NeoGAF

Originally Posted by otapnam

some logical sane person will make a comparison thread where they show how long it takes to make credits in both games and what it takes to get the most expensive car in each through in game credits without MT

Shush you. Logic and sanity are not to be found here.

This is no place for waiting for accurate information about the economy from plenty of different perspectives. Most people in here didn't bother to even read the article that said the economy was basically the same as GT5. Even though that's not the kind of detail we really need to make an informed judgment, that should be enough to temper people from immediately going into fits.

There will be more than enough data out there within a few days of release to make an informed judgment. It took that amount of time for dozens of data sets to come out for Forza, and they mostly showed that the game was fucked by f2p-esque design.

I've seen some initial impressions from those who have had the game for days and none of them had said it was hard to earn credits, in fact quite the opposite. This could change in a day one patch though. So I'm holding off on Gt6 until I get solid evidence that the progression isn't deliberately screwed in order to influence people to buy credits, but so far, the initial signs have been encouraging.

It does bum me out that they are there because I have to wait a few days to see what the economy is like to see if I can enjoy it instead of being able to buy it day 1 with no concerns like I usually have with GT games.

I guess microtransactions in full retail games are the future if this thread is anything to go by.

Can't wait to see the defense of micros in Dark Souls II, Mario 3D Land II, Halo V, The Last of US II, etc.

The video, below, showcases GT6's cars and reveals one of the top priced, the Jaguar XJ13, which costs 20 million credits. You can grind for it in traditional Gran Turismo fashion or you can buy it straight away if you drop £119.95 - that's the total you pay for two packs of 7m credits, two packs of 2.5m credits and one pack of 1m credits.

The issue is, will Gran Turismo's progression system be adversely affected by microtransactions? Eurogamer's Martin Robinson has been playing the game and tells me GT6's economy works exactly the same as GT5's, with progression, payouts and car prices very similar.

Sounds like a total and complete zero issue then. You can do it the old fashioned way or you can pay money so that you don't have to play the game you purchased. To me, this is the ideal approach for microtransactions in full priced games. People who just want to play the old fashioned way can do that, people who want to pay money to have less gameplay can do that, and devs/pubs get more money in their pocket without hurting the core gamers.

Originally Posted by Kiraly

Well tough luck, as the Jaguar was 20 million in GT5 as well and no one was complaining about that. The car can be driven for free in the arcade mode. Let me reinterate that it does not say anywhere in the game you can buy money packs on the PSN store.

So many people are overlooking the fundamental diffrences between this and Forza just so they can proclaim Sony Too!

Originally Posted by Untalkative_Bunny

I guess microtransactions in full retail games are the future if this thread is anything to go by.

Can't wait to see the defense of micros in Dark Souls II, Mario 3D Land II, Halo V, The Last of US II, etc.

There are already pre-order weapons in Dark Souls 2. :(

There's a lot of "bah well I can't wait to see all the people slamming Turn 10 do 180s and defend Polyphony!" Polyphony and Turn 10 are doing microtransactions for their games. Both allow a car to be bought with $100 in real money. This is gross, nothing new for microtransactions but yeah, let's all get angry, sure.

Now consider with both of these games:

-One has redesigned their economy to make it more difficult to win, gift or earn cars, and no longer awards cars to the player. The other has no fundamental changes to the economy at all.

-One has a button designated as a microtransaction button- hit it to access a boosters option to earn XP faster. And if you don't want to press a button, then hey, we'll put it on the menus as well so you can select it. The other game doesn't have a way to purchase microtransactions at all within the game. You have to exit the game and search the store to find it.

-One has day one DLC car packs for the low price of $50. The other has DLC car packs that will also be rolling out day one and in the months to come, all free, all original cars designed by different manufacturers.

-One has a low amount of tracks with more as paid DLC to come. The other has over 30 and will likely have DLC tracks as well, but isn't missing any of the essentials such as the Ring.


So to recap: one game has XP boosters, money DLC, car premium packs, track premium packs, a low amount of cars and tracks to start with, and a changed economy to skew for less giftable cars, and the other has the same in-game economy with free car DLC, lots of cars and tracks, and no microtransactions within the game whatsoever.

Sorry if I'm not outraged at this news that the OP so desperately wants me to be.

IF the game isn't designed to force one to buy this content and this is there to exploit the last rich kids ,I am okay. BUT, if they end up generating a solid revenue out of this, hope their minds don't get corrupted and they replicate F5

Originally Posted by flyinpiranha

This is how you do it. According to what I've read:

1) Nothing has changed with the grind
2) They have not "withheld" cars/tracks/options for later purchasing (skeptical)
3) They don't advertise these credits on every screen of every part of the game

This is how it should be done. The option is there, but it's not shoved in our faces and the main game has not changed. Still tons of credits, still reward cars, etc ...

