This is some bullshit, doesn't this violate some kind of diplomatic agreement? Why does this system it still exist? What can be done to stop these dudes? Do i need to become a terrorist or what?
Hey NSA, you reading this? Fuck you, you teethless twats.
What if I just do not want to let them know?Originally Posted by Speedy Blue Dude
I don't see the issue... What's the harm in them knowing where I am? Not like the government is going to come check up on my location daily or something. Knowing this info or staying ignorant to the fact, my life has not changed in the slightest.
I am in my right to demand that, am I not?
You are the kind of guy I guess who is perfectly fine with drones flying over his head, controling every move.
Just because you got nothing to hide doesn't mean they are in their right to observe you 24/7.
I have never agreed with the state to observe me, so if they do not have a court order against me they are violating my privacy and human rights.
Last edited by ∇NKNOWN SHΔPE; Yesterday at 10:37 PM.
Nice; I second this. Fuck you, NSA.Originally Posted by John Kowalski
This is some bullshit, doesn't this violate some kind of diplomatic agreement? Why does this system it still exist? What can be done to stop these dudes? Do i need to become a terrorist or what?
Hey NSA, you reading this? Fuck you, you teethless twats.
Anything can be abused if the goal is abuse. The NSA wouldn't have any need to get this fancy about it.I think it's less to do with "freedom" and more to do with the fact that something like this can be very, very easily abused.
I mean, if we're going to talk about patching out exploits ripe for abuse how about the one where they have lots of guns and none of us have bulletproof skin?
Dear NSA,
Stahp.
All you'll find is porn.
I deleted my search history in the morning. The porn showed up again. I don't have any account linked with my browser. Thanks NSA.
Stahp.
All you'll find is porn.
I deleted my search history in the morning. The porn showed up again. I don't have any account linked with my browser. Thanks NSA.
This, but not just that:They're not necessarily taking away your freedom right now (aside from your freedom to privacy), but that's not the point. All of this surveillance might be fine and well if our government and the governments around the world were perfect, and fair, and guaranteed to remain that way until the end of time.
But imagine these governments having all this power, and then one day deciding, "Ok, we don't like anyone with the forum name 'Heretic'. Let's round them all up, and their families, and send them off to a labor camp." I know that's not the best way of putting it, but I figure it gets the point across.
The biggest thing is that our governments are far from perfect right now, without any imaginary slippery slope for them to slide down.
It is NOT about all us uninteresting 9:00-5:00 schmucks loosing a bit of privacy.
It IS about a fundamental erosion of how a democracy is able to reinvent itself when the time comes and the need arises.
With this kind of mass surveillance the NSA can easily read trends in the whole society. They can listen for grassroots movement just building up, they can identify centers of opinion building early on and manipulate them.
The NSA is able to easily identify spokespersons, "radicalizers", persons that have a certain agenda for change and silence them VERY EARLY on, using counter-propaganda, character assassination, cutting them off, etc... without it ever making big headlines.
All this mass surveillance is a way to secure the power STATUS QUO forever and quench any kind of democratic movement, civil unrest in its infancy.
Society will be completely apathic and no spokespersons for change in sight.
THE END.
Last edited by Guy.brush; Yesterday at 10:45 PM.
I think it's cool. That stuff in movies when they track the bad guys and it seems impossible... well, maybe not so impossible IRL after all.
So the NSA is doing this worldwide? If so, isn't this going to piss off those international figure heads that are being tracked even more than they are now?
On the flipside, do other international agencies track this data on US citizens? Are we at the point where 20 different countries know my location at all parts of my day?
On the flipside, do other international agencies track this data on US citizens? Are we at the point where 20 different countries know my location at all parts of my day?
Eh I don't give a shit, I'm just some Joe out of 5 BILLION other Joes and I have nothing to hide. They can track what I do as much as they want, but that's not going to change the fact that this doesn't affect me in the slightest.
You're in the wrong to ever think that, it will affect you.Eh I don't give a shit, I'm just some Joe out of 5 BILLION other Joes and I have nothing to hide. They can track what I do as much as they want, but that's not going to change the fact that this doesn't affect me in the slightest.
man, snowden is just the best
that's actually another thing that they are after.Originally Posted by shagg_187
Dear NSA,
Stahp.
All you'll find is porn.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...amist-radicals
Last edited by jimi_dini; Yesterday at 10:52 PM.
Oh, God, how many NSA staffers are on suicide watch after listening to housewifes prattle on for hours?
