If they hand out copies of GT6 and Forza 5 for free, I'm sure nobody will complain. The issue now is micro-transaction in $60 games, which hasn't been a thing before.Originally Posted by MrCookiepants
I don't get the bitching about micro transactions NOW. This has been going on for years, guys. We've allowed it to get to this point. We have only ourselves to blame for buying hats in TF2.
Saying you're not going to support Forza or Gran Turismo is not going to change anything. I accept this as long as I'm not at a disadvantage if I choose not to pay.
I do not see the problem with that. You can play the game normally and get the cars like you did in all the other games, or you have the option to spend money to get stuff faster. It's kinda like if they gave you a quarter of heart in Zelda for 1 $ each. They are still ingame, but if you want it now, you can pay.
Vote with your wallets. Don't buy that crap
Welp, this is shitty and stupid. Gran turismo already sells a shit ton, there is no need for this kind of bullshit.
It's more like you can buy hearts for $ 20 each, or have to grind moblins for three hours. It's one thing to nickel and dime for nickels and dimes, it's another thing entirely to charge three times the normal price of a game and still not having unlocked anything close to the on-disc stuff.I do not see the problem with that. You can play the game normally and get the cars like you did in all the other games, or you have the option to spend money to get stuff faster. It's kinda like if they gave you a quarter of heart in Zelda for 1 $ each. They are still ingame, but if you want it now, you can pay.
I've never used those events and I find the progression fine in GT5. It's even easier than previous GTs with the B-Spec option. I've completed everything in the game, endurance races are a breeze also because you're able to pause the race.I agree.
Do you people think seasonal events are still gonna give decent pay outs?
GT5 grinding was HORRIBLE before those events, now with this micro transaction bullshit, I don't think Polyphony is going to be that charitable this time around...
If you can't see the correlation and how this is bringing gaming to a sad state, then you are blind, don't support this shit, seriously.
The thing is that they know most people wont touch this stuff, but they know a small percentage of people will put down heavy cash for this kind of stuff. They will still put it in even if most people wont buy it, and it will still affect gameplay.Originally Posted by ComputerMKII
Vote with your wallets. Don't buy that crap
If you really want them to see whats what then don't buy the game at all(or at least don't buy it at above 30$).
So if they were free to play, $100+ for a car would be okay?If they hand out copies of GT6 and Forza 5 for free, I'm sure nobody will complain. The issue now is micro-transaction in $60 games, which hasn't been a thing before.
Ya'll don't even know what you're complaining about anymore.
Core gameplay microtransactions in a regularly priced game afaik started with Dead Space 3. I did not buy that game, I won't buy this or the Xbone games.Originally Posted by MrCookiepants
I don't get the bitching about micro transactions NOW. This has been going on for years, guys. We've allowed it to get to this point. We have only ourselves to blame for buying hats in TF2.
Saying you're not going to support Forza or Gran Turismo is not going to change anything. I accept this as long as I'm not at a disadvantage if I choose not to pay.
And hell yeah it's going to change if these games start bombaing because of our ruckus. Same as the Xbone.
No that would still be highly immoral because you know they're preying on the weak, just like loan sharks. But at least that would be part of a commercial model that I'm not completely opposed to, seeing as I don't feel entitled to anything because I didn't pay up front.Originally Posted by MrCookiepants
So if they were free to play, $100+ for a car would be okay?
I see this differently.Ya'll don't even know what you're complaining about anymore.
We need a little surgeon general style warning label on the cover of each game containing this crap. "Be Advised: This product contains microtransactions".The thing is that they know most people wont touch this stuff, but they know a small percentage of people will put down heavy cash for this kind of stuff. They will still put it in even if most people wont buy it, and it will still affect gameplay.
If you really want them to see whats what then don't buy the game at all(or at least don't buy it at above 30$).
I'm really blown away by how many people are still walking into this thread without reading the opening post.Originally Posted by ironcreed
LOL, you guys need to wake up and smell the stale coffee. Both Microsoft and Sony have designs on pulling shit like this and no amount of 'it's for the gamers!' marketing is going to change that.
This entire thread can be summed up by this:
and yet you have no evidence of this....you will by friday/this weekend though. Then maybe you can accuse Polyphony of "not being charitable"...until then it's speculation. But then again, according to some with the game already, it's the same as GT5I agree.