Wish I still had a PS3.

Originally Posted by The Real Napsta

See? Pay attention Forza, this is how you do it.

Wow. No?

Just because something is less bad doesn't make it good.

Originally Posted by Willy Wanka

I'm not seeing many people who don't understand this. Why does option B cost £120 instead of say £5, which while high would be more understandable?

I think some of the misconception comes from Eurogamer using the Jag XJ13 in its example. It's a super high-priced car. It's supposed to take you a while to earn enough credits to buy a car like that, at least it did in GT5. PD doesn't expect you to have a garage full of cars like that.

A better example is looking at what 1 million credits would get you, which costs £7.99.



I'd never pay for in-game credits, but it's more likely the people that will pay for them will be using them to buy an array of cars like the example above for a small amount, rather than drop 120 quid on a Jag.

Originally Posted by Bunta

They've actually played the game

And they didn't play Forza 5 before reviewing it?

Originally Posted by The Crimson Kid

Shush you. Logic and sanity are not to be found here.

This is no place for waiting for accurate information about the economy from plenty of different perspectives. Most people in here didn't bother to even read the article that said the economy was basically the same as GT5. Even though that's not the kind of detail we really need to make an informed judgment, that should be enough to temper people from immediately going into fits.

There will be more than enough data out there within a few days of release to make an informed judgment. It took that amount of time for dozens of data sets to come out for Forza, and they mostly showed that the game was fucked by f2p-esque design.

I've seen some initial impressions from those who have had the game for days and none of them had said it was hard to earn credits, in fact quite the opposite. This could change in a day one patch though. So I'm holding off on Gt6 until I get solid evidence that the progression isn't deliberately screwed in order to influence people to buy credits, but so far, the initial signs have been encouraging.

It does bum me out that they are there because I have to wait a few days to see what the economy is like to see if I can enjoy it instead of being able to buy it day 1 with no concerns like I usually have with GT games.

Or you could try to understand that others have a different POV instead shitting on them.

I'll repost this and I'd really like to know your thoughts on the subject:

Small thought experiment--

Would Demon's Souls have been a different game with a difficulty slider and/or cheat microtransaction dlc even if everything else about the game was the same?

My answer is yes, it would have been a fundamentally different game.

Originally Posted by Reallink

Joke post or you serious? GT6 is a competitive online game dude.

So???

Its not like you can race your 20 million car against a Fit, unless thats what you want. Getting a expensive car is not "win button"

With those prices for the booster packs I would just choose another game if I didn't have time to play it properly.

It might be less cynically implemented then in Forza, but people buying the packs won't be any smarter.

Originally Posted by GTP_Daverytimes

Nope, you are gifted cars as before, credits are as easy to come by as always, and you are never prompted to buy credits.

Then I have no issues. If people want to dump money to not race then I won't be upset. As long as they keep stuff like the seasonal races from 5 I'll be happy and I can play pretty casually.

edit: I shouldn't say I have no issues, but it bothers me less.

Originally Posted by Pyscho_Mantis

- Easier than GT5 to earn credits. Just saw a Class A race with 133k payout for first. From the preview it also looks there are any mentions of it in game unlike Forza. Thats all that needs to be said for me.

On other hand that pricing is ridiculous. The microtransactions are handed as they should, not affecting the economy and not constantly bugging you about them but the pricing is simply outrageous.

People are going to continue to ignore the payout difference.

IIRC FM5's payout is around 10k for most races. While GT5/6's only gets higher and higher.

High end races would get you 100-200 even 300k. Season races would get you sometimes 500-1200k depending on login bonus.

That's not remotely true for FM5.

God, why is this happening?

STAHP, JUST STAHP!

Originally Posted by Kiraly

Holy fuck you have no idea how the situation is, why even spout this bullshit

He has a point. There is no way to justify $50 for 7,000,000 in virtual currency in a game you just spent $60 on. It should be more along the lines of $1.99 for 1M credits all the way up to $12.99 for 7M. The pricing is absurd considering its a $60 game.

Originally Posted by purnoman3000

People pay more to fly than to drive somewhere, even though it will get you to the same place. Some people pay for express shipping to get a package faster. And people will pay to unlock cars in GT6 because they are impatient and rich. These are all option, just like most things in life.


.

Except those things legitimately cost more to do. The inherent costs of air travel are greater than car travel so you pay more for it...although that's not even always true since it can oftentimes be cheaper to take a plane or train or boat than to take a car.