Sorry shag, they're on to you and your sick porn fetishes now. As well as everyone else's. Man, that's a lot of porn the NSA has to watch, and it's all on the clock too.Originally Posted by jimi_dini
that's actually another thing that they are after.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...amist-radicals
Related
edition.cnn.com/2013/12/04/opinion/snowden-chilling-effect/
nearly one in four [journalists] has self-censored for fear of government surveillance. They fessed up to curbing their research, not accepting certain assignments, even not discussing certain topics on the phone or via e-mail for fear of being targeted. The subjects they are avoiding are no surprise — mostly matters to do with the Middle East, the military and terrorism.', 1 in 4 journalists in the US admits to self-censoring.
edition.cnn.com/2013/12/04/opinion/snowden-chilling-effect/
1) They need to know where your cell phone is to do this?Originally Posted by Guy.brush
The NSA is able to easily identify spokespersons, persons that have a certain agenda for change and silence them VERY EARLY on, using counter-propaganda, character assassination, cutting them off, etc... without it ever making big headlines.
2) How does the NSA find out about somebody's magic agenda before it gets put on the internet where it will live forever?
3) No, really though.
Scary stuff.
This particular news bit is just one piece of a giant puzzle, not a method to identify spokespersons per-se. But a tool in the chain.Originally Posted by Matthew Gallant
1) They need to know where your cell phone is to do this?
2) How does the NSA find out about somebody's magic agenda before it gets put on the internet where it will live forever?
3) No, really though.
Social networks and even your mobile phone carriers are already doing something like this. They can identify people who are opinion-holders and people who are centers in a friend circle. Those customers often get calls to get a cheaper contract etc...
If you can identify opinion circles like that, you can then start to work against them or use them to further your own agenda (pretty much what FACEBOOK does for a living).
I wouldn't even be surprised if there is a simple meta-flag database about pretty much everyone and what political leaning he/she is.
Visited "democracyunderground.org" once? You just got the definitely LEFTY flag! You got FOXnews.com as startpage? Conversative, no worries!
Such a thing can give them insights into societies any election analyst could only dream of. And they have it in real-time, all the time.
Of course you can't stop anyone from publishing "truth" to the net, but you can marginalize them, you can wreak havoc on their character (porn, girlfriend was a stripper)
In Snowden's case, there was an awful lot of forum posts all across the globe with a copy & paste tone.
"Snowden is an ugly traitor and btw, did you know his girlfriend was a stripper?"
A good chunk of those were probably started by means of the NSA and then the initial propaganda worked and it snowballed in conservative circles.
Manning was also attacked by means of sexuality, as was Assange.
They play to a conservative audience they know will help them build up momentum against what could otherwise end up become a dangerous tide of truth. The problem is: They know where and when the tide will hit and they are really good at building walls and telling people to look away when the tide hits.
Last edited by Guy.brush; Yesterday at 11:32 PM.
It must happen a lot because those drones are crazy busy (the ethics and efficacy of drone warfare are another story, but it's clear that they use this type of intelligence for something).They do all this shit but when have they ever once tracked down and captured/killed a terrorist, drug lord, mass murderer or someone who might actually threaten security or safety?
not surprised, given recent leaks. the co-traveler algorithm has to be clever.
Last edited by that1dude24; Yesterday at 11:31 PM.
Impressive!
still don't see how this is a problem
still don't see how this is a problem
I used to think Kojima was full of shit with his Arsenal Gear madness in MGS2.
How prescient he was.
Or maybe he is Snowden.
How prescient he was.
Or maybe he is Snowden.
Horrendous, as usual. Waiting for the confirmation that they're saving all our cell phone call transcripts forever as well.
Can't wait to be indicted in 2042 for an off color joke I made 5 years ago over the phone, in conjunction with location data that puts me at the scene of a crime I never knew happened. Gonna be awesome!
But... if you're a muslim? If you want to change the established order? (perhaps take money out of politics, or advance a social cause?) Watch yourself and prepare a defense for every weird website you've ever visited, every restaurant you've been to, every purchase you've made. You are already on trial, you just don't know it yet.
Can't wait to be indicted in 2042 for an off color joke I made 5 years ago over the phone, in conjunction with location data that puts me at the scene of a crime I never knew happened. Gonna be awesome!
As long as you keep your head down and serve as a productive cog in the societal machine and aboid making powerful enemies, you'll be fine.Impressive!
still don't see how this is a problem
But... if you're a muslim? If you want to change the established order? (perhaps take money out of politics, or advance a social cause?) Watch yourself and prepare a defense for every weird website you've ever visited, every restaurant you've been to, every purchase you've made. You are already on trial, you just don't know it yet.
