So no Metroid or Kirby or Smash or Pokemon or Fire Emblem or Advance Wars..etc. etc.Originally Posted by Otakumegane
How about doesn't have origins being made by EAD 1st.
Any game Nintendo's studios make (obviously), or any game that they collaborate with an outside studio on. Nintendo is known for their strict quality control so they won't just work with anyone.
Bayonetta isn't "Nintendo" but Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 are "Nintendo" because Nintendo closely oversaw the development process and ensured the quality is up to their standards.
Bayonetta isn't "Nintendo" but Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 are "Nintendo" because Nintendo closely oversaw the development process and ensured the quality is up to their standards.
Although I think there's an occasional jagged metal Nintend-o in there.
People erroneously cite this occurrence of "Nintendo publishing a third party game", that only happens on odd occassions when Nintendo distributes a game for a publisher "Ninja Gaiden 3 on Wii an example.
Games like Wonderful 101 and Sin & Punishment, aside from being Nintendo published and Nintendo IPs, ALWAYS have Nintendo production staff involved. So they are involved in the development. That is how it works.
Nintendo is such a traditional development company that people try to fit them with many of the contemporary models of today. It just doesn't work.
Games like Wonderful 101 and Sin & Punishment, aside from being Nintendo published and Nintendo IPs, ALWAYS have Nintendo production staff involved. So they are involved in the development. That is how it works.
Nintendo is such a traditional development company that people try to fit them with many of the contemporary models of today. It just doesn't work.
I know but it would still kind of lose it's appeal, you wouldn't have to buy a Nintendo console to play the game, you could just wait for the improved sequel on another console. When I think about what makes a Nintendo title I think about a game with great gameplay and graphics, superbly optimized for the hardware, and also a game that you simply can't play anywhere else than on their console.It can't lose it's meaning as a Nintendo IP because it simply IS a Nintendo IP. Nintendo could make another one if they wanted. They could put the characters in Smash Bros. if they wanted.
It's theirs. A Nintendo IP.
If Nintendo staff have a large hand in development, it's Nintendo.
smash is always the really big one too, all 3 and now 4 games were never developed by EAD yet its the most 1st party, 1st party title ever.Originally Posted by StreetsAhead
No Kirby, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Metroid, Rhythm Heaven, Fossil Fighters, Brain Age, Mario Party, Wii Party, Xenoblade, Wario, Advance Wars, Smash, Pokemon, Band Bros, Crashmo, or anything? Really?
I would consider these to be the core of Nintendo when referred to as "Nintendo", since their identity is tied with the essence of the company in such a way that they don't really have a separate identity from the brand name. Using Square Enix as a comparison, they would be like mainline Final Fantasy teams or Kingdom Hearts teams, in that they're often the first things that pop to mind when "Square Enix" is mentioned.EAD Kyoto Group No. 1 - Mr. Hideki Konno - Mario Kart 8
EAD Kyoto Group No. 2 - Mr. Katsuya Eguchi - Nintendo Land & Wii Sports U, Animal Crossing: New Leaf
EAD Kyoto Group No. 3 - Mr. Eiji Aonuma - Wind Waker HD, A Link Between Worlds
EAD Kyoto Group No. 4 - Mr. Hiroyuki Kimura - Pikmin 3 & NSMLU
EAD Kyoto Group No. 5 - Mr. Tadashi Sugiyama - Wii Fit U & Undisclosed Project?
EAD Tokyo Group No. 1 - Mr. Takao Shimizu - Panorama View
EAD Tokyo Group No. 2 - Mr. Yoshiaki Koizumi - Super Mario 3D World
SPD Group No. 1 - Mr. Yoshio Sakamoto - Tomodachi Collection 2 & Game & Wario W/ Intelligent Systems & Undisclosed Project?