Do you people think seasonal events are still gonna give decent pay outs?
GT5 grinding was HORRIBLE before those events, now with this micro transaction bullshit, I don't think Polyphony is going to be that charitable this time around...
If you can't see the correlation and how this is bringing gaming to a sad state, then you are blind, don't support this shit, seriously.
Hold on, let me just pull a few stacks of bills from the enormous bale of Benjamins I'm burning in my backyard.
Complains that you don't want to grind to get a car.
Can save the grind and buy car instead.
Complains about that too
NeoGAF in a nutshell.
This thread is really embarassing
You think MT question is as simple as 2 lines? Well... MAYBE you didn't think enough. MAYBE some people think ahead and got more thoughts in this matter than you did.
Now you can disagree with them, no problem with that. But if you had red the thread (or even only some good posts in it) you would know that the problem is way more complex than that.
Pretty arrogant to have thought that you could "counter" pages an pages or arguments (that you may not share... ok) with the most unthought two lines of the whole thread.
Maybe you should think a bit before posting such an condescending speech.
As long as game economy is unaffected and there is no "jetons" "diamonds" or similar intrusive buttons i see 0 issue.
could you give me a short example of these "arguments"..?You think MT question is as simple as 2 lines? Well... MAYBE you didn't think enough. MAYBE some people think ahead and got more thoughts in this matter than you did.
Now you can disagree with them, no problem with that. But if you had red the thread (or even only some good posts in it) you would know that the problem is way more complex than that.
Pretty arrogant to have thought that you could "counter" pages an pages or arguments (that you may not share... ok) with the most unthought two lines of the whole thread.
Maybe you should think a bit before posting such an condescending speech.
That is pretty heinous, and I don't like the tendency of free2play games to prey on children for this kind of stuff, but that is kind of besides the point.Originally Posted by MrCookiepants
So if they were free to play, $100+ for a car would be okay?
Ya'll don't even know what you're complaining about anymore.
Everyone expects free 2 play games to be warped in some fashion or another in order to profit off of peoples desire to continue playing the game properly. However people tend to have different expectations for games released at full price, because of the fact that the profit has already been garnered by the sale of the game to the user.
It is expected that there will be a full game experience in the box not affected by the ailments common to f2p games.
I wonder if this mess will be happily swept under the rug by game journos just like they did it with Forza 5.
If you're going to implement some kind of exchange rate between real money and GT funbux, take a minute to see how much real money someone would have to spend to purchase the most expensive (single) item in the game and make sure it's less than the price of the game itself.
The only reason to spend real money on this game is to unlock the high-end cars without the grind, but the pricing is such that doing this would be prohibitively expensive for most people. On the other hand, probably very few people would bother spending any real money on their next virtual Skyline. Honestly, charging five bucks or so to unlock each high-end car might be more profitable than this.
The only reason to spend real money on this game is to unlock the high-end cars without the grind, but the pricing is such that doing this would be prohibitively expensive for most people. On the other hand, probably very few people would bother spending any real money on their next virtual Skyline. Honestly, charging five bucks or so to unlock each high-end car might be more profitable than this.
Last edited by nded; Today at 09:45 AM.
I haven't seen anything to suggest that GT6 will not be a "full game experience". I'm not going to pay for credits. I'm going to play the game just as I always have done.That is pretty heinous, and I don't like the tendency of free2play games to prey on children for this kind of stuff, but that is kind of besides the point.
Everyone expects free 2 play games to be warped in some fashion or another in order to profit off of peoples desire to continue playing the game properly. However people tend to have different expectations for games released at full price, because of the fact that the profit has already been garnered by the sale of the game to the user.
It is expected that there will be a full game experience in the box not affected by the ailments common to f2p games.
If some idiot wants to spend all that money on micro transactions, then let them. They get what they want, I get what I want and PD gets some extra money. Nobody is losing here.
Firstly the grind in GT game is mostly to collect the cars. A spec grind is not that bad and getting a $160 does not save the grind lol.Originally Posted by VanWinkle
"Can save the grind and buy the car for only $160 instead! AND YOU GUYS ARE COMPLAINING?!! EMBARASSING!"
Its entirely that persons choice is he/she wants to buy the car for that ridiculous price. That car is not needed for A spec, you can buy cars much faster for 100-200k so in the end it comes why are you buying the car.
