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When do you think Microsoft will react to potentially losing next gen battle?

M

mangochutney

Member
TheFurizzlyBear said:
"Not leading" and "doing poorly" are separate things. Sony is definitely leading and that's not what MS wants but if you think they are doing poorly then I don't think anybody will convince you otherwise.
Click to expand...
I disagree.

Some of those in the Xbox camp will point to them breaking Xbox* records, and therefore whilst they're behind compared to the PS4, they're still doing great, but that's the wrong way to look at it.

If you think of the US market, Microsoft was very dominant in the last generation. They had the lion's share of the market. And that is what is important to a business - at all times you must strive to at the very least maintain your market position and keep trying to gain share.

You're addressable market may fluctuate but your share should always remain the same or better. So in other words it would not matter if Microsoft had sold 500,000,000 Xbox One consoles in 24 hours if the PS4 sold 800,000,000 in the same period because they've lost market share - they have in effect lost in excess of 300,000,000 sales.
 
P

Pestilence11

Member
If either company were to bow out of the console business it would be really bad for us. I don't think a lot of people in this thread realize that. I'd like MS to stick around to keep SONY on their toes.
 
Gormless Noodle

Gormless Noodle

Member
TheFurizzlyBear said:
"Not leading" and "doing poorly" are separate things. Sony is definitely leading and that's not what MS wants but if you think they are doing poorly then I don't think anybody will convince you otherwise.
Click to expand...

Yeah. People seem to really be jumping the gun here with the Xbone doom talk, we're still in a place where either could lose or gain momentum at the drop of a hat and overtake the other. Sony's in a good spot, that goes without saying but let's wait and see how things progress throughout the year.
 
C

Crimsonsky

Member
Let's temper the fervor here with a little reality. The Xbone is still selling well, and has been since launch. MS won't "react" until they need to and that won't happen until Xbone's are sitting on shelves for long stretches of time.

E3 will tell a better tale, but even that maybe too soon. I wouldn't be making any definitive calls until late 2014/2015.
 
S

SwiftDeath

Member
If a kinectless $400 XB1 SKU is not revealed at or before E3 I will be legitimately shocked.

There is a small [very small] chance that they just drop the price to $399 with kinect in but I really doubt it.
 
C

ChosenPredator

Banned
Them losing might equate to some of the best games we'll ever get on a Microsoft platform, so we'll see how heavy they go with them games ..since thats what gamers want, maybe they go bananas bringing back classics lol
 
B

Beerman462

Member
Is it just me or have there been more PS4 ads than Xbox One. I think I see the "Perfect Day" commercial like 5 times a day. I guess I could be missing them or maybe MS is biding their time saving up for a Titanfall rush. I think MS and EA are going to regret betting on Titanfall.
 
J

jelly

Member
Xbox is an attempt at the living room and a showcase of Microsoft services, the latter particularly is important to Microsoft as Xbox is a wide reaching consumer device that is a successful outsider and allowed to think outside the box sometimes.

Mobile and streaming has been taking over and there is little need for a hulking black box that does these simple things which aren't gaming so as Windows Phone continues to make gains and Surface might become a thing I think Xbox will be scaled back from big gaming to a much smaller box that excels at streaming and content services while showcasing the best Microsoft has to offer like Skype, SkyDrive, Windows apps etc.

Basically the ultimate companion to any TV, Phone, PC, Tablet. All your media anywhere. Limited game ability.
 
A

avaya

Member
MercuryLS said:
Sony will handily massacre MS in Japan and much of the EU. US and UK are the only markets XB1 has a chance and right now MS is being heavily outsold by Sony in those regions too. They might be able to equalize with Sony in those two markets with some strong price cuts and exclusives, but everywhere else the story's already been written. It's not a stretch to say that PS4 will pull away and be the dominant system this gen sales wise, it will not be a repeat of last gen when it comes to sales.
Click to expand...

UK's done and dusted too. US is the only place this could become interesting.
 
S

sechsterangriff

Member
In some places they (Microsoft) are already spending €500 in marketing per unit sold. They might as well do a price-drop instead.

Anyway, I'm sure Microsoft went into this generation with no illusions of winning in terms of marketshare, and instead focused on profitability. That explains the service oriented nature of the platform instead of games and the launch only in key markets. What I think they didn't realize is the impact early adopters now have as as trend-setters. With the help of social-networks, word-of-mouth has more reach than ever, and when your platform is $100 more expensive, tied to anti-consumer policies and increasingly weaker in the eyes your audience, you actually risk irrelevancy.
 