SPD Group No. 2 - Mr. Hitoshi Yamagami - Smash Bros. U-3DS W/ Sora & Namco & Style Savyy 2 DLC W/ Syn Sophia & Joy Sound U W/ Tose
SPD Group No. 3 - Mr. Kensuke Tanabe - Sing Party with Freestyle Games, Undisclosed Project W/ Monster Games, Paper Mario 3DS W/ Intelligent Systems, Luigi's Mansion 3DS W/ Next Level Games
SPD Group No. 4 - Mr. Hiroshi Sato - Undisclosed Project
Software Development & Design Department - Mr. Kouichi Kawamoto - Brain-Age: Concentration Training & Band Brothers 3DS & Nintendo Tvii (Japanese Version)
Nintendo Software Technology - Mario & Donkey Kong: Mini's on the Move & Undisclosed Project
Nintendo European Research & Development - Wii U Chat
Nintendo Network Services - Wii U Services, 3DS Services
ND Cube - Mario Party Island Tour
I would consider these people to be part of Nintendo in the same way that Eidos is part of Square Enix or Armor Project is inexorably tied to Square Enix. Basically they're effectively part of the company, but when you say "Square Enix" they're not necessarily the first teams you think of, since you might expect them to be referred to as their individual studio name instead. An example of this is if I put up the thread "Square Enix to reveal two trailers at the VGX" and half the people who enter the thread go "Oh, you mean Eidos", since they have a different identity in their mind even if they're actually part of the company or completely tied to it.Retro Studios - Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
Monolith Soft - "X"
Game Freak- Pokémon X/Y, Harmoknight
Intelligent Systems - Paper Mario Sticker Star & Crashmo & Game & Wario W/ Nintendo SPD
HAL Laboratory - Kirby Triple Deluxe
Everyone else (I could be missing some that never make anything but Nintendo published games, move them to the category immediately above) I would consider to be a publishing deal a la Sleeping Dogs (United Front Games), Just Cause (Avalanche), or Heroes and Generals (Reto-Moto) with Square Enix. These are basically studios that are separate enough that they might even be making games for a different publisher, so while their games are Square Enix titles, they're not what I think of as "Square Enix developed titles" so much as "Square Enix published titles". If I wanted to ream Square Enix for not making enough new IPs, I would consider these as valid, but with an asterisk noting that they're not risking internal resources on them, and that they're not going to necessarily carry the same kind of identity as a game developed by Square Enix Japan or even necessarily Eidos.
Last edited by Nirolak; Today at 07:11 AM.
I guess I kinda fall into the whole "not made by the main Nintendo Teams" group. I mean, I know W101 is a new Nintendo IP, but it does not get my attention. Something about it doesn't scream "Nintendo" to me. It seems more like a third-party exclusive.
I'm probably one of those people that don't help Nintendo's current situation. If it isn't Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, F-Zero, or Smash Bros. related, chances are I'm not interested. I mean, those games usually grab my attention and I can have lot's of fun playing, but other series I might not. Hard to explain. There are some games that fall into those series that I don't like, but that's natural.
Either way, Nintendo games to me personally have to be fun and grab my interests the entire time. Some new IPs from Nintendo don't and they coincidentally made by the 'lesser' teams.
I'm probably one of those people that don't help Nintendo's current situation. If it isn't Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, F-Zero, or Smash Bros. related, chances are I'm not interested. I mean, those games usually grab my attention and I can have lot's of fun playing, but other series I might not. Hard to explain. There are some games that fall into those series that I don't like, but that's natural.
Either way, Nintendo games to me personally have to be fun and grab my interests the entire time. Some new IPs from Nintendo don't and they coincidentally made by the 'lesser' teams.
Not the same at all. Do you think Next Level developed Luigi's Mansion 2 with zero input and supervision from Nintendo? And I don't mean the obvious guidelines that are always in place when working with another company's IP.Yes, in the same way I don't consider a Star Wars game by EA a Disney game. This isnt rocket science brah.
Originally Posted by oconnomiyaki
. Is Binary Domain considered a Sega game or an Obsidian game? Surely we have the smarts to distinguish this.
