I thought that it was being published by Microsoft Studios?Originally Posted by BlackBuzzard
Capy has already said Below will come to other platforms.
Originally Posted by frankie_baby
oh so its lack of shareholders that defines an indie this week
I was thinking more on the independent part than indie. For me there's a fundamental difference between a privately owned company and a publicly listed one. Anyway, I don't see what's the problem with Crytek being on the list. You could argue that the list should contain 300 devs instead of 50, but Crytek being allowed to self-publish is definitely not the problem. We have to wait and see when MS announce the net batch of developers to see if they're artificially (and intentionally) restricting the amount of self-published games or not.A public listing has nothing to do with this. The term indie (independent) basically means "not a major player and not dependent on a major player". There is no exact definition but according to the common definition Crytek definitely is not an indie company.
Damn the downplay is serious in here. Doesnt seem like a huge deal to me.
indie means independent (not owned by a publisher)A public listing has nothing to do with this. The term indie (independent) basically means "not a major player and not dependent on a major player". There is no exact definition but according to the common definition Crytek definitely is not an indie company.
I think people are confusing what is generally homebrew as indie
http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/8/4602...ther-platformsOriginally Posted by godelsmetric
I thought that it was being published by Microsoft Studios?
Seems to me like its timed.
Better later than never. Good work Microsoft.
Better late than never but Sony are going to be ahead of MS with indies for quite a while although I do expect them to eventually catch up, especially when/if the whole 'every xbox one is a devkit' thing takes off.
Well who does that, honestly.I used the magic of reading the entire PR release:
http://news.xbox.com/2013/12/xbox-on...ers-id-at-xbox
If you'd actually read anything about id@xbox you'd know that Microsoft have always said they would start it up with experienced Devs like we're seeing announced today to get the program running, work out the kinks etc.Originally Posted by ThoughtsOfSpeaking
As far as im concerned it is. Its Microsoft, subverting the idea behind this indie movement and just using it to promote XBLA part 2. Almost everyone of these developers would have got their content on the Marketplace with or without this program.
Where are the one man teams, the guys who barely can get their games on steam, the guys who this program will actually benefit in a significant way? Outside of Drinkbox, im not seeing much.
Exactly. Guys like you are who I expect to be announced, not fucking Crytek for fucks sake.
Heh, yeah strictly speaking you could argue there are no indies on closed platforms like consoles but as I said, there is no such 100% accurate definition as this whole term has a cultural and changing background that makes it hard to grasp.But if you sign up to ID@Xbox or the PlayStation 4 indie program would't you be depending on a major player?
Btw .,,..there is a good article here about Indies And The Diminishing Returns Of “Indie” ..
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013...urns-of-indie/
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013...urns-of-indie/
This doesn't confirm much of anything... There's no way to know who else applied and if they weren't accepted or will be announced at a later date. Some of those don't even have projects I'm aware of that they're making. And yes, it seems like just well established devs. Just like we though before. Which feels like the opposite of the entire program to begin with. We'll figure this out as more information comes in.
Well the proof is in the pudding. Ill reserve judgement for now, but as it stands, it stinks.Originally Posted by JaggedSac
They already stated that the first wave of accepted devs would be the more experienced devs. The announced list should come as no surprise. The infrastructure for submission and such are being worked on with feedback being used to work out the kinks before the flood gates are opened.
The term 'indie' has been mutilated and misspecified beyond notion.Originally Posted by DopeyFish
I think people are confusing what is generally homebrew as indie
Honestly, when people use the term 'indie', their perception is that it means : "self-publishing small team of developers."
Most people don't refer to Crytek as 'indie, but rather more annoying perception like 'independent large studios."
nice to see an update on this
Edit: WarThunder devs in that list and ex Sony XDev Double Eleven
Edit2: (list is more bare bone when looking at the fact that most of these guys put out retail games *of course with the help of publishers)
Edit3: Hope they push out more devkits to more indies in the long run (they need to close the gap of nextgen indie titles being only on PC/WiiU/PS4)
Edit: WarThunder devs in that list and ex Sony XDev Double Eleven
Edit2: (list is more bare bone when looking at the fact that most of these guys put out retail games *of course with the help of publishers)
Edit3: Hope they push out more devkits to more indies in the long run (they need to close the gap of nextgen indie titles being only on PC/WiiU/PS4)
Last edited by TheRealTalker; Yesterday at 04:14 PM.
Fingers crossed for a kinect enhanced You Don't Know Jack.
I think they are just asking for parity, so if a game is timed exclusive on PS4 for 6 months, when it is released on the Xbox One after the exclusivity, MS wants the game to be exactly the same as what the PS4 has on day one. Or at least that is what I got from it, note that I have a hangover and running on 3 hours of sleep so my interpretation could be off.So... they don't have to be (timed) exclusive but they don't want games after timed exclusivity elsewhere? Did I read that right?
Last edited by tkalamba; Yesterday at 04:07 PM.
Sorry but you are wrong, it's not that easy. A multi-billion dollar company is never indie, doesn't matter whether there is a publisher or not. For those interested I would suggest reading up on the development of indie music as afaik that's where the term comes from.Originally Posted by DopeyFish
indie means independent (not owned by a publisher)
I think people are confusing what is generally homebrew as indie
Edit: Maybe it was the movie business first.
Last edited by Copenap; Yesterday at 04:06 PM.
Damn good point actually.Originally Posted by BlackBuzzard
Weird that Add Water isnt on the list.
After their stories about how MS dicked them around last gen trying to release any Oddworld titles on 360 you'd have thought MS would have tried to build some bridges there at least if only to show how their attitude to indie devs had changed.
