That's not my intent, I just won't try and change people's minds about it. It's a lost cause.Yeah, you keep on ignoring people who are responding directly to your misinformed bullshit.
Forza 5 is a only on next gen consoles, limiting themselves to a smaller user base and it is a franchise that does not sell as much as GT.
why in gods name is Sony being greedy with their biggest franchise
why in gods name is Sony being greedy with their biggest franchise
Exactly my feelings.Originally Posted by alexandros
Some of the responses here, in a core gamer forum, sadden me and frighten me in equal measure. The iceberg is in front of us yet the band keeps playing.
This too. Well put.Originally Posted by Cumpkin Hubris
If the amount of in-game busywork is set at G1, all the people under the curve to the right are willing to go through that, so they won't purchase any of the microtransactions.
If you have MTAs in the game, the bean-counters will realise this and say, hey if you move it up a bit - say up to G2 - all the people under the graph to the left aren't willing to complete the grind (for whatever reason, maybe they are lazy, maybe they just don't have enough time). Now they're potential MTA customers. A lot of them will just say fuck it and just not complete the game, but some of them - and it doesn't take many to make this worth it - will buy something that will accelerate their progress or make the game easier in some way.
With these launch games, of course they will initially set the grind level the same as the previous game. This is all about setting the tone for the next-gen, as evidenced by the sheer number of launch titles with MTAs in them. Make them just part of gamers background noise, and you can stick them in any game! I personally find it abhorrent.
Last edited by NullPointer; Yesterday at 07:49 PM.
Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
(Yesterday, 07:46 PM)
I do. 5's grinding was pretty bad, double so with cash for multiple 20,000,000 max credit cars.IF the normal progression of the game is the same, and if that is comprable to what the highest priced cars in previous games cost, I have no issue with this.
IF
The duping and stuff that went on before Polyphony closed that gate should've signaled a need to reduce the credits needed to buy cars. But it seems it didn't, I guess because of Sony's instancing/them copying Forza and needing a reason to buy credits instead of just grinding races.
Originally Posted by phosphor112
This game has the same economy as GT5.
One seasonal race in GT5 with 2x Christmas bonus.
Such is the hard life of a GT credit earner. =[
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thread...-money.270407/
EDIT:
Same race without Christmas bonus but with daily login bonus:
To be fair that seasonal is extremely hard and unless your a GT veteran asking usual GT players to get 1st in that race consistently is stupid.Can someone post this in the OP. Such a utter non issue with way seasonals crammed money down your throat.
Originally Posted by RoboPlato
Holy crap. How the hell does this shit happen? I feel really bad for racing sim fans right now.
Both games will be fine. I doubt any of us fans of sim racers will feel any grind in either game.while i do condemn this type of business and have already in my posts, if GT6's economy and reward system is similar to GT5's , we shouldnt have to grind 1/1000th as much as Forza 5's problem. that game got fucked up.
I've yet to feel like I'm grinding in Forza 5. Heck, I've never felt like I was "grinding" in any Forza or GT over the years. I enjoy racing and buying/customizing cars. If I didn't, I wouldn't buy the games.
As long as I don't have to start purchasing "gas packs" and "tire packs" JUST to race, I'm ok with people paying to get things early.
They must always allow me to access what's on the disc by JUST playing the game though. That's when I'll start getting mad. (hey, it has happened in other games)
Best thing to do is speak up about it (especially in their forums or through twitter/e-mail) if you simply don't like Micro-transactions at all.
Man kinda conflicted. I love the GT series and had this one pre-ordered. But I don't want to send the wrong message by buying it though.
Guess I'll wait for a semi price drop or a second hand copy.
Guess I'll wait for a semi price drop or a second hand copy.
Forza 5: campaign designed to encourage buying credits.
GT6: campaign same as always BUT gives you an OPTION to buy credits.
GT6: campaign same as always BUT gives you an OPTION to buy credits.
Yeah, sure they are the same. yup.Wrong. Read again. I am not telling you to hate anything, I am telling you these are identical practices, and should be addressed as such. You can't be a relativist about the practice of microtransactions in this circumstance, because both games do it, but both titles allow you to progress without them.
Officially not buying this now. Thanks for the thread and awareness.
That is how I feel. Screw it, I'm not getting this. I have GRID 2 for free that I can get my racing fix with. Plus I just bought FFXIV that I will be devoting a ton of time to.Originally Posted by alexandros
Some of the responses here, in a core gamer forum, sadden me and frighten me in equal measure. The iceberg is in front of us yet the band keeps playing.
No, you were never forced into microtransactions with Forza. That was never the case and is just a piece of information that seems to have gotten far more twisted as it got spread along.Originally Posted by silver.tongue
That's the thing, people usually only listen/read to the part of the information that they like or that matters to them. Initially, people saw how hard it was to make money in Forza, that's why the outrage, because it felt like you were forced into microtransactions.