I wish Binary Domain was a future Alpha Protocol developed by Obsidian.Originally Posted by foxuzamaki
Binary Domain is a sega game because they published it, obsidian cant just make another one if they feel like it, they actually would have to ask sega if they can because sega owns the IP....because they published it.
If Maynard James Keenan makes an album with A Perfect Circle, it's not a Tool album, just means a dude from Tool made an album with a different band.Originally Posted by Jaded Alyx
Not the same at all. Do you think Next Level developed Luigi's Mansion 2 with zero input and supervision from Nintendo? And I don't mean the obvious guidelines that are always in place when working with another company's IP.
The bulk of everything is being done by next level, with the assistance of outside talent. Doesn't mean that said outside talent gets to claim the creation as primarily theirs. I don't get this 'single drop' attitude you are displaying here.
And yes it's the same, Disney will have a say over what goes into the game as well, doesn't mean EA aren't doing most of the creating.
Last edited by pants; Today at 07:18 AM.
Well, they do. Rightly or wrongly. That's how publishing and owning the IP works.If Maynard James Keenan makes an album with A Perfect Circle, it's not a Tool album, just means a dude from Tool made an album with a different band.
The bulk of everything is being done by next level, with the assistance of outside talent. Doesn't mean that said outside talent gets to claim the creation as primarily theirs.
I started off by saying publishing is irrelevant. In your scenario here Disney is making the next Star Wars game, and strangely, Tool made Mer De Noms, A Thirteenth Step and Emotive. Baffling stuff mate.Originally Posted by Jaded Alyx
Well, they do. Rightly or wrongly. That's how publishing and owning the IP works.
Last edited by pants; Today at 07:21 AM.
No, because those Star Wars games are being both developed and published by EA. It's a licensing deal.I started off by saying publishing is irrelevant. In your scenario here Disney is making the next Star Wars game.
Nintendo development staff worked on Luigi's Mansion and every other game that Nintendo produces with studios they do not own directly.I started off by saying publishing is irrelevant. In your scenario here Disney is making the next Star Wars game.
Is Wii Fit U a Nintendo game? How about Paper Mario Sticker Star? Fire Emblem Awakening? Dillion's Rolling Western? Fossil Fighters? All of these games we co-developed by Nintendo studios with outside companies, much like Luigi was, to a greater and lesser extent.
What about Pikmin 3, Skyward Sword, or Link Between Worlds? They used an outside company for cut scenes.
Last edited by StreetsAhead; Today at 07:36 AM.
The company doesn't matter. For me it's about the games. I read over your list of companies/franchises, and here is the list of games that I care about:
"X"
Same standards as Sony:
Made by a Sony/Nintendo owned studio (Uncharted/Pikmin)
Sony/Nintendo owned IP (Ratchet and Clank/Pokemon)
Made with Sony/Nintendo's help (Soul Sacrifice/Wonderful 101)
Made by a Sony/Nintendo owned studio (Uncharted/Pikmin)
Sony/Nintendo owned IP (Ratchet and Clank/Pokemon)
Made with Sony/Nintendo's help (Soul Sacrifice/Wonderful 101)
I don't think that's entirely true either. I think the people complaining about new IP's just want an FPS. If you looks at the genres that Nintendo already covers, it's pretty much everything but FPS's and AAA-QTE fests. There's no point in Nintendo making a new Action-Adventure game because they already have the most recognizable and popular franchise in that genre, same with platforming, there's no point in competing with yourself. The new IP guys just want an FPS. If they could just say that instead of "Nintendo needs a new IP" that would make every conversation on the topic less confusing.People saying that they want "EAD" games are only partially right. The stuff that EAD works on is usually high quality, which is why people are thinking they want EAD games. But that's not what they really want.
Smash Bros is on its second iteration being handled by a team outside of Nintendo's first party studios and yet people consider it to be a "Nintendo" game. Mario Party has traditionally been produced outside of Nintendo first party studios and people consider it a "Nintendo" game.