This is digital content that costs $0.00 to produce...it's not even content.

Saying one example is better than another is missing the point.

Originally Posted by JoeTheBlow

Pay to avoid playing a game.

This baffles me.

Pay more to have fun playing games immediately

Originally Posted by peterb0y

Wow. No?

Just because something is less bad doesn't make it good.

It's not bad at all in GT6. The game is not designed around micros at all. The game itself doesn't even tell you that it features them. It's just there way in the background if you can't for whatever reason earn enough money to buy a car on your own. But the game gives you tons of options to make the money on your own rather easily.

Originally Posted by malyce

He has a point. There is no way to justify $50 for 7,000,000 in virtual currency in a game you just spent $60 on. It should be more along the lines of $1.99 for 1M credits all the way up to $12.99 for 7M. The pricing is absurd considering its a $60 game.

This.

The pricing is gross.

Originally Posted by KarmaCow

There are already pre-order weapons in Dark Souls 2. :(

That's only for Japan.

Originally Posted by Orca

And they didn't play Forza 5 before reviewing it?

I haven't read EG's review on Forza. I was commenting on GTplanet members not being wrong about GT6's economy not being changed.

Absolute bullshit. You've already paid for the game, to charge you more for any of the data that you already purchased should be criminal.

Microtransactions fucking suck.

I just hope you can acquire credits fast enough in the actual game. Seasonal events in GT5 meant you could hoard cash, but we will see.

Originally Posted by King_Moc

Absolute bullshit. You've already paid for the game, to charge you more for any of the data that you already purchased should be criminal.

You should read the article.

Or the post even on this page.

C'mon people let's keep our heads level lest we miss the most obvious shit.

Originally Posted by Untalkative_Bunny

Or you could try to understand that others have a different POV instead shitting on them.

I'll repost this and I'd really like to know your thoughts on the subject:

Small thought experiment--

Would Demon's Souls have been a different game with a difficulty slider and/or cheat microtransaction dlc even if everything else about the game was the same?

My answer is yes, it would have been a fundamentally different game.

How so? If you didn't see the difficult slider in the game or links encouraging you to buy the cheat DLC, and the game played exactly the same, how exactly would it be "fundamentally different"?

Originally Posted by Agent AA1

I don't see why it's different

The entire economy in Forza 5 was altered to try to get you to buy their DLC money packs.

It doesnt award you cars and worse of all when you buy a Car Pack DLC, you still have to spend in game credits to buy the cars.

Also, Free Play mode doesnt allow you to race all cars.

GT6 progression remains the same as old games, unaltered by the existence of these money packs. You basically would only buy them if you really dont want to "play" the game, and you have to go out of your way to get them.

Forza is constantly bombarding you with ads for you to get the DLC.

Originally Posted by King_Moc

Absolute bullshit. You've already paid for the game, to charge you more for any of the data that you already purchased should be criminal.

What the fuck are these replies? The car costs 20m in career mode, free to drive in arcade mode. It is no fucking DLC bullshit or so.

Awful, but at least the economy in the game doesn't seem affected. So it's alright I guess.

Originally Posted by King_Moc

Absolute bullshit. You've already paid for the game, to charge you more for any of the data that you already purchased should be criminal.

Content isn't being locked out. They're just offering a quick fix for those who want to pay.

Originally Posted by chubigans

It's a good thing the game has a thousand cars and almost forty tracks. And that the payouts range into the hundreds of thousands for seasonal events.

Not to mention the game will be releasing 28 DLC cars over the next few months, all of them free.

BUT...BUT....BUT......BUT........BUT............

Originally Posted by Nafai1123

I'm not sure I can agree with that. Changing the game to encourage microtransactions is the most relevant part of why there was such an outcry over Forza. If they had kept the rewards and pricing for high value cars the same, it wouldn't have been such a big issue. If you're disgusted by microtransactions in a $60 game you have every right to be, but the fundamental reason why most gamers care is when it changes the game itself, which doesn't appear to be the case in GT6.

I'm not disgusted by microtransactions in a $60 game. I'm disgusted by a single microtransaction for one car that costs ~£120. As I said in a previous post, if the price was much lower then I wouldn't even be in the thread. I'm not even buying the game but it's obvious MS and Sony are testing the waters for this garbage to be included in future first party games which I would otherwise be buying.

Originally Posted by PanicFreak

No it shouldn't. I'm not disgusted. It's not like PD is going to send hit men over to your house to point a gun at your head in order to coerce you to purchase the most expensive cars in the game with real money. That would be disgusting.

Way to split hairs.

Originally Posted by PanicFreak

I'm simply amazed that people would actually plunk that money down for an in game currency.

