NeoGAF

Originally Posted by Reila

Point made, but half of this list is far from being good games.

Which ones specifically? I'll grant you some are clearly better than others but I can't name one game on the list that is bad. I own most of them too so I have tried a lot of them.

Originally Posted by Trent Strong

Pokémon? Seriously?

1 million sales in 24 hours in the US alone. You clearly have no idea just how big Pokémon is.

Originally Posted by ;92487376

P

Well I just hope that the DSi is old enough now that they can crib the design and make a standard size 3DS remodel which is as sleek as that.

I've had one for ages but I hardly touch the thing. Cheap feeling, few games I want on it (Zelda, Kart and that's about it) small screen, terrible touch, marks on bottom screen caused by top.

I hope OP gets banned for this sacrilege.

Originally Posted by Nibel

It's a handheld from Nintendo, not a smartphone

drag ha

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

Painful might've been the wrong word. I guess what I meant is that the low PPI is most evident when reading text. It's not that it's hard to read the text, it's more that it just looks so ugly and outdated after using much higher resolution screens all day. There's no font or styling that gets around the fact you can clearly make out each individual pixel.


It won't. It just won't. I've had 960x540 on a 3.5" screen for more than 3 years.

240p can't be considered decent for anything outside of calculators or wristwatches.

Why It won't ? Suddenly because you've been spoiled by 700€ devices, pixels will grown bigger on the screen itself ?
And as you said, you talked about PPI. 240p on a 3,5 inch screen is decent.

Originally Posted by BomberMouse

Long story short, got a 3DS not too long ago and I'm incredibly disappointed by it. It get's so much praise but there's so much wrong with this console it's amazing. Everything about it is extremely underwhelming, from hardware to software (OS). Some annoying stuff off the top of my head:

• Archaic download system. Can't download and play at the same time, either I'm stuck on the eShop or I have to close my console. worried about online shit
• Horrible account system, why are passwords for my CC between 4 and 8 characters? Please don't tell me nintendo stores them as plain text. Can't think of any other reason to limit password length.worried about online shit
• eShop is awful to navigate and to use.worried about online shit
• UI is horrible. Ugly and horribly inconsistent. How come I can't fully use the OS without the stylus? Why sometimes B takes me back but other times not? Why I can't use the home button sometims? What is the deal with the inconsistent buttons all over the place? etc.worried about nongaming shit
• It's slow. Not dead slow but orders of magnitude slower than the competition.worried about nongaming shit
• They try to squeeze every penny out of you! There's nothing free, they sell you clocks and notepads. Even demos have a limited number of uses.worried about online shit
• Multitasking is a joke.worried about online shit
• Region Lock.worried about nongaming shit
• Hardware design is awful. The whole purpose of the clamshell design is pointless when the console doesn't close completely. The damn touch screen is a joke and requires you to use a protector since the stylus damages it way too easy. That damn volume slider is a terrible idea and it's too easy to hit by accident, buttons feel very cheap, etc. maybe this is a legitimate concern before the 3DSXL came out
• The ergonomics are terrible. The original GBA was the last decent console design by nintendo which felt right. maybe this is a legitimate concern before the 3DSXL came out
• Terrible battery life, probably the worst battery life out of any handheld out there.my game gear is worse

I don't even want to talk about the stupid account system or the horrible, horrible screen. It has a worse screen than the PSP had in 2005. 3D games look so bad on a XL.

Any other new owner disappointed by it? iOS gaming lacks some decent input methods but it gets everything else so damn right.

Have you tried walking into a store and buying and playing a game?

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

Painful might've been the wrong word. I guess what I meant is that the low PPI is most evident when reading text. It's not that it's hard to read the text, it's more that it just looks so ugly and outdated after using much higher resolution screens all day. There's no font or styling that gets around the fact you can clearly make out each individual pixel.

I guess, but I think the argument about jaggies is a lot more potent as that bothered me a lot more in Luigi's Mansion 2 than I expected. Reading text is more of a functional rather than aesthetic thing to me so it doesn't bother me on that front.

Dunno, the games are amazing. Don't really care about the rest.

It has the right software
alas the hardware irrelevant

Originally Posted by Basileus777

Lol. We have 1080p screen phones in 2013, in 2016 480p would be a joke. Hell, it'd be a joke today.

Lol, I'm sure that i'd be a great thing to waste all those ressources on 1080p on such a small screen. And I have a 1080p screen phone too.

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

As far as portable devices go, I own a 3DS, an iPhone, an iPad and a Vita. Three of those four have nice, modern screens. One of them has an awful screen. I haven't been 'spoiled' at all, I just have expectations in line with modern devices. My Vita sure as shit didn't cost £600.