Last edited by Elfforkusu; Yesterday at 11:40 PM.
Secret courts are signing off on this. 'Nuff said.
Well, I hope █████████ and █████████ that ██████████████████.
They've been trying, and somewhat suceeding. That's what all the traitor talk is with Snowden. Anything to undermine the message.Originally Posted by Matthew Gallant
How are you talking about Snowden right now if he's been marginalized? Come on.
The surveillance apparatus is still in beta. They'll get better at the marginalization part.
For some reason, I tend to click on threesomes more. Sorry NSA. The world already knows! Even my friends know!Sorry shag, they're on to you and your sick porn fetishes now. As well as everyone else's. Man, that's a lot of porn the NSA has to watch, and it's all on the clock too.
Even the girls know!
Honest question, did anyone find this surprising? The technology to track our phones has existed for years and is already being used by carriers, manufacturers, and advertisers for years.
Most of these revelations are not revelations, they're confirmation. The NSA was not supposed to be allowed to do any of this. They're operating outside the law, and they're doing it under the apparent motto of "better to ask forgiveness than permission".Originally Posted by outunderthestars
Honest question, did anyone find this surprising? The technology to track our phones has existed for years and is already being used by carriers, manufacturers, and advertisers for years.
If it's surprising, it's only in the "no, they wouldn't install cameras in every private residence and save the recording indefinitely!" sense. Because obviously these are the good guys, only bad guys get monitored. Well... no. That train of thought has derailed and caught fire. Hell yeah they would, if the technology existed and they thought they could get away with it.
(incidentally, about that XB1...)
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(Yesterday, 11:52 PM)
Imagine if you used this technology to enrich yourself or secure power or any number of non-"security" related things?
Not that anyone would do that of course... Heh.
Not that anyone would do that of course... Heh.
I've been meaning to bring this up for quite a while now but, and please correct me if I'm wrong, are we not giving them permission to do these things by signing contracts from AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, Comcast, etc.? Isn't it there in the fine print that they can give away information if they wanted to?
If the question is whether it's legal for AT&T, Verizon, etc -- I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. But rest easy. Even if it's illegal now, they'll be granted retroactive immunity by Congress for breaking they law to help the government just like the last time! Problem solved!I've been meaning to bring this up for quite a while now but, and please correct me if I'm wrong, are we not giving them permission to do these things by signing contracts from AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, Comcast, etc.? Isn't it there in the fine print that they can give away information if they wanted to?
Agreed. The government has always shown itself to be 100% trustworthy. The security agencies should be given as much control over our daily lives as possible, because abuses of power have never happened, and with the hardworking discipline and stability of our federal government it's clear that abuses will never happen!Originally Posted by BocoDragon
Imagine if you used this technology to enrich yourself or secure power or any number of non-"security" related things?
Not that anyone would do that of course... Heh.
In fact, why have laws at all? That Barry O seems like a good enough fella, I trust him to make the right decision to protect me from the terrorists that are out to get me.
I feel like this needs to be expounded on, made much funnier, and posted an Onion op-ed
He has not been marginalized easily, but they are definitely trying hard. They are shooting on all cylinders currently. It's a constant tug and war of and on opinion.Originally Posted by Matthew Gallant
How are you talking about Snowden right now if he's been marginalized? Come on.
Let's call the two sides the "shadowy" intelligence gathering community with government ties vs the public.
In the past the public would EASILY win every propaganda battle in a war like that. Especially over the long run and if the "gloves have not come off yet" and people can still go to the streets without mortal fear. Just look how the GDR was abolished.
But nowadays, when you have an apathic populace sedated with enough entertainment, calories and sugar to last multiple lifetimes and you have a vast apparatus of databases and insider knowledge about persons, topics and trends "before they hit big" at your disposal, the favor is shifting towards the propaganda creators, not the receivers. And it will shift permanently.
When I talk about Wikileaks, Assange, Snowden or corporate/government whistleblowers in my more conservative friend circles it is amazing how fast the topic shifts to their apparently weird sexual relations or exploits or how untrustwurthy and unpatriotic that shitty Guardian is, which is the SOLE source of most of this liberal paranoia..., etc...
I can see how the war on opinion might be already lost with the conservative masses. Might also have to do with how conservatives can't seem to see government as something in need of checks. Often they can't make the leap of thought how a benevolent government can actively try to cling to power by illegal means and in the process throw the whole due process over the cliff and subsequently start to harm their own populace and become a force of evil.
Last edited by Guy.brush; Today at 12:01 AM.