1) See Forza backlash
2) Do the exact same thing (I doubt the economy hasn't been fiddled with)
May not be as crippled as Forza but it's the same bad smell. Honestly there needs to be a community maintained master index of which games contain microtransactions, how ridiculous they are and whether it seems like the game was made artificially hard/grindy to push them.
2) Do the exact same thing (I doubt the economy hasn't been fiddled with)
May not be as crippled as Forza but it's the same bad smell. Honestly there needs to be a community maintained master index of which games contain microtransactions, how ridiculous they are and whether it seems like the game was made artificially hard/grindy to push them.
Last edited by system11; Today at 09:47 AM.
Okay, let say we take Final Fantasy 1. Take the same exact game, do not change a thing on it, but give it the option to gain a level for 1 $ or go to max level for 75$. Would you have a problem with that? It's the exact same game, but you have microtransaction as an option.It's more like you can buy hearts for $ 20 each, or have to grind moblins for three hours. It's one thing to nickel and dime for nickels and dimes, it's another thing entirely to charge three times the normal price of a game and still not having unlocked anything close to the on-disc stuff.
I do not mind it if it's like that. But if they build the game with the idea that they have to push Microtransaction, then I have a problem. I do not want the Candy crush model on a 60$ game. Candy Crush is hard and annoying, but it's free and if I really wanted to I could spend money on it. Here it's 60$, I do not want artificial difficulty and you say "Hey, you seem to have problem, wanna buy powerups for 1$?"
But from what I read, GT5 was really grindy too, so it look like GT6 is like GT5 but with an option to pay to not grind, which is good. As long as there is no major bonus for paying and that all the paid content is found in game for the regular amount of time, I have no problem.
The problem is PD getting money from microtransactions. It's a problem because once that is established as a legitimate revenue stream in a $60 game, there will be pressure to alter the in-game economy to maximise the amount collected. The tendency will be to increase it to a level that is prohibitive to most people (already a common tactic in f2p games), as this gives you a larger number of potential microtransaction customers.Originally Posted by MrCookiepants
I haven't seen anything to suggest that GT6 will not be a "full game experience". I'm not going to pay for credits. I'm going to play the game just as I always have done.
If some idiot wants to spend all that money on micro transactions, then let them. They get what they want, I get what I want and PD gets some extra money. Nobody is losing here.
I don't get why giving players the option of spending their money to speed up the process should suddenly force them to make the game free for everyone else? Maybe I'm missing something.Originally Posted by IISANDERII
EA doesn't force you to pay in their F2P mobile games either. And they're wonderful.
There have already been comments from those that have played it, that the economy is similar to GT5. And you are not promoted to buy at any point in the game (a key problem for me in f2P games)1) See Forza backlash
2) Do the exact same thing (I doubt the economy hasn't been fiddled with)
May not be as crippled as Forza but it's the same bad smell.
Doesn't forza 5 put those options right in front of you? Don't have enough tokens? Buy a pack from the store?
And you can go ahead and blame them when they do change that economy. And they could have easily done so, witnessing the competition. But they haven't now, so for the next 3 years at least, it looks like we're safe and we should be grateful they did the sensible thing.Originally Posted by Cumpkin Hubris
The problem is PD getting money from microtransactions. It's a problem because once that is established as a legitimate revenue stream in a $60 game, there will be pressure to alter the in-game economy to maximise the amount collected. The tendency will be to increase it to a level that is prohibitive to most people (already a common tactic in f2p games), as this gives you a larger number of potential microtransaction customers.
Forza suggests cars you have to purchase all the time, reduced the numbers of cars, worsened the game economy, took away prize cars, charges for testing out cars you don't have yet, reduced the number of cars you can drive in 'arcade' mode (if it has such a thing, GT does), and so on and so forth.
Right. As long as it doesn't say,There have already been comments from those that have played it, that the economy is similar to GT5. And you are not promoted to buy at any point in the game (a key problem for me in f2P games)
Doesn't forza 5 put those options right in front of you? Don't have enough tokens? Buy a pack from the store?
"you don't have enough to buy this car. Would you like to purchase currency from the store?"
every time I'm looking at something, I really don't have much of a problem with this.