For you, maybe. It isn't good enough for me though.

I think that's the crux here. Low resolutions don't bother you, they do bother me. Neither of us is suddenly going to feel any different.

And yet, Vita cannot keep native res on all games. Even Killzone use dynamic res. That's just prove my point that instead of aiming for lot of pixels screens, we should first wait that hardware is capable of displaying them.

Sounds to me you'll be much happier to just stick to smartphone gaming, OP.

These days they have controller for that. I bet you'll be a much happier man like that instead of forcing yourself to play a 3DS.

Just sell/give/throw your 3DS away and stick with smartphone gaming from now on.

I share every single one of those concerns OP, basically why I'm going Vita only for now, hoping they fix at least half of those before buying. I could try the console in all its models extensively from friends though, so thankfully I knew about it without having to buy the console.

The screen and region lock are clearly the worst parts.

Originally Posted by monlo

Have you tried walking into a store and buying and playing a game?

Great arguments, good sir.

Originally Posted by monlo

Have you tried walking into a store and buying and playing a game?

You're not going to buy Ace Attorney 5 in a store. Well, maybe you can, but even if you get an eShop card you still have to go into the eShop to redeem it.

Originally Posted by Laughing Banana

Sounds to me you'll be much happier to just stick to smartphone gaming, OP.

These days they have controller for that. I bet you'll be a much happier man like that instead of forcing yourself to play a 3DS.

Just sell/give/throw your 3DS away and stick with smartphone gaming from now on.

But smart phones aren't made of pure gold and feed him grapes from overhead. He may be disappointed.

Originally Posted by GhostTrick

Lol, I'm sure that i'd be a great thing to waste all those ressources on 1080p on such a small screen. And I have a 1080p screen phone too.

I think 720p might be a reasonable alternative. 480 just suggests cheap hardware. And these devices use the same hardware as phones/tablets, they should be plenty capable of better resolutions by 2016-2017.

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

Much as I know it makes me look stupid, I've stopped playing Luigi's Mansion 2 because of the jaggies. It's a constant distraction and a constant reminder that I'm playing on something that I really don't want to support. I know I should just get over it and play the game, but I can't.

Well you effectively voted with your money so might as well play it :P It's a great game. I mean yeah the jaggies are really godawful for some reason in LM2 and the 2D mode doesn't offer any kind of smoothing/anti-aliasing like say, OoT 3D or RE:R so I at least understand, lol.

Originally Posted by Stoze

I mentioned in my post that it is still uncomfortable with the grip I bought for it. Also, that grip is for a regular 3DS, not an XL. It feels like it needs a much heavier and thicker bottom to be more comfortable. I'm afraid the same thing might happen with the gamepad when I buy a Wii U.

Oh sorry didn't catch that you mentioned owning a grip already. The part about slicing up a 360 controller was what jumped out to me in your post. :p

The hardware isn't all that hot, true. But the games make a game system's value for me. In that light the 3DS has given me the best value this year by far.

Also, people want cheap handhelds because they have phones for all the other stuff. What do you expect for 150 bucks? Multitasking like an Android phone for four times the price? It's the best system for games right now. I play it more and have more fun with it than all my other systems combined. If you let things like multitasking and the design of the UI hamper your enjoyment of games, that's your loss.

Originally Posted by GhostTrick

And yet, Vita cannot keep native res on all games. Even Killzone use dynamic res. That's just prove my point that instead of aiming for lot of pixels screens, we should first wait that hardware is capable of displaying them.

We were talking about the next system. I'd have thought driving a 960x540 or 1280x720 screen will be a piece of piss by then.

Regardless of dynamic resolution, Killzone Mercs is still far and away the best looking handheld game ever made. Seeing it running in your hands is a fucking marvel.

Originally Posted by Magicpaint

Well you effectively voted with your money so might as well play it :P It's a great game. I mean yeah the jaggies are really godawful for some reason in LM2 and the 2D mode doesn't offer any kind of smoothing/anti-aliasing like say, OoT 3D or RE:R so I at least understand, lol.

I'll definitely play it eventually, I adored the first game. I'm chugging through DKC: R at the moment but it's next on my list for sure.

I really wish I could maintain the 3D effect on my XL. DK and LM2 both seem like they use it really well but I just can't hold the sweet spot on my XL. Never had that issue with my OG 3DS :(

Yes some of those are valid complaints. But once you spend 100+ hours in fire emblem you won't even remember them.

What's with the hyperbole going on this thread here? The way everyone react is like wow.