What people exactly want isn't a game produced by Nintendo EAD. They want a high quality franchise with staying power. They want a new legendary franchise from Nintendo. Something that can last a very long time and be a new feather in Nintendo's cap of incredibly successful and exploitable IPs. The last time this happened was Pikmin and Animal Crossing, back in the Gamecube era.
Monolithsoft has generally produced one-offs so far. The Wonderful 101 is probably going to be a one-off. So these don't fit the bill. People want something new, but they also want that new thing to stick around.
All of that said, there really really really needs to be a Lego City: Undercover 2. That needs to be a recurring thing so badly, if it weren't for the load times it would easily be the GOTY.
Last edited by B-Dubs; Today at 07:41 AM.
Bayonetta 2 is published by nintendo but i dont consider it nintendo.
However, I consider TW101, Mario Strikers, Mario Party 6 nintendo games even though they were developed by third parties. Why? nintendo owns the IP.
What about monolith or retro games? 100% nintendo. Nintendo studios and nintendo IP. pretty much a non brainer.
However, I consider TW101, Mario Strikers, Mario Party 6 nintendo games even though they were developed by third parties. Why? nintendo owns the IP.
What about monolith or retro games? 100% nintendo. Nintendo studios and nintendo IP. pretty much a non brainer.
Not telling you to, but I'd at least consider Bayonetta 2 a Nintendo game, cause it might be non-existent without them.Originally Posted by boiled goose
Bayonetta 2 is published by nintendo but i dont consider it nintendo.
However, I consider TW101, Mario Strikers, Mario Party 6 nintendo games even though they were developed by third parties. Why? nintendo owns the IP.
What about monolith or retro games? 100% nintendo. Nintendo studios and nintendo IP. pretty much a non brainer.
wii sports, it was the first nintendo game i played
Just imagine, we could have been sitting here debating if Persona was a Nintendo game if they bought Atlus instead of Sega. Sony fans should rejoice that Iwata wasn't fired so that his replacement couldn't buy Atlus.
TW101, Dillon, Luigi's Mansion, 3D World, Xenoblade = all Nintendo to me.
It's not uncommon for people to associate franchises with their development teams rather than their owners/publishers, so if Nintendo bought Atlus, Persona would be a "Nintendo" franchise, but still probably much more closely related to Atlus as a brand still. Same now that Sega owns Atlus, technically Persona is now a "Sega" franchise, but it'll always be Atlus' in the minds of the fans, you know?Originally Posted by w1gglyjones
Just imagine, we could have been sitting here debating if Persona was a Nintendo game if they bought Atlus instead of Sega. Sony fans should rejoice that Iwata wasn't fired so that his replacement couldn't buy Atlus.
I'd say that what most people really want, regardless of what "counts" as Nintendo, is for the EAD division to make a new mascot IP that can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Mario, Zelda and Metroid.
Originally Posted by Jaded Alyx
No, because those Star Wars games are being both developed and published by EA. It's a licensing deal.
At the end of the day this thread is asking what is a Nintendo game to me, and that will always be, as I said, a game primarily developed by Nintendo. You guys can get all bent out of shape over it, that's your prerogative, but you're wasting your time if you think this is a debate or that I'm going to change my mind here.Originally Posted by StreetsAhead
Nintendo development staff worked on Luigi's Mansion and every other game that Nintendo produces with studios they do not own directly.
Is Wii Fit U a Nintendo game? How about Paper Mario Sticker Star? Fire Emblem Awakening? Dillion's Rolling Western? Fossil Fighters? All of these games we co-developed by Nintendo studios with outside companies, much like Luigi was, to a greater and lesser extent.
What about Pikmin 3, Skyward Sword, or Link Between Worlds? They used an outside company for cut scenes.
Last edited by pants; Today at 08:31 AM.
