NeoGAF

I Know the title sounds weird, but please stay with me to the end. I'll try to make it short.

So one of the most common back and forths of this forum involves Nintendo and new IP's. Multiple threads about this have been made (I don't want to single anyone out, as that's how one of my threads got auto-locked a while back) and is usually something that derails any well-meaning topic about this company. For those smart enough to avoid such topics, here's a general rundown of how said conversations work:

B: Man, Nintendo never makes any new IP's! It's always Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Pokémon or Kirby! Make something new for once in your lives, cripes!
A:Um, have you forgotten about The Wonderful 101? Or how about Xenoblade and X? Harmoknight? They make many new IP's, you just haven't looked hard enough.
B: Did I say Platinum Games? Did I say Monolithsoft or Game Freak? No, I said Nintendo, as in the teams that make Mario and Zelda.
A: But TW101 is fully a Nintendo IP! Monolithsoft and Game Freak are fully owned by Nintendo! Stop moving the goal posts!
B: Moving the posts or not, the point is that the true Nintendo teams haven't made something for us gamers since 2001. These teams are the ones people fall in love with! These are the teams that make the good games! These teams, for lack of a better word ARE Nintendo.

For those unaware, these are the teams that are fully owned by the big N, editied for new releases. Compliments to Kyoto report for making this list:

EAD Kyoto Group No. 1 - Mr. Hideki Konno - Mario Kart 8
EAD Kyoto Group No. 2 - Mr. Katsuya Eguchi - Nintendo Land & Wii Sports U, Animal Crossing: New Leaf
EAD Kyoto Group No. 3 - Mr. Eiji Aonuma - Wind Waker HD, A Link Between Worlds
EAD Kyoto Group No. 4 - Mr. Hiroyuki Kimura - Pikmin 3 & NSMLU
EAD Kyoto Group No. 5 - Mr. Tadashi Sugiyama - Wii Fit U & Undisclosed Project?
EAD Tokyo Group No. 1 - Mr. Takao Shimizu - Panorama View
EAD Tokyo Group No. 2 - Mr. Yoshiaki Koizumi - Super Mario 3D World
SPD Group No. 1 - Mr. Yoshio Sakamoto - Tomodachi Collection 2 & Game & Wario W/ Intelligent Systems & Undisclosed Project?
SPD Group No. 2 - Mr. Hitoshi Yamagami - Smash Bros. U-3DS W/ Sora & Namco & Style Savyy 2 DLC W/ Syn Sophia & Joy Sound U W/ Tose
SPD Group No. 3 - Mr. Kensuke Tanabe - Sing Party with Freestyle Games, Undisclosed Project W/ Monster Games, Paper Mario 3DS W/ Intelligent Systems, Luigi's Mansion 3DS W/ Next Level Games
SPD Group No. 4 - Mr. Hiroshi Sato - Undisclosed Project
Software Development & Design Department - Mr. Kouichi Kawamoto - Brain-Age: Concentration Training & Band Brothers 3DS & Nintendo Tvii (Japanese Version)
Nintendo Software Technology - Mario & Donkey Kong: Mini's on the Move & Undisclosed Project
Nintendo European Research & Development - Wii U Chat
Nintendo Network Services - Wii U Services, 3DS Services
ND Cube - Mario Party Island Tour
Retro Studios - Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze

Affiliates / Other - Contracted Nintendo Projects
Akira - Unknown
Alpha Dream - Mario And Luigi: Dream Team
1-up Studios (Former Brownie Brown) - Super Mario 3D World
Curve Studios - Hydrophobia 3DS
Denuysha - Unknown
Game Freak- Pokémon X/Y, Harmoknight
Genius Sonority - Unknown
Good Feel - Yarn Yoshi
Grezzo - Unknown
Grounding - Unknown
HAL Laboratory - Kirby Triple Deluxe
Headstrong Games - Art Academy 3DS/U
Intelligent Systems - Paper Mario Sticker Star & Crashmo & Game & Wario W/ Nintendo SPD
Mitchell Corp - Tokyo Crash Mob
Monolith Soft - "X"
Monster Games - Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D
Next Level Games - Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon
Platinum Games - Wonderful 101 & Bayonetta 2
Skip - Chib-Robo: Let's Go Photos (?)
Suzak - Unknown
Syn Sophia - Style Savvy DLC
Tose - Joy Sound U
Vanpool - Paper Mario Sticker Star

(Please help fill in any I've missed. This was originally an old list.)