Some without any proper argument just shot and called 3DS=trash? It is not like 3DS is so bad that it destroy your hands.

Originally Posted by Aeneas

Yes some of those are valid complaints. But once you spend 100+ hours in fire emblem you won't even remember them.

I remember them.

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

I really wish I could maintain the 3D effect on my XL. DK and LM2 both seem like they use it really well but I just can't hold the sweet spot on my XL. Never had that issue with my OG 3DS :(

I have the same problem. 3D is unusable on the XL, there's no comfortable way to maintain viewing angles.

Originally Posted by monlo

But smart phones aren't made of pure gold and feed him grapes from overhead. He may be disappointed.

Well, he already said that "iOS gaming gets everything else so damn right" except the control method, and these days they sell controllers to solve that issue for him, right?

I mean, by the looks of it, he seems disgusted by the 3DS, so why keep it? Sell it, and use the money from that to buy a controller for his iPad/phone, and boom, done.

That way he can really enjoy all the fantastic games iOS has to offer instead of getting agitated over his terribly underwhelming 3DS. Like I said, he can be a much happier person that way.

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

We were talking about the next system. I'd have thought driving a 960x540 or 1280x720 screen will be a piece of piss by then.

Regardless of dynamic resolution, Killzone Mercs is still far and away the best looking handheld game ever made. Seeing it running in your hands is a fucking marvel.

Maybe if we're talking about technical stuff, it looks good. Otherwise, when it comes to what's displayed, I think a lot of games takes the edge, games released on previous hardware.

But sure, we were talking about the next system, and I was talking about how aiming for too high res result in a waste of performance. Killzone Mercs on a 480p screen would be native res, with higher framerate for exemple.
And when you know that even PS4 or Xbox One can't display all games in 1080p... what makes you think next handhelds will ?

Originally Posted by Ulumsk

Has a bunch of great fucking games, but the OS and Hardware makes me want to spend as little time with it as possible. Vita is basically the mirror opposite, but the Vita still gets way more use from me.

-XL owner

Basically this. Since I'm not that big on Nintendo games besides FE, the game selection is looking much smaller already, minus the ones I can't play because of the region lock, some on the E-Shop I refuse to buy until a proper account system is implemented, we're down to a handful of games. I also would do more impulse buys if the screens were not so terribly low res in the era of smartphones and the vita.
But I guess this is exactly the recreation of the PSP-DS situation for me.

Originally Posted by SmokyDave

I'll definitely play it eventually, I adored the first game. I'm chugging through DKC: R at the moment but it's next on my list for sure.

I really wish I could maintain the 3D effect on my XL. DK and LM2 both seem like they use it really well but I just can't hold the sweet spot on my XL. Never had that issue with my OG 3DS :(

DKC:R is great. I didn't play the inferior 30fps 3DS version, though :P

As for 3D viewing angle, I figured that one out about a week after owning it. It did feel worse than the OG 3DS initially though. Maybe there's a learning curve to it which makes experiences vary so much, lol.

I got a XL last week, and being a Vita owner since launch it's not been an easy transition going from one to the other, that's for sure. Still, as long as it delivers on the games front then I guess I can't complain, it's just hard to ignore the downgrade in hardware and features when I've grown so accustomed to the Vita for my handheld kicks.

And why are 3DS games always so damn expensive here in the UK?! Games that came out 6 months or even a year ago are still £30+ everywhere I look. No wonder Nintendo are failing so hard here. I want to experiment with the system a bit, play some games that I would not normally play, but I can't because these prices won't budge.

Originally Posted by Basileus777

I have the same problem. 3D is unusable on the XL, there's no comfortable way to maintain viewing angles.

Opposite for me. My time with a relative's 3DS left such a negative impression on me (with regards to the stereoscopic 3D) that years later when the 2DS came out I was convinced that was the model for me.

I ended up getting an XL for the bigger screen, with the intention of leaving the 3D always off. But after a little acclimation period I'm used to having the 3D on most of the time now. I think it's a viewing distance thing since it's not always "automatic" for me. Sometimes I even need to look at the screen while sliding from min to max 3D for my eyes to see the effect. Sounds like a hassle but it's usually worth it for games like Zelda ALBW.

Originally Posted by Basileus777

I have the same problem. 3D is unusable on the XL, there's no comfortable way to maintain viewing angles.

Yup. Really bums me out because I love 3D. I used to have it at 100% all the time until I switched to an XL and now I never use it.

Originally Posted by GhostTrick

Maybe if we're talking about technical stuff, it looks good. Otherwise, when it comes to what's displayed, I think a lot of games takes the edge, games released on previous hardware.