Monolith is Nintendo... from a recent Reggie interview
I’m seeing that Monolith Soft is popping up in a lot of games. To what extent are they involved with the main company now that they’ve been assimilated into Nintendo?
[Note: Monolith Soft have contributed to recent Nintendo games like Zelda: Skyward Sword, Animal Crossing: New Leaf and Zelda: A Link Between Worlds.]
Link
See the word "assimilated".
I’m seeing that Monolith Soft is popping up in a lot of games. To what extent are they involved with the main company now that they’ve been assimilated into Nintendo?
[Note: Monolith Soft have contributed to recent Nintendo games like Zelda: Skyward Sword, Animal Crossing: New Leaf and Zelda: A Link Between Worlds.]
Link
See the word "assimilated".
Then they should buy the new IPs that Nintendo release so that they don't figure it's a failed experiment and not push it much anymore.Originally Posted by Buddha Beam
I'd say that what most people really want, regardless of what "counts" as Nintendo, is for the EAD division to make a new mascot IP that can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Mario, Zelda and Metroid.
First party Nintendo games made in Japan.
Retro doesn't have the Nintendo magic.
Retro doesn't have the Nintendo magic.
If Heavy Rain is seen as a Sony title, I don't know why The Wonderful 101 shouldn't be considered a Nintendo title.
Do I get Club Nintendo points. Bam.
Would you really consider the CD-i Zelda games 'Nintendo' games though? Sure, they used a Nintendo IP, but Nintendo had pretty much nothing to do with the development of them IIRC. So I wouldn't consider them 'Nintendo games'. My criteria is: Nintendo have to have developed the game, or at least had a significant hand in helping an outside studio.
so basically the new IP issue is that the new IPs don't become "old IPs", right?Suppose the issue with many is not so much that there aren't new IPs at all, but that they tend to be one offs instead of developing into their own franchises, capable of being relied on each generation like the mainstay series.
So, Project X will transform Xenoblade (being its spiritual successor, it seems?) into a classic IP, so if they'll develop XSaga for the next console, it will not be a new IP, but the reiteration of a classic one? And: would that be good or bad?
I'm confused :\
List of devs that overwhelmingly works on Nintendo platforms, has partnered with Nintendo on games or has worked on Nitendo IP:
"Nintendo"
EAD
SPD
IRD
SDD
1-Up Studio
Creatures Inc.
HAL Laboratory
Monolith Soft
Nd Cube
Retro Studios
Alpha Dream
Super Tight With Nintendo Might as well be "Nintendo"
Ambrella
Game Freak
indieszero
Jupiter
Paon
Skip Ltd.
Suzak Inc.
Tight with Nintendo Pretty much only makes new games on Nintendo platforms
Arika
Camelot Software Planning(I would do terrible things for a Wii U Golden Sun or even better, PS4)
Ganbarion
Genius Sonority
Good-Feel
Grezzo
Monster Games
Noise
Tose Co., Ltd.
Vanpool
Sometimes sports a semi for Nintendo NOT even close to being "Nintendo"
Arzest
Atlus
Eighting
iNiS
Kuju Entertainment
Level-5
Mistwalker
Namco Bandai Games
Next Level Games
Platinum Games
Red Entertainment Corporation
Sandlot
Sega
Square Enix
Syn Sophia
Tecmo Koei
Treasure
"Nintendo"
EAD
SPD
IRD
SDD
1-Up Studio
Creatures Inc.
HAL Laboratory
Monolith Soft
Nd Cube
Retro Studios
Alpha Dream
Super Tight With Nintendo Might as well be "Nintendo"
Ambrella
Game Freak
indieszero
Jupiter
Paon
Skip Ltd.
Suzak Inc.
Tight with Nintendo Pretty much only makes new games on Nintendo platforms
Arika
Camelot Software Planning(I would do terrible things for a Wii U Golden Sun or even better, PS4)
Ganbarion
Genius Sonority
Good-Feel
Grezzo
Monster Games
Noise
Tose Co., Ltd.