I don't have Forza either, but apparently T10 made some changes that allow you to make money quick, right?
It's sad that it took an internet outrage to get that going, but at least it worked.
People didn't 'see' how hard it was to get money in Forza. People jumped to a lot of ignorant assumptions. They treated this as fact and then spread it to others. Before long, everybody and their dogs(most of which didn't have any knowledge or experience with Forza) were experts on how Forza was and told everybody how awful it was. That's still going on, actually, I don't know why I'm saying 'was' as if that's past tense.
You could also be sending a positive message by buying it, since the game is going to have oodles of free concept cars called Vision GT cars.Man kinda conflicted. I love the GT series and had this one pre-ordered. But I don't want to send the wrong message by buying it though.
Guess I'll wait for a semi price drop or a second hand copy.
http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gt6/vgt/
Just don't buy the credits. That sends a perfectly clear message to both Sony and other developers.
Given that they're giving away a bunch of cars for pre-ordering the game... can you just use those cars for the bulk of the game?
Go ask in the Forza thread how many people have had to resort to buying tokens to further progression.Forza 5: campaign designed to encourage buying credits.
GT6: campaign same as always BUT gives you and OPTION to buy credits.
I'm sure you'll find enough to back up those claims.
In the case of these driving games, the microtransactions deliver content.Originally Posted by Seanspeed
Can somebody explain to me how the amount of content matters?
If the game is content starved, the desire to acquire more content, i.e. pay for microtransactions, is increased.
If the game is jam packed with quality cars and tracks then that demand is lessened.
Not a great example but the most expensive car in Forza is the only F1 car in the game. That makes it appealing. If Polyphony made a special edition Skyline the most expensive car in the game , barely anyone would care.
Then i have no problem with it although i wonder how long will it be until developers are tempted to slow traditional progress in order to push for more microtransactions.The issue is, will Gran Turismo's progression system be adversely affected by microtransactions? Eurogamer's Martin Robinson has been playing the game and tells me GT6's economy works exactly the same as GT5's, with progression, payouts and car prices very similar.
Dark times ahead...
I love all of you that are saying this is okay but blast Forza.
I only have a problem with this kinda stuff if they gimp making money in game to help make you more tempted to buy credits.
I only have a problem with this kinda stuff if they gimp making money in game to help make you more tempted to buy credits.
There are also those who see it as the thin edge of a wedge, like Phil Harrison.Originally Posted by Seanspeed
No, you were never forced into microtransactions with Forza. That was never the case and is just a piece of information that seems to have gotten far more twisted as it got spread along.
People didn't 'see' how hard it was to get money in Forza. People jumped to a lot of ignorant assumptions. They treated this as fact and then spread it to others. Before long, everybody and their dogs(most of which didn't have any knowledge or experience with Forza) were experts on how Forza was and told everybody how awful it was. That's still going on, actually, I don't know why I'm saying 'was' as if that's past tense.
Comparing the economies of GT5 and GT6 has no merit because Polyphony's monetization plans already began during GT5's development and was reflected in patches.
after so many pages, finally a comment I can agree with.Originally Posted by instinct6142
Forza 5 is a only on next gen consoles, limiting themselves to a smaller user base and it is a franchise that does not sell as much as GT.
why in gods name is Sony being greedy with their biggest franchise
not that I agree with microsoft's approach, but sony really didnt have to go there.
p.s. seeing people trying to say "bad MT forza, good MT gt", oh boy, are these funny or what?
Why have I had no problem buying cars or racing in every event so far in that game then?Forza 5: campaign designed to encourage buying credits.
I've seen the option to buy "tokens" and "accelerated XP". I've yet to use them and have millions I'm not spending. Heck, I have more cars than I need right now. There are so many races I can run with the cars I currently have, that it will take me a few weeks just to run all their races...before I would even need another car. (In the mean time..I'm racking up millions)
I don't think money in Forza 5 or GT6 will ever be a problem...unless you're just horrid and end up in last place every time.
boycotting this. you should to the same.
I never isolated EA as being the only company who did it. Everyone did. 2K games with NBA 2K - extra money to buy items and xp for your player. So many other companies have done it.Are you implying it's ok because EA (Worst Company in America™) have done it and are assuming no one had a problem with it there? Mass Effect 3 MP was ruined by the Project Dollars lottery system.
So would it make people feel better if PD took it out as a feature?
The argument will still be there because it's not a new thing.
Good post.Originally Posted by Cumpkin Hubris
That's the thing. Once they're in the game there will always be pressure to do this.
If the amount of in-game busywork is set at G1, all the people under the curve to the right are willing to go through that, so they won't purchase any of the microtransactions.