I'm just going to assume that we approach 'good graphics' from wildly different directions. I suspect you're one of those cats that could hold a straight face whilst saying that some SNES games look better than PS4 games. Fair enough, I can't argue with the 'art style over all else' viewpoint.

But sure, we were talking about the next system, and I was talking about how aiming for too high res result in a waste of performance. Killzone Mercs on a 480p screen would be native res, with higher framerate for exemple.
And when you know that even PS4 or Xbox One can't display all games in 1080p... what makes you think next handhelds will ?

Killzone Mercs looks and runs fine as it is.

I don't think the next handhelds should be 1080p. There's a reason I said 960x540 and 1280x720.

My 3DS has been a dust magnet since I stopped playing Animal Crossing: NL over the summer (I don't think I have even turned it on since September), but I recently picked up SMTIV and Project X Zone so I'll be starting both of those over the Holiday break.

Originally Posted by Acquiescence

I got a XL last week, and being a Vita owner since launch it's not been an easy transition going from one to the other, that's for sure. Still, as long as it delivers on the games front then I guess I can't complain, it's just hard to ignore the downgrade in hardware and features when I've grown so accustomed to the Vita for my handheld kicks.

And why are 3DS games always so damn expensive here in the UK?! Games that came out 6 months or even a year ago are still £30+ everywhere I look. No wonder Nintendo are failing so hard here. I want to experiment with the system a bit, play some games that I would not normally play, but I can't because these prices won't budge.

Yeah, it's ridiculous how a game like Tearaway can be found for £20 and most 3DS games are going for £35 -- doesn't help that Nintendo games hold their values for a long, long time. Still, Harvest Moon: A New Beginning and Star Fox 64 3D are great games you can find for ~£20. You can also try online, sometimes Amazon, Gamestop UK and Play do some sales. 3D Land was going for less than £20 on Gamestop UK a while back but that unfortunately has ended now.

Originally Posted by BomberMouse

• Archaic download system. Can't download and play at the same time, either I'm stuck on the eShop or I have to close my console.
  No issue with this. I just let it download and do something else while it's downloading.
  
• eShop is awful to navigate and to use.
  Not the best, but not that bad. To me it's on the same level as the android app store.
  
• UI is horrible. Ugly and horribly inconsistent. How come I can't fully use the OS without the stylus? Why sometimes B takes me back but other times not? Why I can't use the home button sometims? What is the deal with the inconsistent buttons all over the place? etc.
  I never had issues with the UI. In fact, I find it easier to use than most other console UIs.
  
• It's slow. Not dead slow but orders of magnitude slower than the competition.
  Slow doing what exactly? It plays games right and it has good loading times. Not sure whats meant by slow.
  
• Multitasking is a joke.
  I can stop a game and use the internet. I see no problem with the multitasking.
  
• Hardware design is awful. The whole purpose of the clamshell design is pointless when the console doesn't close completely. The damn touch screen is a joke and requires you to use a protector since the stylus damages it way too easy. That damn volume slider is a terrible idea and it's too easy to hit by accident, buttons feel very cheap, etc.
  The console does close completely. You can use your finger or thumb on the 3DS touch screen.

A lot of what you said is pretty subjective. I don't really agree with most of it.

It makes my hands cramp, The back panel is loose because they only used one screw, the 3d isn't worth the performance hit, the OS is slow, there is no account system, the virtual console service is just a joke, there isn't a second analog stick.

Honestly, it's pretty much the shittiest handheld on the market, but it actually has a gang of amazing exclusive games so I keep playing it.

Originally Posted by CaptainAhab

It makes my hands cramp, The back panel is loose because they only used one screw, the 3d isn't worth the performance hit, the OS is slow, there is no account system, the virtual console service is just a joke, there isn't a second analog stick.

Honestly, it's pretty much the shittiest handheld on the market, but it actually has a gang of amazing exclusive games so I keep playing it.

This is (sort of) how I feel, games like 3D Land, Fire Emblem, OOT 3D, MK7 warranted my purchase but the hardware of the machine I'm just not that happy with. I even have a 3DS XL and I don't have gorilla hands either but it still gives me hand cramps after playing it for over an hour.

A lot of those things are really minor especially when you consider how fantastic the game library is.

Outside of software 3ds is hot garbage, everyone knows this

The system itself is pretty disappointing, especially when you have a Vita.
I feel like the 3DS is about as advanced as my 2005er PSP.

That doesn't change the fact that the 3DS has tons of awesome games and at the end of the day that counts.

I hate the 3DS for giving such a gigantic backlog of games. Pokemon XY and Animal Crossing are too fun to drop for other games!

