but should pick-up the pace once Puzzle & Dragons hits! Looking forward to its debut I have great expectations for the title :)

Wii U rise? :D Lets hope it can maintain the 25k threshold for the remainder of the December month.

The FF10 bundles...isn't it released later on this month?

Originally Posted by michaelius

And with PSP they were successfull. They took 1/3 of handheld market marketshare when previous competitors had 1/10 maybe ?

They were undoubtedly more successful than any past contender for the market, but that was off the back of incredible brand strength at the time due to the domination of the PS2 and the fortunate explosion of Monster Hunter on the system, which led to other software successes.

Originally Posted by michaelius

But PS4 is one of key pillars upon each they bet future of Sony so it's no suprise all effort was concentrated on it. IMHO now when they know they are succesfull it should free some resources to support Vita.

It will require continued effort to keep the PS4 successful, it's far too early to rest on laurels. The Vita is a lost cause; there isn't any point investing in it, at significant opportunity cost, when there's the PS3 and PS4 businesses that will continue to actually matter, that have much more strategic interest for Sony as a whole, and that (I guess it still remains to be seen) aren't in an obviously declining market due to smart device culprits beyond cyclical norms.

Originally Posted by shinra-bansho

They were undoubtedly more successful than any past contender for the market, but that was off the back of incredible brand strength at the time due to the domination of the PS2 and the fortunate explosion of Monster Hunter on the system, which led to other software successes.
It will require continued effort to keep the PS4 successful, it's far too early to rest on laurels. The Vita is a lost cause; there isn't any point investing in it, at significant opportunity cost, when there's the PS3 and PS4 businesses that will continue to actually matter, that have much more strategic interest for Sony as a whole, and that (I guess it still remains to be seen) aren't in an obviously declining market due to smart device culprits beyond cyclical norms.

Exactly, Vita is just a PS4 streaming player now now outside of Japan. It'll be lucky to show up in a few PS4 commercials.

Dem legs lol

Originally Posted by Bruno MB

Second week sales, 3D Mario Platformers:

[N64] Super Mario 64 (Nintendo) {1996.06.23} - 121.921 / 284.032 (-25%)
[WII] Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Nintendo) {2010.05.27} - 116.153 / 453.722 (-66%)
[GCN] Super Mario Sunshine (Nintendo) {2002.07.19} - 102.576 / 383.186 (-63%)
[3DS] Super Mario 3D Land (Nintendo) {2011.11.03} - 87.886 / 432.584 (-75%)
[WII] Super Mario Galaxy (Nintendo) {2007.11.01} - 78.349 / 334.690 (-69%)
[NDS] Super Mario 64 DS (Nintendo) {2004.12.02} - 52.591 / 172.653 (-56%)
[WIU] Super Mario 3D World (Nintendo) {2013.11.21} - 39.306 / 146.273 (-63%)

Yup this is definitely going to be the worse selling 3D mario. I wonder if it can reach 500k.

Originally Posted by Slayven

The first Yugioh game in years comes out tomorrow.

wow, Konami still makes games.

02./05. [3DS] Pokemon X / Y # <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2013.10.12} (¥4.800) - 60.547 / 3.356.354 <80-100%> (+18%)

09./09. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4 # <ACT> (Capcom) {2013.09.14} (¥5.990) - 25.756 / 3.145.292 <80-100%> (+4%)

10./13. [WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2012.12.08} (¥5.985) - 24.978 / 663.733 <80-100%> (+38%)

24./21. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf # <ETC> (Nintendo) {2012.11.08} (¥4.800) - 10.247 / 3.892.232 <80-100%> (+35%)

29./23. [3DS] Battle For Money Sentouchuu: Densetsu no Shinobi no Survival Battle! <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2013.10.17} (¥4.980) - 7.128 / 110.105 <60-80%> (+6%)

30./28. [3DS] Disney Magic Castle: My Happy Life # <ETC> (Bandai Namco Games) {2013.08.01} (¥5.480) - 6.897 / 324.959 <80-100%> (+40%)

Them Nintendo bumps.

Originally Posted by Pyscho_Mantis

Dem legs lol




Yup this is definitely going to be the worse selling 3D mario. I wonder if it can reach 500k.

It probably will when it gets bundled.