N

N.Domixis

Banned
mangochutney said:
I disagree.

Some of those in the Xbox camp will point to them breaking Xbox* records, and therefore whilst they're behind compared to the PS4, they're still doing great, but that's the wrong way to look at it.

If you think of the US market, Microsoft was very dominant in the last generation. They had the lion's share of the market. And that is what is important to a business - at all times you must strive to at the very least maintain your market position and keep trying to gain share.

You're addressable market may fluctuate but your share should always remain the same or better. So in other words it would not matter if Microsoft had sold 500,000,000 Xbox One consoles in 24 hours if the PS4 sold 800,000,000 in the same period because they've lost market share - they have in effect lost in excess of 300,000,000 sales.
Click to expand...

Technically Xbox one has not broken any records, because all the previous records were broken by the ps4 first,leading to a higher record for the xb1 to break.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
They are competing for marketshare, but if the market is big enough, they dont need to 'win' to consider the project a success.
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
mangochutney said:
I disagree.

Some of those in the Xbox camp will point to them breaking Xbox* records, and therefore whilst they're behind compared to the PS4, they're still doing great, but that's the wrong way to look at it.

If you think of the US market, Microsoft was very dominant in the last generation. They had the lion's share of the market. And that is what is important to a business - at all times you must strive to at the very least maintain your market position and keep trying to gain share.

You're addressable market may fluctuate but your share should always remain the same or better. So in other words it would not matter if Microsoft had sold 500,000,000 Xbox One consoles in 24 hours if the PS4 sold 800,000,000 in the same period because they've lost market share - they have in effect lost in excess of 300,000,000 sales.
Click to expand...

You (and others) are speaking as if things have only been Sony and MS. Again, MS lost to Nintendo last gen in terms of sales.

They can stil gain marketshare this gen while still being behind Sony... Especially if the number of consoles sold overall for this gen are lower than last gen.
 
H

Hoo-doo

Banned
SwiftDeath said:
If a kinectless $400 XB1 SKU is not revealed at or before E3 I will be legitimately shocked.

There is a small [very small] chance that they just drop the price to $399 with kinect in but I really doubt it.
Click to expand...

Are they willing to take a huge bath on every XB1 sold though?
I really doubt it, that's crazy money.
 
J

JayKay1337

Banned
They already did.
It´s really a marathon and not a sprint , let´s see how E3 2014 turns out
Halo & TitanFall are big IPs that will boost the XBONE , the future will tell it´s the same procedure as every gen

XBONE sales are not bad , they will also outsell the WiiU soon
 
rob305

rob305

Member
Seanspeed said:
They are competing for marketshare, but if the market is big enough, they dont need to 'win' to consider the project a success.
Click to expand...

This. They have their targets. As long as they are on track with their sales projections is no way its considered a failure. That Sony is selling more consoles than Microsoft is good for Sony. We don't know how much profit Sony and Microsoft are making with each console (adding percentual R&D, Marketing costs etc), so raw sales numbers don't mean too much either.
 
M

mangochutney

Member
Bgamer90 said:
You (and others) are speaking as if things have only been Sony and MS. Again, MS lost to Nintendo last gen in terms of sales.

They can stil gain marketshare this gen while still being behind Sony... Especially if the number of consoles sold overall for this gen are lower than last gen.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter if it is just Sony and Microsoft or Sony, Microsoft and 100 others, the point is still valid. Of course there are others, but it doesn't change the fact that Microsoft has lost share and that as a business you must try to maintain or improve your share. That is the key point that was being made.

As you say, this can change. Market share is not set in stone. Nor was this ever suggested - but right now, they're doing poorly by virtue of the fact they are losing share.
 
T

ThatGuy707

Member
kadotsu said:
As long as Bing still exists no one should worry about the XBOX brand. The only "bad" thing that'll happen is less 3rd party timed exclusives because MS won't be willing to pay the higher difference in opportunity cost to their partners.
Click to expand...

Bing is a lot more important to MS than Xbox. It also has a much larger upside if it ever becomes profitable.
 
S

SwiftDeath

Member
Hoo-doo said:
Are they willing to take a huge bath on every XB1 sold though?
I really doubt it, that's crazy money.
Click to expand...

Yep assume a $100 loss on 10 million unit sales at least before a die revision or other cost savings and you're talking about a billion dollars of unforeseen expenditure by a division that is not likely wanting such exorbinant costs associated with it. A kinectless SKU is going to look far far more appealing to MS themselves unless there really is some magical reason for keeping it in the box that I'm not seeing.
 
