NeoGAF

Hey.

Lately when I look into the Steamthread I kinda notice that a lot of people write about Games things like
"That has been released since 2 months. What?"
"Oh? I havent noticed it has been released."

I, myself, felt like that during the Thanksgiving-Sale, when I saw that Tetrobot, the sequel to Blocks that matter, has been released.
I havent even noticed that, even though I loved Blocks that matter.

I am wondering, that it was quite different about 4 years ago. You had a nice little collection of Indie-Games, which, most of the time, also had a certain quality.
Now though Steam seems to be full of Indiegames. Today 7 new Games/Apps were released on Steam, yesterday even 10.
Thats just 17 new Games in just 2 days.
At one point that was the whole Indielibrary on Steam.

What I kinda see now is, that because we have that much to choose from, quite some games are unnoticed. I played A Walk in the Dark, a nice little Super Meat Boy-esque Game and I havent heard much talk about it.
Of course the devs are also to blame, since those Games dont usually have big marketing campaigns and word of mouth isnt always working, even though a Game might be good. But I would argue that most Indiedevs dont even have the budget for marketing.

The question is: "Is too much choice always positive for the customer (and a Dev)?"

It is, although it does mean that you, as the consumer, may have to put in more effort. Even if you have to wade through more titles you don't care about, the net total of titles you DO care about should increase as well. That's a trade off I'm fine with.

If there wasn't massive variety for indie games on storefronts, they might as well just be a slightly cheaper tier of AAA games.

The question is: "Is too much choice always positive for the customer (and a Dev)?"

No. I like it when my platform of choice only has 10/15 mediocre-to-bad games to choose from.

I think its positive because it means devs mean to do more to stick out of the crowd.. which is good for us gamers as well.

Heavily curated storefronts can shove off. Release EVERYTHING, highlight the best stuff on the main page.

I don't actually feel like the average quality of indie game has dropped, there have always been pretty crummy stuff being released on Steam. Instead, what I think is that far far far more people are engaging in indie development now and so even with the same quality cutoff, there's too many games to keep track of.

I would say that since September 1, 2013, the following indie games have released that had what I would deem to be pretty positive pre-release interest or post-release buzz on GAF:

Original Release
Volgarr the Viking
Cook Serve Delicious
Escape Goat
The Stanley Parable HD
Stronghold HD
Knytt Underground
King Arthur's Gold
Anomaly Korea
Risk of Rain
Hero of the Kingdom
Savant Ascent
Tiny Barbarians DX
Starbound
Maia

Port or Rerelease
I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream
You Don't Know Jack Classic Re-releases
PixelJunk Shooter
Wasteland*
Mutant Mudds Deluxe
The Last Express

I mean, that's a lot of good stuff!

Tetrobot's problem is that the price is insane and I also don't know anyone that really loved Blocks that Matter. I know tons of people who played it, but almost everyone reports "yeah, it was OK"

I think, like iOS stuff, navigating the junk is getting more difficult on Steam.

Originally Posted by Stumpokapow

I would say that since September 1, 2013, the following indie games have released that had what I would deem to be pretty positive pre-release interest or post-release buzz on GAF:

Original Release
Volgarr the Viking
Cook Serve Delicious
Escape Goat
The Stanley Parable HD
Stronghold HD
Knytt Underground
King Arthur's Gold
Anomaly Korea
Risk of Rain
Hero of the Kingdom
Savant Ascent
Tiny Barbarians DX
Starbound
Maia

You forgot Valdis Story. >:-(

@Stumpokapow

Yeah. I know that. But also some little gems get overlooked like that.

Like I said, almost "no one" noticed that the Blocks that Matter Sequel was released, even though it had quite a fanbase here on GAF and other messageboards
Or A Walk in the Dark I got from a bundle. It really is a nice little gem, but havent seen much people talk about it.

Sometimes it feels like there are too much Indiegames, that are overshadowing other ones, that have a good quality. And even then you see people here on GAF asking if they should buy a piece of shit like Nether (WarZ 2.0), that have much more exposure than, lets say, Valdis Story.