Yes, thankfully T10 has answered to the criticism now and the rewards are starting make up for it, but pushing them constantly still leaves a bit of bad taste.There have already been comments from those that have played it, that the economy is similar to GT5. And you are not promoted to buy at any point in the game (a key problem for me in f2P games)
Doesn't forza 5 put those options right in front of you? Don't have enough tokens? Buy a pack from the store?
As for GT, I'm thankful that they didn't cripple the in-game economy or push the MTs in your face, but the prices are ridiculous; way beyond what I expected. So much, that I can't see that many people using them so I'm hoping they'll respond and drastically drop the prices.
could you give me a short example of these "arguments"..?
Originally Posted by Cumpkin Hubris
The problem is PD getting money from microtransactions. It's a problem because once that is established as a legitimate revenue stream in a $60 game, there will be pressure to alter the in-game economy to maximise the amount collected. The tendency will be to increase it to a level that is prohibitive to most people (already a common tactic in f2p games), as this gives you a larger number of potential microtransaction customers.
Originally Posted by IISANDERII
The duplication trick from GT5 was used almost universally because the grinding was too much. There was so much outcry when it was patched out that they had to patch it back in for a short time to give players their final chance to complete last moment duplications.
That was still hard to bear so to appease players, seasonals paid out a lot of money. But those seasonals expired and subsequent seasonals haven't paid nearly as much. The true grind was back in but by this time most players had most of the cars they wanted so not many cared.
Now we're at GT6 and if reports are true, it is indeed a grind again because we are back GT5 post duplication era.
But now we have all this content to unlock so players will care. So what does Polyphony do? They re-purpose the duplication trick so that this time you have to pay for it.
In GT5 I had 3 XJ13 that I got via the duplication so I didn't have to grind[and there are legitimate reasons for having 3 of the same car].
I can have the same in GT6 for Ģ360.
Originally Posted by NullPointer
The ones that aren't harmful are the ones that aren't tied to a game's progression system.
The ones that aren't selling you access to the basic game content on disk.
These *are* the harmful microtransactions.
Sell helmets and gloves and liveries and new content and extra space on their servers for HD photos and replays and whatever else. Put out expansions and tracks and car packs and kits and strategy guides and tunes.
Don't sell the XP. Don't sell the credits. Don't sell advancement. You pervert the very nature of the game when you do so.
VERY short version... there are more than 1000 posts in here! Look for Nullpointer's posts, Famousmortimer's, Untalkativebunny's...just some examples.75% of players did not even finish the Beginner championship in GT5 (look at the trophies stats if you don't believe me). That means 75% played career mode for less than 2 hours. (mind you : that doesn't mean they did not play arcade or online for years... )
As a game designer, having the huge majority of players abandoning your game before it even starts is a HUGE problem. And in an industry fighting against resale, not being able to make guys who payed 60$ play for 2 hours is a fault.
How did they fix it in GT6? Did they think: "Fuck... we gave up on our consumers here"? Did they change the game design? Did they throw away the grinding so that people who were disappointed by GT5 would be happy?
No: they didn't change anything (if we believe the people who have the game) and they make those people pay to skip a game mechanic they don't like in the first place.
Basically: they try to get more money from you because you don't enjoy the game they knew you would not enjoy in the first place. The same you that made their game so successful and that pays their bills. They screw you my friends.
There is not one good reason you should have to pay again to enjoy a game.
Many here say: "I would not buy it...but if some want...why preventing them?" In all those threads about MT I have never red anyone say:"I ll buy it because I love to pay stuff more than getting stuff for free!"
Noone pays a 100$ for a car if he has a choice. MT are manipulation of consumers. Plain and simple. As Jimquisition says: they put a moral choice in your head that should never be there. When you buy a game full price, you don't want to fight against temptation, you just want to play and enjoy the game.
Nobody says they should not get those cars/tracks... we say they get them for free! They payed for the content already. You pretend to defend people's right to pay...when we defend their right to get it for free! And tell me: why would you care if someone gets cars by cheating? As long as he can't use them against you online? Why do you not care if he pays, but care if he gets them for free? How would it impact on your own driving experience?
As you can see, some of us have really thought about it and MANY MANY see a problem with MT in fullpriced games (GT or else). You might think we are just stupid , some might not share our concerns...but say the problem does not exist is really condescending.
And after all the threads I red about MT, literally thousands and thousands of inputs, I could see that MT are a big issue for many. But I still can't see how not having MT and having content for free would be an issue for any gamer.