If you have MTAs in the game, the bean-counters will realise this and say, hey if you move it up a bit - say up to G2 - all the people under the graph to the left aren't willing to complete the grind (for whatever reason, maybe they are lazy, maybe they just don't have enough time). Now they're potential MTA customers. A lot of them will just say fuck it and just not complete the game, but some of them - and it doesn't take many to make this worth it - will buy something that will accelerate their progress or make the game easier in some way.
With these launch games, of course they will initially set the grind level the same as the previous game. This is all about setting the tone for the next-gen, as evidenced by the sheer number of launch titles with MTAs in them. Make them just part of gamers background noise, and you can stick them in any game! I personally find it abhorrent.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is fair to pay for better options in a game with multiplayer? This is why I avoid a lot MMOs with that pay to be better crap
I will buy the game, just not the DLC. I mean, I only bought DLC in GT5 once anyway for Spa. That's the only kind of DLC I desire.
I don't like those prices either, they should double the credit redeems.
I don't like those prices either, they should double the credit redeems.
That's everything in business. It's all trying to sell on someone's fear. The difference between this and gambling is that this is just an option to the normal gameplay, while gambling is what it is. Nothing has been changed to the in-game economy to suit it from what we can tell.Originally Posted by Untalkative_Bunny
Oh god...you people are the reason it took so long to get gambling addiction programs off the ground. Preying on human weaknesses like addiction is vile.
If someone has that type of problem, maybe people in their lives need to be involved to keep that from happening, just like when it comes to their damn children having credit card access. Have certain restrictions set in place, or someone to keep control of the finances that isn't involved.
And cheat codes were always free bullshit argument doesn't work as well as people have been capitalizing on them since the 90s. Tips&Tricks, ActionReplay, BrainBoy, guide books...people take for granted the amount of freedom the current internet provides in sharing information.
But this isn't necessarily addiction. Maybe to some it is, but can't that then be applied to everything? Addicted to buying the latest and greatest tech iteration (Apple), having to collect cards in either a collection or competitive standpoint, sales to encourage people to pay more than they would have originally due to each individual price being cheaper or getting something cheaper in addition, and so on and so forth.
It's just another cog in the capitalism machine.
Edit: Not defending microtransactions, but if they are going to be around like certain things are from last gen, than I'd rather deal with something like this (not so egregiously priced though) than something where the gameplay itself is compromised and the microtransactions are central to the design.
Last edited by ArkkAngel007; Yesterday at 08:02 PM.
That is ridiculous pricing.
Cheekiest way I found to get ridiculously priced cars in GT5 before, was to log in on your birthday (change the date on your console), you would get a car in the form of a gift. Can take a while to grind and get a decent car... But I ended up with the Ferrari 330 (20m too) for free.
Now I wonder if this exploit will be present in GT6?!
Cheekiest way I found to get ridiculously priced cars in GT5 before, was to log in on your birthday (change the date on your console), you would get a car in the form of a gift. Can take a while to grind and get a decent car... But I ended up with the Ferrari 330 (20m too) for free.
Now I wonder if this exploit will be present in GT6?!
I am not taking a side on either game but I have seen people saying they have no problem getting cars in Forza 5 but a lot of them have also gotten big payouts for playing earlier forza's is this the same for you and also what would it be like if you did not get that bonus like me if I were to pickup forza having never played an earlier one?Originally Posted by shandy706
Why have I had no problem buying cars or racing in every event so far in that game then?
I've seen the option to buy "tokens" and "accelerated XP". I've yet to use them and have millions I'm not spending. Heck, I have more cars than I need right now. There are so many races I can run with the cars I currently have, that it will take me a few weeks just to run all their races...before I would even need another car. (In the mean time..I'm racking up millions)
I don't think money in Forza 5 or GT6 will ever be a problem...unless you're just horrid and end up in last place every time.
There are performance points limits for multiplayer. Just because you bought that fancy Bugatti Veyron, doesn't mean you can use it in a race against Honda Civics. You can, however, race it in matches where other people bought them legitimately, and get your ass handed to you because you haven't put in the same wheel time as them.Originally Posted by metalslimer
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is fair to pay for better options in a game with multiplayer? This is why I avoid a lot MMOs with that pay to be better crap
Pay to win is not so simple with racing games where online races have limits that can be set so you're not racing supercars against daily drivers.Originally Posted by metalslimer
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is fair to pay for better options in a game with multiplayer? This is why I avoid a lot MMOs with that pay to be better crap
This is the height of false equivalency. One game was designed around purchasing microtransactions by altering the in game currency and gimping modes, one game doesn't. The progression in GT6 is the same and by some reports easier than GT5.Wrong. Read again. I am not telling you to hate anything, I am telling you these are identical practices, and should be addressed as such. You can't be a relativist about the practice of microtransactions in this circumstance, because both games do it, but both titles allow you to progress without them.
Declaring microtransacions = identical doesn't foster any reasonable debate and is just plain lazy.
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