A lot of teams, huh? Ignoring the quality of some of their contributors, (NST, NERD), most of the teams listed have made and continue to make good games. However, notice that half of the development studios in this list don't have the word Nintendo in their names. Does that mean that they aren't Nintendo? Well, that depends. Do you count Pokémon and Fire Emblem as Nintendo franchises?

So basically, my question to you all is this: Which of these studios "count" as Nintendo studios in your opinion? If one of these "side teams" were to make that mystical AAA, character based, gamer focused new IP, would you be satisfied? Or does said game have to come from the core of the company, made by the same folks who raised Hyrule and The Mushroom Kingdom to the bastions of quality they are today?

(I do apologize if this topic seems stupid to some folk. There just seems like there's some general confusion about what people want and from who. I hope this topic clears said confusion up.)

I also hope this thread doesn't get locked by the automatic locking system.

it has that nintendo seal on the box

why do we have these new Nintendo thread... i thought they were irrlevant in the hardware business?

Nintendo could make a Rapelay sequel and it would still count as "Nintendo" to me. The only way for this to vary from person to person is if we're going by feelings.

Platinum Games aren't Nintendo.

Monolith is a first party developer not a affiliate

This discussion would not exist if the people that want EAD tokyo to make a non mario game would simply say they want that instead of asking for Nintendo to make a new IP.

1st and 2nd party period.

It's the same way I approach Sony's devs.

everything owned by Nintendo creates Nintendo games...it's as simple as that to me

They all "count," but when I say that I want Nintendo to make a new IP, I'm personally referring to Nintendo EAD.

Anything that lists Satoru Iwata as Executive Producer.

So yes, LEGO City Undercover, Bayo2, and TW101 count.

If Nintendo published it, then it's Nintendo to me.

Originally Posted by Fandangox

This discussion would not exist if the people that want EAD tokyo to make a non mario game would simply say they want that instead of asking for Nintendo to make a new IP.

Being specific it too hard for some people, mang.

Originally Posted by stfuppercut

Platinum Games aren't Nintendo.

and co-sign. However, W101 is Nintendo, since it's an owned IP. Shame it bombed.

Mitchel Corpis dead as far as I know.

Everything EAD

I don't count Monolith as Nintendo, I call them Monolith. Same way Infamous isn't Sony.

Does it have a chance to appear in Smash? Then it's Nintendo.

Just waiting on the Snake/Sonic/Megaman comments...

Originally Posted by Otakumegane

Everything EAD

I don't count Monolith as Nintendo, I call them Monolith. Same way Infamous isn't Sony.

But by this parameter Pokémon isn't a Nintendo game, for example.

Originally Posted by Otakumegane

Everything EAD

I don't count Monolith as Nintendo, I call them Monolith. Same way Infamous isn't Sony.

What?

It's individuals teams of people making individual creations. Do you expect some sort of collaborative effort with SSM for it to be Sony. That just doesn't make any sense.

The problem is they often force all their stable of smaller 2nd party developers into making games in existing franchises (especially Mario spin-offs) rather than allowing them to get creative with their own ideas.

Granted, there is the argument that a game will automatically sell better to Nintendo's audience if it is attached to an established brand. A good case in point is Alpha Dream, they made a great little GBA RPG called Tomato Adventure, but it would never be as popular as the Mario & Luigi series. At least, not unless it was given the chance to grow.

Which brings me to my point, which is that Nintendo isn't allowing their development teams to grow their own ideas much. So now, instead of having a genuinely new IP like Tomato Adventure to draw from, we have Mario & Luigi - which itself competes against the Paper Mario series!

Xenoblade and Wonderful 101 are more "Nintendo IP" than Pokémon is, interestingly enough

Originally Posted by AlphaStriker

If Nintendo published it, then it's Nintendo to me.

Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Sonic & Ninja Gaiden are Nintendo now?

Originally Posted by Uncle Rupee

The problem is they often force all their stable of smaller 2nd party developers into making games in existing franchises (especially Mario spin-offs) rather than allowing them to get creative with their own ideas.

Granted, there is the argument that a game will automatically sell better to Nintendo's audience if it is attached to an established brand. A good case in point is Alpha Dream, they made a great little GBA RPG called Tomato Adventure, but it would never be as popular as the Mario & Luigi series. At least, not unless it was given the chance to grow.

Which brings me to my point, which is that Nintendo isn't allowing their development teams to grow their own ideas much. So now, instead of having a genuinely new IP like Tomato Adventure to draw from, we have Mario & Luigi - which itself competes against the Paper Mario series!

Also part of the problem is that if its not one their more well known IPs they will advertise it very poorly.

I think people are focusing on the one or two guys that still think Retro is a bunch of indie -ex-Acclaim to represent the people that constantly say "This doesnt count", the broader and more sensible argument is that the efforts put on those news series is not as strong as it should be, especially compared to the older ones.

I understand it tho, I think Nintendo is one of the few companies that takes good care of their IPs instead of crashing them to the ground like Ubi or Activision does, this means they dont have to scramble around looking for new series to whore around or Assasin's Creed prototypes to reskin and call it a new series, still, it sucks that stuff like Lego City and The Wonderful 101 gets little marketing backing compared to a 10 year old admittedly amazing-looking Zelda port.

You forgot NOISE under Nintendo affiliates, OP.

Gamefreak isn't owned by Nintendo.

Anything Nintendo funds, and everything 1st and 2nd party.

I usually counter the EAD only faction by questioning whether games like Animal Crossing New Leaf, A Link Between Worlds, Wii Fit U and so on are Nintendo games or not because they were co developed with other studios.

Also anyone who counts EAD but not SPD goes on my ignore list for beig stupid.

Depends on the context really.
Discussions about what I think is the best/worst Nintendo game are usually limited to Nintendo owned studios only.
When it comes to anything to do with the market, anything owned by Nintendo is a nintendo game.

Any game that unforntunately has to go through Miyamoto is considered Nintendo.

Otherwise it is not Nintendo.

Originally Posted by Richie

Suppose the issue with many is not so much that there aren't new IPs at all, but that they tend to be one offs instead of developing into their own franchises, capable of being relied on each generation like the mainstay series.

bingo. at least for me.

Originally Posted by Busaiku

Gamefreak isn't owned by Nintendo.

No. But the Pokemon Company is.

Probably.

I don't know exactly how ownership of that company is divvied up between Gamefreak, Nintendo, and Creatures Inc., but Nintendo owns Creatures Inc..

Originally Posted by DragonSworne

Any game that unforntunately has to go through Miyamoto is considered Nintendo.

Otherwise it is not Nintendo.

what a weird metric

Originally Posted by Spring-Loaded

Nintendo could make a Rapelay sequel and it would still count as "Nintendo" to me. The only way for this to vary from person to person is if we're going by feelings.

Super Mario Rapelay. Print it. (Not really though, because ew, wtf mate?)

Originally Posted by Uncle Rupee

The problem is they often force all their stable of smaller 2nd party developers into making games in existing franchises (especially Mario spin-offs) rather than allowing them to get creative with their own ideas.

Granted, there is the argument that a game will automatically sell better to Nintendo's audience if it is attached to an established brand. A good case in point is Alpha Dream, they made a great little GBA RPG called Tomato Adventure, but it would never be as popular as the Mario & Luigi series. At least, not unless it was given the chance to grow.

Which brings me to my point, which is that Nintendo isn't allowing their development teams to grow their own ideas much. So now, instead of having a genuinely new IP like Tomato Adventure to draw from, we have Mario & Luigi - which itself competes against the Paper Mario series!

Tomato Adventure is excellent. Shame in never came westward.

Originally Posted by Colonel Mustard

You forgot NOISE under Nintendo affiliates, OP.