Isn't there a guy on the JAW team that posts on GAF(Goldenhelmet?)? Would be interested in hearing from him on this.
The term "indie", even in the music realm, has gone to shit. See Macklemore.Sorry but you are wrong, it's not that easy. A multi-billion dollar company is never indie, doesn't matter whether there is a publisher or not. For those interested I would suggest reading up on the development of indie music as afaik that's where the term comes from.
I am personally not confusing indie with independent. Either way they can leverage the platform to create smaller titles that are fun to play. I don't give shit what they call themselves.
One being included does not take away from the other.
One being included does not take away from the other.
Originally Posted by DopeyFish
indie means independent (not owned by a publisher)
I think people are confusing what is generally homebrew as indie
Exactly. In some ways it is attempt by bigger companies to take advantage of the love Indies get.Originally Posted by Nightengale
The term 'indie' has been mutilated and misspecified beyond notion.
Honestly, when people use the term 'indie', their perception is that it means : "self-publishing small team of developers."
Most people don't refer to Crytek as 'indie, but rather more annoying perception like 'independent large studios."
A good example of this is the App Store. Initially a great way for indies to get stuff out there, but now being taken over by bigger companies who want to make a quick buck as well.
Really depends on how that is actually handled, I can't imagine Microsoft would argue with you on price but they probably reserve the right to avoid becoming an iOS style store (99c apps etc). I haven't looked in to the specifics of any contract though so that's all just guessing, but I doubt it's a major concern compared to other things.Originally Posted by Nightengale
What about the setting your own pricing thing, does that have a big impact for you guys?
Vlambeer just confirmed via Twitter that their release date parity clause was waived for Nuclear Throne, so I guess Microsoft are willing to budge on that one if your game is highly anticipated. Hopefully they get a lot of push back on it and remove the clause because the rest of their program seems like a pretty great deal.
Pretty good list for the first 30. Hopefully some of those devs can fill in gaps and Microsoft can shed more light on the rest of the program before E3, but I bet most info comes at E3 regarding additional devs.
Yeah, so any updates PS4 version got post launch would need to be in the Xbox version at release. Seems like a decent policy to meI think they are just asking for parity, so if a game is timed exclusive on PS4 for 6 months, when it is released on the Xbox One after the exclusivity, MS wants the game to be exactly the same as what the PS4 has on day one. Or at least that is what I got from it, note that I have a hangover and running on 3 hours of sleep so my interpretation could be off.
No, they don't need any exclusivity but ask that if a game's a timed exclusive somewhere else they want that game to be on Xbox One at some point.So... they don't have to be (timed) exclusive but they don't want games after timed exclusivity elsewhere? Did I read that right?
That list is pretty much inline of what was rumored/reported before that MS is really only interested with working with established independent studios. I don't know how many one or two persons teams you'll find making games for XBox anytime soon.
Only on neogaf would there be people upset because the initial list of independent developers aren't small or unknown enough.
Good initial list :)
No Jonathan Blow or Oddworld Inhabitants, though.
No Jonathan Blow or Oddworld Inhabitants, though.
You're all slightly missing the point with crytek.
Their game will end up on the same store with all the same opportunities as my little indie game. Crytek may have multiple routes to the store, and indies, just one. But once it's on the store, it's a level playing field
It'll be interesting to see, when MS flip the switch and make retail Xbox One's devkits (in a meaningful way), what sort of requirements they have on submissions. It may be that anyone can dev for Xbox One, but your game has to meet a certain quality bar for it to get on the store
Their game will end up on the same store with all the same opportunities as my little indie game. Crytek may have multiple routes to the store, and indies, just one. But once it's on the store, it's a level playing field
It'll be interesting to see, when MS flip the switch and make retail Xbox One's devkits (in a meaningful way), what sort of requirements they have on submissions. It may be that anyone can dev for Xbox One, but your game has to meet a certain quality bar for it to get on the store
How is the list "barebones" because the studios have put out games before?Originally Posted by TheRealTalker
nice to see an update on this
Edit: WarThunder devs in that list and ex Sony XDev Double Eleven
Edit2: (list is more bare bone when looking at the fact that most of these guys put out retail games *of course with the help of publishers)
Edit3: Hope they push out more devkits to more indies in the long run (they need to close the gap of nextgen indie titles being only on PC/WiiU/PS4)
Yeah, but Crytek has a significant advantage over your games. They have a previous relationship and is a known quantity, so they will probably get pushed to the front page of the store and promoted more easily while you as a smaller company probably need somebody at MS to champion you to get anywhere near the front of the line.Originally Posted by James Coote
You're all slightly missing the point with crytek.
Their game will end up on the same store with all the same opportunities as my little indie game. Crytek may have multiple routes to the store, and indies, just one. But once it's on the store, it's a level playing field
It'll be interesting to see, when MS flip the switch and make retail Xbox One's devkits (in a meaningful way), what sort of requirements they have on submissions. It may be that anyone can dev for Xbox One, but your game has to meet a certain quality bar for it to get on the store
Well, there's one! :)Originally Posted by Robert at Zeboyd Games
We're a two person team and we're on the list. :)
For the record, their rejection letters were very cute!
What is Sony doing that MS isn't? Is Sony just allowing any serious indie devloper to get there hands on PS3/PS4/PSV or are they hand picking them like MS is doing(or at least that's what it seems like it)?
Only in gaming does it seem like being organized to a point where you're more than just one dude in his basement somehow disqualify you from being "indie" and your inclusion on a list of indie devs is seen as, "subverting the idea behind this indie movement."
TIMED? Console Indies are shit, will buy on PC then.Originally Posted by BlackBuzzard
http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/8/4602...ther-platforms
Seems to me like its timed.
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