Someone hasn't played Marvel.
Or KOF for that matter.
Heck even SFIV has unblockables which weren't intended by the developers.
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Scrubbing out the win: Examples of "bad" players winning competitive games
- Thread starter ScOULaris
- Start date
Someone hasn't played Marvel.
Or KOF for that matter.
Heck even SFIV has unblockables which weren't intended by the developers.
She sucked initially but after a buff or two Sheeva became very powerful, her armor moves were great, and people didn't know what to do against her because she was rarely chosen. I got hundreds and hundreds of scrub wins (if that's what you want to call it) with Sheeva online back in the day. Her jump in combo if it connects is 33% and it's so long you have time to figure out whether it's blocked or not. On block you can end the combo differently and safely and it still chips like 10% damage total.
That teleport can be dropped center forward or back and you can play some wicked mind games. I don't know if her fireball was ever patched but you couldn't duck it (iirc), and blocking it would force a push back. Again, I don't know if it was patched out, but Sheeva's only real weakness was jump in pressure once she got super armor on her moves.
The sheer amount of people who didn't know her combos or moves won me an incredible amount of matches. People would laugh at me over voice chat as soon as I picked her but after a minute or so just didn't know what to expect and would start freaking out or simply rage quit.
The fact that it was "well known that Sheeva sucked" is probably what made her that much better.
There were a few characters I was terrified to go up against, I think it was Kung Lao and Johnny Cage, I forget why though.
But we all know that MOBA's are just there for the scrubs that can't make it in a RTS and CS is only there for the scrubs that can't handle arena shooters.
Seriously that discussion is so stupid, all of those games have merit as competitive games, I'm personally not a fan of fighting games but to act like the skill ceiling is low in those games is ridiculous.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Exactly. In SF4, you can just keep going down down-forward down down-forward and spam on punch during blockstrings and you'll probably get a reversal DP when there's a gap. That doesn't work in say, 3rd Strike, which doesn't have the shortcut and has a way smaller reversal window.
One thing I like about SF4 is how it eats inputs during the starts of ultras, saved my butt a million times. In 3rd Strike and Marvel, if you touch a button during the freeze you're getting hit by it.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I always have trouble against unconventional teams in Pokemon, as I somewhat counterteam the Meta. Whether used well or not, it's what happens. Not amzing by any means, and i hang around a 1400-1800 ladder rating. Although that may have to do with the downward spiral that happens after 1 loss
I dont see anything wrong with the commentating at all. They can laugh all they want, it was funny as hell.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
You have no idea what you're talking about. Every example you listed in your lengthy post above did nothing other than demonstrate that you have no clue what goes into and what happens in top tier fighting games. Relating difficulty level to marketing level is insane. Capcom, for example, broke new ground when hosting it's 25th Anniversary Tournament, staking the prize pool for a year long series of qualifiers and a finals, $500,000 across four games. Valve REVEALED Dota2 with a $1mil, for first prize alone, tournament, put in another 3 million for the next two tournaments, and pays for room and board for every team that attended. That's just dota and that's just one tournament, think that makes an impact above possible skill ceiling? Both take huge amounts of practice and timing, don't try to devalue one or the other.
As others have said, FSP isn't a top tier player, and in no way a professional. It would be like considering the DotaGAF stack to be Alliance, maybe not even. Sure, we could choke it and lose to some randoms, but Alliance never would. Just like any top FGC player would beat this guy 1000/1000 times while playing random select. Probably in any fighting game.
revolverjgw
Member
There's nothing so sweet as the salt of somebody messaging me telling me I have no skill at SF after I beat them soundly. I felt so good for that fat guy.
stn
Member
There is NO WAY that you can mash reversals as effectively in SF3 as you can in SF4. I tried my hand at SF3: OE, which released after SF4. I mashed DP with Yang and Akuma on wake-up, it rarely worked. If anything, I got punished for it. Same thing with KOF13, I tried mashing in that the first time I played just to see if it would work. NOPE. Ate fat combos.