Who are they again? I couldn't find an updated list (Again, this was from some semi-recent thread) so I just filled it with my own knowledge. Do they make Custom Robo?

Originally Posted by Busaiku

Gamefreak isn't owned by Nintendo.

They aren't? Learn something new every day.

If Nintendo published it/paid for development, it's Nintendo.

Originally Posted by Uncle Rupee

So now, instead of having a genuinely new IP like Tomato Adventure to draw from, we have Mario & Luigi - which itself competes against the Paper Mario series!

To be fair, Mario&Luigi were like the portable Mario RPG while Paper Mario was the console one. However, they totally ruined everything with Sticker Star so my point isn't true anymore haha.

I agree with the first reply here, if Nintendo owns the studio/IP then it's Nintendo.

They need more western studios to fill the gaps

People saying that they want "EAD" games are only partially right. The stuff that EAD works on is usually high quality, which is why people are thinking they want EAD games. But that's not what they really want.

Smash Bros is on its second iteration being handled by a team outside of Nintendo's first party studios and yet people consider it to be a "Nintendo" game. Mario Party has traditionally been produced outside of Nintendo first party studios and people consider it a "Nintendo" game.

What people exactly want isn't a game produced by Nintendo EAD. They want a high quality franchise with staying power. They want a new legendary franchise from Nintendo. Something that can last a very long time and be a new feather in Nintendo's cap of incredibly successful and exploitable IPs. The last time this happened was Pikmin and Animal Crossing, back in the Gamecube era.

Monolithsoft has generally produced one-offs so far. The Wonderful 101 is probably going to be a one-off. So these don't fit the bill. People want something new, but they also want that new thing to stick around.

Originally Posted by Shaanyboi

If Nintendo published it/paid for development, it's Nintendo.

Basically. Nintendo is one entity with a ton of developers and IPs a part of it. Sure, W101 is a Platinum game, but Nintendo paid for it, so it's their IP. And sure, some parts of Nintendo could be considered more Nintendo than others (EAD), but it's all under one big Nintendo umbrella.

So people should not write off W101 as "not a Nintendo game" when they allowed the game to exist with their own money.

If Nintendo owns the IP it's Nintendo to me.

Platinum with 101 is basically like Crytek with Ryse.

3rd party making a first party game. As in, Nintendo and Microsoft consider those games as first party games.

Y fold

Every game that Nintendo owns the IP to is a Nintendo game. Period.

A game does not have to be made by EAD to be "true" Nintendo. Studios like Monolithsoft, Retro, etc. are fully owned anyways and are just as much "true" Nintendo as EAD. Games made by second parties like Next Level Games or third parties like Platinum are still Nintendo so long as Nintendo owns the IP and/or is publishing the game.

The only time a Nintendo published game is not a Nintendo game is when it was developed by a different company and Nintendo is just publishing it in certain regions those companies choose not to (example: Bravely Default).

If Nintendo is publishing it in Japan at least (their home region), and/or all regions, and/or they own the IP...then it's a Nintendo game.

Miyamoto does not need to personally touch every Nintendo game (he didn't in the NES days anyways) to bless them as a Nintendo game. That being said, I am pretty sure he does get executive producer credit on just about everything that comes from the company since he is head of software.

The Wonderful 101 can be considered a non-Nintendo game when there exists even the tiniest sliver of a chance of it appearing on PS3 or PS4.

Originally Posted by DragonSworne

Miyamoto holds the title: Senior Managing Director, General Manager - Entertainment Analysis & Development Division and Representative Director


In order words, he runs the software show across all of Nintendo.

So in essence not so much a refined definition of "Nintendo game" as you just wanting to shit on Miyamoto a bit.

Job well done buddy.

Originally Posted by Toad.T

Who are they again? I couldn't find an updated list (Again, this was from some semi-recent thread) so I just filled it with my own knowledge. Do they make Custom Robo?.

They are indeed the Custom Robo guys.

Originally Posted by Roto13

The Wonderful 101 can be considered a non-Nintendo game when there exists even the tiniest sliver of a chance of it appearing on PS3 or PS4.

Are you serious? You can't be serious. Are you?