Vanpool
Sometimes sports a semi for Nintendo NOT even close to being "Nintendo"
Arzest
Atlus
Eighting
iNiS
Kuju Entertainment
Level-5
Mistwalker
Namco Bandai Games
Next Level Games
Platinum Games
Red Entertainment Corporation
Sandlot
Sega
Square Enix
Syn Sophia
Tecmo Koei
Treasure
Last edited by Ulumsk; Today at 10:54 AM.
PSA: There is no second party. Such thing doesn´t exist.
Please continue.
Edit: Monolith is no affiliate.
Please continue.
Edit: Monolith is no affiliate.
Last edited by Interceptor; Today at 10:35 AM.
Curve Studios isn't Nintendo for sure, and neither is Platinum. W101 and Bayo 2 are just Nintendo exclusives to me. You wouldn't call Persona Q a Nintendo game just because it's exclusive to 3DS, no?
It really doesn't matter in the end, though. W101 is a perfectly valid game to list when referring to Wii U exclusive of course, even if it's not made by Nintendo.
It really doesn't matter in the end, though. W101 is a perfectly valid game to list when referring to Wii U exclusive of course, even if it's not made by Nintendo.
And this.Originally Posted by Interceptor
PSA: There is no second party. Such thing doesn´t exist.
Please continue.
W101 and bayo2 are 2 different cases, bayonetta as a franchise, may possibly continue on another console or whatever minus bayo2 but W101 is a nintendo IP, anytime there is anything having to do with that IP, it will have something to do with nintendo, its not a one and done thing, its all nintendo, but was developed by platinum games, its more than just a exclusive, its a 1st party title.Curve Studios isn't Nintendo for sure, and neither is Platinum. W101 and Bayo 2 are just Nintendo exclusives to me. You wouldn't call Persona Q a Nintendo game just because it's exclusive to 3DS, no?
It really doesn't matter in the end, though. W101 is a perfectly valid game to list when referring to Wii U exclusive of course, even if it's not made by Nintendo.
And this.
It's two things here:
Regarding studios, I pretty much agree with Nirolak.
As for games, it's basically any game published by Nintendo / Nintendo IPs, though games like W101 and Bayonetta 2 of course have a somewhat split personality. To me they are perhaps first and foremost Platinum games, but on the other hand they wouldn't exist without nintendo publishing them.
Regarding studios, I pretty much agree with Nirolak.
As for games, it's basically any game published by Nintendo / Nintendo IPs, though games like W101 and Bayonetta 2 of course have a somewhat split personality. To me they are perhaps first and foremost Platinum games, but on the other hand they wouldn't exist without nintendo publishing them.
Last edited by Roboleon; Today at 10:58 AM.
Persona Q and Wonderful 101 are completely different. Nintendo was involved with the development of Wonderful 101 with a director and a producer overseeing that they got what they wanted.Curve Studios isn't Nintendo for sure, and neither is Platinum. W101 and Bayo 2 are just Nintendo exclusives to me. You wouldn't call Persona Q a Nintendo game just because it's exclusive to 3DS, no?
Persona Q is just Atlus going "so it might be pretty cool to do a game for 3DS." Nintendo just licenses the software and has nothing to do with it otherwise.
Since this topic is related to Nintendo, let's quote Iwata:Originally Posted by Interceptor
PSA: There is no second party. Such thing doesn´t exist.
Please continue.
Edit: Monolith is no affiliate.
Technically a company is either independent from the platform holder or it's not, but second-party is well established enough as a term for edge cases that Nintendo uses it in investor briefings.In fact, some of the software titles published by Nintendo are developed by outside developing companies, called "second-party developers" in this industry. There are already a lot of companies which receive various advice from Nintendo in the process of software development and whose products are sold under the brand of Nintendo, and for instance, I was working for one of such companies, HAL Laboratory, Inc., which developed "Kirby's Dream Land" and "Super Smash Bros."
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