T

TrueMenace

Unconfirmed Member
They are going to have a price drop at E3. Most likely abandon their attachment to Kinect. Probably price the console at $399. As a result, no one will be buying the Kinect too so that's just wasted tech. Lol. Glad I got a PS4.
 
B

Bsigg12

Member
TrueMenace said:
They are going to have a price drop at E3. Most likely abandon their attachment to Kinect. Probably price the console at $399. As a result, no one will be buying the Kinect too so that's just wasted tech. Lol. Glad I got a PS4.
Click to expand...

I expect a $399 with Kinect. I really don't expect them to drop kinect.
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
mangochutney said:
It doesn't matter if it is just Sony and Microsoft or Sony, Microsoft and 100 others, the point is still valid. Of course there are others, but it doesn't change the fact that Microsoft has lost share and that as a business you must try to maintain or improve your share. That is the key point that was being made.

As you say, this can change. Market share is not set in stone. Nor was this ever suggested - but right now, they're doing poorly by virtue of the fact they are losing share.
Click to expand...

How many consoles have been sold in total so far this gen (PS4 + Xbox One + Wii U)? About 15 million?

Xbox One is definitely going to surpass the Wii U. Overall, I simply think that talking about "losing marketshare" not even halfway into the first year of the console's life is a bit silly. Should the system have already overtaken the Wii U in total sales by now?

I'm just trying to understand what position would have been considered "good" for the Xbox One 3 months into its life...
 
Philthy

Philthy

Member
Microsoft is already reacting, they have been since E3 took the wind from their sails. You will probably see more exclusives, it's the only way they can get more people on their team at this point. Microsoft doesn't dump this much money into something and walk away, they double down. More exclusives, price cuts, free Live, less Kinect. It all needs to be done.

Will it work?
 
T

ThatGuy707

Member
KratosEnergyDrink said:
Sony is almost bankrupt, so it could be that MS is doing nothing and waiting. It is not unlikely that Sonys gaming division will be sold (much like the PC division lately) in the next two years.

Will be interesting to see who will buy it. Could be Nintendo or Microsoft or Apple or Google or Amazon.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt that will happen. Anyways, MS would not be allowed to buy it. They would pretty much have a monopoly. Also if MS actually thought Apple/Google were going to buy it that would make their situation even more dire and increase the need for urgency.
 
S

Sean*O

Member
Soon what with the new CEO and pressure from shareholders. If the long term outlook is bleak there is not point in throwing more money at it. This isn't a company like Nintendo where gaming is their core business.
 
Sorc3r3r

Sorc3r3r

Member
I still think that MS execs knew perfectly that the box they were setting up would have sold less, maybe a lot less than the 360.
When you are going with an online only console, drms, not used software, very USA centric, if a bit of sanity is still in your brain you know you are going to lose marketshare.

The whole box was built to be very effective on sqeezing every cent from its userbase and very effective to sell advertisement.

This is at least my guess.

They revised their plans, but are they really worried by this early trend?
If they'll get the stream of money they were forecasting i do not think they will do anything major.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
ThatGuy707 said:
I seriously doubt that will happen. Anyways, MS would not be allowed to buy it. They would pretty much have a monopoly. Also if MS actually thought Apple/Google were going to buy it that would make their situation even more dire and increase the need for urgency.
Click to expand...

Yeah if Sony does have to sell the gaming division that would be really bad for MS. No way do they want apple coming in and replacing Sony.
 
G

Guevara

Member
I think they will quietly decide not to spend on R&D for the next Xbox, ride out this gen trying to maximize profit, and someday announce that the "Xbox program" is now a store front on Windows, Phones and tablets.
 
C

Camwi

Member
Hopefully they don't leave the console market. They accomplished so much with the 360, plus competition is usually good for consumers.
 
G

genjiZERO

Member
I actually kinda think MS already lost. They might be able to get some traction back in the Anglo-sphere with strategic price cuts, but it's going to be extremely difficult everywhere else. Even if they made the XBONE the same price as PS4 it's still a weaker console. I'm not sure how they'll be able to overcome that.

I'm sure I'm in a minority, but I do hope they exit the market. I have never though that it's competition for the machine that makes gaming better for gamers. It's competition amongst developers themselves. Competition for the machine means that developers end up having to make generic, multi-platform, AAA games to stay afloat.
 
M

Mooreberg

Member
I don't expect any significant changes before E3. They'll have a 90 day window to see what Titanfall does for them. If that doesn't help, they will have to drop the price. There isn't anything else coming out on the system for the rest of the year that will be nearly as hyped up. Not anything exclusive, anyway.
 