So the NSA tracks a lot... but not really anything that can save americans lives? Its hard to believe that Aurora/Boston/ and all sort of active domestic terrorism wasn't discussed/planned without technology.
What is the NSA doing with this information?
What is the NSA doing with this information?
Best guess? Building a huge database so their agents can figure out what to do with this information.Originally Posted by commedieu
So the NSA tracks a lot... but not really anything that can save americans lives? Its hard to believe that Aurora/Boston/ and all sort of active domestic terrorism wasn't discussed/planned without technology.
What is the NSA doing with this information?
Easier to scoop up lots of data than make sense of it. On the plus side, while they're no closer to stopping the terrorists in advance, they can probably produce the world's only definitive list of Americans with an addiction to donkey porn.
Give me a break.Originally Posted by Matthew Gallant
No they haven't, and no they aren't. "Is this a good thing or a bad thing that happened" is an organic media narrative, and doesn't require any propaganda efforts by the NSA. Ease up on the paranoia, you'll get an ulcer.
"Snowden gave secrets to the Chinese and the Russians. Therefore he is not a patriot, he is a foreign spy! Hang him!"
I had a very smart former coworker of mine express this sentiment to me over lunch yesterday. I've had otherwise intelligent family members say the same thing. Did this narrative spring from whole cloth? Hell no! There are politicians involved here, there's no such thing as an "organic media narrative" where modern politics are involved.
Since the leaks started, the intelligence community has been trying to paint Snowden as a renegade traitor. That the best they can do is say "but Russia! but China!" and appeal to Cold War era fears is a credit to his foresight, not to their generosity.
See also: "unnamed government sources are worried he may have released the names of CIA agents!" <-- transparent appeal to human interest. Oh no, think about those loyal Americans he's not putting in danger!
Last edited by Elfforkusu; Today at 12:12 AM.
Let's bring back carrier pidgeons!
This is why I insist that everyone calls me "Jacobo" over the phone. Checkmate, NSA.
If you really think the government/intelligence community is not actively trying to influence opinion on the net and elsewhere via media outlets, agents, social circles you are pretty naive.
And let's assume you are right and they are not actively trying to influence opinion - they have at least succeeded in a passive sense.
People are now joking on Skype, STEAM chat, etc... that they are all monitored and how it is so funny that they watch our...haha..PORN and shit. But they are already self-censoring themselves.
Being able to have a conversation with others about highly controversial topics without fear of the government recording your conversations, creating files on all of you, and adding you to watch lists that strongly restrict your freedom of movement is one of the most important values you can have in a society/constitution. The Founding Fathers were quite keen to add this to the framework of their society but it seems nobody cares anymore to uphold it.
And let's assume you are right and they are not actively trying to influence opinion - they have at least succeeded in a passive sense.
People are now joking on Skype, STEAM chat, etc... that they are all monitored and how it is so funny that they watch our...haha..PORN and shit. But they are already self-censoring themselves.
Being able to have a conversation with others about highly controversial topics without fear of the government recording your conversations, creating files on all of you, and adding you to watch lists that strongly restrict your freedom of movement is one of the most important values you can have in a society/constitution. The Founding Fathers were quite keen to add this to the framework of their society but it seems nobody cares anymore to uphold it.
So the NSA has made smart people dumb with their powers of planting hypnotic stories in multiple newspapers. Seems legit.Originally Posted by Elfforkusu
I had a very smart former coworker of mine express this sentiment to me over lunch yesterday. I've had otherwise intelligent family members say the same thing.
This Snowden prick again? He's caused some headaches for Australia too.
Im sure those lovely folks in Russia and China love him though >:(
Im sure those lovely folks in Russia and China love him though >:(
My ish is that when you start normalising spying, then privacy starts to look criminal. Listen, there are a lot of legitimate reasons to encrypt emails. I might be dealing with finances, or contracts, or trade secrets, and I don't want to end up on some watch list just because someone uses the same tools to commit a crime.
Thanks for that. This is actually one of the more problematic things few people stop to consider.Originally Posted by Guy.brush
Related
edition.cnn.com/2013/12/04/opinion/snowden-chilling-effect/
This stuff is only the very, very harmless beginning but the ugliness of collecting and unifying all those databases without oversight is already visible:
Government manipulates no-fly list to have witness in anti-government trial not be present in court:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...estimony.shtml
Woman denied entry to US by DHS citing private medical details.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013...l_details.html
Government manipulates no-fly list to have witness in anti-government trial not be present in court:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...estimony.shtml
Woman denied entry to US by DHS citing private medical details.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013...l_details.html
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