SF4 is easily the most lenient in that regard. If I didn't learn my foundation from ST I'd probably be a much worse SF player than I am. I won't even comment on how hard it is to reverse in ST. In fact, my bad reversal ability in that game is one of the things keeping me from being great as opposed to good.
No comparison.
SF4 is easily the most lenient in that regard. If I didn't learn my foundation from ST I'd probably be a much worse SF player than I am. I won't even comment on how hard it is to reverse in ST. In fact, my bad reversal ability in that game is one of the things keeping me from being great as opposed to good.
No comparison.
Waylon Drums
Member
Are all commentators for these things so horribly annoying?
lolol.
It actually does have that shortcut.
ScrubSaibot
Neo Member
That Rufus player was not "technically better". He was a bad player who didn't know how to counter online tactics. He never anti-aired with cr.mp even once. He almost never punished sweeps (Ryu's sweep is super unsafe on block).
That Ryu had absolutely no ground game and if FSP had demonstrated a modicum of defense fundamentals, he would have forced Gandhi to kill himself. This is nothing more than two terrible players who were unlucky enough to have to play on stream at the same time.
That Ryu had absolutely no ground game and if FSP had demonstrated a modicum of defense fundamentals, he would have forced Gandhi to kill himself. This is nothing more than two terrible players who were unlucky enough to have to play on stream at the same time.
In all fairness, the ease that you can do it with in SF4 is way beyond 3S. I can headbutt the arcade stick during a blockstring in SF4 and I'll probably get a reversal out during any gaps.
Super Turbo is the game with the unforgiving reversal window.
I H8 Memes
Member
These other games are already self sustaining at higher levels than the FGC. Outside of Valve sponsored or Riot sponsored events. CS has a long tradition of high quality competitive gaming. It never would have fallen by the wayside were it not for internal corruption that set in to derail the competitive scene half a decade or so ago. Fighting games will always be that entertaining yet second tier side show. Fighting games will always be sitting in those sad little lawn chairs. Always.
Riposte
Member
I h8 memes lol
I can't even be bothered to quote this shit line by line.
People think about tactics because it is fun.
lol
Yeah, scrubs practice ressentiment.
I can't even be bothered to quote this shit line by line.
People think about tactics because it is fun.
lol
Yeah, scrubs practice ressentiment.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Casually ignoring your implication that popularity relates to difficulty?
Definitely. It's a matter of degrees, really. Not arguing that, and I don't even like sf4. Just didn't see why this video is indicative of any problems with the game. It was just a lack of fundamentals on both sides and the match would have looked similar in just about any Street Fighter.
MilkyOctave
Member
This. If somebody is a true professional, they should always behave like one and have proper manners. Otherwise it makes the whole community look bad. FSP should've at least shaken hands with him.
Ragingnight
Member
what? how? He lost. That is the norm. LOL?
FUCK OUT OF HERE. You don't have to do jack shit and it shouldn't be held against you for not doing it.
Fried Food
Banned
fascinating video. Brings up interesting points about the difficulty of disregarding knowledge of how things are supposed to work and expecations and shit.
Would love to hear more about this.
Would love to hear more about this.
I H8 Memes
Member
I never said they arent difficult. I named 2 fps games and 2 genres with a higher skill ceiling. And that's all. It's pretty tough company to keep.
Why are you even continuing here? You started with one point then moved on to something completely different and irrelevant that does nothing to prove your initial point. Nobody here but you gives a shit about which makes more money, or which is the "A" show.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Whats the topic, loling at shitty players? This whole thread seems pretty misguided, I H8 Memes' hilariously off-base ranting excluded.
Ragingnight
Member
rofl ih8meme sounds like a typical esports idiot. I had friends try to tell me how great LoL was and it was the best competitive game since slice bread. Riot doesn't even know how to balance the game, or even how to balance in a competitive manner.