I'm amazed that developers who I otherwise respect are giving people the option to spend that much.

Originally Posted by Reallink

Why does that matter when, I assume, a lot of people have a problem with this because it undermines the integrity of the game and is in effect cheating.

I could give you hundreds of titles in the 360/PS3 gen that does this.

Need For Speed time saving pack?
Tiger Woods - buying better gear (that has better stats) for your golfer?

I could go on and on. In no way is this kind of pay model core to the game of GT6. The fact that the reward model is exactly the same as GT5 is the drama killer here.

Take away the rewards, take away the auction house like try did with Forza 5 compared to Forza 4 then people would have a reason to create a compatible level of a shit storm.

If not, don't fucking buy the currency!

Originally Posted by Agent AA1

So who was complaining about Forza?

So who doesn't know what they are talking about?

Originally Posted by chubigans

There's a lot of "bah well I can't wait to see all the people slamming Turn 10 do 180s and defend Polyphony!" Polyphony and Turn 10 are doing microtransactions for their games. Both allow a car to be bought with $100 in real money. This is gross, nothing new for microtransactions but yeah, let's all get angry, sure.

Now consider with both of these games:

-One has redesigned their economy to make it more difficult to win, gift or earn cars, and no longer awards cars to the player. The other has no fundamental changes to the economy at all.

-One has a button designated as a microtransaction button- hit it to access a boosters option to earn XP faster. And if you don't want to press a button, then hey, we'll put it on the menus as well so you can select it. The other game doesn't have a way to purchase microtransactions at all within the game. You have to exit the game and search the store to find it.

-One has day one DLC car packs for the low price of $50. The other has DLC car packs that will also be rolling out day one and in the months to come, all free, all original cars designed by different manufacturers.

-One has a low amount of tracks with more as paid DLC to come. The other has over 30 and will likely have DLC tracks as well, but isn't missing any of the essentials such as the Ring.


So to recap: one game has XP boosters, money DLC, car premium packs, track premium packs, a low amount of cars and tracks to start with, and a changed economy to skew for less giftable cars, and the other has the same in-game economy with free car DLC, lots of cars and tracks, and no microtransactions within the game whatsoever.

Sorry if I'm not outraged at this news that the OP so desperately wants me to be.

Great summary of situations as some people here clearly don't understand the situations at hand.

Seems like they didn't really change anything from GT5.

I'm ok with if being expensive to buy credits with real money. People that do that are morans in the first place, they might as well be fleeced to subsidize development.

You can actually get 1M pretty quick in GT5, especially in some seasonal events.

Originally Posted by Kiraly

What the fuck are these replies? The car costs 20m in career mode, free to drive in arcade mode. It is no fucking DLC bullshit or so.

That's fine. There's just no justification for the exchange rate. It should be 5-10 bucks at the extreme most.

Originally Posted by chubigans

Sorry if I'm not outraged at this news that the OP so desperately wants me to be.

Whoa your Thread history is very telling. Do you post what you do to outrage Xbox fans?

Originally Posted by malyce

He has a point. There is no way to justify $50 for 7,000,000 in virtual currency in a game you just spent $60 on. It should be more along the lines of $1.99 for 1M credits all the way up to $12.99 for 7M. The pricing is absurd considering its a $60 game.

I agree with this.

Originally Posted by partime

Pay more to have fun playing games immediately

???? you can race all the cars in free Play as far as I know. If you are not interested in progressing in a campaign mode then you already dont have interest in getting credits.

Originally Posted by suedester

I think this is the important thing. If people want to pay to avoid the grind then that is up to them. I'm not sure it needs to be quite that expensive though.

The only thing is, does it provide significantly less content than GT5?

Originally Posted by Senor Kami

Sounds like a total and complete zero issue then. You can do it the old fashioned way or you can pay money so that you don't have to play the game you purchased. To me, this is the ideal approach for microtransactions in full priced games. People who just want to play the old fashioned way can do that, people who want to pay money to have less gameplay can do that, and devs/pubs get more money in their pocket without hurting the core gamers.

no, its wrong to charge people those prices for a car. Its a stinking pile of shit, but it seems be less insidious than the way its been done in other games. So its bad, but less bad than it is in Forza or NBA 2k14

Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS

The only thing is, does it provide significantly less content than GT5?

gt5 is effectively obsolete in the wake of gt6 unless you were a huge fan of the top gear track

Originally Posted by chubigans

There's a lot of "bah well I can't wait to see all the people slamming Turn 10 do 180s and defend Polyphony!" Polyphony and Turn 10 are doing microtransactions for their games. Both allow a car to be bought with $100 in real money. This is gross, nothing new for microtransactions but yeah, let's all get angry, sure.