G

grosvenor_92

Member
Goldenroad said:
I think all of these companies realize that this "console race" is a marathon not a sprint. Give it two or three years and if one is substantially behind or ahead you'll see some change in business strategy, but we are still in the early adopter phase and will be for the next 12 months for sure.
Click to expand...

Yup I don't Microsoft is gonna make any sudden changes until a couple of years have passed and more people have moved over to the new consoles
 
R

Raide

Member
genjiZERO said:
I actually kinda think MS already lost. They might be able to get some traction back in the Anglo-sphere with strategic price cuts, but it's going to be extremely difficult everywhere else. Even if they made the XBONE the same price as PS4 it's still a weaker console. I'm not sure how they'll be able to overcome that.
Click to expand...

Games?
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
genjiZERO said:
I actually kinda think MS already lost. They might be able to get some traction back in the Anglo-sphere with strategic price cuts, but it's going to be extremely difficult everywhere else. Even if they made the XBONE the same price as PS4 it's still a weaker console. I'm not sure how they'll be able to overcome that.
Click to expand...

How did sony sell PS2"s, since that was far weaker comparatively then its competition. Specs are the least important part, they need great exclusive experiences, price parity, and to sell people on all the extra features that the XB1 has. No idea if they will be able to do all that, but getting them priced the same would help a lot.
 
F

famousmortimer

Banned
Looking at Microsoft's launch strategy I don't think "winning" was part of it. They certainly didn't price the machine or launch in enough territories to have any realistic shot of being ahead currently.


They don't need to be the best selling console to make money. The vita makes money and has the install base of 2 ouyas duct taped together. I will concede that each month that Microsoft loses in the US is damaging PR, but that won't sink them. Microsoft as an entitiy makes its money off of software and services, not hardware. I think they are approaching the Xbox One in the same way. They will make their money with XBLG, fitness stuff, subscription based TV stuff, their own television content, etc. And halo, of course. It's a very different route to financial success than the PS4 which is "we need to sell a fuckload of games."
 
B

Beerman462

Member
Guevara said:
I think they will quietly decide not to spend on R&D for the next Xbox, ride out this gen trying to maximize profit, and someday announce that the "Xbox program" is now a store front on Windows, Phones and tablets.
Click to expand...

This is the way I feel. I don't see the current MS losing any more money in the console business. They will complete the games they have in the works. They probably won't pay for full exclusivity after Titanfall. They will continue to make 1st party games, but they will play it safe with their Halos and newly acquired Gears.

yankeehater said:
How did sony sell PS2"s, since that was far weaker comparatively then its competition. Specs are the least important part, they need great exclusive experiences, price parity, and to sell people on all the extra features that the XB1 has. No idea if they will be able to do all that, but getting them priced the same would help a lot.
Click to expand...

We need a sticky that explains why the "but PS2" argument is flawed when talking about price/performance in relationship to the current gen. PS2 had an 18 month lead. It had a bigger mind share carried over from the PS1. It played DVDs straight out of the box at a time when that was a big deal...
 
L

Logash

Member
After their next earning report. That way they can see how Titanfall's release effects the market and they'll work from there. Anything before that would be jumping the gun.
 
D

Deadstar

Member
Beerman462 said:
This is the way I feel. I don't see the current MS losing any more money in the console business. They will complete the games they have in the works. They probably won't pay for full exclusivity after Titanfall. They will continue to make 1st party games, but they will play it safe with their Halos and newly acquired Gears.
Click to expand...

How much safer can you play it with the last Halo? Let's face it, Halo is not what it used to be and I was a HUGE Halo fan. I don't want to be playing the same franchise for 6+ games. It just gets stale no matter what you do to it. I don't want more Gears either. It was the perfect game for its time and I was a huge fan as well but I want new ips.
 
T

Terra

Member
I don´t think that anyone can count out the Xbone just yet. There is always the opportunity for MS to money-hat for exclusives, and it´s all about being number one on the ball.

I enjoy watching this all unfold, from the outlook of my PC (and backlog of old consoles).

No one has still made the move to make a REALLY interesting game totally 1 console exclusive. I mean...the day Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Borderlands or Metal Gear gets exclusive. That´s when things start to happen.
 
S

system11

Member
RayMaker said:
Yeah, we're not even 6 months in and its ''done and dusted'' lol
Click to expand...

I think it is pretty much all over and done with. PS4 has reached self sustaining momentum, people are buying PS4s because other people want them, because their friends have them, because the game comparisons favour them, because people are talking about the PS4.
 
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