When boredom and disappointment make the devs earn more money, there is something very wrong going on don't you think?
Last edited by Solal; Today at 10:04 AM.
For me the issue is about Forza constantly spamming me with ads for microtransactions, not how much a car costs. If GT6 has menus filled up with ads it can go diaf.
Let's just vote with our wallets so the next-gen GT7 will be free of such folly.
I'm always afraid that the ignorant and the apologists will be in the majority (or at least there will be enough of them to make these anti-consumer practices financially viable) and ruin it for the rest of us.Let's just vote with our wallets so the next-gen GT7 will be free of such folly.
What really sucks about this is that this game will probably sell like hotcakes, and some of the people who bought it will no doubt spend money on the game after dropping 60 bucks on it, thus vindicating PD's decision to implement MT's in the game. I guess 5 was my last Gran Turismo. I only hope Evolution is pro-consumer enough as to not implement this shit into DriveClub.
Last edited by UltraGunner; Today at 10:20 AM.
I don't think any game designer would look at online trophy statistics to gauge how their game is being received, not with all the other channels available (online communities, direct feedback) to take information from, and especially not for a game series that continually sells 10 million plus.75% of players did not even finish the Beginner championship in GT5 (look at the trophies stats if you don't believe me). That means 75% played career mode for less than 2 hours. (mind you : that doesn't mean they did not play arcade or online for years... )
As a game designer, having the huge majority of players abandoning your game before it even starts is a HUGE problem. And in an industry fighting against resale, not being able to make guys who payed 60$ play for 2 hours is a fault.
Tweaking is always needed and can be done by speaking with the community, not overhauling game mechanics based on ropey statistics.
The important step, the one we're at right now, it the "establishing microtransactions as a legitimate revenue stream in $60 games".Originally Posted by Maastricht
And you can go ahead and blame them when they do change that economy. And they could have easily done so, witnessing the competition. But they haven't now, so for the next 3 years at least, it looks like we're safe and we should be grateful they did the sensible thing.
Forza suggests cars you have to purchase all the time, reduced the numbers of cars, worsened the game economy, took away prize cars, charges for testing out cars you don't have yet, reduced the number of cars you can drive in 'arcade' mode (if it has such a thing, GT does), and so on and so forth.
Microtransactions need to be strangled in its cradle.
I like the progression in GT games. Keeping a couple of cars and working your way up, its part of the fun.
The microtransactions leave a sour taste. I think if they have to be in then they should be a lot cheaper.
Now if you could use microtransactions to pass the Driving Licences Ill take 2!!!
The microtransactions leave a sour taste. I think if they have to be in then they should be a lot cheaper.
Now if you could use microtransactions to pass the Driving Licences Ill take 2!!!
Yoshida defended the implementation. He said that this option is in the game for people who do not have the time to properly earn the credits.
I can live with that, unless all the menus constantly shove the option into your face.
In the case of GT6 versus Forza I believe GT6 has no cars that you cannot obtain unless you pay real money. All cars can be bought - at least for now - using in-game credits. Whether or not you have those credits is up to you.
I can live with that, unless all the menus constantly shove the option into your face.
In the case of GT6 versus Forza I believe GT6 has no cars that you cannot obtain unless you pay real money. All cars can be bought - at least for now - using in-game credits. Whether or not you have those credits is up to you.
We'll see how the progression system has been altered. If it's in a way that will basically take you years to earn a high end car like forza, then that's fucked up.
I see the arguments.. I read the posts.. but the thing is.. IMO.. you are barking at the wrong tree here. the arguments are good, but they donīt fit this game (again IMO).VERY short version... there are more than 1000 posts in here! Look for Nullpointer's posts, Famousmortimer's, Untalkativebunny's...just some examples.
As you can see, some of us have really thought about it and MANY MANY see a problem with MT in fullpriced games (GT or else). You might think we are just stupid , some might not share our concerns...but say the problem does not exist is really condescending.
And after all the threads I red about MT, literally thousands and thousands of inputs, I could see that MT are a big issue for many. But I still can't see how not having MT and having content for free would be an issue for any gamer.
When boredom and disappointment make the devs earn more money, there is something very wrong going on don't you think?
In GT6 you are not bombarded with "YOU CAN BUY THIS THING WITH YOUR REAL MONEY" stuff. Itīs not something that pops up and is interfering with the game. Itīs an option you can chose if you want a car and donīt want to use the time to earn the money by playing the game.