Now consider with both of these games:

-One has redesigned their economy to make it more difficult to win, gift or earn cars, and no longer awards cars to the player. The other has no fundamental changes to the economy at all.

-One has a button designated as a microtransaction button- hit it to access a boosters option to earn XP faster. And if you don't want to press a button, then hey, we'll put it on the menus as well so you can select it. The other game doesn't have a way to purchase microtransactions at all within the game. You have to exit the game and search the store to find it.

-One has day one DLC car packs for the low price of $50. The other has DLC car packs that will also be rolling out day one and in the months to come, all free, all original cars designed by different manufacturers.

-One has a low amount of tracks with more as paid DLC to come. The other has over 30 and will likely have DLC tracks as well, but isn't missing any of the essentials such as the Ring.


So to recap: one game has XP boosters, money DLC, car premium packs, track premium packs, a low amount of cars and tracks to start with, and a changed economy to skew for less giftable cars, and the other has the same in-game economy with free car DLC, lots of cars and tracks, and no microtransactions within the game whatsoever.

Sorry if I'm not outraged at this news that the OP so desperately wants me to be.

/thread

Put this in the OP .

Originally Posted by chubigans

There's a lot of "bah well I can't wait to see all the people slamming Turn 10 do 180s and defend Polyphony!" Polyphony and Turn 10 are doing microtransactions for their games. Both allow a car to be bought with $100 in real money. This is gross, nothing new for microtransactions but yeah, let's all get angry, sure.

Now consider with both of these games:

-One has redesigned their economy to make it more difficult to win, gift or earn cars, and no longer awards cars to the player. The other has no fundamental changes to the economy at all.

-One has a button designated as a microtransaction button- hit it to access a boosters option to earn XP faster. And if you don't want to press a button, then hey, we'll put it on the menus as well so you can select it. The other game doesn't have a way to purchase microtransactions at all within the game. You have to exit the game and search the store to find it.

-One has day one DLC car packs for the low price of $50. The other has DLC car packs that will also be rolling out day one and in the months to come, all free, all original cars designed by different manufacturers.

-One has a low amount of tracks with more as paid DLC to come. The other has over 30 and will likely have DLC tracks as well, but isn't missing any of the essentials such as the Ring.


So to recap: one game has XP boosters, money DLC, car premium packs, track premium packs, a low amount of cars and tracks to start with, and a changed economy to skew for less giftable cars, and the other has the same in-game economy with free car DLC, lots of cars and tracks, and no microtransactions within the game whatsoever.

Sorry if I'm not outraged at this news that the OP so desperately wants me to be.

Wow. When you put it like that....

Should also add that GT Spec II updates (which are usually comprehensive and content rich), are free too.

Originally Posted by Red Blaster

gt5 is effectively obsolete in the wake of gt6 unless you were a huge fan of the top gear track

Ahhh ok, good to know.

Originally Posted by KarmaCow

There are already pre-order weapons in Dark Souls 2. :(

That sucks.

Originally Posted by Willy Wanka

I'm not disgusted by microtransactions in a $60 game. I'm disgusted by a single microtransaction for one car that costs ~£120. As I said in a previous post, if the price was much lower then I wouldn't even be in the thread. I'm not even buying the game but it's obvious MS and Sony are testing the waters for this garbage to be included in future first party games which I would otherwise be buying.

I don't think it's fair to judge the entire microtransaction system based on one of the most expensive cars in the game. I don't think PD/Sony expect many people, if any, to do that. The expectation is that some players will likely drop a little money here and there to get an early game boost.

How is this bad in Forza but okay in GT6? Really, GAF...

On a side note, I can't help but wonder if the publishers now feel that the investment needed to create a game is never going to be justified by the $60 price tag, but because that's a sacred cow, this their way around it. Not defending it, just wondering if that's why it's suddenly happening en masse.

Originally Posted by Metfanant

did you bother to head over the GTPlanet??...they have been saying that the credit system is at worst the same as GT5...which means

- free reward cars for events
- still as easy to earn credits through races

there shouldnt be a problem with earning credits the old fashioned way

Frankly, I take GTPlanet with a grain of salt. They are too entrenched into the GT series mystique that I'll wait for some of the hype to wear off this game and see where it falls.

Personally I think micro-transactions need to stay out of full retail games regardless. It is not a, don't buy them or not deal. It affects the core of the game design in a negative way. Either they increase the grind or lock the best/prettiest cars behind pay walls and various other impacts.

Of course, I've been a GT fan so I will eventually get it I'm certain. Maybe I'll go with the used route as punishment this time.