I wouldnt want to compare Steam to the iOS-Store, but sometimes it really feels like that. Also when you see what kind of Games got greenlit, it makes me wonder in which Valve is heading with Steam.

Yeah I don't even bother with indie games unless it gets some kind of press or hype. It's not like I'm missing anything though. I already have too many great games to play as it is so finding that diamond in the rough is completely unnecessary.

I'm not really sure there's any issue in the first place. I mean there have always been a lot of indie games on Steam and there have always been a lot which people overlook regardless. Seriously, how many people have heard of games like 1000 Amps or Eversion or Legend of Fae or NyxQuest; these are all indie games which have been on the service for years and are never mentioned at all, as opposed to stuff like Super Meat Boy or Braid or Limbo which, despite being of a similar age, still pop up in discussion from time to time. It's really just the way things are. Much like in the AAA world, some indie games will gain publicity (the Stanley Parable and Starbounds of the world) while others (perhaps like Tetrobot and Co.) will be overlooked (though whether or not Tetrobot and Co. was overlooked is something else; I seem to recall the developers stating it did three times as well as Blocks That Matter). That Steam is releasing more indie games at present doesn't have anything to do with it.

Even if we accept that there is an issue, then what's the solution? If we go for a more curated approach, then you still end up with games being overlooked (I mean even on the console side you see games like Ethan: Meteor Hunter released without a mention at all). Besides, that would involve some games missing out, and if they are all quality games being released, then surely that is a worse move to make (looking at the recent releases on Steam there are actually very few games which I would outright not be interested in; though perhaps that says more for my tastes than the quality of the releases).

Originally Posted by Chairmanchuck

What I kinda see now is, that because we have that much to choose from, quite some games are unnoticed.

You're forgetting to mention though that four or five years ago hardly anyone cared about indie games at all. There's a pretty decent market for those games now and, of course, a few games won't get the attention they deserved. That sucks but it's not different from the AA, the AAA, or any other market.

Originally Posted by Bjomesphat

Yeah I don't even bother with indie games unless it gets some kind of press or hype. It's not like I'm missing anything though.

How would you know?

Discovery amongst indie games can be a problem, but I'd rather we had too much choice rather than on the AAA side limited to "which flavour of the month of the same shit would you like?"

Look at Apple's App Store. I mean 99.99999% of it is indie.

The problem is indie without curation is like trying to choose a particular grain of sand from a beach.

People have been calling for Apple to curate the App Store for years, but the more I think about that the more I realize it's not going to happen. It is not in Apple's best interest to essentially say "we've picked a hundred apps or so, and sorry but yours just isn't worthy."

Steam curates a little bit, basically that's what Greenlight was, for all of its missteps. But yeah I get what you mean.

What Steam, Apple, and hell the whole indie community need is a serious review/info site. I've thought about putting something together a few times but it basically would need to be a full time job with capital until advertising could take off. The co thing about the concept is that it could start without any of the common trappings of current "games journalism" sites. Get a advertising base outside of game publishers, do away with scores or at least take it down to a pass/fail or hellyeah/probably/maybe/no.

Sadly I'm not at a place in my life to do such a thing... But yeah.. It's almost like indies need their own site out there to keep up with the releases. The first site to really do it right will explode with growth. And I can already tell you it won't be any of the current majors. Their formats aren't fluid enough nor do they have enough time to give us mainstream reviews, 13 TitanFall previews between now and March, and cover the majority of indie games coming out.

Originally Posted by Bjomesphat

Yeah I don't even bother with indie games unless it gets some kind of press or hype. It's not like I'm missing anything though. I already have too many great games to play as it is so finding that diamond in the rough is completely unnecessary.

I kind of agree. Tried the hyped ones like Hotline Miami and FEZ and even those can't keep my attention for very long. They clog up release lists but it doesn't bother me that much otherwise.

i look at the steam store, the concurrent playerbases and my library and i feel like i'm talking to my granddad every time i hear the term "indie games".

i never say i'm going to see an "indie" band even though i probably haven't voluntarily listened to a top 20 artist in a decade, i never say i'm going to watch an "indie" film even if its shot in a day on 16mm, i wish i didn't have to engage in this console derived pigeon-holing of the vast majority of new releases.