GT6 stays the same as the previous game (the Eurogamer article even states it), so they didnīt alter the game in any way to make it harder or different to earn stuff by playing the game. Itīs the exact same gameplay with an added "option" to buy stuff with money. They didnīt change anything..
I get the point that this is a 60$ retail game (even more expensive where I live) and that adding Microtransactions, this might set precedence for other games.. but that is speculation... what isnīt speculation is that from the previews - gaf impressions - GTplanet impressions and more, this game is still the same as it used to be, just with added microtransactions that can make the game more accesible to people who do not like the grind (which is normal in GT games) but still want to drive some of the expensive cars.
but that is all my opinion.. I donīt mind microtransactions if they work like this, but if they hide stuff behind a paywall and alter the gameplay to further the microtransactions then I have a problem with it.
I don't even understand what's the point in buying that Jag if the game follows the previous GT formula: What advantage does it give to you ?
In all the previous GTs you start out in career mode with a modest budget allowing you to only buy a decent second hand car and you race against modest comptetion in Sunday Cups. Entrance to the diferent races is often limited to a specific type of vehicle and you can easily raise through the ranks and win/buy your own fast cars soon enough..
And if you upgraded your cheap starter Impreza or Evo to the max and put slicks on it if performed just as good as a supercar costing dozens of times as much.
What good would that supercar be if you can only enter a handfull of amateur level races with it at the start of the game that can easily be won as well with the much cheaper cars that you can buy with your starting budget ? So you can win the Sunday Cup one minute ahead of the AI in the Civics ? Seems like a complete waste of money of you ask me.
In all the previous GTs you start out in career mode with a modest budget allowing you to only buy a decent second hand car and you race against modest comptetion in Sunday Cups. Entrance to the diferent races is often limited to a specific type of vehicle and you can easily raise through the ranks and win/buy your own fast cars soon enough..
And if you upgraded your cheap starter Impreza or Evo to the max and put slicks on it if performed just as good as a supercar costing dozens of times as much.
What good would that supercar be if you can only enter a handfull of amateur level races with it at the start of the game that can easily be won as well with the much cheaper cars that you can buy with your starting budget ? So you can win the Sunday Cup one minute ahead of the AI in the Civics ? Seems like a complete waste of money of you ask me.
Last edited by Vitten; Today at 10:36 AM.
Of course they have more intel than me. I am just using the one I have (which happens to be the trophy stats THEY put in place: no reason to doubt it).Originally Posted by travisbickle
I don't think any game designer would look at online trophy statistics to gauge how their game is being received, not with all the other channels available (online communities, direct feedback) to take information from, and especially not for a game series that continually sells 10 million plus.
Tweaking is always needed and can be done by speaking with the community, not overhauling game mechanics based on ropey statistics.
And don't get me started about GT dealing with the community feedback ... I don't want to get banned. ;-)
Microtransactions have no right to be in a full priced game. What a load of bullshit. Seriously, if people are dumb enough to take advantage of these options in full priced games things will only get worse.
Last edited by Macapala; Today at 10:45 AM.
I got the game today, i have played all day and if i didnt read on foruns about microtransactions i would never guess the game had them.
Game economy and progress works the same way as GT5. Win a race, get credits, make gold in a special event/ championship get you a free car, etc.
Gran Turismo since GT1 is a grindy game, ur not suposed to have the best car in 2 days, if you want that in GT6 you have to work for it. If u dont want to grind, probably GT is not the game for you.
I see the option for micro transactions as a way for more casual gamers get his dream car faster (example Veyron for 2 million credits) Fans of GT will play the game as they always did it before. If you like GT, have time to play and even so you buy credits with real money, im sorry but you are an idiot.
Game economy and progress works the same way as GT5. Win a race, get credits, make gold in a special event/ championship get you a free car, etc.
Gran Turismo since GT1 is a grindy game, ur not suposed to have the best car in 2 days, if you want that in GT6 you have to work for it. If u dont want to grind, probably GT is not the game for you.
I see the option for micro transactions as a way for more casual gamers get his dream car faster (example Veyron for 2 million credits) Fans of GT will play the game as they always did it before. If you like GT, have time to play and even so you buy credits with real money, im sorry but you are an idiot.
| Thread Tools | |