The ONLY bad thing about the 3DS is the total lack of a new Advance Wars.

IMO, it only gets praise for it's game library.

At least I've never seen people try and argue that it's great hardware/software (granted, I haven't read this thread so there could be people doing that here).

Personally, I agree. Not a 'new' owner though, got it when it was still $250 (*sigh*). It's underwhelming hardware with some nice games. I don't enjoy playing it that much. Especially compared to my Vita. Games like Code of Princess that don't use the touch/second screen disappoint me especially. Why aren't they on PS Vita too? I actually enjoy playing on my Vita, so I'd enjoy the game more there. *sigh*

Wish more Japanese developers would do handheld multiplats, give us options.

Still like my 3DS though.

I get disliking the 3DS, but in this day and age, I see zero excuse for being surprised.

Most of the things you list I don't mind, but if I did, id be watching YouTube vids and reading opinions on all of them before I decide to buy one.

And this is dumb, bit I prefer low res.

Originally Posted by Elvick

Personally, I agree. Not a 'new' owner though, got it when it was still $250 (*sigh*). It's underwhelming hardware with some nice games. I don't enjoy playing it that much. Especially compared to my Vita. Games like Code of Princess that don't use the touch/second screen disappoint me especially. Why aren't they on PS Vita too?

Because the 3DS has a much larger install base, in part because it costs less, which in part comes from the hardware not being as advanced as the Vita.

These things are all related. It's not like Nintendo couldn't make a more powerful portable. The fact that Nintendo portables aren't too expensive is a large part of the reason they have the libraries they do.

That's why it doesn't make sense to say "the hardware is bad but the software is good", or to say the reverse for Vita. Part of the reason Vita software is bad is that it costs too much, nobody bought it, so nobody makes games for it. People act like creating more powerful takes some sort of incredible skill - it doesn't. It's a business decision with a lot of factors involved.

Ok as a launch buyer these are my random views on the 3DS:

- The XL should have been the launch 3DS
- 3D is shit and the screen sucks
- except for the new Zelda. Seriously turn the 3D on!
- Streetpass is awesome!
- The UI is horrible.
- The browser is horrible.
- It´s too fat
- Streetpass is awesome!
- The Louvre App is awesome! More like this please.

Owning both a Vita and a 3DS i think i can comment on this with a good understanding of both consoles.
Note: i'm on my 4th 3DS, i had a launch model, sold it to buy the Zelda 3DS with Ocarina, i won a pikachu 3DS XL and i've recently sold both of those to buy the Zelda 3DS XL which is the best of the 4

The 3DS has good build quality, but has niggling issues like screen rub, the 3DSXL has slightly better build quality, but out of the two i've owned one felt flexible and not as sturdy as it could be, the Zelda one i have now is perfect and feels close to Vita build quality.
OS wise it does the job, you can navigate it using buttons so i don't know what the issue there is, unless you are refering to using a DS game in it, when its emulating DS mode....The issue with the OS is the account system (which seems to be finally coming) and the eshop which is revised frequently enough, and is better than it was at launch...oh wait months after launch even

The Vita on the other hand feels like i could use most of it as a brick, the only issue is the triggers feel far far too loose, allowing them to rattle a little, and obviously OLED bleed/black blobs (i forget the correct term)
OS wise.......god its ugly sorry but it is, the icons are too large and pointless, folders are stupidly small meaning you have to have multiple pages of icons, i think visually its much worse than the 3DS, it feels like the 3DS OS made for people with poor eyesight....
I hope they switch to a PS4 OS, or even something more tiled like
BUT it works great, the PSN store is better than eshop, and downloads work better in that you can game while they are in opperation, but they take so long most of the time it might as well be the same as the 3DS' sleep mode download, which isnt bad really.

Online infrastructure it might be better, it s a shame i have virtually no games that are worth playing online on it! Killzone might be the only one worth bothering and its a stable as Resident evil on 3DS was, so ive personally seen no difference.

BUT all that said, my vita is a brick, it sits there unused and unloved until i want to replay a PSone game or PSP game on it, or in a rare occurance (such as with tareaway and Killzone) an actual Vita game, where as i can't keep up with my 3DS' games, my backlog of games is ever increasing, so much so its meant i've yet to finish the Last of Us for my PS3 and loads on my WiiU...and then theres my steam library...
In a way my 3DS is the best and worst console, it takes so much of my time on its awesome games library that it stops me playing on other consoles, even other nintendo ones!

TL:DR Vita is better hardware, OS's both have their own faults, GAMES libraries are what counts and the 3DS's decimates not just handheld but console competition