Really? When transitioning from 3rd Strike to SF4, I had some adjustments to make because of that shortcut (I'd play Abel and get accidental EX anti-air grab when trying to ultra all the time). Next time I fire up 3rd Strike I'll try it out.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
You know Shades McGee there meant business, too bad we didn't record that match
Well, the thread was intended to be about instances of less skilled players upsetting "better" players in a tournament setting. Discussion about what does or doesn't constitute scrubby tactics is also in line with this topic. Arguing about fighting games versus other genres in terms of skill requirements isn't, really.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I was laughing while I watched it, but I was mainly laughing at the situation. That stuff just shouldn't work, and he was getting away with murder.
Well, I guess I can sorta see the point. Depending on the move, reversals can hurt. When you make that tool super easy for players of all skill levels on top of having some hard to execute true blockstrings, you're bound to run into some rage inducing moments. I remember seeing quite a bit of this when I used to watch some of Poonkgo's streams on cafeid before EVO earlier this year. He always goes for the fancy stuff and lost quite a few times because of this specific thing.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I wish Triforce was here. He'd a agree with I H8 Memes
unholyrevenger72
Banned
If the other player is skilled he wouldn't have lost to the "scrub". You people need to get over yourselves.
This whole situation reminds me of competitive Pokémon, where the wrong assessment of your opponent's skill/knowledge can end with you mind-gaming yourself into submission.
Also, re: "scrubby tactics" -- if it's legal and it wins, the scrubbiness is on the "pro" for not having the skill to adapt and counter.
Also, re: "scrubby tactics" -- if it's legal and it wins, the scrubbiness is on the "pro" for not having the skill to adapt and counter.
Oh come on, not shaking hands after a match is a massive dick move. Of course no one can force a player to do it, but the salty player deserves to be called out on it / ridiculed afterwards by the fans.
His claim that the mechanical skill ceiling is higher in RTS games than fighting games is one that could easily be argued, but he repeatedly falsely correlates game exposure/marketing/winnings with the skill on display in whichever game. The two have very little to do with one another.
Poker is more approachable in terms of mechanics than any of these games, and look at the mainstream appeal and prize winnings for that "sport."
Ragingnight
Member
lololol these people. Thats why you can't talk about competitive anything with somebody who doesn't have the competitive mindset.
Vergil is scrubby. Random scrubs can get wins EASILY depending on game mechanics (xfactor) and character imbalance (vergil). There is no such thing as "smart" vergil play.
That ryu player is a scrub. You could lose to a scrub, thats fine. Scrub-busting is a skill that is needed in a tournament setting. There are players where you have to play completely stupid because they have no sense of risk/reward assessment. These are the same scrubs that complain about hadouken spamming and combo spamming. That ryu player probably doesn't even know why he won, he just mashed buttons and hoped for the best. Simple as that. There is no logic behind the shit he was doing.
Vergil is scrubby. Random scrubs can get wins EASILY depending on game mechanics (xfactor) and character imbalance (vergil). There is no such thing as "smart" vergil play.
That ryu player is a scrub. You could lose to a scrub, thats fine. Scrub-busting is a skill that is needed in a tournament setting. There are players where you have to play completely stupid because they have no sense of risk/reward assessment. These are the same scrubs that complain about hadouken spamming and combo spamming. That ryu player probably doesn't even know why he won, he just mashed buttons and hoped for the best. Simple as that. There is no logic behind the shit he was doing.
Nope. I don't shake hands with anybody unless I am impress by their play. Even if I lose, if I think they are only slightly better than me or rely on gimmicks then fuck out of here. Shaking hands are only reserved for people that I respect and I don't respect shitty random play.
Sure there was. He was rushing the other guy down. Debate the soundness of his logic all you want, but that's surely what he was thinking. And hey -- it worked.
Kind of reminds me of Revolutionary War tactics. The British are all like, "Hey noobs, line up in the open so we can shoot you" and the Americans are all like "lol let's run around in the bushes."
FindMyFarms
Member
Holy shit, did he just say where's the theorycrafting in fighting games?! Has he not heard of theory fighter?? Or seen the marvel thread?!?!? *paging dahbomb*
CountBlack
Member
I showed a friend from work this video and he doesn't understand SF and found it funny.
How'd you let that happen dawg
How'd you let that happen dawg